!!!!0mgz!!!! Trent Williams finally showed up

[UKskins]

4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Assuming Trent knew that this was even a possibility and that he needed a second opinion. That would be something that one would hope the team doctors would make mention about.

My dad had similar recently - a rough patch of skin on his nose. Nothing specifically scary looking about it but it was a bit tender to touch and didn't feel right. He took himself to the doctor. Turned out to be pre-cancerous cells. Doctor gave him a cream and problem solved.

 

Regardless of what Trent knew or didn't know, if it doesn't feel right then he needs to act like an adult and take responsibility to go to the doctors for a second opinion. There is literally zero reason he could not do this. Why does he need to be babysat and instructed what to do at every step - he's a grown man and he needs to take some responsibility for getting himself checked out.

[KDawg]

4 minutes ago, sempre_victrix said:

As someone with unlimited funds, do they need to be told to get a second opinion from a specialist over a lump on their head?  Lumps are not common. Then man is trying to blame everyone for not getting it looked into

 

3 minutes ago, UKskins said:

My dad had similar recently - a rough patch of skin on his nose. Nothing specifically scary looking about it but it was a bit tender to touch and didn't feel right. He took himself to the doctor. Turned out to be pre-cancerous cells. Doctor gave him a cream and problem solved.

 

Regardless of what Trent knew or didn't know, if it doesn't feel right then he needs to act like an adult and take responsibility to go to the doctors for a second opinion. There is literally zero reason he could not do this. Why does he need to be babysat and instructed what to do at every step - he's a grown man and he needs to take some responsibility for getting himself checked out.

 

Sorry guys. Not buying into this. Most people would do that, sure. But the Redskins are supposed to have a world class medical staff. If they came back (keep in mind, I'm using the word if, because if there's anything we know is the full story is always formed from the next bit of news) and were not worried and didn't mention any thought of a possibility of it being cancerous, some of these guys may not go. Is there a life lesson to be learned from this? Absolutely. But your common sense is not necessarily common. I would have done the same as you guys (and your Father, UK). 

 

But not everyone operates that way.

 

It is a doctor's job, in my opinion, to go through the details of a diagnosis and explain what's on the table. 

 

Should Trent take some personal accountability for this? Yeah. I don't think that's asking too much... and maybe that's all you guys are saying? If that's the point, I agree. But if it's to throw Williams under the bus for not understanding the risks and clearing the Redskins medical team of any wrong doing (based, of course, on the info we have) I can't agree in the least.

 

And even if Trent takes some accountability, there is still a beef with the team.

 

Trent could have been traded and this wouldn't be hitting as hard. But Allen dug in and the team is mired in shadows.

[Skinsinparadise]

To me it's not that complicated.  If a doctor told me not to worry about something. Then my instinct (especially if it doesn't hurt) isn't they are wrong, let me get a 2nd opinion.  I've had medical issues here and there in my life, I've never gotten a 2nd opinion about anything.

 

It's not that I disagree with the logic from people to get a 2nd opinion. It's perfectly logical.  But I don't think everyone is just going to automatically distrust the initial opinion -- especially if whatever it is doesn't hurt. 

[sempre_victrix]

19 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Assuming Trent knew that this was even a possibility and that he needed a second opinion. That would be something that one would hope the team doctors would make mention about.

 

See my last post.

 

But this post reeks of being out of touch with the real world and digging your stance in due to an earlier point of view without reassessing the situation. The man had cancer. For a lump. That he was told was a cyst. I don't know about you guys, but I never heard about this kind of cancer. If he didn't know it was a possibility, then why would he get a second opinion? Do you guys think that maybe that's where the lack of trust goes?

 

And sure it's about money... in the sense he wants it guaranteed to step on the field again, especially with this team. Why wouldn't you? Come on guys. Stop posting with pure emotion. Think this through. 

 

Look, I’m not a heartless jerk. I’m very happy that TW got this successfully resolved and that his prognosis is good.  Honestly, any diagnosis of cancer would scare the **** out of me and I’m sure there’d be what-if moments galore. 

 

I dont know about you, but I hate going to the doctor unless I basically think I’m dying. It’s a ridiculous way to be, but every guy I know is like that. The older I get, I’m ever so slightly more willing to go over an issue.  

 

There is a report somewhere saying that he was told by the medical staff to get it looked at. 

 

Dont get me wrong, I am in no way defending Snyder or Allen.  This is about the contract.  Notice how he hates on Allen but loves on Snyder. He knows which parent will give him a cookie. 

[Alexa]

I'm so tired of Trent Williams.... and Bruce Allen. 

[Llevron]

Everyone needing to voice their opinion on this dudes cancer is a bit too far for me. 

 

Lots of yall would drink yourselves into a coma if you could but you think it fit to give medial advice lol

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, sempre_victrix said:

 

Dont get me wrong, I am in no way defending Snyder or Allen.  This is about the contract.  Notice how he hates on Allen but loves on Snyder. He knows which parent will give him a cookie. 

 

Its undoubtedly about guaranteed money... but I don't think that's the direct reason any of this is occurring. That's the symptom of the ailment. His mistrust of the FO/Medical staff is the catalyst. The money is the coping mechanism. 

[skinzplay]

22 minutes ago, UKskins said:

Trent said it had been there for 6 years. IT's a cancer that is renowned for not being symptomatic and being difficult to spot. Trent decided for SIX YEARS not to get a second opinion, and there are no guarantees that even if he had that they would have diagnosed correctly either. It has a 98% survival rate. Those aren't leaks, they are words from Trent's mouth and widely available internet sources on the medical issue.

 

So who is to blame - the team for not diagnosing a cancer that is almost impossible to diagnose until it reaches a rapid growth stage, or the grown man who sits at home for 8 months at a time, 6 times over and has a bank account in the tens of millions, who decides not to take the time or effort to get a second opinion at any point during that period.

 

I'm not saying the team staff are perfect, or even very good, but to throw all the blame at them and completely absolve Trent of any blame whatsoever is pretty blinkered and smacks of preconceived agenda.

 

Luckily, you won't have to rely on benefit of the doubt, as the team are so confident they gave appropriate medical advice that they asked the NFL to conduct and independent review into the situation.

 

Definitely see where you're coming from here. I said 'benefit of the doubt'. Never said Trent was absolved of all culpability in this. We know how athletes often view situations involving injuries. And he was mistaken to put all of his trust in those team physicians. We've seen Trent go out there on the field, for the team, when he probably should've been out of action. For me, though, it's not just the Trent situation; it's the pattern of how the medical staff has dealt with players as of late. The team has asked for an independent assessment, and they might find themselves surprised when that inquiry includes what happened to Guice and to McCoy. Patterns of behavior matter in these types of issues just like they matter in criminal cases. Despite all the wikipedia action going on for the last 12 hours or so, it doesn't matter whether Trent's condition was rare or has a high cure rate. The fact is that if it had reached his brain, it would have been a completely different dynamic. And apparently, they got it out just before it might have metastasized to his brain. So nope, I'm not letting the team off the hook here. They knew he was having this surgery and that's why he wasn't at minicamp, yet they leaked that he was out because of contract issues.

 

And the team is now leaking tidbits about Hess going to visit Trent to make it seem like Trent wasn't telling the truth. Hess was nowhere near that hospital when Trent had the tumor removed. He went after Trent had the cosmetic procedure, which was almost half a year later. Not the same thing. At all.

[Skinsinparadise]

It seems like the crux of the dispute is the Redskins doctors say they told Trent to check it out.  But according to Trent that was this year when they said so after 6 years they told him not to worry about.  It looks like the league will look into the story from both sides.

 

Who knows in the end.  But I can understand why Trent was rattled by it.  

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27977296/trent-williams-lack-reaction-cancer-scare-blame-redskins-rift

We literally caught it within weeks of metastasizing through to my brain to my skull," Williams said. "Extracting it was the only thing they could do. Doing radiology on it would have put a cap on my life. I think 15 years was the most I would have had after I started chemo. So I had to cut it out."

 

All of the emotion from this offseason rushed back to Williams when he walked into the building Tuesday and had to get a physical from a staff he no longer trusted. During his media session, Williams constantly shook his right leg as he sat on a stool in front of his locker.

 

"It was a lot of emotions. I'm not going to lie and say it wasn't," he said. "I almost lost my life. Seriously, I almost lost my life. You're 30 and coming off seven straight Pro Bowls and a doctor tells you to get your affairs in order, it's not going to sit well with you. It still doesn't. It still, even thinking about it, it's a scary thing to go through. Think how you describe to your 9-year-old, your 5-year-old that daddy might not be here. It's tough."

 

 

...But it wasn't until this offseason when Redskins doctors examined him and told him to go to a specialist.

 

"They kind of underestimated it, and it was far more advanced than they realized, and I don't think they realized how long it was there," Williams said.

From there, he flew on owner Dan Snyder's plane to Chicago for further examination. That's where he had the surgery in the winter. Williams said he needed 350 stitches and 75 staples on his head; the diameter of the incision was about that of a softball.

 

 

[Burgold]

I have both more and less sympathy for Trent after these revelations. More, because cancer is scary and there is every reason to believe he should have been getting top medical care and the Redskins' medical staff (and Williams himself) blew it. Less, because if you realize you came this close to the death, discovered how difficult it is to spot/diagnose/miss these symptoms and you have a NFL platform like Trent Williams does... then he should have become an advocate for the condition and tried to alert all those in similar situations who may not know they're at risk.

 

Sitting on it and not sharing was a pretty selfish thing to do. Bringing this into the light could have saved or at least impacted thousands of lives.

[dballer]

If this helps get Bruce out of here, it is the single greatest thing Trent has done for us, and he will go down as my favorite Redskins ever, no matter where he plays in the future. 

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Burgold said:

I hBringing this into the light could have saved or at least impacted thousands of lives.

 

And he has done that.

 

People deal with things in entirely different ways. It's really easy to judge someone from a distance. It sounds like this was taken care of fairly recently. He didn't sit on this for six years. C'mon, guys. 

 

I'm real disappointed in the general ES hivemind for this one.

 

Trent isn't blameless, but that doesn't make him any less sympathetic in this issue. This is scary, messed up and difficult.

 

 

[dballer]

2 minutes ago, Burgold said:

I have both more and less sympathy for Trent after these revelations. More, because cancer is scary and there is every reason to believe he should have been getting top medical care and the Redskins' medical staff (and Williams himself) blew it. Less, because if you realize you came this close to the death, discovered how difficult it is to spot/diagnose/miss these symptoms and you have a NFL platform like Trent Williams does... then he should have become an advocate for the condition and tried to alert all those in similar situations who may not know to address such an issue.

 

Sitting on it and not sharing was a pretty selfish thing to do. Bringing this into the light could have saved or at least impacted thousands of lives.

 

Some people wouldn't want to talk about this publicly. I can sympathize with that. This is a very private matter that everyone handles differently. 

[sempre_victrix]

Unfortunately, we don’t have every detail about this 6+ Year issue, so we’re left to speculate and take sides. None of us knows TW personally, so we’re putting ourself in his place and assuming his thought process should how we’d have thought. 

 

Didnt we we have a different medical staff 6 years ago?  If so, that’s 2 separate groups of physicians not being worried about this lump over the course of 6 years

[Skinsinparadise]

Another one

 

https://thefandc.radio.com/articles/news/trent-williams-redskins-cancer

I guess nobody took the time to see what was going on there,” Williams said. “Football was more important, and to me, it was more important too. I was told it was something minor so I didn’t really question them. But I mean the lump continued to grow over the years, it was concerning but there was no pain involved and if I’m being told by the very people I put my career in the hands of, people are telling me 'I’m fine, I’m fine.' That’s how I looked at it.”

 

That approach never changed with Williams, however as the growth got worse, he finally convinced the Redskins doctors to take a closer look.

“I got the team to finally get what I thought was a cyst extracted, and when they did, they found it wasn’t a cyst it was a tumor,” Williams said. “DFSP is what the cancer is called, a very rare soft tissue cancer. So they realized it was that and you know obviously five years it grew substantially than what it was when I first brought it to their attention.”

 

The first removal was done by Redskins team doctors at Inova, but “they kind of underestimated it and it was far more advanced than they realized,” Williams said. “I don’t think they realized how long it was there — the doctors who have seen me — so they had to send me somewhere else. That’s when I ended up going to Chicago.”

 

Williams went to a doctor in Chicago who was recommended to him by Redskins owner Daniel Snyder. Through all the back-and-forth with the team, Williams maintains his respect for Snyder in part because he feels that Snyder helped save his life, per a source close to Williams. It’s also why he chose not to speak out during the last six months.

[Burgold]

12 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

And he has done that.

 

People deal with things in entirely different ways. It's really easy to judge someone from a distance. It sounds like this was taken care of fairly recently. He didn't sit on this for six years. C'mon, guys. 

 

I'm real disappointed in the general ES hivemind for this one.

 

Trent isn't blameless, but that doesn't make him any less sympathetic in this issue. This is scary, messed up and difficult.

 

 

@dballer's response was better imo. Trent certainly is human and doesn't have to be an advocate. People deal with the emotions and reality of disease in vastly different ways. I still believe that if he knew since at least March and chose to say absolutely nothing to the public that's a problem. That is at least six months. He said he was weeks away from the cancer reaching a point where it could kill him. If people need to know, if he was to become an advocate, those extra six months are a very big deal to some families. Trent has no responsibility towards them and who knows if the right ears would have even heard if he spoke out, but there's a chance he saves lives.

 

That's bigger than football.

 

At the same time, as I said, my sympathy is greater for Trent because he had to wrestle with mortality in the most serious way and the people who were looking out for him that he fought and bled for let him down. I don't blame Trent for being pissed with the team. I'm okay with that. It's just that I think it's possible his story might have been more important to share than his relationship with the Redskins.

 

In my book, it would have been better had he spoken out about this and brought it into the light as soon as he understood what was going on. It might have saved lives. That's independent of the Redskins. He has/had no obligation to do so, but it would have been the better thing to do.

[Llevron]

6 minutes ago, sempre_victrix said:

Unfortunately, we don’t have every detail about this 6+ Year issue, so we’re left to speculate and take sides. None of us knows TW personally, so we’re putting ourself in his place and assuming his thought process should how we’d have thought. 

 

He has recently been pretty open about how he felt, though. not that I disagree with what I think your point is. 

 

6 minutes ago, sempre_victrix said:

 

Didnt we we have a different medical staff 6 years ago?  If so, that’s 2 separate groups of physicians not being worried about this lump over the course of 6 years

 

 

This is a really good point too. Can anyone confirm this? I do remember switching medical staff. Two different staffs telling you the same thing should be something you could trust. 

[KDawg]

11 minutes ago, Burgold said:

@dballer's response was better imo. 

 

 

 

 

It's a good thing I wasn't trying to get in an ego measuring contest for who's response is better to what, but rather get a point across that our fanbase is disappointing as hell on a humane level. To that end, I agree his response was better. And I'm glad he posted it.

 

Quote

That's bigger than football.

 

Yes. Thank you.

[sempre_victrix]

Per TW, he never got a second opinion.  They discovered is was cancerous when they though they were removing a cyst.

 

"I didn’t go elsewhere, I got the team to finally get what I thought was a cyst extracted. And when they did, they found it wasn’t a cyst it was a tumor. DFSP is what the cancer is called, a very rare soft tissue cancer. So they realized it was that and you know obviously five years it grew substantially than what it was when I first brought it to their attention," Williams said. 

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/redskins/redskins-fire-back-trent-williams-medical-review-request-nfl

[Skinsinparadise]

Just listened to Finlay.  He said it's clear to him teammates are behind Trent.  He said when Trent was talking to the media there was a herd of his teammates behind them nodding their heads and saying preach to Trent when he was talking.  

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

54 minutes ago, sempre_victrix said:

As someone with unlimited funds, do they need to be told to get a second opinion from a specialist over a lump on their head?  Lumps are not common. Then man is trying to blame everyone for not getting it looked into

 

Whether you have $100M or $100, doesn't mean you're savvy about health.  I'd venture a guess there are a lot of players that trust the team doctors/staff they deal with regularly.  For everything.  Now you can say that's stupid and you wouldn't necessarily be wrong, but that's the way it is.  The world is full of men with healthcare plans that refuse to see a doctor until they can't stand the pain any longer or they die.  That's also not smart, but that's the way it is. 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

51 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Should Trent take some personal accountability for this? Yeah. I don't think that's asking too much... and maybe that's all you guys are saying?

I'm sure Trent feels incredibly stupid for not taking matters into his own hands sooner than he did.  And no, that's not all they are saying.  What fans are doing, per usual, is acting like football players aren't human because they make a lot of money to play a kids game.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I'm sure Trent feels incredibly stupid for not taking matters into his own hands sooner than he did.  And no, that's not all they are saying.  What fans are doing, per usual, is acting like football players aren't human because they make a lot of money to play a kids game.

 

That's the read I get from it, too, BFS. But I like to give the benefit of the doubt. I don't know what's going through anyone's mind, so assuming things is okay for forming somewhat educated opinions, but I can't try to talk in absolutes about that stuff without them coming out and saying exactly what they are thinking.

[Skinsinparadise]

44 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Its undoubtedly about guaranteed money... but I don't think that's the direct reason any of this is occurring. That's the symptom of the ailment. His mistrust of the FO/Medical staff is the catalyst. The money is the coping mechanism. 

 

I've said from the outset if Trent wants a raise or extension, I am against that.  If he wants the same status quo money but wants it to be guaranteed, I support that.  And Trent flat out said that's exactly what he wants and said he's not asking for a dime more than what he is already slated to be paid.  I got no problem with that.  And I understand his angle on it especially in the context of the medical scare. 

9 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

Whether you have $100M or $100, doesn't mean you're savvy about health.  I'd venture a guess there are a lot of players that trust the team doctors/staff they deal with regularly.  For everything.  Now you can say that's stupid and you wouldn't necessarily be wrong, but that's the way it is.  The world is full of men with healthcare plans that refuse to see a doctor until they can't stand the pain any longer or they die.  That's also not smart, but that's the way it is. 

 

 

 

I'd add about Trent, I recall him saying this years back that he was scared of surgery and he didn't like going through medical procedures.  I doubt he's the type who is going to push things if he is already reassured my doctors.  I am the same way, I hate doctors.  I am not going out of my way to push something if I am reassured for another opinion.    I get some would indeed do it.  But hey we are all human with our own way of rolling through things.