Owls0325

!!!!0mgz!!!! Trent Williams finally showed up

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Ok...just throwing this out here now because I honestly dont know.

 

Does anyone know if TW has even been medically cleared to play?

 

Is it possible that he hasn't been and the argument is more about her rather rehab on his own because he doesnt trust the trainers there?

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Posted (edited)

Self medicating!!! Buyer beware.

 

That may be the only way Bruce wins this one.

Edited by RandyHolt
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15 minutes ago, Skin'emAlive said:

 

Antonio Brown quit on his team in the middle of a playoff bid because Juju surpassed him, let the fame get to his head, threw his teamates under the bus, and demanded a huge raise 2 years into a 5-year extension.

 

Trent is nothing like this dude. He had a falling out over a medical issue. Show me a doctor who has correctly diagnosed an illness 100% of the time, and ill show you a liar. Its unfortunate that he wants out, but its probably for the best for both parties.

 

Pure speculation, but i wouldn’t be surprised if Antonio Brown strong arming the Steelers didn’t provide a framework for Williams to operate in. 

 

-Age similar (one last mega deal)

-Contract situation: Brown wanted an extension, raise, and guarantees added 

-Issues with the organization 

 

I’m on side of keeping Trent and don’t mind adding money and years to his deal. 

 

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

Pure speculation, but i wouldn’t be surprised if Antonio Brown strong arming the Steelers didn’t provide a framework for Williams to operate in.

 

 

Kirk Cousins provided the blueprint to negotiating your own raise using the leverage of desperation. The previous model ( the Joe Flacco and contract year phenomenon model) required the player to far surpass his average in the contract year, capitalize on the ultimate success, and force the franchise to speak with you even if ultimately undeserving.

Edited by Skin'emAlive
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2 minutes ago, Skin'emAlive said:

 

Kirk Cousins provided the blueprint to negotiating your own raise using the leverage of desperation. The previous model ( the Joe Flacco and contract year phenomenon model) required the player to far surpass his average in the contract year, capitalize on the ultimate success, and force the franchise to speak with you even if ultimately undeserving.

 

Antonio Brown had years left on his deal as does Williams, Flacco and Cousins we’re coming off cheap rookie year deals. Not to mention QBs work on a different stratosphere in relation to other positions. But I agree with both points. 

 

Antonio Brown became a huge distraction and no longer worth keeping. Is Williams attempting to do the same? Will he demand a team trading for him give an extension and raise? 

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Posted (edited)

With no real proof I think Lev Bell opened the door to sitting out by planting the seed in many disgruntled players minds. At least in modern times. What other high profile 'sit out the year' stunts have their been?  Don't say John Riggins.

 

Bell sat out all year, and is back and ready to roll with the Jets.

 

And it sure seems like others are following his lead. Including the crop top ewok freak down in D.

 

And I see connor just tweeted this:

More info on Trent Williams situation from@kevinsheehanDC podcast. Said team believed Trent's growth was just a cyst. Kevin said team doctors did suggest  a second opinion but when Trent pressed about whether it was serious or not, team said no. So he didn't seek 2nd opinion.
Edited by RandyHolt

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1 hour ago, PartyPosse said:

If Antonio Brown could only nab a 3rd and a 5th I’d be shocked if we get a 1st.

 

Grant Paulsen said he asked around with people he knew and said he's mostly hearing a 2nd and a 4th.

 

Craig Hoffman who has been one of the bigger optimists as for this getting resolved said on the air a little while ago that as fr as he understands the team hasn't really heard from Trent.  Unless I misheard him.  

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3 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

Antonio Brown had years left on his deal as does Williams, Flacco and Cousins we’re coming off cheap rookie year deals. Not to mention QBs work on a different stratosphere in relation to other positions. But I agree with both points. 

 

Antonio Brown became a huge distraction and no longer worth keeping. Is Williams attempting to do the same? Will he demand a team trading for him give an extension and raise? 

 

Cousins was coming off two straight extremely expensive undeserved franchise tags following his rookie contract. He has made more for doing less than anyone not named Sam Bradford. He wanted the moon, got the moon, and i fully anticipate Mike Zimmer to be packing his bags after Keenum embarrasses Minnesota in week 8 under the lights. He wasnt under contract, but he was technically by way of franchise tag, and used the desperation of Washington and Minnesota to drive up his asking price to the level he wanted by stringing it all along. Not a bad move on his part. But the marriage will end badly. 

 

Trent is doing something similar, even if he hasnt publicly said anything. The problem here is that Gruden is not the GM and has no control over personnel decisions, our team is no longer desperate and can afford to lose, and we have all the leverage in the world. If anything, losing next year would ultimately help this team in the long run in the same way losing helped the Colts in the 2018 draft. The worst case scenario of being absolutely terrible next year would become a best case scenario of having one of the biggest trade assets in the past decade with a qb of the future already on the roster.

 

 

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1 hour ago, goskins10 said:

 

I agree with everything except the last part that's bolded. Have you seen something that outlines his exact demands? I have not. If you have please share - I mean that honestly. I have not seen anything from Trent or his representation that has stated what exactly he wants. There has been rampant speculation but nothing from Trent or his camp. Not even anything from the Redskins in terms of specifics. 

 

Jumping to the conclusion that he is making ridiculous demands when we do not know what those demands are is not fair to him - or the team either. The only things we know is he is unhappy which is keeping him out of TC. And the team "says" they know what is going on. 

 

Literally everything else is pure speculation. Something in there will turn out to be right. But at this moment we really do not know anything for sure outside of what I outlined above. 

 

Was basing my comment on what we have heard, not Trent or his camp or the team.  If he isn't demanding that, then I'll back off my stance that he wants a ridiculous demand.  If it turns out he did say that or something closely related, then I'll stand by my comments.  

 

Right now, that is the only thing we have to go by.  And it could be that he just angry about how he feels his condition was handled and asked for a trade and informed them he would hold out until that happened and never demanded they replace the medical/training staff in order for him to come back.  

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23 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

Antonio Brown became a huge distraction and no longer worth keeping. Is Williams attempting to do the same? Will he demand a team trading for him give an extension and raise? 

 

That's why IMO if they are going to trade him -- leading up to it I think they have to come off as being reluctant to make a deal unless they get a really good offer.  If teams smell blood where the Redskins have no choice but trade him then their leverage sinks like what happened with Antonio Brown.

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The info that kevin Sheehan said on his podcast leads me to believe this is all on Trent after all. He chose to not get a 2nd opinion even though Team doctors suggested he should. Doesn’t sound like any wrongdoing of the team doctors to me. 

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1 hour ago, NewCliche21 said:

 

Thanks man, I really needed to read that.  You're right on all points.  I hope it didn't come across as me saying that you're a bad fan and that you want him gone and all that, I just knew that you were right and wanted to hear some more.
 

 

I didn't think that :)

 

Peterson and Smith, though, will be gone soon even if their cap hits aren't.  Williams was a homegrown, went through the whole Griffin debacle, and all of the dysfunction.  Pairing that loss of leadership with the totally justified thought of, "Man, TRENT wants out of here?  Mr. Redskin for the past decade?  Maybe I don't re-sign."  Or similar thoughts to the FA market.  Just piles on Bruce.

 

Couple of things...

 

1) They may be gone... Or they may not. Peterson is signed to a two year deal. If he produces this year he'll be back. Alex Smith may transition into coaching with the team. I wouldn't count them as gone quite yet.

 

2) I can see that point about people seeing 71 is leaving and not wanting to come here... But Donald Penn reached out to Williams and still signed. Seems to me that Williams had all good things to say except for his own personal experiences and he probably shared exactly that with Penn. Penn signing isn't exactly a great on-field move, but it is certainly a good sign that he signed AFTER speaking to Williams.

 

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

The info that kevin Sheehan said on his podcast leads me to believe this is all on Trent after all. He chose to not get a 2nd opinion even though Team doctors suggested he should. Doesn’t sound like any wrongdoing of the team doctors to me. 

 

You omitted the part of Trent asking if it was really serious, and them saying no.

 

If your doctor told you to get a 2nd opinion, and then you said Really, is it serious? and then they said no.... that says your doctor backed off his suggestion, right?  They should have stressed YES IT COULD BE SERIOUS go get it checked out.  They did the opposite.

 

The last thing certain people hear, is what sticks with him 😉

Edited by RandyHolt

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1 hour ago, Hooper said:

How can anyone give our medical staff the benefit of the doubt after the past few seasons? The most telling thing about the Brewer article is that Gruden met with Trent's personal medical team to see if they had any answers for the medical disaster that has been the Redskins.

 

There is a big difference in giving the benefit of the doubt to the medical staff on handling rehab/injuries/conditioning/etc. in terms of football related instances, and giving them the benefit of the doubt that they may have told TW to go to a specialist and get checked out if he was that worried about the growth on his head because they didn't know if it was nothing to worry about.

 

I pointed out in an earlier post that we most likely will never hear their side of the story due to privacy laws (HIPAA).  Trent getting on social media and discussing how they handled his medical issue is fine, it's his choice to do so or not.  But if the team or training/medical staff were to say anything or comment on it directly then it's a HIPAA violation.   And that is the type of stuff that can lead to lawsuits, loss of employment, etc.  

 

Thing is, if they provided guidance and directed him to seek out an independent specialist or didn't do that, they can't talk about it or defend themselves (if they did the right thing).  

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1 minute ago, RandyHolt said:

 

You omitted the part of Trent asking if it was really serious, and them saying no.

 

If your doctor told you to get a 2nd opinion, and then you said Really, is it serious? and then they said no.... that says your doctor backed off his suggestion, right?

They still suggested he get a 2nd opinion though, even with them saying they don’t think it’s serious. He should’ve gone to someone else as they suggested. He didn’t, and now he’s not training with the team 

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9 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

 

You omitted the part of Trent asking if it was really serious, and them saying no.

 

If your doctor told you to get a 2nd opinion, and then you said Really, is it serious? and then they said no.... that says your doctor backed off his suggestion, right?  They should have stressed YES IT COULD BE SERIOUS go get it checked out.  They did the opposite.

 

The last thing certain people hear, is what sticks with him 😉

 

And you're forgetting that, in the end, it was benign. So (assuming this is true), we have team doctors saying:

 

1) We don't think this is serious

2) But we recommend you get a second opinion

 

And we have Trent Williams:

 

1) Not getting a second opinion right away

2) Getting scared eventually when he does 

3) Learning that the team's doctors were correct in the beginning

 

Now, I have no clue how it all went down. But, I'm still failing to see what in this scenario has led to "fire the doctors or trade me" 

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5 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

 

You omitted the part of Trent asking if it was really serious, and them saying no.

 

If your doctor told you to get a 2nd opinion, and then you said Really, is it serious? and then they said no.... that says your doctor backed off his suggestion, right?  They should have stressed YES IT COULD BE SERIOUS go get it checked out.

 

You know it's possible that they didn't think it was serious because they aren't specialists in that area, but told him to get a second opinion, because they knew they weren't specialists.  

 

If they told him to get a second opinion and he didn't, that's 100% on TW, period, end of story.  He's a grown ass man and should know that the training/medical staff for a football team are not qualified to diagnose if a cyst/growth is cancerous or not.  I don't know about you but if I had some growth and was concerned, I'm going after that 2nd opinion to a specialist that is actually qualified to 1]  properly diagnose the cyst/growth and 2] remove it/perform surgery/post-op treatment/etc.

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2 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

 

You nailed it. I kind of came to my senses a little bit.  I have been down on Jay over the past 3 years, his offense has not been dynamic/unpredictable enough for my liking, after getting a tease at the end of 2015 when Kirk and Jordan Reed especially just exploded with a new approach to play calling.

 

Came to my senses... realizing the grass isn't always greener, if Jay leaves. Few can coach here effectively, and likely even fewer are even willing to come here. We may very find ourselves Zorn Dogged again; bring in a guy for an assistant position and give him the head coaching job. How telling was it, that he butchered our team colors in his first presser. I won't let down the maroon and black, and yellow?  Zorn was basically proof no one wanted to coach here. An unemployedShanah an.... 

 

I think our next coach will be OCKOC- I call it chasing McVay. If he bolts, or if we need an interim, it will be Callahan.

 

We are on the same page. Everyone wants Bill Belichick, Sean Payton, Pete Carrol, etc... Truthfully that type of coach has earned some say in players/coaches, which just is a non-starter in Washington. 

 

'Chasing McVay' is a beauty. When eventually we are looking for our next coach that should be the thread title. 

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18 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

That's why IMO if they are going to trade him -- leading up to it I think they have to come off as being reluctant to make a deal unless they get a really good offer.  If teams smell blood where the Redskins have no choice but trade him then their leverage sinks like what happened with Antonio Brown.

 

Agreed. 

 

I’d support the team taking it into the season if need be. Take advantage of a team riding the emotions of the season. 

 

Teams will have to make a stand stand at some point with players, much like Steelers with did with Bell. Bell lost big in that situation. 

 

17 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

The info that kevin Sheehan said on his podcast leads me to believe this is all on Trent after all. He chose to not get a 2nd opinion even though Team doctors suggested he should. Doesn’t sound like any wrongdoing of the team doctors to me. 

 

The narrative will shift to it being all Bruce’s fault. At some point, it will be proven Bruce misdiagnosed Williams. 

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21 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

The info that kevin Sheehan said on his podcast leads me to believe this is all on Trent after all. He chose to not get a 2nd opinion even though Team doctors suggested he should. Doesn’t sound like any wrongdoing of the team doctors to me. 

 

Unless, of course, he expected the Redskins to pay the bill. As was mentioned in a previous post here, the Skins will take care of any and all football related issues. Non-football related medical care is the players responsibility. TW seems like a nice enough guy, but maybe he thought that he is special and deserved the extra hand holding to get this addressed.

 

Maybe, there is a lot of fault on both sides.

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10 minutes ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

 

You know it's possible that they didn't think it was serious because they aren't specialists in that area, but told him to get a second opinion, because they knew they weren't specialists.  

 

If they told him to get a second opinion and he didn't, that's 100% on TW, period, end of story.  He's a grown ass man and should know that the training/medical staff for a football team are not qualified to diagnose if a cyst/growth is cancerous or not.  I don't know about you but if I had some growth and was concerned, I'm going after that 2nd opinion to a specialist that is actually qualified to 1]  properly diagnose the cyst/growth and 2] remove it/perform surgery/post-op treatment/etc.

 

Yeah I'm pretty sure that "It doesn't appear serious" and "You should see a specialist" aren't mutually exclusive. The person who checked him out may have said they didn't believe it was a serious issue but that they weren't specialists in that area so he should also see one. 

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The entire point of a second opinion is to confirm the first opinion, or get new info from a new set of eyes.

 

So if the team says "it doesn't look serious".. followed by a recommendation to get a second opinion (which SHOULD be the standard adult response anyway when it comes to this sort of thing)...

I don't care WHAT they tell you after that, even if you press them and they say "it isn't serious"... 

the whole point of a second opinion, which is reportedly suggested, is to find out if the fiest opinion is correct.

 

IF this is the issue,, it is 1000000% on TRENT.

GROW UP, BIG MAN.

 

But i still think it's money.

 

~Bang

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4 minutes ago, Bang said:

The entire point of a second opinion is to confirm the first opinion, or get new info from a new set of eyes.

 

So if the team says "it doesn't look serious".. followed by a recommendation to get a second opinion (which SHOULD be the standard adult response anyway when it comes to this sort of thing)...

I don't care WHAT they tell you after that, even if you press them and they say "it isn't serious"... 

the whole point of a second opinion, which is reportedly suggested, is to find out if the fiest opinion is correct.

 

IF this is the issue,, it is 1000000% on TRENT.

GROW UP, BIG MAN.

 

But i still think it's money.

 

~Bang

 

Agreed, the NFLPA put that in their CBA for this very reason. Team Doctors AREN'T Oncologists. If you have a weird bump and they said it was nothing to worry about. Then ****ing say that already. That's serious enough IMO to bring to light. But if that wasn't the case and they were unsure or didn't know. He still went to get that 2nd opinion as per the CBA and had it taken care of. 

 

If this is really him also being salty over a 3rd round project tackle when he's missing games. Well, then that's on him for being weak-minded. 

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12 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

And you're forgetting that, in the end, it was benign. So (assuming this is true), we have team doctors saying:

 

1) We don't think this is serious

2) But we recommend you get a second opinion

 

And we have Trent Williams:

 

1) Not getting a second opinion right away

2) Getting scared eventually when he does 

3) Learning that the team's doctors were correct in the beginning

 

Now, I have no clue how it all went down. But, I'm still failing to see what in this scenario has led to "fire the doctors or trade me" 

 

Well, it sounds like they diagnosed it as a cyst, not a tumor. So, there was a misdiagnosis on there end. They did recommend a second opinion, but then said it's not serious, so sort of back tracked. 

 

I agree team doctors are not the same as a real doctor and Trent has some responsibility for not getting a second opinion, but in fairness he's probably been going to these guys for the past 9 years for anything. From an ingrown toe nail to a tumor Trent has probably put a lot of trust in these guys. 

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