FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[Art]

1 minute ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

I've seen Haskins compared to Dan Marino. I haven't seen Dan Marino play in years so I'll have to re-watch some film. I can tell you one thing though, he plays more like Marino than Alex Smith. 

 

Marino, Bledsoe are apt I think.   Stationary, good arms.   Marino had a better release.   Bledsoe a better arm.   Peyton Manning from a mobility standpoint, but better arm.   It's all about how good Haskins is mentally to know if he'll overcome the physical athletic differences frankly.   Manning and Brady and Brees are so quick making decisions and the ball comes out.   If that's Haskins, it won't matter if he plays like Big Ben.   If that's not Haskins, well, there's always the Clemson kid in 2 years :).

[Morrison J]

1 minute ago, Art said:

 

es, Haskins has more in common with how Ben plays than he does with Smith in that they both are generally stationary players who play almost exclusively from the pocket and have good arms to attack more areas of the field with regularity than Smith has.   Smith's game is much more movement oriented.   Ben has that magic Haskins almost certainly won't have as no one other than Ben and Russell really have it in the NFL.  

Ok maybe we disagree on how we see Big Ben more than anything. I see Ben as a guy who's at his best when the play breaks down and he has to go onto his second/third/fourth read. A guy that has extreme poise in the pocket and the ability to evade pass rushers with considerable easy. I don't see that style of QB in Haskins at all. 

 

If we go back to my initial post I said the difference between Haskins and Smith is the athleticism. So I know Smith obviously uses his legs more. I'm talking about their mentality as QB's. Both are safety first and don't feel comfortable throwing into tight windows or 50/50 deep balls. That couldn't be further from how I'd describe Big Ben. 

5 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

I've seen Haskins compared to Dan Marino. I haven't seen Dan Marino play in years so I'll have to re-watch some film. I can tell you one thing though, he plays more like Marino than Alex Smith. 

Marino threw into tight windows and threw deep without hesitation. Not much of a comp between him and Haskins imo.

[JoeJacobyHOForRIOT]

9 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

I've seen Haskins compared to Dan Marino. I haven't seen Dan Marino play in years so I'll have to re-watch some film. I can tell you one thing though, he plays more like Marino than Alex Smith. 

 

I could only dream of seeing a Marino caliber QB play for us.

[Burgundy Yoda]

7 minutes ago, Art said:

 

Marino, Bledsoe are apt I think.   Stationary, good arms.   Marino had a better release.   Bledsoe a better arm.   Peyton Manning from a mobility standpoint, but better arm.   It's all about how good Haskins is mentally to know if he'll overcome the physical athletic differences frankly.   Manning and Brady and Brees are so quick making decisions and the ball comes out.   If that's Haskins, it won't matter if he plays like Big Ben.   If that's not Haskins, well, there's always the Clemson kid in 2 years :).

Bledsoe is a good one too, didnt think of that. It's all about his motivation and mental prep-work. He seems to understand the game very well which is encouraging. All those guys had a 'feel' for the game and understood what the defense was doing and most likely where the gaps in the defense were gonna be so they knew where the highest % read was going to be. If Haskins has that ability, he will dominate plain and simple. For someone on the slower side like Haskins, quick decision making and release time are the only things that will save you from getting killed by a D lineman. 

[Art]

7 minutes ago, Morrison J said:

Ok maybe we disagree on how we see Big Ben more than anything. I see Ben as a guy who's at his best when the play breaks down and he has to go onto his second/third/fourth read. A guy that has extreme poise in the pocket and the ability to evade pass rushers with considerable easy. I don't see that style of QB in Haskins at all. 

 

If we go back to my initial post I said the difference between Haskins and Smith is the athleticism. So I know Smith obviously uses his legs more. I'm talking about their mentality as QB's. Both are safety first and don't feel comfortable throwing into tight windows or 50/50 deep balls. That couldn't be further from how I'd describe Big Ben. 

 

I completely agree with you that Ben is at his best when a play breaks down and I will agree with you that I can NOT see Haskins having anywhere NEAR that ability on any level even proximate to Ben.    I do think Haskins will easily avoid rushers in a similar way as he's got more quicks than speed certainly.   But I think Haskins has shown the ability to read the defense and field and come to his first, second, third or fourth options BEFORE a play breaks down in college in a way that even seems to surpass what Ben does now as a pro.   I can't say that with certainty, but Ben seems to lock in to an early option, then kind of freeze, then escape and then create magic.   I don't see a **** ton of highlights were you see Ben being surgical, looking people off, coming off reads quickly and cleanly, etc.   I'm sure he DOES do that, but that's not an area I associate with his game.

 

It's CLEARLY what Haskins is best at now.   He gets the ball and QUICKLY does the right read with it.   HOW quickly in the NFL will determine his ultimate level as without Ben's improve he will not be that good if that mental acumen is a hair too slow to keep defenses at bay.   That mental aspect is what made Manning, Brady and Brees so good.   It's how the Colts had the greatest offensive line for years allowing 9 sacks a year or something, then Manning gets hurt, they have the same line, and they are the worst in football.   Manning simply read and threw the ball before he had to create magic.   THAT is where Haskins has to be to be great in this league as THAT is the type of player he is.   There aren't many Ben's.   There aren't many Mannings.   Wouldn't it be great if Haskins was, more likely, the latter, than the former :).

To be clear, it's also quite possible he is Leftwich.   Very unlikely he's Jamarcus.   How quickly he processes will determine his future.   He can throw.   Can he think quickly enough to make the right read.   Cousins is pretty good at that which is why he was good statistically.   But he had ZERO magic in him or ability to carry or make the throw that is improbable to even contemplate as possible as a Brady or someone who lives on mental quicks more than feet.

[Destino]

35 minutes ago, Morrison J said:

Yeah this is so Big Ben. Nahh 🤣🤣

 

 

That looks very much like Big Ben actually.  I think people have forgotten just how bad Big Ben was early in his career because he was on very good Steeler teams that carried him.  If Haskins puts up the following stats in his first three years the Redskins are in trouble. 

 

2004:  2621 yards - 17 TD - 11 Int

2005:  2385 yards - 17 TD - 9 Int

2006:  3513 yards - 18 TD - 23 Int

 

 

 

[Morrison J]

1 minute ago, Art said:

 

I completely agree with you that Ben is at his best when a play breaks down and I will agree with you that I can NOT see Haskins having anywhere NEAR that ability on any level even proximate to Ben.    I do think Haskins will easily avoid rushers in a similar way as he's got more quicks than speed certainly.  

Haskins does not have the athleticism or poise on tape to evade defenders though. 

 

2 minutes ago, Art said:

 

But I think Haskins has shown the ability to read the defense and field and come to his first, second, third or fourth options BEFORE a play breaks down in college in a way that even seems to surpass what Ben does now as a pro.   I can't say that with certainty, but Ben seems to lock in to an early option, then kind of freeze, then escape and then create magic.   I don't see a **** ton of highlights were you see Ben being surgical, looking people off, coming off reads quickly and cleanly, etc.   I'm sure he DOES do that, but that's not an area I associate with his game.

Agree with that. Alex Smith does the same thing pretty well! Both high IQ players as I mentioned before as a similarity between the two. They read the field really well, just hesitate to pull the trigger. 

 

4 minutes ago, Art said:

 

It's CLEARLY what Haskins is best at now.   He gets the ball and QUICKLY does the right read with it.   

Sounds much more like Smith than Ben to me again tbh. Quick short throws, get him in a rhythm and he's looking good. 

 

 

 

Any clearer why I think there's much more Smith to him than there is Big Ben yet? 

[Burgundy Yoda]

1 minute ago, Destino said:

That looks very much like Big Ben actually.  I think people have forgotten just how bad Big Ben was early in his career because he was on very good Steeler teams that carried him.  If Haskins puts up the following stats in his first three years the Redskins are in trouble. 

 

2004:  2621 yards - 17 TD - 11 Int

2005:  2385 yards - 17 TD - 9 Int

2006:  3513 yards - 18 TD - 23 Int

 

 

 

Yeah, Early Big Ben was on great teams and their primary focus was running the football. He wasnt asked to do much other than not **** up and get in the way. 

[Reaper Skins]

No complaints from me so far.  All the moves make sense and we're a stronger team today.

 

I'm just happy Snyder wised up and finally put a qualified football mind in charge.

 

His son is a huge upgrade over Bruce Allen 

[JoeJacobyHOForRIOT]

3 minutes ago, Destino said:

That looks very much like Big Ben actually.  I think people have forgotten just how bad Big Ben was early in his career because he was on very good Steeler teams that carried him.  If Haskins puts up the following stats in his first three years the Redskins are in trouble. 

 

2004:  2621 yards - 17 TD - 11 Int

2005:  2385 yards - 17 TD - 9 Int

2006:  3513 yards - 18 TD - 23 Int

 

 

 

This is actually a pretty interesting point and quite scary tbh. Would we even have the patience (we being the front office and coaches and i guess the fans) to be patient through season like those. 2005 17-9 Ratio is pretty good though, by Redskins standards at least. 

[Captain Wiggles]

Ben Roethlisbergers wonderlic score? 25.

 

Dwayne Haskins wonderlic score? 25

 

🤪

[JoeJacobyHOForRIOT]

Just now, clietas said:

Ben Roethlisbergers wonderlic score? 25.

 

Dwayne Haskins wonderlic score? 25

 

🤪

Whatever happened to the wonderlic score, is that still a thing ? I was pretty tired last night so forgive me if i missed it but i didn't hear it mentioned once. That use to be a really hot topic when it came to QB's.

[FS#21]

I don't understand why 7,9, 28,44 and 81 haven't been offically retired to avoid these akward situations with incoming players. I guess you could include 21 in that list too.

[Commander -JB-]

Joe Theismann better tell this young man that #7 is available.

[Llevron]

5 minutes ago, FS#21 said:

I don't understand why 7,9, 28,44 and 81 haven't been offically retired to avoid these akward situations with incoming players. I guess you could include 21 in that list too.

 

No one does. The Redskins so this with their numbers for some stupid reason im sure. If I had to guess its somehow related to money. 

[Art]

6 minutes ago, Morrison J said:

Haskins does not have the athleticism or poise on tape to evade defenders though. 

 

Agree with that. Alex Smith does the same thing pretty well! Both high IQ players as I mentioned before as a similarity between the two. They read the field really well, just hesitate to pull the trigger. 

 

Sounds much more like Smith than Ben to me again tbh. Quick short throws, get him in a rhythm and he's looking good. 

 

 

 

Any clearer why I think there's much more Smith to him than there is Big Ben yet? 

 

Smith does not progress at all well man.   Even in KC two years ago when he was the game's best deep ball thrower, his game was deep to dump.   He is NOT good at reading the field.   He's GOOD at seeing his primary is covered and knowing where his safe is.   He's good at understanding pressure and finding his hot/safe.   Haskins showed almost none of that at Ohio State.   Haskins actually read progressions.   Again, here are two plays that illustrate that amazingly well he spoke about.   Confirm you watch this:

 

 

 

I'm sure every QB can talk about that.   But there are things here that are excellent.   He didn't take the easy, first, right throw on that second play.   Why?   Because he knew the down and distance.   They didn't tell him.  He told the analyst.   He REMEMBERED that play.   You know how you see Lebron and other greats and McVay tick off EVERYTHING that happened from a sequence or a game a year ago?   That was impressive.   He knew that play.   He KNEW why he did that.   The first play where he knew he was going backside to one of two guys he did exactly as coached.   That second play where he threw into the second window instead of the first?   That's a play where Ben thinks the play is covered and pulls out after the first window is closed, then does something wonderful off it.   Haskins just low key did wonderful.

Haskins appears to read across progression, NOT from first to safe.   Yes, he had dumps.   MOST of Ben's throws are dumps.   But the progression is obvious.   He reads through multiple options.   There's a video that has an eval of the triangle concept against Nebraska which was a simple, easy throw, but not a safe.   And it is only open if he makes that read.   That is what is encouraging about him mentally.   His physical limitations are enormous.   But his progression game seems NOTHING like Smith's.   Smith is read primary then dump.

Cousins is read primary then dump.   That's why Gruden never connected deeply with him.   He wanted Cousins to progress and let a play live a bit longer.   Haskins will let a play live a bit longer and read through and across in a way Smith still doesn't and way didn't at Utah.   I think this is our greatest hope for him.   In an NFL where athletes who are also smart are the kings, he has to be the smartest of the rest to be any good.   It is obvious more likely than not he'll not be that good.   Maybe Smith good if anything.   Middle of the road.   And that'd be an exceptionally good pick really.   But his game has no similarity to Smith or Cousins beyond he is a pocket passer.   So is Ben.

[JoeJacobyHOForRIOT]

5 minutes ago, -JB- said:

Joe Theismann better tell this young man that #7 is available.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

12 minutes ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said:

This is actually a pretty interesting point and quite scary tbh. Would we even have the patience (we being the front office and coaches and i guess the fans) to be patient through season like those. 2005 17-9 Ratio is pretty good though, by Redskins standards at least. 

 

We were patient through 3.5 years of Jason Campbell starts between 2006 and 2009 before pulling the plug, so my guess is yes. Keep in mind too, that "patience" demonstrated by the Steelers came as the team went 34-14 over those 3 years, won one Super Bowl, and made it to another AFC Championship Game. Something tells me we'd allow a QB to keep playing after 3 seasons like that. 

[Burgundy Yoda]

If he becomes a Dan Marino type player I'm all for a name change.

 

The Washington Haskins. 

[Larry]

3 minutes ago, Art said:

But there are things here that are excellent.   He didn't take the easy, first, right throw on that second play.   Why?   Because he knew the down and distance.

 

I noticed that myself.  They showed him a play from last year, and he knew what the down and distance was on the play.  He knew that on 2nd and 17, the safety is going to play soft, and therefore he rejected the first read, that looked open.  

 

To me, that was my most positive takeaway from that video.  

 

I've got no clue if that's NFL-level football smarts.  But it was sure impressive to me.  

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Max' reaction when they mentioned Haskins is lol-worthy...

 

 

[JoeJacobyHOForRIOT]

4 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

Max' reaction when they mentioned Haskins is lol-worthy...

 

 

Thats funny but real talk here. As much as i hate the Giants they have 3 Super Bowl wins since 91 including 2 in the past 2 decades , we have 1 including 0 , Yes ZERO in the past 20+ years. We can all laugh at the Giants pick at QB but they consistently build winners ie playoff teams while we consistently build losers. Funny how i was calling you a negative nelly in another thread and here i am playing Mr doom & gloom. But the truth is the truth and I simply call em like i see em. If i was a gambling man and you asked me to wager on which front office & or owner would build a better team for the next decade I'd pick the Giants. Pains me to say it, but yeah. I'm a not a huge Daniel Jones fan but the Giants see something and they have proven of the years to be right, we have not.

[Morrison J]

27 minutes ago, Art said:

Again, here are two plays that illustrate that amazingly well he spoke about.   Confirm you watch this:

 

I'm sure every QB can talk about that.   But there are things here that are excellent.   He didn't take the easy, first, right throw on that second play.   Why?   Because he knew the down and distance.   They didn't tell him.  He told the analyst.   He REMEMBERED that play.   You know how you see Lebron and other greats and McVay tick off EVERYTHING that happened from a sequence or a game a year ago?   That was impressive.   He knew that play.   He KNEW why he did that.   The first play where he knew he was going backside to one of two guys he did exactly as coached.   That second play where he threw into the second window instead of the first?   That's a play where Ben thinks the play is covered and pulls out after the first window is closed, then does something wonderful off it.   Haskins just low key did wonderful.

Haskins appears to read across progression, NOT from first to safe.   Yes, he had dumps.   MOST of Ben's throws are dumps.   But the progression is obvious.   He reads through multiple options.   There's a video that has an eval of the triangle concept against Nebraska which was a simple, easy throw, but not a safe.   And it is only open if he makes that read.   That is what is encouraging about him mentally.   His physical limitations are enormous.   But his progression game seems NOTHING like Smith's.   Smith is read primary then dump.

I've watched pretty much all his interviews including that one. He comes across as a high IQ guy in general. What he does pre-snap is even at a much higher level than 95% of prospects coming out too and how he goes through his progressions is very impressive. I do think when he drops deeper and faces longer developing plays the results can be a bit dicey but I'm probably nit-picking a bit there. Think we can all agree he's at his best in the quick game when he's passing in rhythm. Keep the pocket clean and the passes quick and he's golden. That to me is more Smith than Ben, thats all I'm saying. 

[Llevron]

He is so mad lol. 

 

Its going to be fun comparing the giants rookie to ours over the years. 

[Captain Wiggles]

36 minutes ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said:

Whatever happened to the wonderlic score, is that still a thing ? I was pretty tired last night so forgive me if i missed it but i didn't hear it mentioned once. That use to be a really hot topic when it came to QB's.

 

It is. Not sure most teams take much stock in it. Not sure they ever did honestly. 

 

http://flurrysports.org/2019-nfl-draft-quarterback-wonderlic-scores/