A New Beginning - Embrace The Noodle

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Basically Alex was playing like how you’d hope a rookie QB would play, stats wise.  What was more alarming was the happy feet, big misses and wobbly throws.  Most alarming was the fact that he’s a 13 year vet being paid like a really good 13 year vet.

 

Colt is a backup for a reason and I don’t think anyone was ever under the illusion that he’s some newly reformed guy with a new arm ready to throw for 350 a game and take us to the promise land.  The hope for me atleast was that the running game and defense would stay on par with how they were playing earlier in the season and that Colt would get more out of the passing game.

[DJHJR86]

15 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

The hope for me atleast was that the running game and defense would stay on par with how they were playing earlier in the season and that Colt would get more out of the passing game.

 

Here's a not so bold prediction.  When the defense and running game were going well, we heard the "all he does is win" argument and a sizeable portion of the fanbase said that the record was a reflection of the QB playing it safe.  These same people, if the defense and running game continue to slip, will pin that blame squarely on the QB.  

[Skinsinparadise]

18 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Basically Alex was playing like how you’d hope a rookie QB would play, stats wise.  What was more alarming was the happy feet, big misses and wobbly throws.  Most alarming was the fact that he’s a 13 year vet being paid like a really good 13 year vet.

 

Colt is a backup for a reason and I don’t think anyone was ever under the illusion that he’s some newly reformed guy with a new arm ready to throw for 350 a game and take us to the promise land.  The hope for me atleast was that the running game and defense would stay on par with how they were playing earlier in the season and that Colt would get more out of the passing game.

 

Yeah I think he played poorly and I've said on this thread if its a choice between two bad meals and we'd have to pick our poison -- I get that argument.  I'd take the bad meal that also doesn't make you throw up so to speak.  But if someone is going to package it as hey you might be missing something about that meal -- it was better than you think and heck we can live going to that restaurant eating that meal once a week -- I disagree with that.

 

But I do think the FO screw ups starting in the 2017 off season which has turned this team from having one of the better supporting casts in the NFL on offense to maybe one of the 5 worst -- has contributed to this, too. 

 

I don't think either dude are the solutions.  I get that some are more excited about Colt because he can move the ball it seems more than Alex.  But I've seen Colt in his career as a more mobile Rex.  He needs to reign it in some as for throwing into coverage.  Can he do it?  Don't know.  Will see.

[LMFAO Alex Smith]

14 hours ago, JSSkinz said:

So are you one of the crazy KC trolls?  I noticed you just joined last week and your interests listed on your homepage are "Trashlex Smith is a joke of a QB1!"

 

 

 

Not at all. I am a die hard redskins fan that is unhappy with the acquisition of smith. He is a joke of a QB1 and would've been a career backup if not for his draft pedigree. Unfortunate circumstances for him to no longer be QB1 but I am happy that he is no longer part of this team this season, I was hoping he would get benched (which he almost did), but oh well.

 

We digress from the topic. Colt is now the starter and I feel that he will give us a better shot than smith ever did. I enjoy watching the skins game now with legit shots down field and getting a good look at the type of receivers we have. Colt is far from the answer, but someone that is way more fun to watch play the game of football... aka someone who ACTUALLY can see plays past the  6 yards from the LOS.

 

Hail!

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

4 minutes ago, LMFAO Alex Smith said:

I enjoy watching the skins game now with legit shots down field and getting a good luck at the type of receivers we have

Let’s not get too carried away now.  Colt made it abundantly clear that any talk of him having a rejuvenated arm was hogwash.  We also don’t really have anyone to truly go deep at receiver anyways. 

 

My hope is more that he will consistently let the ball go on time and hit the intermediate stuff we’ve been missing most of the season.  Getting it out on time should also help with YAC.

[Llevron]

1 hour ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

Here's a not so bold prediction.  When the defense and running game were going well, we heard the "all he does is win" argument and a sizeable portion of the fanbase said that the record was a reflection of the QB playing it safe.  These same people, if the defense and running game continue to slip, will pin that blame squarely on the QB.  

 

If he keeps giving us 3 picks a game I probably will. It can be argued - and has been so we dont need to do it again - that the turnovers hurt every aspect of the game. If he limits them to almost nothing and the run/D continue to deteriorate then the same cant really be said. 

 

Fair is fair, if my argument from the beginning was "turnovers turnovers turnovers" then you should expect that to continue to be a big part of my argument. 

 

Right now all he has done is confirm it, for me. 

[CTskin]

56 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

Here's a not so bold prediction.  When the defense and running game were going well, we heard the "all he does is win" argument and a sizeable portion of the fanbase said that the record was a reflection of the QB playing it safe.  These same people, if the defense and running game continue to slip, will pin that blame squarely on the QB.  

 

You don't understand the relationship? When we were winning, our turnover differential was +12, give or take one. The pick-six vs the Texans and the -3 TO differential vs the Cowboys were main factors in our losses. I'm not doing an Alex vs Colt thing as Alex threw the pick-six, but it seems fairly obvious that safe QB play is strongly correlated to us winning.

 

Also, the effing refs. All season I'd say the refs had been fair, but between the last 4 mins of the Texans game and the whole Cowboys game, we got the red-headed stepchild treatment. I'm glad that game was on Thanksgiving for all to see. I just went to get my car emissioned (in NY) and was wearing my Skins hat and a couple of the guys started talking about the game. I said my usual "ah hey, Snyder has lowered the bar so much for me that I'm just content with playing meaningful games in November." And they went on to say how we've gotten crushed by injuries and the thanksgiving game was a joke, etc. Sure, I say the same sort of things to fans of teams who aren't doing so hot, but it was good to see that this isn't just ES shenanigans.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I certainly didn’t walk away from the Dallas game blown away by Colt and don’t expect his play to have swayed anyone on him.

 

But there should be some context to the the 3 picks he threw.  The game was there to be won even after throwing one pick.  But the defense completely folded and the game turned instantly.  The 2nd pick was on Moses tumbling over and the defender making a play.  It didn’t alarm me.  The one that alarmed me was #3.

[TradeTheBeal!]

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I certainly didn’t walk away from the Dallas game blown away by Colt and don’t expect his play to have swayed anyone on him.

 

But there should be some context to the the 3 picks he threw.  The game was there to be won even after throwing one pick.  But the defense completely folded and the game turned instantly.  The 2nd pick was on Moses tumbling over and the defender making a play.  It didn’t alarm me.  The one that alarmed me was #3.

 

Agreed.  #3 was a bad decision even with a perfect throw.  And the ball came out damn near sideways.  It was Bortles-esque.

[LMFAO Alex Smith]

27 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Let’s not get too carried away now.  Colt made it abundantly clear that any talk of him having a rejuvenated arm was hogwash.  We also don’t really have anyone to truly go deep at receiver anyways. 

 

My hope is more that he will consistently let the ball go on time and hit the intermediate stuff we’ve been missing most of the season.  Getting it out on time should also help with YAC.

 

I agree, Colt's Legendary Chad Pennington arm is still there, but what I meant as in going deep was the gunslinging mentality, not necessarily his physical attributes. We know what he is as a QB, but it is the mentality he has compared to Smith that is refreshing. I want to see a QB that tries to take the win from the defenseand will not just sit back and take what the defense gives him.

 

I am still rooting for a completely new QB come 2019, but understanding reality it will not be until 2020 when we have a QB we plan to build around.

 

The fact that we actually look forward to seeing Colt throw down field says a lot about how badly smith ruined the passing game for us this season. Never did I think I would actually WANT to see Colt starting.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

5 minutes ago, CTskin said:

 

You don't understand the relationship? When we were winning, our turnover differential was +12, give or take one. The pick-six vs the Texans and the -3 TO differential vs the Cowboys 

That +12 has a lot to do with the defense.  Of course they got 0 against Dallas and not surprisingly we lost, but only by 8 points, while we turned it over 3 times.

[CTskin]

Just now, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

That +12 has a lot to do with the defense.  Of course they got 0 against Dallas and not surprisingly we lost, but only by 8 points, while we turned it over 3 times.

 

For sure it's a combination, but if we had "safe QB play" and that TO differential vs the Cowboys was 0 instead of -3...

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, LMFAO Alex Smith said:

 

The fact that we actually look forward to seeing Colt throw down field says a lot about how badly smith ruined the passing game for us this season. Never did I think I would actually WANT to see Colt starting.

 

That's a good point, never thought we'd have so many within the fan base clamoring to see what Colt's got going.  This was the first passing defense under Jay (including even 2014) where they couldn't move the ball. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

6 minutes ago, CTskin said:

 

For sure it's a combination, but if we had "safe QB play" and that TO differential vs the Cowboys was 0 instead of -3...

How safe could Alex afford to play when the score flips like it did there?  Particularly with no ability run the ball.

 

I’d bet we lose by more than 8.

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

That's a good point, never thought we'd have so many within the fan base clamoring to see what Colt's got going.  This was the first passing defense under Jay (including even 2014) where they couldn't move the ball. 

No doubt.  

 

The clamoring for Colt said much less about Colt than it did Alex.

[CTskin]

3 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

How safe could Alex afford to play when the score flips like it did there?  Particularly with no ability run the ball.

 

I’d bet we lose by more than 8.

No doubt.  

 

I thought I made it pretty clear that I wasn't comparing QBs in my original post...

 

Don't play the hypothetical game especially when Alex already beat the Cowboys this year. Now stop making me stand up for him.

[LMFAO Alex Smith]

2 minutes ago, CTskin said:

 

I thought I made it pretty clear that I wasn't comparing QBs in my original post...

 

Don't play the hypothetical game especially when Alex already beat the Cowboys this year. Now stop making me stand up for him.

 

 

Well you got to stand up for him, because he sure cannot do that on his own...

 

 

😂

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

29 minutes ago, CTskin said:

 

I thought I made it pretty clear that I wasn't comparing QBs in my original post...

 

Don't play the hypothetical game especially when Alex already beat the Cowboys this year. Now stop making me stand up for him.

 

I thought you made it pretty clear by saying safe QB, you were referring to Alex.

 

Vast differences between the two games against Dallas, outside of the QB so I’m not sure how saying that Alex himself beat them is relevant.

[NoCalMike]

For argument's sake, we will have to wait until the end of the season to see Colt's body of work for a better comparison of how the offense looks different with him as QB.  All things will have to be taken into account like, are they scoring more points, is the passing game getting significantly better, turnovers, 3rd down conversions etc etc etc......

 

For the first 9 games, despite the running game & defense playing well (actually, only in some of the those nine games) it's not like they were running teams out of the building, besides the Saints game, the other games were all close.  If you have Colt starting those games, all things considered, does it mean they win those games by more points or lose a couple more because of Colt's propensity to turn the ball over?

 

It's a hard call to make really, especially right now since Colt's 2018 sample size is small.  He will have had 10+ days to prepare for Philly, so that game might give us a better look at what Colt's outlook will be for the rest of the season.

 

For me, where I am at right now is that neither Smith or Colt are the kind of QB's that changes the team's DNA, their play is heavily reliant on those around them.  The biggest difference to me is that Smith has a resume to at least show that when you build a strong offense around him he can be very successful, where Colt has shown.....that he is a backup for a reason once his playing time becomes extended.  Maybe that will look different for the final month of 2018? I sure hope so.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I do think Colt can move the ball better than Alex. Seems like his teammates hint at the same.  More decisive, gets the ball out quicker, throws with more anticipation, throws more balls that give them chances, etc.  Question is can he bury his Rex like tendencies?  

 

 

Great post...

 

I do agree that it's evident Colt can move the ball much better through the air. I just wonder with THIS TEAM if Alex's approach wasn't the better fit. Like you said, sometimes it was painful to watch, but it really seems that those 7-play, 27-yard, 4:46 drives benefited the defense. Consistently putting that defense on a longer field AND well-rested may have been the 2018 Redskins secret sauce for being 6-3. 

 

I can't prove it, but the only game we didn't force a turnover so far is the only game Smith hasn't started. That COULD certainly be a coincidence, but it could also be related to the fact that we turned the ball over 3 times and didn't always make Dallas start inside their 20. 

 

I'll put it this way...I've seen too much evidence now that makes me think there's SOMETHING intangible to what Smith does. Unless he's just the most fortunate QB ever to play the game, his style really might elevate his team's defense because the games are shortened and the fields are lengthened. There's a difference between being out there for 7 drives where the opponent has to go an average of 78 yards vs. 10 drives where the opponent has to go an average of 65 yards. 

 

Note - I completely made those numbers up, but they're notional based on short fields, turnovers, etc. 

 

 

[Llevron]

24 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

I'll put it this way...I've seen too much evidence now that makes me think there's SOMETHING intangible to what Smith does. Unless he's just the most fortunate QB ever to play the game, his style really might elevate his team's defense because the games are shortened and the fields are lengthened. There's a difference between being out there for 7 drives where the opponent has to go an average of 78 yards vs. 10 drives where the opponent has to go an average of 65 yards. 

 

Note - I completely made those numbers up, but they're notional based on short fields, turnovers, etc. 

 

It's not intangible. There is qualified, provable evidence that any defense will work better when rested, with longer fields and when defending less plays a game. Not turning the ball over helps with all of that. 

 

Example. Best part of our defense if the line play. We got hella fat boys. They play better when they have short drives and play less minutes, verses playing long, 10-15 play drives that soak up the clock. 10-15 play drive for a score followed by our offense having a 3 and out or turnover leads to fat boys being gassed and on the field. Leads to big running lanes and more time for QBs. Leads to big shots down the field. Leads to hella points and wtf happened to our defense posts. 

 

Literally any coach will tell you this is a ****ing fact. This is why they like a rotation on the line if the talent level is there. Keep fat boys hands in the dirt instead of on their hips and your defense is much better. It's how we were winning games. With defense. And less turnovers help that. 

 

Think about this. Dallas beat us with two huge plays pretty much. Imagine if they never got the chance to make them? Or even more realisticly, if they had 20 less plays offensively in the game. That's alot of juice left in the tank for those big boys to get a sac or for the D backs not to **** it up again. 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

@Llevron you summarized my opinion, I was just trying to be less adamant about it. I just don't think it's pure luck that winning records and decent defense follow Smith around everywhere he goes. No one is THAT lucky. 

[Why am I Mr. Pink?]

Colt is like a very poor mans Kirk to me. 

 

Relies heavily on pre-snap reads and can get the ball out on time. Problem is he tends to stick with his pre-snap read and doesnt read disguised coverages well, like a LB or DE dropping back in zone underneath.

 

If Colt's pre snap reads = good post snap reads = offense is rolling on time and schedule. But I think defenses know this, know the can show a hand pre-snap, let Colt take the bait then switch up the coverage post snap to get an int.

 

AP slowing down as well .... could really use a Chris Thompson right now. Someone easy to get the ball to in space and let him try and work it. Low risk plays.

 

[Llevron]

2 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

@Llevron you summarized my opinion, I was just trying to be less adamant about it. I just don't think it's pure luck that winning records and decent defense follow Smith around everywhere he goes. No one is THAT lucky. 

 

Agree. Also how did you like your own post? Iol

[theTruthTeller]

I've been watching this thread carefully, because figuring out whether Colt is better than Alex is pretty important right now given that Alex can't even work out for another 8 months.  Anyway, my two cents:

Kirk is clearly the starter over Colt in 2017 - I think there is unanimity on that decision.

Alex is an upgrade over Kirk, according to BA and a lot of the posters here.

Colt is even better than Alex, say the receivers and coaching staff.

Someone remind me, why did they tag Kirk twice and trade for Alex?

 

I've been following football since Norm Snead was the QB.  One thing I know for sure is that bad things can happen during the season.  I'm cool with giving Colt a chance to succeed, but I also realize that, as many have stated, the offensive downhill turn had already happened before Colt played a down.  Starting with the Panthers, Alex would only have one game that he passed for over 200 yards.  And the running game wasn't picking up the slack.  Colt isn't killing the offense, he's just putting it out of its misery.

 

I like Colt as a backup to come in and hold a lead or mount a comeback.  Most teams don't have someone like Colt.  But he's just not good enough to be a starter.  He knows that - if he thought he had a shot of starting, there were plenty of QB-needy teams he could have signed with and competed for a starting position.  Instead he re-signed with the Skins twice with contracts with an escape clause if he became a starter.

 

I'm a big boy and I can accept that we're not likely to do well the rest of the season.  Our offense sucks eggs.  Our receivers suck.  Our running backs are on the path to sucking.  Our OL sucks.  (Our punter, however, is sensational)  Our defense has its bright spots, but lacks cohesiveness and is prone to big blunders.  But I can live with that - we're a work in progress, or maybe we're treading water in a sea of mediocrity.  I'm just tired of being fed **** soup by the front office every time something bad happens.  Just say "we'll miss Alex and we wish him the very best in his recovery".  Refrain from doing or saying anything stupid and just play football.  If Colt gets beat up too badly (I am predicting eight sacks on Monday night - you heard it here first), let Sanchez have a shot.  He's not going to take a team without receivers to the Super Bowl, but his incompetence is greatly exaggerated.  Maybe he can win a couple games against NY. 

 

And don't let anything to do with the Redskins ruin your life.  It's a wonderful world and if you don't find happiness in one place, look in another!

 

Happy holidays everyone!

[TD_washingtonredskins]

15 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

Agree. Also how did you like your own post? Iol

Did I?