#REDSKINS Post Game Comments - Gruden, Keenum, Haskins

[Burgold]

2 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

For all the crap he gets, the reality is we arwnt getting him what he needs to run his offense at its potential.  The one time we came close we made the playoffs, now that QB and two 1000 yard receivers are gone.

Maybe this is true, but I've felt that Jay also does not maximize the talent he does have. Part of that is a failure to adjust his system to the unique strengths of the players he has. Part of it is his inability to do ingame adjustments or get the players to rise to the occasion.  The other part of it is an inexplable choice of defensive coordinators. I mean who downgrades from Jim Haslett? Joe Barry was a hell of a weird choice on paper and wound up being worse in reality. I can believe he couldn't get elite prospects when Joe was forced out because other DCs saw the writing on the wall and didn't want to sign on to a sinking ship, but his choice of DC and ST coaches sure didn't help his cause.

 

When Gruden had Garcon, Jackson, Reed, and a potent offense his crap defenses blew it. When Gruden had Garcon, Jackson, Reed, Cousins, and a darn fine O-line, he still couldn't score in the red zone.

 

So yeah, Jay was a bit hamstrung by having Bruce as his GM, but he also underachieved.

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I don't necessarily think he maximizes his talent either, like the best offensive coaches do.  Like an Andy Reid, for example.

 

Our running game has never really looked right under Jay.  And it really feels like we have to labor to create easy throws and get the passing game in rhythm.  We were better with Kirk at QB, but not exceptional.

 

Jay is also part of the decision making process on personnel.

 

It kind of feels like the same situation as with the Wizards, where we've got a B coach and a bunch of B personnel when we need some guys who are A level staff/personnel to get up there and compete with the contenders.  That's kind of the natural result of picking in the middle of drafts every year.

 

That's tough because I agree hes not an A coach with A talent and his approach seems hardheaded sometimes or his team doesnt look ready to play. But, when its clicking its clicking, we've seen that.  Sometimes I feel like hes here because hes willing to put up with the BS, not because hes expected to make the most of it. 

 

Hes commented on his role in personal decisions before in a subtle "dont bite the hand that feeds you" kinda way, but you can tell the frustration enough that I cant cosign with saying he has enough say to hold him equally responsible.  I dont believe for two seconds he was asked how Alex Smith would fit in his offense and I dont believe it's his idea to draft players with injury histories to try to get bargains, that's Allen all day.

[Renegade7]

11 minutes ago, Burgold said:

 

So yeah, Jay was a bit hamstrung by having Bruce as his GM, but he also underachieved.

 

Theres no way to defend his DC choices, so I'm not going to try.

 

  I feel like when he got here we knew he was a first time head coach and there would be a learning curve, but what is this year 5-6 now?  This is the time to say hes either going to get it or hes not, but this could arguable be the worst, most inexperienced personal grouping on offense hes had since that playoff run, that talent level never recovered. 

 

His seasons have decimated by injuries over and over again, I feel like if I start with zero confidence in the oline I wont be disappointed.  Now were debating in which career backup QB to start over a rookie who isnt ready to start in the NFL because hes played only one year of college?

 

Can we say he had Cousins so he finally had a QB and did nothing with it?  Cousins is Cousins after all.

[Voice_of_Reason]

3 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Agree about the running game. It could just be me, but it's never seemed like our running game has ever really had an identity. It's sort of a frankenstein of various zone and power schemes, all called way too predictably or at the wrong time and with the wrong personnel. But that could have more to do with the talent that's available as well. IIRC Callahan has a decent amount of input in the run game as well. Not sure what the deal is, but it's frustrating. 

The issue is Callahan puts together the run game, Jay/KO put together the pass scheme and Jay calls plays, not a game.  

 

Im hoping KO’s promotion to OC will lead to more complimentary schemes.

@Renegade7There’s enough talent on offense to her by and be middle of the pack.  IF the scheme fits the players and the game calling is not predictable. 

 

If you try and force a scheme, then you’re right.

 

The jackass up the road changed his entire offensive philosophy when Flacco went out.  Gruden has to adapt the scheme to his players.

 

 

[paloosa]

Keenum did the best he could with the garbage Oline that had no starters. Haskins looked good at times with good arm strength but needs a lot of work to get his accuracy in tune. The NFL is different than College but he will be the real deal. I like Haskins arm and think he can be a starter for a long time. Kenum when he has time will be a good placeholder. The thing that is the big unknown is Colt McCoy. Is he completely healthy or what?

[JSSkinz]

If Colt is healthy there's no way Keenum beats him out, I thought Keenum looked like typical Keenum, couldn't hit a short or intermediate pass, he had the one deep dime on the PI call which was nice.  The blown coverage was just lucky.

 

If Colt gets in there he's going to hit those short and intermediate routes and the offense will move.

 

The more I rewatch Haskins the more I liked what I saw, I don't really care about the 2 picks.  Those 2 plays where he eluded the pass rush, rolled out and hit WR's with accurate passes (one dropped in the endzone), that's something we haven't seen in Washington forever. 

 

That big arm and accuracy mixed with the pocket presence I watched last night is exciting when thinking of how he will look when he actually knows what he's doing.

 

He seems to have tremendous upside.

[NoCalMike]

Something that struck me when comparing Haskins performance with other rookies/young QBs, is that it seemed like Gruden just threw Haskins in there without a specific game plan or set of plays to build a rythym. It was just sort of....ok, it's your turn, go!

 

You saw Cleveland come out and run a 2 min offense on their first drive to get Mayfield comfortable. Watching the Giants and Cards....compared to the headlines about how sharp their rookie QBs looked....well yeah look at the plays they were running. 

 

Ive always felt Gruden was a good X's and O's guy but he fails at most other aspects of the HC job. I'm not expecting a fine tuned looking team Week 1 of the preseason but it just looked blah and uninspired.

[Wildbunny]

13 hours ago, NewCliche21 said:

I know he's not Gibbs, but I really like Jay.  If you just gave me pictures of his faces after games, I wouldn't be able to tell if it's after preseason game one or a playoff game.  He's never satisfied.  I like that.

Well he only had one playoff gave, so that should be easy to bet

[Burgold]

6 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

Something that struck me when comparing Haskins performance with other rookies/young QBs, is that it seemed like Gruden just threw Haskins in there without a specific game plan or set of plays to build a rythym. It was just sort of....ok, it's your turn, go!

 

You saw Cleveland come out and run a 2 min offense on their first drive to get Mayfield comfortable. Watching the Giants and Cards....compared to the headlines about how sharp their rookie QBs looked....well yeah look at the plays they were running. 

 

Ive always felt Gruden was a good X's and O's guy but he fails at most other aspects of the HC job. I'm not expecting a fine tuned looking team Week 1 of the preseason but it just looked blah and uninspired.

I think this points to a specific weakness of Jay. Jay doesn't tailor his game plans to his players. Even last year, when we were on our 5th string QB, the gameplan was pretty much pass first, pass often, and let's ignore the running game. Jay's insanely wed to his system. Worse, he doesn't seem to grow the system. Players who had been with him seven years ago in Cinci say, it's all familiar.

 

Haskins should have a gameplan geared towards his strengths. The team should have a plan to make him feel successful and comfortable. It just isn't in Jay's nature. Every square peg must be jammed into one round hole. He doesn't make half time adjustments and he doesn't adjust season to season.

[Wyvern]

With all respect, Burgold, I think Gruden was first trying more to see how players fit in his scheme and what they were capable of doing in the stock playbook, rather than trying to adapt his playbook to win a preseason game.  He's trying to see how people can or cannot fit in on his stock plays, under game conditions. 

 

Some of the players on the bubble who don't fit in well, will likely be gone.  For folks like Haskins (who's a lock to make the roster) Gruden would develop an understanding what plays would be better executed by Haskins, and which ones would be more lower percentage.  Preseason (especially the first two games) is more about learning about scheme fit, capabilities, and team-fit, than the meaningless W-L record.  He needs to see what Haskins is capable, so when the time comes he can call plays better suited to what Haskins has learned he can do.

[NewCliche21]

2 hours ago, Burgold said:

I think this points to a specific weakness of Jay. Jay doesn't tailor his game plans to his players. Even last year, when we were on our 5th string QB, the gameplan was pretty much pass first, pass often, and let's ignore the running game. Jay's insanely wed to his system. Worse, he doesn't seem to grow the system. Players who had been with him seven years ago in Cinci say, it's all familiar.

 

Haskins should have a gameplan geared towards his strengths. The team should have a plan to make him feel successful and comfortable. It just isn't in Jay's nature. Every square peg must be jammed into one round hole. He doesn't make half time adjustments and he doesn't adjust season to season.

 

I don't know if I could agree less.  He made a whole system that turned Kirk Cousins into a monster in 2015 once he was given reins to do so.

I think he treated Haskins like a second- or third-stringer because right now he's a second- or third-stringer.  You don't gameplan for those.

[Burgold]

I disagree with your disagreement. The system he designed for RGIII looks like the system he designed Cousins looks like the system he designed for Colt looks like the system he designed for Alex Smith looks like the system he designed for Josh Johnson. In addition, he needs a speed guy and tries to turn a slow footed position receiver like Josh Doctson into Desean Jackson. Why is Doctson running so many fly patterns and go routes? 

 

Jay is a system guy. I don't see him adapting that system for the players. Heck, despite the evidence, he still wouldn't even let Adrian Peterson run from his preferred formation. Peterson had to fit into the square hole, too.

[Vanguard]

On 8/9/2019 at 3:19 PM, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Sure.  If what I wrote in this thread triggered you, you're in for a long year.

 

And if what ai predict becomes true, you’re in for a longer one.

[desertbeagle85]

On 8/9/2019 at 2:05 PM, Vanguard said:

 

I think he was really disappointed, you could see him on the sidelines acting the same way.

 

I will make a sig bet with you, that the offense this year will be better than last year.  I guarantee it.

 

We didn’t see Jordan Reed

No Scherff or Moses

QB still getting familiar with the playbook

No McLaurin (very telling of his potential)

No Guice ( who has looked better than Peterson according to Casserly)

No Adrian Peterson

 

I get to pick what your sig says. Deal?

 

I've already said this in another thread. The Peterson hype train will die off if Guice is a 100%. The guy slipped to the Skins in the 2nd round for stupid reasons. He was projected by most to be right behind Barkley. We drafted him to be the bellcow. Peterson wouldn't have ever even got a chance without Guice going down. I fully expect Guice to take over the RB position.

[Voice_of_Reason]

8 hours ago, Burgold said:

I disagree with your disagreement. The system he designed for RGIII looks like the system he designed Cousins looks like the system he designed for Colt looks like the system he designed for Alex Smith looks like the system he designed for Josh Johnson. In addition, he needs a speed guy and tries to turn a slow footed position receiver like Josh Doctson into Desean Jackson. Why is Doctson running so many fly patterns and go routes? 

 

Jay is a system guy. I don't see him adapting that system for the players. Heck, despite the evidence, he still wouldn't even let Adrian Peterson run from his preferred formation. Peterson had to fit into the square hole, too.

The best compliment ever given to a coach by a coach was Bum Phillips of Don Shula: ""He can take his'n and beat your'n and take your'n and beat his'n."

 

I don't know what made me think of that...

[Burgold]

9 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

The best compliment ever given to a coach by a coach was Bum Phillips of Don Shula: ""He can take his'n and beat your'n and take your'n and beat his'n."

 

I don't know what made me think of that...

I agree. That was the amazing thing about Gibbs I. He could win with a Theismann who was a somewhat mobile, weak armed QB or with a Williams who was a statue with a huge arm. He could run with a run heavy offense or a passing attack. He could beat your all pros with his scabs.

 

I don't see that in Jay at all. I see people saying that if Jay doesn't have a perfect squad he's doomed. He doesn't seem to be able to coach around weaknesses or coach to strengths. His game plans all seem the same no matter what the strength of the defense he's playing against is. If he's playing against the leagues' worst rush defense he'll still throw the ball 45 times and rush 12. If he's playing against a team that can't pass defend to save its life and is hyper aggressive, he'll still run on every first down and never roll out or use play action.

 

I'm exaggerating, of course, but not by that much.

[Malapropismic Depository]

18 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

The best compliment ever given to a coach by a coach was Bum Phillips of Don Shula: ""He can take his'n and beat your'n and take your'n and beat his'n."

 

 

Makes me try to imagine what it would have been like if Bum became a NFL Game TV Analyst/Commentator. Probably entertaining, in ways.

[Voice_of_Reason]

6 minutes ago, Burgold said:

If he's playing against the leagues' worst rush defense he'll still throw the ball 45 times and rush 12

We’ve been the #1 rushing attempt offense on first down the last 4 years.  He will run the ball. 

1 minute ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

Makes me try to imagine what it would have been like if Bum became a NFL Game TV Analyst/Commentator. Probably entertaining, in ways.

He would have been hysterical.

[skinsmania123]

This has been discussed so many times, in so many threads, but Jay either has an inability or is too rigid when it comes to adapting a game plan to his QB's strengths.  He is not good at it.  McVay adapted game plans to Cousin's strengths NOT Gruden.    Nick Foles IMO won a championship under Doug Pederson because the coach did not try to screw him into a system that worked for Wentz, which would never work for him, but rather carved something out that would work for him.  

 

Gruden is just so predictable, almost dull, in his approach to the game.  Myself and Skin fans have wagered on what he will call and on of us is right at 95% of the time.   He really sucks at it.