Should the United States scrap the electoral college?

[The Evil Genius]

We have a serious problem when 2 candidates are differentiated by 7 million plus votes but the election system makes it a contested election.

 

7 million plus votes. Thats more than the total votes in Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, and Kentucky combined. 

Edited January 3, 2021 by The Evil Genius

[TheGreatBuzz]

3 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

We have a serious problem when 2 candidates are differentiated by 7 million plus votes but the election system makes it a contested election.

 

7 million plus votes. Thats more than the total votes in Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, and Kentucky combined. 

 

How is it a contested election?  Because the GOP said it is?  They would be doing the same thing if it was just a straight popular vote.

[Commander -JB-]

[tshile]

20 hours ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

 

How is it a contested election?  Because the GOP said it is?  They would be doing the same thing if it was just a straight popular vote.

The official count has Biden with over 300 ec’s I believe 🤷‍♂️ 

[Fergasun]

I don't know what's wrong about Popular Vote for President or some type of "Top 5" ranked choice.  

 

We are probably a decade away from the popular vote compact passing in enough states to make a difference. 

[Cooked Crack]

 

 

Again, the electoral college is trash and will be further gamed out. 

[The Evil Genius]

 

 

Edited January 13, 2021 by The Evil Genius

[Cooked Crack]

On 1/12/2021 at 11:26 AM, Cooked Crack said:

Again, the electoral college is trash and will be further gamed out. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 22, 2021 by Cooked Crack

[LD0506]

You have roughly 1/3 of the country with half the power, 2/3rds with half the power. "Representative government" is a joke, a cruel joke, in the age of gerrymandering and voter denial.

 

They haven't stopped or been stopped, the only "lesson" they learned is that they need to come harder and cheat more the next chance they get. 

 

If anything Stacey Abrams and her army of intense, intent women have showed the way. The focus should be on '22 now, today, targeting the 20 R Senate seats in play. Contest each and every one of them, force them to play defense and spend $$$ to defend every one of them. Focus resources where they can have the greatest effect, Toomey's seat in PA, Rubio in FLA, etc., but don't concede anything.

 

If there's another round of stimulus checks consider tossin a few bucks @ ActBlue or Stacey's FairFight or whatever other avenue you see to help out.

 

Crowdfunding small donations has been shown to be an effective tool to balance out the Rs megadonor corrupting influence, but that isn't over now that ***** has been flushed.

 

IMO the biggest lesson to be learned from everything we've gone through is that nothing is over, our democracy and country and our very lives require work, daily attention, and if we let them, the Rs and their zombie army will come back to finish the job next time.

[China]

Under House bills, Biden and Trump would have split Michigan's Electoral College votes

 

Michigan's House elections committee heard testimony Tuesday in support of a pair of bills that would dramatically change how the state awards its Electoral College votes.

 

Under legislation introduced by Rep. Beau LaFave, R-Iron Mountain, and Rep. Jeff Yaroch, R-Richmond, Electoral College votes would be awarded to the winner in each congressional district with two votes going to the statewide winner. Michigan currently awards all its Electoral College votes to the statewide winner.

 

LaFave and Yaroch told the members of the House Elections and Ethics Committee that they believe the proposal would force presidential candidates to campaign across the entire state instead of just focusing on winning votes in major population centers. 

 

Rep. Matt Koleszar, D-Plymouth, the committee's minority vice-chair, argued that the change would disenfranchise voters in the state.

 

"Put simply, isn't the whole purpose of this bill to ensure that the candidate receiving fewer votes in Michigan nevertheless receives electoral votes and thereby nullifies the votes of tens of thousands of Michigan voters?" Koleszar asked LaFave and Yaroch. 

 

"I would argue that at this point, our current winner-take-all system nullifies the votes of many people," Yaroch responded. 

 

Under the proposed legislation, presidential electors from congressional districts would cast an Electoral College vote only if the candidate from the political party that nominated them won the most votes in their congressional district while at-large electors would be determined based on the winner of the statewide vote. 

 

Maine and Nebraska are the only states that currently use this "district system," according to the National Conference of State Legislatures. Every other state and the District of Columbia have a "winner-take-all" system in which the slate of presidential electors is determined by the winner of the state's popular vote.

 

Republican state lawmakers in Wisconsin and New Hampshire have also put forward legislation to adopt the district system this year. 

 

Click on the link for the full article

[ClaytoAli]

One of the guys that’s pissed about scrapping the electoral college....2 credits shy of graduating.

[China]

Effort to overhaul archaic election law wins new momentum

 

Momentum is growing for making changes to an archaic election law after former President Trump and his allies tried to overturn the Electoral College results. 

 

Multiple groups on Capitol Hill are working on reforms to the Electoral Count Act, which lays out how the Electoral College results are counted. And in a rare area of overlap, GOP leaders in both chambers and President Biden are opening the door to changes to the 1887 law. 

 

Though talks on the law have been quietly happening behind the scenes on Capitol Hill for weeks, they are moving to the forefront as lawmakers try to figure out what, if anything, can be done in the election space after a separate, Democratic attempt to pass a sweeping voting rights bill unraveled. 

 

“It’s a good win there, I mean my goodness, that’s what caused the insurrection. That’s exactly what we should be doing,” said Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.), referring to the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol by Trump supporters who hoped to stop the formal Electoral College count.  

 

Members involved in a bipartisan Senate group, spearheaded by Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine) and Manchin, say they will meet by Zoom over the upcoming weeklong break, when they will all be back in their home states. 

 

The group’s talks are still in the early stages, with staff-level talks also happening. They don’t yet have a proposal and aren’t publicly putting a timeline on when they’ll get there. Instead, members have exchanged ideas on what they wanted included in potential legislation. 

 

“We’re going to be meeting by Zoom over the break to go through each of the items on each other's list and see where we have agreements and where we don’t,” said Sen. Mitt Romney (R-Utah), a member of the bipartisan group. 

 

Manchin and Collins, who held court with reporters together in the Senate basement so they could talk up their efforts, expressed optimism about the chances for a bipartisan agreement. The group includes some of the same senators who formed the so-called G-20, which helped break a stalemate on coronavirus relief at the end of the Trump administration and negotiated last year’s infrastructure deal. 

 

“The model for coming up with an election reform bill that is truly bipartisan, that would address many of the problems that arose on January 6 and that would help restore confidence in our elections is the approach that we used with the bipartisan infrastructure bill. That's what worked,” Collins said. 

 

The timing of the basement press conference with Collins and Manchin was notable. It came less than a day after Democrats hit a wall with their sweeping election bill after Manchin and Sen. Kyrsten Sinema (D-Ariz.) sided with Republicans against nixing the 60-vote filibuster for the legislation. 

 

Click on the link for the full article

[Renegade7]

https://www.npr.org/2022/08/10/1116688726/most-americans-support-using-the-popular-vote-to-decide-u-s-presidents-data-show

[philibusters]

The only way we will ever scrap the electoral college is if we reach a situation where neither party gets an obvious benefit from the electoral college (and there have been points in our history when this was true).   But for now, the electoral college is safe because one side gets a clear benefit of it and you need 3/4th of the states to ratify an amendment.

[Renegade7]

4 hours ago, philibusters said:

The only way we will ever scrap the electoral college is if we reach a situation where neither party gets an obvious benefit from the electoral college (and there have been points in our history when this was true).   But for now, the electoral college is safe because one side gets a clear benefit of it and you need 3/4th of the states to ratify an amendment.

 

I don't agree only way to address this is via ammendment and that's what will keep it from happening:

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact

 

Quote

As of June 2022, it has been adopted by fifteen states and the District of Columbia. These states have 195 electoral votes, which is 36% of the Electoral College and 72% of the 270 votes needed to give the compact legal force.

 

[China]

Electoral Count Reform Act picks up its 10th Republican, 8th Democratic co-sponsor in the Senate

 

News about the Electoral Count Reform Act has been a bit quiet ever since the Senate left for its August recess. The original bill, introduced in late July, had 9 Republicans and 7 Democrats backing it. In early August, the Des Moines Register broke the story that Senator Chuck Grassley was inclined to support it. He’s officially done so, becoming the 10th Republican Senator to back the Act, joined on the same day by Senator John Hickenlooper, the 8th Democratic Senator to back it.

 

If the goal is 60 votes to survive a filibuster, it means that Republicans won’t block it. Senator Roger Wicker predicted earlier this year and such a bill could get 80 votes in the Senate. We shall see.

[Captain Wiggles]

The EC doesn't need reforms. It needs to be completely abolished. 

 

Just look at who the author n co sponsors of that bill are. 🤮

[philibusters]

On 1/4/2021 at 2:45 PM, Fergasun said:

I don't know what's wrong about Popular Vote for President or some type of "Top 5" ranked choice.  

 

We are probably a decade away from the popular vote compact passing in enough states to make a difference. 

 

I don't want to be the thread naysayer but I don't see the popular vote compact passing enough states to be  effective in our current climate.   As it got close, I think some states would repeal the legislature where they agreed to be part of it.   Ultimately, the electoral college helps Democrats and hurts Republicans in a fairly consistent manner therefore one party has a reason to oppose it.  If it were back in the 1990s and it was not clear who would benefit or get hurt by the electoral college, then I think it would be easier to get the compact in effect.  I think if a state like Texas became purple that may fix the issue because that would mean if it was a strong election for the Democrats nationwide they likely took Texas.  What has made the situation particularly bad is Florida went from being purple to red.  So Biden can win by 7 million votes and still lose Florida (by 4%) which means it is very possible for a Democrat to win the popular vote and lose the electoral college.  Whereas if Florida and Texas were purple and tended to go to whoever won the national vote, then it would somewhat solve the issue.

[Ball Security]

1 hour ago, philibusters said:

 

I don't want to be the thread naysayer but I don't see the popular vote compact passing enough states to be  effective in our current climate.   As it got close, I think some states would repeal the legislature where they agreed to be part of it.   Ultimately, the electoral college helps Democrats and hurts Republicans in a fairly consistent manner therefore one party has a reason to oppose it.  If it were back in the 1990s and it was not clear who would benefit or get hurt by the electoral college, then I think it would be easier to get the compact in effect.  I think if a state like Texas became purple that may fix the issue because that would mean if it was a strong election for the Democrats nationwide they likely took Texas.  What has made the situation particularly bad is Florida went from being purple to red.  So Biden can win by 7 million votes and still lose Florida (by 4%) which means it is very possible for a Democrat to win the popular vote and lose the electoral college.  Whereas if Florida and Texas were purple and tended to go to whoever won the national vote, then it would somewhat solve the issue.

In what way does the EC help Dems and hurts Republicans?  There have been two recent elections where the Democratic candidate won the popular vote but lost the EC.  There has not been any Presidential elections where the Republican candidate won the popular vote, but lost the EC…at least since 1900.

[Riggo-toni]

The combination of the abortion issue combined with migration from California to Texas could, and I think will, move TX over to blue by the end of the decade, and then the EC will leave the GOP s.o.l.  If CA, NY, and TX all go dem, Florida and Ohio et al won't matter so much anymore. You might think that's wishful thinking, but remember CA up until the nineties was GOP territory - Nixon's southern strategy was based on adding the south to the CA votes to take it all.

[China]

19 minutes ago, Riggo-toni said:

The combination of the abortion issue combined with migration from California to Texas could, and I think will, move TX over to blue by the end of the decade, and then the EC will leave the GOP s.o.l.  If CA, NY, and TX all go dem, Florida and Ohio et al won't matter so much anymore. You might think that's wishful thinking, but remember CA up until the nineties was GOP territory - Nixon's southern strategy was based on adding the south to the CA votes to take it all.

 

BTW, re: the migration from California to Texas:

 

 

[The Hangman- C_Hanburger]

On 1/3/2021 at 5:12 PM, The Evil Genius said:

We have a serious problem when 2 candidates are differentiated by 7 million plus votes but the election system makes it a contested election.

 

7 million plus votes. Thats more than the total votes in Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, and Kentucky combined. 

Not in a Republic. The US is NOT a democracy government. The "contract" aka Constitution was agreed to by all participants that outlined representation by State AND Population. The Senate is 2 Senators per State while the House if based on Population Centers. That was the condition that the states agreed to be governed by a Federal Government subject to the LIMITATIONS of 10th Amendment =The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

 

If you want to change that..there is a process defined;

Four Methods of Amending the U.S. Constitution

• A two-thirds vote in both houses of the U.S. Congress. Ratified by three-fourths of the state legislatures.
• A two-thirds vote in both houses of U.S. Congress. ...
• A national constitutional convention called by two-thirds of the state legislatures.

[Ball Security]

19 minutes ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

Not in a Republic. The US is NOT a democracy government. The "contract" aka Constitution was agreed to by all participants that outlined representation by State AND Population. The Senate is 2 Senators per State while the House if based on Population Centers. That was the condition that the states agreed to be governed by a Federal Government subject to the LIMITATIONS of 10th Amendment =The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

 

If you want to change that..there is a process defined;

Four Methods of Amending the U.S. Constitution

• A two-thirds vote in both houses of the U.S. Congress. Ratified by three-fourths of the state legislatures.
• A two-thirds vote in both houses of U.S. Congress. ...
• A national constitutional convention called by two-thirds of the state legislatures.

What’s the fourth?

[GhostofSparta]

30 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

What’s the fourth?

[philibusters]

12 hours ago, Ball Security said:

In what way does the EC help Dems and hurts Republicans?  There have been two recent elections where the Democratic candidate won the popular vote but lost the EC.  There has not been any Presidential elections where the Republican candidate won the popular vote, but lost the EC…at least since 1900.

 

I said that backwards.  It was pretty clear from the rest of the post what I meant though as I talked about Florida a state with a lot electoral votes going from purple to red really exacerbating the situation.

Edited September 2, 2022 by philibusters