FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[Art]

21 minutes ago, arftech said:

Louis Riddick

 

I guarantee you didn't trust him when he worked here as a scout.

[Larry]

3 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

 

Gonna go out on a limb and say Haskins gets the start in Week 6 and retains the starting job from there.  Might even muster up a late playoff push...if the O-Line stays healthy.

 

I'm not gonna be ticked if that happens  (Now, if they put him in, and he's not ready, then I'll be ticked.)  

[Spaceman Spiff]

5 minutes ago, Art said:

 

Except this is untrue.

 

Haskins is, actually, arguably the No. 1 prospect.   Kyler Murray is not a slam dunk prospect.  Murray is a 6.25 ranking on NFL.com.   Haskins is a 6.20.   There's not much separating them.   All of Murray's negatives are Haskins positives.   All of Haskins negatives are Murray's positives.   But there are a lot of people who had Haskins as the No. 1 QB on their board early, middle, late and LAST NIGHT in the draft process.   It is laughable to suggest there was a clear No. 1.   There wasn't.   If the Cards pick a different coach, there's every chance Haskins goes before Murray.

It is fair to say the reasonable thing that NO QB in this draft enters the league as an "elite" draft prospect based on grade.   No one is ANY WHERE CLOSE to RGIII for example as an NFL draft prospect by grade.   I do not love Haskins.    I do prefer a smart pocket QB who makes quick decisions to a guy who lives on athleticism.   In that, Haskins is THE best QB in this draft, by significant margin.   And that happens to be PRECISELY what Gruden wants in a QB.   Haskins is a bigger, stronger, more accurate, better-armed Kirk Cousins, who fit beautifully in Gruden's scheme.   Think Andy Dalton under Gruden.   Haskins is the prototype for what Jay Gruden desires in a QB in terms of what he brings to the table.

Time will tell if he has the mental element of the game to process quickly enough to be any good, but the kid played better against top competition than any other player in college football a year ago.   He played on a very good team.   He thinks he's the best player at his position in the draft.   NOT being upset about being taken after two guys you think you're better than and ONE EVERYONE ELSE agrees you are would be a troubling thing.   Any spin that his reaction to "falling" to No. 15 is in ANY way negative makes the person suggesting that the owner of imbecilic thoughts.

 

 

Dropping science like Galileo dropped the orange!!!!

[Command The 414]

59 minutes ago, ThomasRoane said:

 

The Giants, Denver, Bengals, and the Miami Dolphins turned him down. 

 

Let that sink in...

 

Of the teams you mentioned the only team that surprises me by not taking him is the Bengals.... say what you want but the Giants for whatever reason viewed D.Jones higher... Denver feels Flacco is their man for a few season (but don’t be surprised if they don’t nab Drew Lock today in the 2nd)..... and the Fins are tanking and in 2020 will nab their future QB... imho it wasn’t or isn’t a knack on Haskins...those teams just went in a different direction and I don’t think we need to look into that as they didn’t value Haskins highly

[justice98]

1 hour ago, KillBill26 said:

I don't see it that way.  Just like Rodgers and Mahomes, they sat their first year, not because they didn't win the QB competition for the starting job, but because the organization stated it was part of the plan to have them sit a year.  Unfortunately, that means the Redskins would need to have a functional long term plan, and I'm not holding my breath.  

 

I just believe a QB that raw, with so many other holes on offense, shouldn't even be considered to start in 2019.  We will have another draft to add some lineman and wr / te.  Then prepare him to start week 1 in 2020.  

 

The Rodgers/Mahomes analogy doesnt work because they had established winning QBs in front of them.  You can have a plan to let them sit the whole year (or more) because they werent gonna beat out the incumbent no matter what.  I feel like we're more the Browns than we are those Packers or Chiefs.  If he's better than the guy in front of him, let him play. 

 

I subscribe to the approach of, as long as he's not getting his brains beat in, let him play if he's good enough.  Provided Keenum doesnt have them 7-1 at the halfway point or something crazy.  Game reps and experience will only help him for when they fill all the holes that are left.  

 

But I dont think Haskins is that raw.  He's inexperienced, but he knows how to play the position.  In terms of actual game reps, he's no less experienced than Kyler Murray or Mitch Trubisky were in recent years.  Nor is he a mess in terms of mechanics or anything like that.  

[Heathen]

3 minutes ago, ashlynskins said:

 

Of the teams you mentioned the only team that surprises me by not taking him is the Bengals.... say what you want but the Giants for whatever reason viewed D.Jones higher... Denver feels Flacco is their man for a few season (but don’t be surprised if they don’t nab Drew Lock today in the 2nd.... and the Fins are tanking and in 2020 will nab their future QB... imho it wasn’t or isn’t a knack on Haskins...those teams just went in a different direction and I don’t think we need to look into that as they didn’t value Haskins highly

I'm a Duke fan/alumnus, and while I really like DJ, I am very glad we didn't take him. He's not better than Haskins, and we finally have a QB with a great toolset from the pocket, won't rely on athleticism (thank god we don't have to go back to wincing every time he scrambles), and can HOPEFULLY stop us from our trend of 3 and outs we are so in love with for the past few years.

[arftech]

Just now, Art said:

 

I guarantee you didn't trust him when he worked here as a scout.

When he was here the dysfunction was at critical mass.  Louis is one of the more knowledgeable football guys.

[Veretax]

55 minutes ago, @SkinsGoldPants said:

 

which analysts do you trust?

 

Not important, what is important, was the ones I were listening too were also considering two things:

1. The apparent Win No posture seemingly coming out of Ashburn
2. Jays need to win this year period
3. That drafting a QB who might lack in experience may not be a great idea for THIS year.

But as Cooley says, Haskins if given some time could be even greater down the road.  THat's why I actually like the pick.  I just have a distrust of the Front Office/Coaching staff not pulling the rug out from under this guy like happened to Jason Campbell.

 

 

10 minutes ago, ashlynskins said:

 

... say what you want but the Giants for whatever reason viewed D.Jones higher.

Yeah the NY Media is already loving on the Daniel Jones Pick:  SEE NY Post:  (Enjoy laughing)
NY Post: Giants Daniel Jones pick is a disaster on so many levels

[Art]

4 minutes ago, arftech said:

When he was here the dysfunction was at critical mass.  Louis is one of the more knowledgeable football guys.

 

Amusing.   Riddick was here with Gibbs during our most stable stretch as it was Gibbs who promoted him from regular scout.

 

And, NO, he was not one of our more knowledgeable football guys.   He's GREAT on TV though.   Legit great.   So I get you like him, but, no, he's not close to good enough to be working in the NFL.   That's why he's on TV.   He's also great on TV not really getting anything right.   Kiper nails stuff.   Riddick can totally blow a call, like when he thought Philly traded up for a CB and they went OL, and do it with style.   He's good on TV, even when he couldn't name a single player he thought they'd go with and had to say, "Yeah," when others threw names in.   I don't really get how he can be that good when he rarely adds value, but he is.   I give him that.

[justice98]

1 hour ago, ThomasRoane said:

 

The Giants, Denver, Bengals, and the Miami Dolphins turned him down. 

 

Let that sink in...

 

I wouldnt put much stock into what 4 teams that either stink and/or have track records of failing at QB decisions do in terms of player personnel.

[Tsailand]

2 hours ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said:

To me the only home run QB in this draft was Kyler Murray, the kid is superstar

Definitely not. Murray is too dumb to play QB in the NFL.  Trading up to draft him would have been horrible.  So glad we didn't go for that clown show.

 

I didn't like any of the QBs this year.  Furthermore, taking QB in 2019 was a strategic mistake, when we have very little around him on the offense.  We should have taken a couple O-linemen and a WR.

 

Oh, and we'll be firing Jay after this season.  So Haskins' first year will be with a lame duck head coach who didn't want him, and his next few years will be with a head coach who didn't pick him, but was brought in to coach him up.

 

Haskins is not being put in a position to succeed.

[Heathen]

1 minute ago, Tsailand said:

Haskins is not being put in a position to succeed.

Unless he sits for a while. Which I'm ok with. We've tried the "plug and play" approach to QB for too long. Let's actually develop someone who could potentially be a franchise QB...just happy if we try ANYTHING different

[DC9]

1 hour ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said:

Does this mean Joe has given the blessing for the number ? I see Joe T not being the kind of the guy who would say no.

 

If memory serves, he wasn't consulted on the Danny Warfel wearing of number 7.  He wasn't happy.

 

That he proactively did this was attention dollars for, Joe.  But also I think he deserves it.

[justice98]

1 minute ago, Heathen said:

Unless he sits for a while. Which I'm ok with. We've tried the "plug and play" approach to QB for too long. Let's actually develop someone who could potentially be a franchise QB...just happy if we try ANYTHING different

 

So you prefer developing on the sideline vs developing on the field?

[Heathen]

Just now, justice98 said:

 

So you prefer developing on the sideline vs developing on the field?

Yup! We've seen it work with plenty of good QBs, and again- anything different than what we've done I'm up for. 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

yeah, I know Theismann won us our first Super Bowl and was a very good QB for us...but he has always rubbed me the wrong way. 

 

I could see him granting permission to Haskins to wear #7 for no other reason but to re-enter relevance for a news cycle. He did the same thing when Smith's leg disintegrated last year...he reveled in the comparisons. 

 

It's not a huge knock on the guy, but he LOVES attention so I anticipate that he will always act in a way that garners as much of that as possible. 

[Tsailand]

5 minutes ago, Heathen said:

Unless he sits for a while

That's not going to happen.  Dan (who made this pick) is going to push to start him day one. 

[Command The 414]

7 minutes ago, Tsailand said:

Oh, and we'll be firing Jay after this season.  So Haskins' first year will be with a lame duck head coach who didn't want him, and his next few years will be with a head coach who didn't pick him, but was brought in to coach him up.

 

Haskins is not being put in a position to succeed.

 

I hate comparing the success of players and teams cause each situation is different, I will say this though that 1 can argue that Haskins coming out of college is better then Tribusky & Goff and both of these players were with different HC their first season....Tribusky with Fox and actually took over for Glennon and Goff with Fisher and he too played and then flourished under a new HC their 2nd season.... so it doesn’t always equal gloom & doom for situations as mentioned above

[Art]

6 minutes ago, Tsailand said:

That's not going to happen.  Dan (who made this pick) is going to push to start him day one. 

 

Nope.

 

Dan didn't make the pick.

 

Dan does like the pick as he should.   Black kid in a black town with local ties who knows his kid who falls inside the team's desire for big-time programs for big-time picks.

 

Unless Haskins is CLEARLY before ALL of our eyes the best player in the preseason he will not open the season as the starter.   And he might not then in any case.   It's likely he'll start quickly if the team sucks early certainly.    But there's very little chance he opens as No. 1.   He CAN take No. 1 given he's more talented than Case or Colt though but if he does that we'll all see it and know it's because he's clearly better.   This you can save and bring back later.   If he is outplayed by Case or Colt he won't be our starter Week 1.   

[Stadium-Armory]

There will always be question marks about drafted players, especially QBs. Look at Rodgers, Brady, Russell Wilson. Hell, even Drew Brees was too short. What makes me feel good about it, is that we got value. We didn't spend future draft capital and we got a good guy at a resonable draft position. Short of a "sure thing", that is all you can hope for.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

3 minutes ago, Art said:

 

Nope.

 

Dan didn't make the pick.

 

Dan does like the pick.

 

Unless Haskins is CLEARLY before ALL of our eyes the best player in the preseason he will not open the season as the starter.   And he might not then in any case.   It's likely he'll start quickly if the team sucks early certainly.    But there's very little chance he opens as No. 1.   He CAN take No. 1 given he's more talented than Case or Colt though but if he does that we'll all see it and know it's because he's clearly better.   This you can save and bring back later.   If he is outplayed by Case or Colt he won't be our starter Week 1.   

 

We do have the luxury of having a couple "caretaker" types (even though that's only the case because of Smith's unfortunate injury). 

 

If somehow the formula with Keenum is working and we win, then we can ride it. If, more than likely, it's not and we are floundering, you can insert Haskins any time without a lot of pressure to win right away.

 

I envision something like Jason Campbell's 2006 season (even though that was his second year). I would even see Haskins getting the call earlier in the year, but not before we've lost a handful of games. 

[@DCGoldPants]

20 minutes ago, Veretax said:

 

Not important, what is important, was the ones I were listening too were also considering two things:

1. The apparent Win No posture seemingly coming out of Ashburn
2. Jays need to win this year period
3. That drafting a QB who might lack in experience may not be a great idea for THIS year.

But as Cooley says, Haskins if given some time could be even greater down the road.  THat's why I actually like the pick.  I just have a distrust of the Front Office/Coaching staff not pulling the rug out from under this guy like happened to Jason Campbell.

 

 

Yeah the NY Media is already loving on the Daniel Jones Pick:  SEE NY Post:  (Enjoy laughing)
NY Post: Giants Daniel Jones pick is a disaster on so many levels

 

It's very important. I wanted to read the breakdown of the guys you trust on Haskins. I wasn't a pro or con guy for him. Really, I wanted to move back and get a starting OL. So, I'm trying to read as much from different points of view as possible. 

[justice98]

37 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

Dude's got 1 year of college experience.  (And it wasn't in the SEC, even.)  

 

Assume he'll get lots of attention during preseason.  But we all know that backup QBs don't get much attention once the season starts.  

 

I'll be just fine if he doesn't take a regular season snap this year.  (If he comes off the bench, then I will react according to how he does.)  

 

You know who else has 1 year of college experience?  Kyler Murray.  And that was in the garbage defense of the Big 12.  This supposed lack of experience only seems to be a problem for Haskins for some reason.  Haskins even took more snaps in college than Kyler Murray did.  More than Cam Newton, slightly less than Carson Wentz, more than Trubisky.  Guys in the first round with similar college experience. I dont think the 1 year is a problem.  Or it wont be a reason why he succeeds it fails. 

10 minutes ago, Tsailand said:

That's not going to happen.  Dan (who made this pick) is going to push to start him day one. 

 

If he can actually play, he shouldnt sit.  

[TD_washingtonredskins]

23 minutes ago, Veretax said:

1. The apparent Win No posture seemingly coming out of Ashburn

 

This might be the most appropriate typo in ES history....

[Art]

4 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

We do have the luxury of having a couple "caretaker" types (even though that's only the case because of Smith's unfortunate injury). 

 

If somehow the formula with Keenum is working and we win, then we can ride it. If, more than likely, it's not and we are floundering, you can insert Haskins any time without a lot of pressure to win right away.

 

I envision something like Jason Campbell's 2006 season (even though that was his second year). I would even see Haskins getting the call earlier in the year, but not before we've lost a handful of games. 

 

Yeah.   This is right, thoughtful and not totally beholden to abjectly fictional leaks that there was any abnormal dissension within the team regarding draft path.   Reasonable people within the Redskins organization felt we could get better trading for Rosen and using our picks differently.    Maybe on Sweat.   Reasonable people felt Haskins wasn't a slam dunk and we could get better maybe moving down and stockpiling.   Reasonable people felt Haskins was too good a value at the most important position of need on any team that has UTTERLY NO POSSIBLE FUTURE and to take him when he fell.

No one is going to rush him out on Week 1 unless he's breathtakingly ahead of all competitors and EVEN THEN he will start on the bench, and we'll watch Keenam spike himself three times before we shout loud enough to get him out there.    But people want to believe Snyder loves him SOOOOOOOOO UTTERLLLLLY MUUUUUUCH he DID NOT TRADE UP FOR HIM but WILL START HIM AT ALL COSTS, all because someone with ZERO contacts within the organization fictionally predicted and reported it.   People be dumb.