Starting QB 2019???

[Smooters]

Bring back John Beck. **** it.

[Jericho]

12 hours ago, Veryoldschool said:

Draft a QB?  The Redskins had a very good QB on their own roster for years and didn't recognize it and you expect this ownership to pluck a winner out of the draft?  I don't want the Skins to use a top pick in the draft in 2019 for a QB because I think they will choose poorly.

 

So I think they should look at the ones on practice squads and get one cheap and use the top picks for the OL. 

 

It's low risk, but it's not really a solution either. The odds that you can pluck a guy off someone else's practice squad (particularly at this stage of the year) and even get a competent back-up aren't great. Let alone address the starter situation. 

[JSSkinz]

3 hours ago, TheYappingDog said:

I wouldn't mind kicking the tyres on Johnny Manziel for gits and shiggles. I've always liked his game and if he's cleaned up his act, why not?

2

[Anselmheifer]

Am I the only one that thinks we could/should sign Colin Kaepernick, run the hell of the ball, find a better defensive coordinator, and work on finding a long term QB solution? I have only intermittently checked into the thread, but I have been surprised how little I've seen Kaepernick's name come up. 

[Veryoldschool]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Agree about the draft.  But its also ditto as to trades and ditto as to FA.   People joke about the Browns historic ineptness at QB but I think Dan has surpassed them.  While I agree with those who say Jay has limitations as a head coach, I still think he brings more good than bad and I am not a critic of him and I'd be fine if he returns.  And yeah I'll dare to say it (no matter how unpopular the view these days with some 😀) the only person I trust in that front office to get the QB position right especially if its the draft -- would be them relying on Jay's personnel skills. 

 

As your point about picking a QB off a practice squad, its bad enough with them messing up in the draft combing through highly regarded college QBs -- you like their odds better playing with basically the draft rejects?

 

Regarding the practice squad, I don't know if a team has to compensate a team for grabbing someone from another team's practice squad but if it isn't much that is the way to go because someone other than the Skins thought the kid had enough talent to hang on to on a practice squad.  I would rather trust another team's coach and front office than Dan Synder who will want to draft whatever kid sends a chill up his leg.

 

If they invest the top 2 or 3 picks in a good OL than maybe they will be able to run better and make it easier for Alex Smith or whoever is under center 2019 and beyond.  The defense isn't a sieve anymore and improving the running game and time of possession could turn the 2019 Skins into contenders with Smith back, stranger things have happened.

[zCommander]

14 hours ago, DJHJR86 said:

Other than going 9-7 or making the playoffs, I don't see a scenario where Gruden is back next year.  

 

Gruden is here until 2020 and Allen is not getting fired. This is the scenario you are not thinking of. 

 

 

[sempre_victrix]

1 hour ago, Anselmheifer said:

Am I the only one that thinks we could/should sign Colin Kaepernick, run the hell of the ball, find a better defensive coordinator, and work on finding a long term QB solution? I have only intermittently checked into the thread, but I have been surprised how little I've seen Kaepernick's name come up. 

 

As long as the Jay/Bruce/Doug think it’s a bad idea, I’m happy. He’s nothing special and would create more issues than any help he could bring.  Rather see Johnny Football and I don’t want him, either   

[WVSkinsfan]

On 11/18/2018 at 5:57 PM, Veretax said:

WHo is at QB doesn't matter if we don't improve pass protection.  We need a new Tackle, and a new Left Guard.

I've been dreaming of taking a LT/LG early then trading up late in the 1st for someone like WIll Grier (but I doubt he lasts that long)

 

I would like to see Will Grier in the burgundy and Gold. He has the arm and very calm in the pocket.Very few bad balls thrown by him. BUT with this sorry ownership who knows what they do probably draft a punter.🙄

[Anselmheifer]

12 minutes ago, sempre_victrix said:

 

As long as the Jay/Bruce/Doug think it’s a bad idea, I’m happy. He’s nothing special and would create more issues than any help he could bring.  Rather see Johnny Football and I don’t want him, either   

It's crazy that people would rather see Johnny Football here, than Kaepernick, who actually WAS a quality starter in the league. Nuts. I won't get political, but a guy speaks up about a cause and he can't get signed. I don't care if he's a right wing nut, or a left wing nut. Other than having a voice, he's been a good citizen. Hasn't raped anyone, ala Roethlisberger. Hasn't beaten any women, had a DUI or a drug arrest. It's nuts to me that regardless of what his politics are, that Kaepernick plays the most important position in the league, is probably at least an average starter and would be cheap, and people would even consider Johnny Manziel, who has his own history of violence against women, and is both nucking futs, and ISN'T GOOD AT FOOTBALL. I love that Reuben Foster isn't too toxic with his 10k arrests this year and possible felony assault on a woman, and Kaepernick is. 

 

 

2 minutes ago, WVSkinsfan said:

 

I would like to see Will Grier in the burgundy and Gold. He has the arm and very calm in the pocket.Very few bad balls thrown by him.

Isn't the one knock on Will Grier his arm? He does seem very heady. I love a guy that can read a defense, knows where to go with the ball and is accurate. I'm not sure about the arm. 

[Birdlives]

Not sure who it will be, but I know who it won’t be; Alex Smith.

[WVSkinsfan]

10 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

It's crazy that people would rather see Johnny Football here, than Kaepernick, who actually WAS a quality starter in the league. Nuts. I won't get political, but a guy speaks up about a cause and he can't get signed. I don't care if he's a right wing nut, or a left wing nut. Other than having a voice, he's been a good citizen. Hasn't raped anyone, ala Roethlisberger. Hasn't beaten any women, had a DUI or a drug arrest. It's nuts to me that regardless of what his politics are, that Kaepernick plays the most important position in the league, is probably at least an average starter and would be cheap, and people would even consider Johnny Manziel, who has his own history of violence against women, and is both nucking futs, and ISN'T GOOD AT FOOTBALL. I love that Reuben Foster isn't too toxic with his 10k arrests this year and possible felony assault on a woman, and Kaepernick is. 

 

 

Isn't the one knock on Will Grier his arm? He does seem very heady. I love a guy that can read a defense, knows where to go with the ball and is accurate. I'm not sure about the arm. 

 

 

He can throw it downfield when he needs to.The offense he played at WVU is all you need to know just how talented he is.The Big 12 QB's never get any respect on tv but you have watched Mahomes with the Chiefs playing like 10 yr vet and thats exactly what Will Grier would bring to us.Besides the NFL is turning into the Big 12 with all these high scoring games with QB throwing tons of yards.

[Skinsinparadise]

8 hours ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

Regarding the practice squad, I don't know if a team has to compensate a team for grabbing someone from another team's practice squad but if it isn't much that is the way to go because someone other than the Skins thought the kid had enough talent to hang on to on a practice squad.  I would rather trust another team's coach and front office than Dan Synder who will want to draft whatever kid sends a chill up his leg.

 

If they invest the top 2 or 3 picks in a good OL than maybe they will be able to run better and make it easier for Alex Smith or whoever is under center 2019 and beyond.  The defense isn't a sieve anymore and improving the running game and time of possession could turn the 2019 Skins into contenders with Smith back, stranger things have happened.

 

Ah Ok, its about building the team first around the future QB, am ok with that logic.  But eventually, you have to take a chance and pull the trigger on someone.  Practice squad QBs just about close to never pan out.  Dan has been just as bad at delving into these older veteran QBs (while giving up draft capital) in trades as he has dipping into the draft.  Shanny been the exception who scouted the QBs a lot personally and at least got one of the QBs right.  As much as Jay gets flak on this board, I think he's equally talented at scoping out QBs -- he got Dalton in the 2nd and talked Dan into benching RG3 among other things.

[Jericho]

9 hours ago, WVSkinsfan said:

 

 

He can throw it downfield when he needs to.The offense he played at WVU is all you need to know just how talented he is.The Big 12 QB's never get any respect on tv but you have watched Mahomes with the Chiefs playing like 10 yr vet and thats exactly what Will Grier would bring to us.Besides the NFL is turning into the Big 12 with all these high scoring games with QB throwing tons of yards.

 

I know people around here always love to fall in love with some young QB prospect  they think is the next big thing. And although 95% of them never pan out, there's always a few that do. And maybe Will Grier is one of the exceptions. But the evidence for him surely has to be better than some other guy that played in his conference recently has panned out. Because Geno Smith was a West Virginia QB. So was Pat White. Of course that does mean they played the same system or even in the Big 12. But the Big 12 hasn't exactly had a foolproof record of QB picks (Colt McCoy and Robert Griffin are both ex-Big 12 QBs)

[Veryoldschool]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Ah Ok, its about building the team first around the future QB, am ok with that logic.  But eventually, you have to take a chance and pull the trigger on someone.  Practice squad QBs just about close to never pan out.  Dan has been just as bad at delving into these older veteran QBs (while giving up draft capital) in trades as he has dipping into the draft.  Shanny been the exception who scouted the QBs a lot personally and at least got one of the QBs right.  As much as Jay gets flak on this board, I think he's equally talented at scoping out QBs -- he got Dalton in the 2nd and talked Dan into benching RG3 among other things.

 

We don't know how things will go with Alex Smith.  It is possible he is done and it is also possible he comes back and would be able to perform better behind a stronger OL.  So in 2019 I would invest heavily in the OL and draft a QB if necessary in 2020.

 

Yes, like you I believe Jay like Shanny could pick a QB if allowed to but I think Snyder would end up picking a loser because he would get his way.  So I think the smart play would invest in the OL to empower Smith in 2019 and if he can't play or is ineffective in 2019 the Skins will have a better OL and team for the rookie in 2020.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Curious why so much hype on Grier vs. Haskins.

[Voice_of_Reason]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I think he's equally talented at scoping out QBs -- he got Dalton in the 2nd and talked Dan into benching RG3 among other things.

Is there something out there that pointed to his involvement in drafting dalton?  He was the OC, so I imagine he had a voice, but he would have been down the list of people selecting the QB.

 

I give him credit for developing Dalton, though Dalton isn’t exactly a top 10 QB. But he devoted well for a while...

 

As far as Griffin, at the time he AND McLoughan convinced Bruce and Dan to go with cousins, everybody besides Bruce and Dan already knew Griffin couldn’t play. At least not in a traditional scheme.

 

I still believe to this day if Griffin has just been willing to be a dual threat QB, and been coachable, he could have had a good career.  Assuming he could figure out when to get down when he was running to avoid injury.  The run scheme the Shanahans developed also protected Griffin.  

 

The best HC/OC for him were the Shanahans. Because they adjusted the scheme to fit him.  

 

Then he said he didn’t want to run that offense and ran them out of town. Then they hired Gruden who has no desire to EVER adjust what he wants to do, and is clueless when it comes to designing a run game.  

 

Which was the absolute worst possible scenario for Griffin.  

[Skinsinparadise]

12 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Is there something out there that pointed to his involvement in drafting dalton?  He was the OC, so I imagine he had a voice, but he would have been down the list of people selecting the QB.

 

 

Yep I recall it from the RG3 thread where there was discussion about why the Bengals drafted Dalton and not Kaepernick - Jay heavily involved in that decision, recall the articles on it.

 

12 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I

I give him credit for developing Dalton, though Dalton isn’t exactly a top 10 QB. But he devoted well for a while...

 

 

If I recall the bust rate for 2nd rounder QBs is really high, if I recall 75%-80%.  Dalton being on of the rare successes.  People tend to recall the successes but if you go through the number of busts in the 2nd round or later its astounding.

 

 

[OVCChairman]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yep I recall it from the RG3 thread where there was discussion about why the Bengals drafted Dalton and not Kaepernick - Jay heavily involved in that decision, recall the articles on it.

 

 

If I recall the bust rate for 2nd rounder QBs is really high, if I recall 75%-80%.  Dalton being on of the rare successes.  People tend to recall the successes but if you go through the number of busts in the 2nd round or later its astounding.

 

 

 

 

pfft... There's a Tom Brady in every draft.. you didnt know?   

 

 

There are roughly 32 picks per round in the draft (i say roughly because of compensatory picks)

 

There are 7 rounds in every draft

 

There is 1 draft every year

 

There are 32 starting QBs in the NFL

 

There are 5 ELITE QBs in the NFL

 

 

We can find a superstar in the 5th round I'm sure of it..  happens all the time. 

[clskinsfan]

16 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

pfft... There's a Tom Brady in every draft.. you didnt know?   

 

 

There are roughly 32 picks per round in the draft (i say roughly because of compensatory picks)

 

There are 7 rounds in every draft

 

There is 1 draft every year

 

There are 32 starting QBs in the NFL

 

There are 5 ELITE QBs in the NFL

 

 

We can find a superstar in the 5th round I'm sure of it..  happens all the time. 

 

I agree with you. But you definitely wont find one if you dont take the chance and draft one. I am for just sitting still and drafting the best QB available when we pick in the first round. Even if that guy sits behind Sanchez or McCoy for a year than so be it. We need a young guy with the tools to be great on this roster.

[Skinsinparadise]

12 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

pfft... There's a Tom Brady in every draft.. you didnt know?   

 

 

There are roughly 32 picks per round in the draft (i say roughly because of compensatory picks)

 

There are 7 rounds in every draft

 

There is 1 draft every year

 

There are 32 starting QBs in the NFL

 

There are 5 ELITE QBs in the NFL

 

 

We can find a superstar in the 5th round I'm sure of it..  happens all the time. 

 

Its been awhile since I digested the numbers but its amazing what a crap shoot it is.  If you grab the most highly regarded QB or 2nd your odds aren't perfect but increase but otherwise the deeper down you go in the draft your odds decrease dramatically.  But we never seem to crash hard enough to be in that position.  People recall the Russell Wilsons but forgot all the David Webbs, Jimmy Clausen, Mike Kafka, Ryan Mallet, Ricky Stanzi, Geno Smith, Mike Glennon, Matt Barkley-- on and on and on.  And yeah they all at the time had a cool narrative where you can cling onto some hope.  Hey Mallet has a cannon.  Barkley the year before he came out was talked about being a top 5 pick.  On and on

 

[OVCChairman]

Just now, clskinsfan said:

 

I agree with you. But you definitely wont find one if you dont take the chance and draft one. I am for just sitting still and drafting the best QB available when we pick in the first round. Even if that guy sits behind Sanchez or McCoy for a year than so be it. We need a young guy with the tools to be great on this roster.

 

 

I know, it was mostly tongue in cheek.  I'm all for drafting a QB early this year, if our new HC is in place.  I want a QB fit for our scheme.  Using a 1st rounder on a player this year, just because we 'need' a QB could be risky.  Not only do I feel like there wont be any QBs worth a mid 1st round pick available when we come up, but I dont want to pick an RPO style QB, just to have a new HC / OC come in and run a spread style, drop back system.  

[sempre_victrix]

14 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

It's crazy that people would rather see Johnny Football here, than Kaepernick, who actually WAS a quality starter in the league. Nuts. I won't get political, but a guy speaks up about a cause and he can't get signed. I don't care if he's a right wing nut, or a left wing nut. Other than having a voice, he's been a good citizen. Hasn't raped anyone, ala Roethlisberger. Hasn't beaten any women, had a DUI or a drug arrest. It's nuts to me that regardless of what his politics are, that Kaepernick plays the most important position in the league, is probably at least an average starter and would be cheap, and people would even consider Johnny Manziel, who has his own history of violence against women, and is both nucking futs, and ISN'T GOOD AT FOOTBALL. I love that Reuben Foster isn't too toxic with his 10k arrests this year and possible felony assault on a woman, and Kaepernick is. 

 

 

Kaepernick, as a pro, was 28-30.  In his final 2 years, he was 3-16.  He had 1 year above .500.  He'd be an expensive distraction without the payoff.

 

He all but had a contract with the Ravens, until his GF tweeted some racist insult about Ray Lewis.  He could have taken a pay cut and gotten a contract in Denver.  He wants to be in the NFL, but only under his conditions and when you're on the outside looking in, it generally doesn't work that way.  No one is telling him how to think, but pissing off a large percentage of the paying customers is rarely good for business.

[mistertim]

17 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

Isn't the one knock on Will Grier his arm? He does seem very heady. I love a guy that can read a defense, knows where to go with the ball and is accurate. I'm not sure about the arm. 

 

Grier's deep ball is actually one of my favorite parts of his game. He has outstanding touch and accuracy there. Does he have a Favre howitzer arm? No. But it's good and I think he has plenty of arm for the NFL. He's also elite under pressure; he has the highest QB grade in the country when blitzed.

 

https://247sports.com/college/west-virginia/Article/Scouts-Will-Grier-the-Best-in-College-Football-at-Two-Things-125650529/

 

Grier has read and diagnosed blitzes this year better than any other quarterback. When the defense sends extra rushers, he’s completed 85 of 124 passes for 1,303 yards and a remarkable 22 touchdowns against no interceptions. His 14 big-time throws against the blitz lead the country, as do his touchdowns — as he’s been able to find soft spots and holes in coverages despite extra blitzing defenders coming at him.

 

That being said, he still comes from a Big 12 spread offense and the history of Big 12 QBs in the NFL isn't especially inspiring. I've only recently watched more cutups of him so there's still time to find other issues, but I like what I've seen so far and he's a guy who may very well be around when we pick.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

Grier's deep ball is actually one of my favorite parts of his game. He has outstanding touch and accuracy there. Does he have a Favre howitzer arm? No. But it's good and I think he has plenty of arm for the NFL. He's also elite under pressure; he has the highest QB grade in the country when blitzed.

 

https://247sports.com/college/west-virginia/Article/Scouts-Will-Grier-the-Best-in-College-Football-at-Two-Things-125650529/

 

 

 

 

That being said, he still comes from a Big 12 spread offense and the history of Big 12 QBs in the NFL isn't especially inspiring. I've only recently watched more cutups of him so there's still time to find other issues, but I like what I've seen so far and he's a guy who may very well be around when we pick.

 

Ive watched more Grier than any of the QBs coming out in this draft and I like watching him play.  I can see Dan fall for his personality too -- he's got a swagger about him and he looks and plays even a little like Mayfield.

 

But I admit I got no idea how to translate his play against Big 12 defenses to the pros.    As for mock drafts, right now he's anywhere from top 10 to the 4th round from what I've seen so hard to tell yet where he's likely going to land.  Usually the senior bowl, combine, etc is when guys start to separate.

 

Arm strength is where he's attacked by some draft geeks, some saying he has enough, some saying he doesn't.  They usually don't attack his deep ball but say unless he can plant his feet he can't put enough mustard on the ball and sometimes you aren't going to be able to step into your throws so in those cases QBs with arm strength (lets say like Lock) can still fling it whereas Grier not so much.  I haven't really tried to fine tune a look into Grier's game myself as for analysis but like I said he's fun to watch.  The dude plays with moxie.  

 

 

 

 

[mistertim]

Haskins is really intriguing. I was just watching some cutups again today and from his first game this season to his last even an amateur like me can see big leaps in his command at the LOS, progressions, and anticipation throws. He has all the tools, but his extremely limited sample size still scares me. When was the last time a 1 year wonder college QB went on to be an NFL star? That isn't a rhetorical/sarcastic question...I honestly don't know but I can't think of any off the top of my head.

 

That being said, if he declares I don't see him getting out of the top 10 for a couple of reasons. One is his obvious talent and great skill set. The other is that this QB class is relatively weak on the top end so a guy who might be a mid-late 1st rounder in a good QB class will be much more likely to be at the top of the draft in a poor one. Someone will take a chance and pull the trigger on him high.