The day it all went south: November 5, 2000

[Jquest]

When the franchise truly went south was in April 1997 when Jack Kent Cooke passed  and subsequently when the league stole the franchise from his son John when the trust Cooke left it in prevented the signing of their own free agents primarily Trent Greene and then hiking up the price of the franchise which was the catalyst to drive franchise prices league wide.  Not only that the league rejected Snyder's initial bid before finally accepting it.

 

1997/98 was the nail in the coffin!

[88Comrade2000]

1 hour ago, Jquest said:

When the franchise truly went south was in April 1997 when Jack Kent Cooke passed  and subsequently when the league stole the franchise from his son John when the trust Cooke left it in prevented the signing of their own free agents primarily Trent Greene and then hiking up the price of the franchise which was the catalyst to drive franchise prices league wide.  Not only that the league rejected Snyder's initial bid before finally accepting it.

 

1997/98 was the nail in the coffin!

Snyder wasn't the majority owner in that bid. One of the Millstein's was. 

[FrFan]

17 hours ago, Rdskns2000 said:

You are wrong. The day it went all South, was when Dan took over ownership of the team.

Agreed, I remember the video that was posted. Snyder was interviewed outside, he was frantically jumping on the sidewalk like a spoiled child who finally got his hands on the most coveted toy.

[Darrell Green Fan]

At this point in time the only pleasure i get from this team is to look back at the disaster, this thread is awesome. The Rolle pick 6 has to be on my top 10 worst plays ever.  

[RandyHolt]

You want the truth? You can't handle the truth!!!

 

IMO THE day it went south, is when Cooke gave the Mayor a pat on the butt. 

 

When it's painful to get to the games, it requires an VERY entertaining product to keep fans in the seats. Many teams go decades without winning, yet can maintain sales and keep the seats filled. Yes even with a cheap meddling owner, and incompetent GMs.  Say what you want, but Dan is not cheap. So it's not that. Raljon is very difficult to get in and out of, and not a single Redskins fan has ever said otherwise. So while the empty stadium has something to do with a poor on the field product, it's next level fail when fans stop showing up.  The stadium location is the deal breaker that stops us from now even accepting free tickets.  THAT is where we are, now.

 

So, on a September afternoon in 1991, Cooke hugged Kelly -- and patted her on the rear end. That is the mayor's version. "I didn't think it would be anything other than an innocent hug. So he did. And then he patted me on the rear, and I pushed him away," the mayor says. "I pushed him away and made it clear I did not appreciate it. I gave him a look. I can give somebody a look that will let them know you are in the Book of the Dead . . . It was an indignity."

 

The staffs of both Kelly and Wilson were buzzing over the incident, but nobody talked publicly while sensitive negotiations were still underway. Several of Kelly's friends said she was angry at herself for not telling off Cooke. But it wasn't until 10 months later that Kelly spoke publicly about it, after the deal went sour and after The Washington Post mentioned the incident in a story. She watched Cooke and Virginia Gov. Douglas Wilder, a friend of hers, yukking it up on TV and scoffing at her in announcing the new stadium deal in Alexandria. "I decided if they were going to let me have it, I would let them have it," she says. Kelly then called WRC-TV's Susan Kidd and offered her an exclusive "sister to sister" account of the pat on the rear. The mayor also called a rally at RFK to denounce Cooke as a "billionaire bully" trying to force her to abandon her demands for minority hiring and other favorable terms.

 

But there are two other versions of the incident: "I patted her on the back, not the butt," says Cooke. "I patted her back, between the shoulder blades, where you would normally. There was no withering look. It is a story she has made up."

 

[JoeJacobyHOForRIOT]

19 hours ago, Rdskns2000 said:

You are wrong. The day it went all South, was when Dan took over ownership of the team.

OP wrote all that and it didn't even mention SNYDER ?! But the title is the day it all went south ???

 

 

 

 

[Jquest]

7 hours ago, Rdskns2000 said:

Snyder wasn't the majority owner in that bid. One of the Millstein's was. 

 

Absolutely he was, considering Snyder was the face of the MiIlstein-Snyder group. Millstein who ended up withdrawing his bid is with Snyder submitting a separate bid on his own  which is why I mentioned his bid was 1st rejected before being accepted. I just didn't want a long post outlining the entire Millstein-Snyder story concerning the bidding when in the end Millstein has no connection to the franchise other than his initial bid, and the fact that he then tried to sue Casserly and John Cooke for alleged collusion in blocking his bid with the league owners.

 

Thanks for mentioning that.

[hail2skins]

3 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

Say what you want, but Dan is not cheap. So it's not that. Raljon is very difficult to get in and out of, and not a single Redskins fan has ever said otherwise. So while the empty stadium has something to do with a poor on the field product, it's next level fail when fans stop showing up.  The stadium location is the deal breaker that stops us from now even accepting free tickets.  THAT is where we are, now.

This Redskins fan has been to approximately 150 games at Raljon and does not consider the place difficult to get in and out of.  My routine has been to pick my mother (who lives out of town) up at Union Station around 10 am, have a meal in the city, get to the game and parked around by noon, leave the game when it ends, drop her off at New Carrollton, and be back home in Woodbridge by 6 pm. I can count the number of times I've had hassles getting out of FedEx in 22 years on one hand and still have fingers left over.

 

My biggest level of stress with FedEx is once you get there, navigating through the parking lot with all the chairs, cornhole games, etc to try and get a space. If they are charging $50 for parking, it shouldn't be an ordeal, and this is something the Redskins can probably do something about. I also disagree than Dan is not cheap. How long did we wait before we got a decent jumbotron at the stadium (which not coincidentally happened after the Zorn fiasco)? As well as the reported substandard facilities at Redskins Park until Shanahan demanded better?  IMO, Snyder also lessened the attractiveness of the lower bowl seats at the stadium when he installed the dream seats.

 

That said, I agree that a stadium in the city, with relatively close Metro access, would be better. I think at this point Snyder must want to do something to improve the feelings Skins fans have toward him, and a nice stadium is part of that.  Two new stadiums are opening in the West next season, and I'm looking at the Vegas one in particular as a model than Dan can look at. It will only seat in the low 60K range, which is perfect.  I'd prefer it be an open air stadium (Vegas is going to have a clear roof), but can understand that the stadium will be anticipated to hold more events other than football, which might drive the push for a roof. The only question is when.  I think Dan probably has his heart set on the RFK site from the nostalgic viewpoint. We've recently learned that the demolition of RFK is slated for 2021, which would put the opening of a new stadium there in 2024 at the earliest and 2025 as more realistic. 

 

 

[kleese]

When it comes to looking back at the past 25 years, the drum I've always banged is that I think too many people forget the PRE-Snyder misery of 1993-1998. That's six full seasons before any of us even knew who Snyder was. Now, I don't say any of this to absolve Snyder-- he's had 20 years-- clearly if he knew what he was doing, he would have figured it out by now. There is absolutely no other way to categorize his ownership as anything other than a complete and utter failure. 

 

However, in terms of ruining the "rich history" of the Redskins, I gotta say, I think there is some revisionist stuff in there. First of all, from the mid 1940's through the very end of the 1960's the Redskins were one of the worst franchises in the NFL. And the had an owner that was a fairly open racist/bigot even for the time. Things started to change in 1969, when Vince Lombardi came on board and (probably not coincidentally) George Preston Marshall passed away. The Redskins then went on a 20-ish year run of great times for the fans. The 70's were good/enjoyable and then the 80's/very early 90's were magnificent. Of course we all know what happened after. 

 

But the reality is that for the last 75 years of Redskins football, well over 50 of them have been lousy and marked by poor/embarrassing ownership. We had on glorious stretch. And if you are of a certain age (somewhere in the neighborhood of fans that are currently 40-55 years old) you "grew up" with the Redskins as a model organization. If you are older than that you experienced both ends of the misery. If you are younger, you've only seen the latest era of dysfunction. 

 

But I just can't forget 1993-1998 and the terrible mistakes were made that helped us down this path. Those years (especially 1995-1998) remain my most painful memories as a Redskin fan. This is due in part to the fact that I was not yet EXPECTING misery and still had real hope of winning big. Now, I am content with a 9-7 season where we kinda, sorta compete. But those amazing ways we found to lose games in those mid 90's seasons were just devastating at the time. 

 

Beyond the losses, Jack Kent Cooke made some pretty bad choices in his final years. Obviously, the way he left the team in his will remains curious and crippled us in the late 90's and ultimately led to an "outsider" being able to purchase the team. He was also a MAJOR champion for both Charley Casserly and Norv Turner-- a truly disastrous duo. And he was also the man behind the move to Raljon/Landover and leaving DC. They built a stadium that trended exactly the opposite of how stadiums would be built (city center, aesthetically pleasing, convenient) in the coming years. You can blame Snyder for a lot of things, but the location of the stadium, the design of the stadium, the amenities in the area around the stadium... none of that is on him. 

 

Please understand again, that in no way should this be taken as a "defense" of Snyder. He's really, really bad at this. But he didn't get us here completely by himself. 

[hail2skins]

59 minutes ago, kleese said:

Please understand again, that in no way should this be taken as a "defense" of Snyder. He's really, really bad at this. But he didn't get us here completely by himself. 

Sorry Ed, but what percentage of blame for the team not being able to have an 11+ win season or host a divisional round game over the past 20 seasons should be ascribed to the 1993-98 team/organization, in your mind?  I'm just curious.

 

As for the Redskins pre-1970s performance on and off the field, I doubt there are many people on here who even remember Redskins games in the 70s, let alone the 1960s.  So with all due respect, not many people on here are going to care about ancient history.

 

As for the stadium, again, I agree it could be in a better location. But at the time, despite complaints about traffic and from people in the upper bowl being pushed higher into the stratosphere, it was largely seen as a welcome upgrade to RFK. And I still consider those traffic complaints highly overblown.  I was watching the Vegas Golden Knights game last night and the announcers were talking about how good the in-game presentation is.  I went to the VGK-Caps game out there last season and agree. Not the cheesy skating Knight pre-game, but the constant participation of the drum line at one end of the arena keeping the energy going.  You know what team had some cool participation from the band during the first years of their new stadium?  Yep, the Redskins.  Then Snyder comes in and decides that its too low energy, that he has to go the Gary Glitter route. Even the goofy Funky Four was a bit funny, but he had to monetize that routine and ruin it. Can he try something tangible to encourage the fans back? Maybe lower parking? Do what the Falcons and Ravens have done and substantially lower concession prices? Instead, we have season ticket holders getting a dollar off a bag of peanuts. Big deal. 

 

 

[kleese]

3 hours ago, hail2skins said:

Sorry Ed, but what percentage of blame for the team not being able to have an 11+ win season or host a divisional round game over the past 20 seasons should be ascribed to the 1993-98 team/organization, in your mind?  I'm just curious.

 

As for the Redskins pre-1970s performance on and off the field, I doubt there are many people on here who even remember Redskins games in the 70s, let alone the 1960s.  So with all due respect, not many people on here are going to care about ancient history.

 

As for the stadium, again, I agree it could be in a better location. But at the time, despite complaints about traffic and from people in the upper bowl being pushed higher into the stratosphere, it was largely seen as a welcome upgrade to RFK. And I still consider those traffic complaints highly overblown.  I was watching the Vegas Golden Knights game last night and the announcers were talking about how good the in-game presentation is.  I went to the VGK-Caps game out there last season and agree. Not the cheesy skating Knight pre-game, but the constant participation of the drum line at one end of the arena keeping the energy going.  You know what team had some cool participation from the band during the first years of their new stadium?  Yep, the Redskins.  Then Snyder comes in and decides that its too low energy, that he has to go the Gary Glitter route. Even the goofy Funky Four was a bit funny, but he had to monetize that routine and ruin it. Can he try something tangible to encourage the fans back? Maybe lower parking? Do what the Falcons and Ravens have done and substantially lower concession prices? Instead, we have season ticket holders getting a dollar off a bag of peanuts. Big deal. 

 

 

 

I would ascribe probably 90-95% of our current state directly to Snyder, leaving a 5-10% gap for the stadium design/location itself and some bad luck such as your best player in 25 years being murdered in the middle of a season, the Mara cap penalty, various major injuries, etc. 

 

My point in going so far back was to illustrate the history of the organization really isn’t THAT strong. And to be perfectly honest, the only sustained glory we’ve had was during the Beathard/Gibbs pocket where JKC struck gold. Credit to JKC for not getting in the way and screwing that up. But he was also fortunate to be around when he was— he probably wouldn’t last a year in the NFL now with his various shenanigans, comments, etc. 

 

And specifically I think it’s inpoetsnt to note that when Snyder took over in 1999, things were NOT going well AT ALL. He wasn’t tasked with not messing us up— he was tasked with fixing us. Obviously, he has failed miserably at that task. 

[SkinsFTW]

11 minutes ago, kleese said:

He wasn’t tasked with not messing us up— he was tasked with fixing us. Obviously, he has failed miserably at that task. 

 

When NORV can get the only Snyder team to a game from the conference championship, basically a play from being a game from the SB, that would have multiple first rounders the following season, why would anyone think it needed fixed?

 

It just needed to be denorv'd.

 

Dan fixed it though

[kleese]

1 hour ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

When NORV can get the only Snyder team to a game from the conference championship, basically a play from being a game from the SB, that would have multiple first rounders the following season, why would anyone think it needed fixed?

 

It just needed to be denorv'd.

 

Dan fixed it though

 

From 1993-1998 we went:

 

4-12

3-13

6-10

9-7

8-7-1

6-10 

 

That last one (1998) started off 0-7. That was Norv’s fifth season and we never made the playoffs and then regressed from being just average. Total failure at that juncture. The only reason Norv didn’t get fired was because the ownership deal was held up for so long. 

 

Then 1999 comes around and we get some good luck. That team wasn’t all that great, but the division/conference was super weak that year—- TWO 8-8 teams made the playoffs in the NFC and we went 10-6 while managing not to be a team over .500 all season long (until last game of year when both us and Dolphins rested everyone). We beat a terrible Lions team in the playoffs; we wound up in Tampa sort of just by skating along and finally not blowing games to teams we should beat. It was clearly Norv’s finest hour. But of course we DID manage to blow that game in pretty memorable/heartbreaking fashion. No doubt I’d take a repeat of a “lucky” 1999 season one thousand times over right now... but that season was probably more of the sun shining on a dogs rear more so than anything truly substantial. 

 

Snyder took over a situation that wasn’t very good— AT BEST in flux and struggling. He then proceeded to make it worse and has never been able to figure out how to fix it. 

[Dissident2]

I'd agree that a lot of the ROOTS of the current problem start with JKC. The stadium he built sucks, he didn't take care of the team to ensure it would stay in his family, he left the franchise VULNERABLE to the virus that is Dan Snyder. Snyder is the main problem, obviously, but if JKC had handled his business the way he should have, Snyder would've never had a chance to take this team and utterly destroy it from top to bottom in this slow way it's happened over two decades. 

 

Hiring Norv was clearly a mistake in hindsight, too. The guy was a bad head coach, not a good leader, an offensive mind who should've stayed in that role. He was clearly being thought of as the next Gibbs by Cooke, and Cooke was very patient with him, but I think he should've been given the boot after the 1996 season when I think they started off something like 7-1 and then collapsed and missed the playoffs. That said, our team wasn't a laughing stock back then. Norv and Casserly had taken the wreckage left after the Gibbs years and started turning it into an average team again. Once Snyder got his tiny little hooks into the team, though, it started being run like his telemarketing firms. We were struggling before he arrived, for sure, but I think we would've found our way out of that period with strong leadership at the top. Instead, he basically took over the team and began running it in a way that made success far less possible amidst the environment of chaos, backstabbing and disloyalty that he built. 

 

But yeah, JKC really set the collapse in motion through some of his incredibly stupid moves toward the end of his time here.

 

 

[BoycottEuphemisticFans]

On 10/2/2019 at 12:28 PM, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

I was discussing the best offenses and defenses of the Snyder era with a pal. I made the argument that the 2000 defense was extremely good, but that has been forgotten in the lore of that season. But what also has been forgotten is how close that season was to working.

 

Come back with me to November 5, 2000. You will find me in - of all places - a Damons in Manassas. I was working in Manassas then and had gone in on Sunday morning to catch up on work before the game.

 

Anyway. Here's the skinny.  That Redskins team had started out 6-2. It had the annual home loss on Monday Night Football the week before to an excellent Titans team. That game was a total **** show which in retrospect set the template for all Snyder Era Monday Night **** shows. Derrick Mason had a 69 yard punt return. Samari Rolle had an 81 yard pick six as time expired in the first half. Brad Johnson was picked three times total. You could very easily mark this as the day it all came crumbling down - and never really got repaired - if you wanted to.

 

But I choose not to.

 

Bad losses happen in a season. Even to good teams. The Patriots have a string of bizarre September losses over the past 20 years. Every good team has a "how the hell did we lose that game?" game.

 

What they don't have is two of those in a row.

 

The next week, Jeff George is filling in for an injured Brad Johnson (Johnson was not formerly benched until Norv was fired) against a truly abysmal Cardinals' team. This is a road game on a short week, but this is a team that finished 3-13 with the 30th ranked defense and the 24th ranked offense. This is a game that you dominate and go into the bye week at 7-3 with a monster match-up with the Rams coming up.

 

That did not happen.

 

For those of who you forget, this is the Aeneas Williams Game.

 

The Redskins have a dominating opening drive and Stephen Davis is about to fall into the end zone when a linebacker strips him. The ball rolls literally 5 yards into the zone and Aeneas Williams picks it up and sets a record with a 104 yard fumble return.

 

The Skins lose the game 16-15.

 

The Redskins had 431 total yards. The Cardinals had 178. The Redskins had the ball for close to 40 minutes.  On the other side of the coin, the Redskins missed an extra point and two field goals. The kickoff team gave up a 78 yard return.

 

These were not two losses in a row. These were two inexplicable losses in a row. The second one was to a terrible team that played terribly. It was at this point, I think, that the belief that the Skins will always screw things up really came into being. After the bye, the actually beat the Greatest Show on Turf Rams. But that would literally be the last highlight for the team until Joe Gibbs showed up in 2004 (seemingly).

 

Here's what happens if the team wins that game. They go into the bye at 7-3. They beat the Rams to go to 8-3 and are at that point, the team to beat in the NFC. The next week, they have the Eagles for what is essentially a game to decide the division. Maybe the result of that game is different.  (That's the Eddie Murray game for those you keeping track).

 

They win that game, and they probably end up with a bye in the playoffs and basically take the place of the Giants, who went to the Super Bowl and got gutted by the Ravens. But the Skins had already beaten Baltimore that year and were far better equipped to deal with that defense than the Giants were.

 

I won't project a Super Bowl win, but I'm pretty comfortable in thinking that winning the Cardinals game puts the NFC title game in grasp.  It almost guarantees that the team is controlling the wild card race, The Giants were inexplicably successful this year though I simply refuse to call them a "good team."

 

Certainly, Norv doesn't get fired, Johnson is not run out of town, Coach "Robinsky" never happens, and Dan doesn't get the reputation that he is STILL living down. If anything, he looks like a genius for signing all these stars and completely changes how the NFL does business going forward. Marty certainly doesn't come in with the intent purpose of gutting the team. If anything, they spend more going into 2001 as Snyder has proven that his ideas can work.

 

Instead, this pretty good team lost two games it had no business losing in back to back weeks. Snyder throws a late season temper tantrum. The team loses 2 of its last 3 and finishes 8-8.

 

This begat Marty which begat Spurrier which begat Gibbs which begat Zorn. None of that happens if they win one game in November against a 3-13 team.

 

Goodbye, dum dums. 

 

 

 

 

 

this is an excellent synopsis.  i remember many of those moments.  The unreal Samari Rolle INT return 81 yards on the final play of the 1st half.  The unreal 100+ yard fumble recovery and TD by Aeneas Williams.  These never-again-in-this-lifetime plays changed the outcome those games, that season, and the story of the redskins to this day, for sure.  A couple of responses to other comments/thoughts/corrections

 

1.  Correction - as someone else mentioned, I'm pretty sure the Eddie Murray game was actually against the NY Giants not the Eagles.  And Norv Turner was fired in/near the lockerroom after that game.

2.  The kicker for that season was supposed to be Brett Conway, a decent kicker who got injured before the season started and Norv Turner alledgely  tried to replace but mgmt wanted to wait it out (a refrain that continues to this day).  Washington would have won several games that year had they replaced the kick appropriately.

3.  Norv Turner gets a bad rap in washington.   He wasnt a good coach.  He also was NOT a terrible coach as many people say.  He was average.  He took over the WORST SITUATION in the NFL at the time in 1994.  A '93 squad that went 4-12 PLUS the NFL was instituting this new thing called a salary cap.  The Redskins were considered the worst situation in football at the time.  They had an old roster.  They had an expensive roster.  They had ZERO young talent (their top picks in 91, 92, and 93 were Bobby Wilson an oft-injured bust, Desmond Howard, a gigantic bust, and Tom Carter, another bust.)   Turner's biggest error was choosing Heath Shuler, who couldnt play.  His team, however, was supposed to be God-awful in 1994 and it was.  Turner actually IMPROVED by 3 games each of his next two seasons.  he literally BUILT FROM GROUND ZERO up to a nfl-caliber team again.  3-13, 6-10, 9-7.  I actually thought he DID THE JOB in his first 3 seasons considering the reclamation project he took over.  It was after that where things got dicey for him.  He needed to win in 1997.  His team was average, much like Norv himself, 8-7-1  and then the bottom fell out in 1998.  He could have been fired there and I would have understood it.  But due to the sale of the team he got an extra year which he might not have deserved HOWEVER, he FINALLY was given a legit QB and NOT COINCIDENTALLY his offense FINALLY took off...one of the better offenses that year in 1999.  they win a playoff game and were close to going to the NFC title game and then the disaster of Snyder took hold in 2000.   Turner remains the only head coach during Snyder's tenure with a winning record.  And not coincidentally it's the only coach Snyder didnt choose.  

4.  Some people place to much emphasis on that interim SHORT PERIOD OF TIME after one of the GREATEST HEAD COACHES EVER stepped down and Snyder getting the team 93-98 as some sort of major folly from the skins.  No it wasnt.  Every mini dynasty eventually ends and you are going to get the same period of time.  This was EXPECTED considering all of the factors against them.  Greatest coach retires, their hall of fame GM left a few years prior, the NFL instituted a salary cap, the skins were one of the oldest rosters with expensive players in the league: 93-98 HAD to HAPPEN.  and they worked THROUGH IT.  They fell apart right after GIbbs.  New coach.  They get better by 3 full games each year.  they had a mediocre but not bad season in 97.  98 was the real bad one where they played without ownership.  and then 99 it was back to winning.

 

that samari rolle INT is here.  Along with a note about Frank Wycheck who was orignally drafted by Washington and showed promise but was cut by Norv Turner after he failed a drug test- he could have been the TE Turner needed to make a huge difference.  wycheck went on to a great career obviously with tenn

 

 

[Birdlives]

It’s a nice story but if that didn’t happen something else would have. 

 

Snyder doesn’t have a clue how to manage and run an organization.

 

He never has, he’s never bothered to learn, and he’s never going to.

 

He makes the same mistakes over again and still doesn’t understand the consequences of his actions.

 

He lacks innovation or humility, and has no interest in learning either.

 

What’s the worst is he’s decided to insulate himself from reality at this point so there’s no hope.

 

 

[DCSaints_fan]

This is some good stuff.  Maybe you can turn it into an alternate history novel.   Perhaps call it "The Dan in the High Box Suite"

[hail2skins]

As the interwebs say:

 

Norv: It sucks that I'm the most hated guy in DC sports because I can't lead the Redskins back to winning ways.

Dan Snyder: Hold my beer.

 

Lets also not forget that Dan "spare no expense" Snyder couldn't close the deal to bring Bobby Beathard back to DC in 2002. Not to say that it would've worked out anyway, but of course Plan B turned out to be Vinny's return. 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

We haven't even played a game in October of 2019 yet and we are already reminiscing about non-playoff seasons of yester-year. 

 

It is an interesting season to discuss because we were at the crossroads and so much of Snyder's fingerprints could have changed depending on that season. For one, the FA splashes that he made actually all worked quite well. He added 3 defensive players and we instantly improved from bottom-5 to top-5 in defense. He added a backup QB who won us the biggest game of the season. Secondly, if a few things go differently (fewer fluke plays and making a couple kicks), that's likely a 12-4 type team.

 

In that alternate reality, I think Turner sticks around and the coaching carousel either never starts under Snyder or is drastically delayed. 

[Unbias]

 

 

[Commander PK]

For me, in hindsight now, the day Dan bought the team is the day it all went South.  I think he was too young and inexperienced to have been approved to buy the Redskins.  The owners made a mistake in approving the purchase.  I look back at what could have been mainly with Marty Shottenheimer, for me that was Dan's first massive mistake that set the tone for the next decade and beyond.  You had a guy that goes 8-3 in his last 11 games, and then you fire him for an unproven college coach who clearly had no idea the kind of commitment it takes to coach an NFL team. 

 

I have nothing against Dan personally, I've never met him...my issue is he has taken something I used to love and made it a miserable experience because he refuses to change.  Change can always happen and things can always improve, but the best leaders know what their limitations are and hire the right people for the right positions.  I believe Dan's biggest problem is that he has never really listened to those that know professional Football.  Yes, the Redskins have made him, a rich man when he bought the team, even richer, but those days are coming to an end if something doesn't happen soon.