Owls0325

!!!!0mgz!!!! Trent Williams finally showed up

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2 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

 

Just having a little fun with you.  I appreciate what you do, SiP.

 

OK, sorry, cool.¬† ¬†ūüėĬ† ¬†Yeah I am genuinely neutral about Haskins.¬† And no one would accuse me of being neutral about Bruce Allen.¬†¬†;)

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23 minutes ago, Makaveli said:

Is he wrong? Why does a person with a record like that after 10 years continue to keep his job?

 

He's not wrong IMO, I love Trent leveling Bruce like that. 

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On 12/2/2019 at 10:04 AM, HigSkin said:

Although his medical situation was a primary reason for holding out, Williams did admit that not playing with any guaranteed money remaining on his current deal (which expires after the 2020 season) had an impact on his decision.

It impacted 100% of his decision. 

 

Dude got his guaranteed money. He took it and ran when he signed his contract. As i've said before, Guaranteed money offsets the risk of being cut early. Players know this, agents know this. Trent signed his deal with a giant guarantee contingent on him playing consistently at a high level in which he continues to be compensated for. Dude has either been suspended, injured or holding out for about 30-35 % of the deal and he complains he wants more money?

 

Dude may not have cancer, but he's fast become one. 

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Trent ask some obvious questions about Bruce no can ignore and box Snyder in completely. 

 

If Snyder wants to keep Bruce, I don't see how he spins it. He might as well just say "he's my blankie", stick his thumb in his mouth and go back into hiding.

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I assume that about now, Bruce has realized he should have just done the inevitable, and traded Trent.

 

What a buffoon!!!

 

And damn his thumb was dangling off and our team docs stuck a cast on him and said he could play next week.

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11 hours ago, PartyPosse said:

It impacted 100% of his decision. 

 

Dude got his guaranteed money. He took it and ran when he signed his contract. As i've said before, Guaranteed money offsets the risk of being cut early. Players know this, agents know this. Trent signed his deal with a giant guarantee contingent on him playing consistently at a high level in which he continues to be compensated for. Dude has either been suspended, injured or holding out for about 30-35 % of the deal and he complains he wants more money?

 

Dude may not have cancer, but he's fast become one. 

 

100%?? ... aren't you 100% guessing on that?   I guess the injuries more heavily impacted his decision. Much more. It's likely not a coincidence he had a cancer scare and then held out. Or that he had a wet noodle for a thumb and the team just stuck a cast on it.  The most obvious explanations for things tend to be the correct ones.

 

You seem to be assuming that he wanted MOAR money.  Do you have a single fact to support that?   Even if he did say I want a billion dollars, would you understand why he would say that?

 

To play under the care of our crack pot doctors, I think he more likely wanted the same monies guaranteed.  Requesting a raise would bump one of his teammates salary what with the team capped out. Not very becoming of a team captain.  Guaranteed money became all the rage after the Kirk saga. I have speculated that all along and pushed back at the masses that assumed from day 1, that he only wanted a raise. When he took one for the team and restructured his contract in 2015 for Bruce, Bruce didn't realize Trent may one day come back and request the same. 

 

I think the career threatening injuries all but forced Trent into doing the obvious, wanting guarantees before showing up to what has to be the leagues worst MASH unit. 

 

And undisputed, the worst GM.  Ultimately, I think he just wanted Bruce gone - everything else is just smoke.

Edited by RandyHolt
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13 hours ago, Makaveli said:

Is he wrong? Why does a person with a record like that after 10 years continue to keep his job?

He's been passing the responsibilities on for a good chunk of that time

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1 hour ago, RandyHolt said:

I have speculated that all along and pushed back at the masses that assumed from day 1, that he only wanted a raise. When he took one for the team and restructured his contract in 2015 for Bruce, Bruce didn't realize Trent may one day come back and request the same. 

 

I'd be willing to bet money that the root cause of the FO's ire, is Trent getting the second opinion, then surgery on his thumb which forced him to miss games last season. 

 

Trent's reps are in constant communication with the FO, everyone knew the offseason was a logical point in his contract to resume talks.  For the FO to act like it was out of the blue, was rich.  

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2 hours ago, megared said:

 

I'd be willing to bet money that the root cause of the FO's ire, is Trent getting the second opinion, then surgery on his thumb which forced him to miss games last season. 

 

Trent's reps are in constant communication with the FO, everyone knew the offseason was a logical point in his contract to resume talks.  For the FO to act like it was out of the blue, was rich.  

 

I think you'd lose that bet. They paid him after he got suspended twice, continued to spend the entire offseason way from the team to train, skipped mini-camps, and would miss games with injuries. What do you think the Patriots or Steelers would do with a player that did all of that? He would have been gone a few years ago for a top return while sending him a franchise like Washington that is run by idiots. 

 

I also doubt his reps are in constant contact with the team or even him.

 

All that said....still, #FireBruceAllen. Just because the messenger probably is lying about the timeline of his health scare and doesn't seem to take any ownership of it, doesn't mean he's wrong about this. No doubt Bruce made this personal and wouldn't have traded him for anything short of something unrealistic.

Edited by @SkinsGoldPants
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8 minutes ago, @SkinsGoldPants said:

 

I think you'd lose that bet. They paid him after he got suspended twice, continued to spend the entire offseason way from the team to train, skipped mini-camps, and would miss games with injuries.

 

You're talking ancient history...stuff from three seasons ago.  I was speculating on the point when Trent went from being franchise player, to persona non grata.  And it wouldn't shock me in the least, if it occurred when Trent got the second opinion, and then had a surgery the team didn't want him to have. 

 

It couldn't have been a realization that Trent was on the downside of his career...when they're still considering Kerrigan untouchable.  Something had to have soured between them, for them to just refuse contract talks outright after the season.  

 

8 minutes ago, @SkinsGoldPants said:

What do you think the Patriots or Steelers would do with a player that did all of that? He would have been gone a few years ago for a top return while sending him a franchise like Washington that is run by idiots. 

 

They wouldn't have paid him top money in the first place.  

 

8 minutes ago, @SkinsGoldPants said:

I also doubt his reps are in constant contact with the team or even him.

 

FO is constantly in touch with reps.  They talk throughout the season, offseason meetings, combines.  Trent made it a point of mentioning in his latest interview that Bruce ignored his calls/texts the day of the trade deadline.  

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It is shocking wow so many forget or ignore how great a "Redskin" Trent Williams was! He is the not villian here, Bruce Allen is!

 

Edited by celticsalmon
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5 minutes ago, megared said:

 

You're talking ancient history...stuff from three seasons ago.¬† I was speculating on the point when Trent went from being franchise player, to persona non grata.¬† And it wouldn't shock me in the least, if it occurred when Trent got the second opinion, and then had a surgery the team didn't want him to have.¬†ÔĽŅ

 

It couldn't have been a realization that Trent was on the downside of his career...when they're still considering Kerrigan untouchable.  Something had to have soured between them, for them to just refuse contract talks outright after the season.  

 

 

They wouldn't have paid him top money in the first place.  

 

 

FO is constantly in touch with reps.  They talk throughout the season, offseason meetings, combines.  Trent made it a point of mentioning in his latest interview that Bruce ignored his calls/texts the day of the trade deadline.  

 

When Trent and the NFLPA said they don't want an independent investigation because he wanted to move on...... before he's talked a few times since. Something stinks. The NFLPA was probably hoping his story checked out before their next CBA. The fact they backed off so fast says suggests he didn't give them the evidence they needed either.

 

There are no winners here. Both ****ed up IMO. This idea that Trent has this impeccable character and couldn't also be lying like we know Bruce lies all the time. That's naive. 

 

Yes, the FO is in touch with reps all the time. They usually have multiple clients. Was his agent the one leaking why Trent was pissed? Whoever did was inconsistent.  Now, if Trent and Bruce were in contact since the spring and all the sudden Bruce wasn't picking up the phone. That's messed up. If all the sudden after refusing calls from Bruce since he didn't show to mini-camp, he wants to call him back right before the deadline. Well, now they are both being assholes.

 

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

ToÔĽŅ play under the care of our crack pot doctors, I think he more likely wanted the same monies guaranteed.¬† Requesting a raise would bump one of his teammatesÔĽŅ salary what with the team capped out. Not very becoming of a team captain.¬† Guaranteed money became all the rage after the Kirk saga. I have speculated that all along and pushed back at the masses that assumed from day 1, that he only wanted a raise. When he took one for the team and restructured his contract in 2015 for Bruce, Bruce didn't realize Trent may one ÔĽŅday come back and reqÔĽŅÔĽŅuest the ÔĽŅsame

So you’re ok with players holding out despite being under contract for two years.

 

Sorry, that’s a bad precedent. If players don’t like the risks of being cut then take it up with the NFLPA. If Trent doesn’t like his current deal, he can take it up with his agent. If we stupidly don’t trade him in the offseason and he pulls the same crap next year (hold out until the last minute, show up for accrued season and then refuse to play) I would file a grievance.

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That Trent Williams interview was tough to read.  Two things that immediately jumped out for me was when Trent talked about potential FA's perception of the Skin's FO, and how if he was a free agent now, how he would be watching very carefully how they handled a pro bowler, with an injury.  Essentially how they treated a player who had given it all, played through injuries to represent the team, etc.  Just him saying what he said in that interview will  affect the perception of FA's in the future.  This is a damaging article that Dan cannot Crown Royal away with his bestie Bruce.  

 

The other interesting part for me is that it seems as though Trent is almost surprised at the dissolution of his "relationship" with Dan. That is very naive IMO.  Who does he think supported and encouraged Bruce?  Apparently he thinks Bruce acted on his own volition.  He does not see Dan clearly, particularly his influence upon many of the decisions he believes Bruce made on his own.  

 

Hopefully Danny cares more about his $$$ and drawing in fans then he does his drinking bud. And he may.  But I don't think he will get rid of Bruce completely. Bruce may be given a different title, and someone malleable may be elevated to the position of GM, possibly for the sake of appearance. I mean after SM was canned Bruce came right back in as the GM.  

 

It is going to be interesting off season.

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He seems to have created a narrative in his own mind that paints Bruce as the villain (not challenging his narrative), but seems to feel bad in a way towards not playing, getting paid, and how that’s impacted his relationship with Dan. Extremely emotional at this point, understandably so though. 
 

Maybe he expected to play for Skins all along, especially after Dan assisted with medical stuff (private plane and overall support), but wanted to get more money, then situation has continued to snowball for him and organization.
 

It certainly seems from my vantage point, this has not gone how Trent thought it would. 

 

My opinion, if organization was offered a first round pick, then they should’ve traded him, but anything less, I’m okay with dragging it out. Admittedly, I’m pretty numb to this stuff compared to others, so I don’t get outraged, as I think it won’t be an issue a year from now and the Skins will still sign free agents. All about money and opportunity at the end of the day. Do I wish the culture was much better, most definitely. 

Edited by wit33

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2 hours ago, @SkinsGoldPants said:

When Trent and the NFLPA said they don't want an independent investigation because he wanted to move on...... before he's talked a few times since. Something stinks. The NFLPA was probably hoping his story checked out before their next CBA. The fact they backed off so fast says suggests he didn't give them the evidence they needed either.

 

It was definitely before then.  After all, the team was framing the entire issue as a contractual one, through their leaks to the media.  You're not leaking things to the media during a hold out if you're looking to mend fences with the player.  There wasn't a reason for the FO to not even engage in contract talks (which I'm guessing was prior to the cancer discovery), if there wasn't some sort of acrimony there.  

 

2 hours ago, @SkinsGoldPants said:

There are no winners here. Both ****ed up IMO. This idea that Trent has this impeccable character and couldn't also be lying like we know Bruce lies all the time. That's naive. 

 

What benefit would it be for Trent to lie?  This isn't some fringe roster player saying it.  It's a guy the team's held up as a team leader, many times over.  

 

2 hours ago, @SkinsGoldPants said:

Yes, the FO is in touch with reps all the time. They usually have multiple clients. Was his agent the one leaking why Trent was pissed? Whoever did was inconsistent.  Now, if Trent and Bruce were in contact since the spring and all the sudden Bruce wasn't picking up the phone. That's messed up. If all the sudden after refusing calls from Bruce since he didn't show to mini-camp, he wants to call him back right before the deadline. Well, now they are both being assholes.

 

His reps only came out and said something after the team leaked the report about Trent not being happy with his contract (explaining his absence at mandatory mini camps).  Are you telling me, that at that point, they had no idea Trent was in no shape to participate?  I'd imagine they had some clue that there was additional surgery required.  

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Russell has a point, Trent egging on Bruce could backfire

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/redskins/news/trent-williams-should-stop-talking

 

Yes. Williams should stop talking. At this point, he's only hurting his cause. 

His first media gathering with reporters absolutely infuriated Redskins President/GM Bruce Allen and Owner Daniel Snyder, per a source. 

The more he talks, the more they are capable of digging in and playing the revenge game. 

 

...As we said back then, it was an unnecessary and retaliatory move by a man hell bent on revenge, Bruce Allen, who obviously had to green light a decision like this with Dan Snyder. 

 

...That's the problem. Williams thinks he has an ally to some degree in Snyder, but that doesn't appear to be the case anymore. Snyder helped arrange the medical procedure that led to the removal of the cancerous growth on Williams' scalp. 

Because the sense is that Allen and Snyder will attempt to make Williams miserable - they could refuse to trade him again this off-season. 

Then what? Even if this year counts toward the fulfillment of his contract (expected to be the case), Williams is still under terms for the 2020 season. 

 

The Redskins do not have to trade him, release him or do anything with him. 

At that point, what does Williams do? Does he sit out for two full years? Does he forfeit another 10+ million dollars

He could play, I suppose.  That will be a lot of fun. For no one. 

Or the Redskins could just continue to be petulant by not trading him and essentially try to ruin his career. 

I don't know if Trent has really thought about that aspect. He should, if he hasn't. 

The Redskins refused to trade him this season partially because of value, partially because of salary cap relief but mostly because of principle and revenge. 

 

That's how Bruce Allen operates. If he's in power still, this fight can go 15 rounds. If he's not, Williams stands a much greater chance but it's far from a certain resolution.

Unless Williams wants to become the next Cus D'Amato for his full-time gig, he should just zip it from here. 

Chris Russell is the Publisher of Maven & Sports Illustrated's Washington Redskins channel. 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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49 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Russell has a point, Trent egging on Bruce could backfire

 

I think him not talking out of deference before the trade deadline is the only reason he's still here.  

 

Had he pulled a McCardell I think it's more likely he could've forced his way off the team.  

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45 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

Trent really is sinking to Bruce's level. 

Nah, he doesn't have the capability to do so (literally). Bruce has more access to power levers than Trent therefore can go lower that Trent.

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3 hours ago, wit33 said:

He seems to have created a narrative in his own mind 

 

It certainly seems from my vantage point, this has not gone how Trent thought it would. 

 

 

Perhaps he got bad advice from his agent.  Trent holds out for half the season; says he won't ever play for the team; and at the last minute tries to salvage some money by showing up but head discomfort will prevent him from playing.  How did he expect the Skins to react?  To pay him?  I have no problem with the Skins doing whatever it takes to maximize the value they get in a trade.  The Skins need to fix their own house but Trent Williams isn't part of that house anymore so who cares?         

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6 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Russell has a point, Trent egging on Bruce could backfire

That could,

But that backfire would backfire on Bruce and Dan.

 

Trent has a point that other FA are paying attention to this story and are probably go elsewhere if they got a decent offer. Meaning the FO will have to pay more to lure FA in town.

It's not like we were already forced to overpay... And that coaches are thinking about it twice or thrice before signing in Washington.

 

Could backfire yeah. Doubt there's much to burn anymore on Trent's side. On the other side though...

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Trents a liar and piece of crap! Team stuck with him when he let us down in playoff run when he got suspended. Complains the team wouldnt wait for a helmet...lol...yea dude, we should wait when you showed up at the last minute. Maybe you should of looked into a helmet a few weeks before you showed up...once again...not taking responsibility. You were part of the reason the season was destroyed and the skins should just welcome you back. Its laughable that he thought the skins were hoping he would not know the deadline.

 

Then he pulls the race card!

 

The Skins doctors said it wasnt cancer, another doctor scared him and said it was, Skins doctors were right, seems he should be upset at the doctor that was wrong and told him it was cancer. THIS WAS ALL ABOUT AN EXTENSION

Edited by Gibbs828791
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16 hours ago, PlayAction said:

 

Perhaps he got bad advice from his agent.  Trent holds out for half the season; says he won't ever play for the team; and at the last minute tries to salvage some money by showing up but head discomfort will prevent him from playing.  How did he expect the Skins to react?  To pay him?  I have no problem with the Skins doing whatever it takes to maximize the value they get in a trade.  The Skins need to fix their own house but Trent Williams isn't part of that house anymore so who cares?         

 

He could've reported day 1 and not played, if it was about the money.  He was no where near ready to practice during OTAs, training camp, or preseason.  He told the FO to keep the money, but he wants out. 

 

If it was purely about money he would've played this season, knowing the team had to address his contract situation this offseason regardless.  

 

And Bruce has done absolutely zero to 'maximize the value' of Trent as a trade asset.  He's not even engaged interested trade partners....on top of that, they have a blacklist of ~1/3 of the teams in the league that they won't deal with.  Which pretty much means, a dramatically new market is not going to materialize for the Redskins this offseason.  All of the people, Bruce wouldn't deal with ~6 months ago, get to offer pennies on the dollar to 'help' Bruce out of a situation of his own making.  I wouldn't be surprised if this drags on into next season (if Bruce is here).  

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