A New Beginning - Embrace The Noodle

[NoCalMike]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

Any change, or break from tendency (without being forced into it) would be a welcome sight.  I don’t count going no huddle when you’re down 3 scores, for example.

 

Not to mention this offense features way too many situational players and circumstances that to me would tip off a defense.  Ryan Anderson as fullback.  Reed subbing out if it is a run play.  Things like that, make it easy on a defense to prepare, unless you start faking some of that stuff to confuse the defenses.

 

I feel like the Reed-Davis-Sprinkle trio could be much more productive in the right hands. 

 

Also as far as the Alex vs. Colt thing.  It's not like the coaches haven't seen Colt in practices since their tenure began.  I don't see this convincing argument that the coaches secretly thought Colt could be the man if he was just forcibly given the keys to the car.  Coaches speak nice about him probably because he fits his role as the back up well. 

 

We'll see what Colt can do with 10+ days to prepare for Philly. 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

7 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

 

 

Also as far as the Alex vs. Colt thing.  It's not like the coaches haven't seen Colt in practices since their tenure began.  I don't see this convincing argument that the coaches secretly thought Colt could be the man if he was just forcibly given the keys to the car.  Coaches speak nice about him probably because he fits his role as the back up well. 

 

 

 

If so Jay did a good job lying to a lot of people and that's not his style.  According to Peter Schaffer from NFL Am, even McVay talked up McCoy to him last week and how highly the coaching staff thinks of him including Jay.  The fear supposedly about Colt is his injury history.  But just about every person who writes about the team has talked about how much Jay thinks of Colt.   This is coming from me who is one of Colt's biggest critics as for him being starter material (I like him though as a backup), I never bought into that hype but at the same time I knew it existed, it was hard to ignore.  I even got into an argument on twitter with a WP reporter who wrote about it where he was trying to convince me that Colt is much better now citing practices he's watched.  But the lynchpin of those discussions was how much the coaching staff thinks of Colt's abilities.  And by that I don't mean boiler plate public coach speak/praise - I mean the private stuff that certain beat guys who are typically reliable on have talked about. 

 

As for the Alex comparison -- some of the same people said Jay was excited about Alex, they thought Alex's 2017 season was the new norm, big time off season hype and optimism but to quote some of what they said they are hearing from the coaching staff about Alex lately: "very disappointed", Finlay goes don't believe what they are saying publicly about him because privately "they are pulling their hair out" about him.   In the off season, it was clearly the reverse, a lot of hype from the coaching staff about Alex.  It looks to have gone 180.  Even if people don't want to buy into the coaching staff isn't in love with the Alex narrative now that they've seen him play -- just think about the Alex's predecessor's comment from last year where he said if he played the way Jay wanted him to he'd have 30 interceptions and Jay responded with yeah but he'd throw for 80 TDs. 

 

So somehow Jay has gone for a 180 transformation and just really loves himself really conservative QB play?  I really doubt it.  So I believe Keim (who is almost always dead on correct), Hoffman and Finlay that they aren't pleased with what they've seen with Alex.  I do think part of Colt throwing the ball like mad against Dallas had something to do with proving a point.  It didn't work though and that didn't surprise me.   I've never gotten the Colt love from the coaching staff but at the same time I didn't think they were all making it up -- it was too prevalent from too many sources.  But like I said I do think at least someone prominent in the FO didn't buy into or was worried about injuries or both -- I would guess that was Kevin O'Connell because I read an article that he was the dude tasked at looking at other options when our QB at the time looked to be headed out.

 

With Alex, I think the PR side of the issue might be a problem if the team struggles to put fans in the stands next year and lets say Alex is looking to come back mid season 2019 or 2020.  It's also clearly gone a 180 with fans, too -- we got here maybe 5 or 6 people selling Alex on the board and not even that strongly -- you got from what I observed maybe the same number of people on twitter.   In the off season, there were a sea (especially on twitter) of he's our QB comments.   That's mostly disappeared.  Now should PR dictate personnel moves?  Nope.  But I don't know if we are going to have a more desperate Dan next year if the fan apathy thing continues. 

 

Edit:  Mark Garafalo just now on NFL Network, their fall back position if they didn't get Alex Smith was that Colt would be the starter.  

 

Do I get the impression they liked Colt over Alex in the off season.  No.  But did they think the dude could be a decent starter in the NFL, yes.  Personally I think they are wrong.  But will see.  Obviously, they see him in practice, I don't. They are the expects.   So I'll give it a chance. 😀

[Captain James]

22 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

If going to use this silly stat that got steam from media and now has become an indictment on Alex, couldn’t it be used as a positive for not relinquishing a lead as well? I don’t care for the stat, just making point it goes both ways. 

Similar to Andrew Luck lol. He's the greatest "Comeback King" in all of sports history! Except that he has been a turnover machine and the reason for the necessary comebacks. Not knocking the dude btw. Luck is a solid QB.

[Captain James]

17 hours ago, profusion said:

This team is going to be wildly up and down all year. No consistency.

It's like our recent win streak made people forget our "Jekyll and Hyde" tendencies. Stick to the script people!

[wit33]

@Skinsinparadise

 

I don’t doubt coaching staff was “pulling their hair out” (love these buzzword click bait sayings lol) at times, but isn’t it possible to be frustrated and value Alex’s play while continuing to mesh? 

 

 

 

[Est.1974]

Without defending any mediocre QB play, I do think we felt that by drafting Guice, signing Richardson, plus having CT25 in the fold, we would have a workable structure to the offense around Smith at QB. Same probably applied to Colt.

 

Now injuries did pull the rug from that, but that should detract from the justified criticism of both our QB play, and coaching in my opinion.

[Skinsinparadise]

32 minutes ago, wit33 said:

@Skinsinparadise

 

I don’t doubt coaching staff was “pulling their hair out” (love these buzzword click bait sayings lol) at times, but isn’t it possible to be frustrated and value Alex’s play while continuing to mesh? 

 

 

 

 

I gather you want to believe it to be true.  I recall having the feeling about other subjects with this team -- it feels good when the coaching staff/FO feels the same way you do.  But, alas, it doesn't always happen for us, I didn't love what I was hearing either about the contract negotiation last year and about the Scot departure.  But I am not dense where I can't follow a general description including "nuance" even when it doesn't fit my thoughts.  And yeah I got no doubt based on what I've heard and in different variations from three different beat guys that they are not pleased with Alex Smith and surprised about how poorly's played -- not like an average to good QB like you described but instead a poor to average QB.    

 

The nicest descriptions in the soup about Alex was they love the person and they think-hope he can get better.  So piecing it together the best I can, when it comes to "intangibles" they buy into his personality version of it.  But no I don't get the impression that they are in love or even in like with the hey he doesn't move the ball but doesn't turn the ball over narrative.  Like I said even if you don't want to believe that just think about Jay's previous comments about wanting more aggression from the previous QB -- you really think this late in his career he's gone through some 180 metamorphosis where he wants an even more conservative QB?   Andy Benoit ironically nailed it saying in the off season that studying Jay's style, Alex's style will ultimate clash and drive Jay crazy.

 

I got no doubt at least based on what I've heard that they don't see Alex Smith the way you do.   But, they actually saw him actually in an even better light than you did in the off season (they were very high then and excited) but they became disenchanted by his play this season.  And that's without me even delving into the Paulsen comment about him talking to a FO guy saying they are concerned about how the injury is going to effect him as a player moving forward.

 

Having said that, there is a lot of talk about Colt behind the scenes too over the years.  So if the dude doesn't perform they are in a pickle behind the scenes with Dan I'd presume, so I think in that case they almost have to in that case sell him on Alex all over again.  So I wouldn't be surprised if the narrative changes if Colt doesn't perform.  So to your point in another post to me that the point of view might change -- I could see that, maybe.  They would almost be forced to go back and sell that narrative if Colt doesn't perform.  They'd be boxed in to do so.  

[skins island connection]

12 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

Without defending any mediocre QB play, I do think we felt that by drafting Guice, signing Richardson, plus having CT25 in the fold, we would have a workable structure to the offense around Smith at QB. Same probably applied to Colt.

 

Now injuries did pull the rug from that, but that should detract from the justified criticism of both our QB play, and coaching in my opinion.

 

 Well, Richardson hasn't done anything to write home about, he's slower and the catches he did make were close to being contested by a DB, so he wasn't getting separation.

Honestly I don't think this team does much of anything; I think the Dallas game was the beginning of their downward trek, and the MN game against the Eagles will be a death blow blow-out. Colt will be able to move the ball, but with Jay calling plays this team isn't going anywhere, and the once- pretty good defense has been figured out.

[Skinsinparadise]

23 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

Without defending any mediocre QB play, I do think we felt that by drafting Guice, signing Richardson, plus having CT25 in the fold, we would have a workable structure to the offense around Smith at QB. Same probably applied to Colt.

 

Now injuries did pull the rug from that, but that should detract from the justified criticism of both our QB play, and coaching in my opinion.

 

I do think if Chris Thompson comes back and is right he's potentially a game changer for either QB.  I liked the Richardson signing.  And I also like Doctson better than most.  And am excited about Quinn.  But they are missing IMO either a true #1 receiver or just a killer burner receiver like D. Jax, Tyreek Hill. I wanted D. Jax back -- supposedly so did Jay.

 

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 hour ago, wit33 said:

@Skinsinparadise

 

I don’t doubt coaching staff was “pulling their hair out” (love these buzzword click bait sayings lol) at times, but isn’t it possible to be frustrated and value Alex’s play while continuing to mesh? 

If using sayings like “pulling their hair out” is clickbait then why isn’t it more highly publicized?  You act as if JP Finlay and the gang are taking out full page ads in the Post in an attempt to sell negativity on Alex Smith.  What SIP is talking about is what’s been said on everyday, run of the mill, appearances on radio.  Never once have I heard it and thought he was going for some juicy take to bump his credibility.  JP was actually cheerleading the Alex Smith deal right after it was announced, so it’s not like he has some axe to grind.  I hardly think saying what most everyone inherently knows is done in an effort to build buzz.

 

I’d imagine they were originally just frustrated with his play but believed it would get better.  After several weeks, frustration can grow into disdain.

[Skinsinparadise]

23 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

If using sayings like “pulling their hair out” is clickbait then why isn’t it more highly publicized?  You act as if JP Finlay and the gang are taking out full page ads in the Post in an attempt to sell negativity on Alex Smith.  

 

Yeah if I recall that specific quote was from Sheehan's podcast, Finlay makes a weekly appearance.  This stuff is popping in interviews not articles.  ditto Hoffman and Keim.    These guys if anything tend to be more conservative in what they write since they if anything don't want to be perceived as click bait driven or get in trouble with their sources.  It's usually easier to go under the radar on the radio especially if its a free association type of conversation.  Cooley used to get away with a lot on that front until Steinberg realized who much milage he could get by click baiting Cooley's words himself.   It was ditto last year with the contract negotiation, the juiciest stuff I thought came out in the interviews where these guys just talked freely versus what they actually wrote.

 

And like I said on that count its a 180 because these type of reports in the off season were the converse of this -- with these guys talked about all the gushing about Alex they kept hearing from the FO and coaching staff.  I found all of that over the top and nauseating myself but tough to ignore the off season infatuation with the new toy -- it wasn't just with the fans but it was the coaching staff and front office too and maybe that's what egged on the hype some with the fans.

But its not hard to see that its basically out the window now with both the coaching staff and most of the fans.  But it should be interesting like I said because there is a competing narrative with Colt, too.  He's another dude who is a great guy and the players love and the coaching staff is excited about albeit not to the same extent as the off season Alex hype.   But if Colt doesn't pan out what happens next?  And if Dan feels the need to sell a narrative to the fans because of poor attendance at Fed Ex.  I presume you got to sell something.  I think the Alex is a winner sell might be a tough sell with the fans.  But maybe easier if Colt is a disaster.  But will see.  Should be fascinating albeit perhaps sad.

[RedskinsLegacy]

51 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I do think if Chris Thompson comes back and is right he's potentially a game changer for either QB.  I liked the Richardson signing.  And I also like Doctson better than most.  And am excited about Quinn.  But they are missing IMO either a true #1 receiver or just a killer burner receiver like D. Jax, Tyreek Hill. I wanted D. Jax back -- supposedly so did Jay.

 

That's a fact Skinsparadise, and Colt is doing pretty well considering he hasn't practiced a day with this offense, hasn't played in years, playing behind a make shift line missing major starters. He moved our offense against 2 very good defenses under these circumstances and now has that chance to gel with this offense and get in sync, as well as CT and Crowder returning sooner or later. This is his chance to shine in front of the world with this division and playoffs in site, they will be the deciding factor to him starting next season. I think we will be fine on offense and I don't care if he throws 2 picks a game, as long as he keeps getting us into the end zone and putting up 25-30 points a game. Which he would have done in Dallas if he didn't have to play against an 18 man defense, 11 cowboys and 7 refs.

[Mooka]

1 minute ago, RedskinsLegacy said:

 This is his chance to shine in front of the world with this division and playoffs in site, they will be the deciding factor to him starting next season.

 

The confidence of Redskins nation just sky-rocketed.

 

[wit33]

48 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I gather you want to believe it to be true.  I recall having the feeling about other subjects with this team -- it feels good when the coaching staff/FO feels the same way you do.  But, alas, it doesn't always happen for us, I didn't love what I was hearing either about the contract negotiation last year and about the Scot departure.  But I am not dense where I can't follow a general description including "nuance" even when it doesn't fit my thoughts.  And yeah I got no doubt based on what I've heard and in different variations from three different beat guys that they are not pleased with Alex Smith and surprised about how poorly's played -- not like an average to good QB like you described but instead a poor to average QB.    

 

Can careless if staff or organizations aligns with my thoughts, as we all know much of what the fans get is lip service. So not much value there. 

 

All I’m saying is potentially Jay and staff were frustrated with Smith missing things, but also saw value in other areas. I agree Alex was below average (mediocre can be used here if you like as well), average, and above average in different games. You wouldn’t even get an argument from me that he was playing like a guy deserving 7 or 8% of the cap, not 10%. 

 

Quote

 

I got no doubt at least based on what I've heard that they don't see Alex Smith the way you do.   But, they actually saw him actually in an even better light than you did in the off season (they were very high then and excited) but they became disenchanted by his play this season.  And that's without me even delving into the Paulsen comment about him talking to a FO guy saying they are concerned about how the injury is going to effect him as a player moving forward.

 

Ya, I was no particular fan of Alex’s in previous years, but he fit “my” win now mode for season. I was okay about giving 10% of the cap, but not thrilled. A middle ground. 

 

The talk of disenchantment of Smith’s play or whatever else gets said, is par the course for QBs 10-23. That’s the norm for these guys. Beloved in some years and not so much in others. 

 

I agree, the Smith stock has plummeted after his injury. Don’t like the prospects of him overcoming this injury mentally. He was already skittish in the pocket. 

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, RedskinsLegacy said:

That's a fact Skinsparadise, and Colt is doing pretty well considering he hasn't practiced a day with this offense, hasn't played in years, playing behind a make shift line missing major starters. He moved our offense against 2 very good defenses under these circumstances and now has that chance to gel with this offense and get in sync, as well as CT and Crowder returning sooner or later. This is his chance to shine in front of the world with this division and playoffs in site, they will be the deciding factor to him starting next season. I think we will be fine on offense and I don't care if he throws 2 picks a game, as long as he keeps getting us into the end zone and putting up 25-30 points a game. Which he would have done in Dallas if he didn't have to play against an 18 man defense, 11 cowboys and 7 refs.

 

I've been a skeptic of Colt as a starter.  But its hard not to get a little excited about the coaches excitement -- because hey you never know they could be right.  the game against Dallas was the perfect storm -- no practice, short week, the first game in the last 14 where the defense didn't cause a turnover, no running game and the Dallas defense is killer good.  Next week should be easier.  My mind is open.  Will see.

[desertbeagle85]

Listen there wasn't any teams calling to trade for Colt. Colt couldn't beat Smith or Cousins. Colt is a backup and that's it. He's a good backup but still a backup. Can he win some games coming up of course he can. He isn't the answer though and either is Smith for that matter. So what does that leave us.

 

Screwed 

[wit33]

25 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

If using sayings like “pulling their hair out” is clickbait then why isn’t it more highly publicized?  You act as if JP Finlay and the gang are taking out full page ads in the Post in an attempt to sell negativity on Alex Smith.  What SIP is talking about is what’s been said on everyday, run of the mill, appearances on radio.  Never once have I heard it and thought he was going for some juicy take to bump his credibility.  JP was actually cheerleading the Alex Smith deal right after it was announced, so it’s not like he has some axe to grind.  I hardly think saying what most everyone inherently knows is done in an effort to build buzz.

 

I’d imagine they were originally just frustrated with his play but believed it would get better.  After several weeks, frustration can grow into disdain.

 

If winning wasn’t taking place I can get with “disdain” maybe, but seems a bit harsh at 6-3, especially when factoring the rash of injuries to skill players and average talent.

 

JP was actually coming around to value of Smith. No axe to grind, I agree.  

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

Can careless if staff or organizations aligns with my thoughts,

 

I care about it related to the topic in this way.  I trust Jay's opinion about his own offense and how the dude is operating it.   My thoughts don't always align with what Jay does or what I hear Jay thinks.  On this issue specifically, I was curious about what Jay thought about Alex considering how high he supposedly was in the off season about him -- i found it interesting that he did a 180 on that front.  And since he's the decision maker here, his thoughts about this are obviously very relevant. 

 

2 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

Ya, I was no particular fan of Alex’s in previous years, but he fit “my” win now mode for season. I was okay about giving 10% of the cap, but not thrilled. A middle ground. 

 

My position changed on this.  My initial position was he is a good QB but not good enough to offset this roster to justify acquiring a mid 30s QB.  I wanted to go young.  I said so before they made the trade for Alex.  

 

I was pretty solidly in the camp that Alex was good.  But also pretty solid in that I don't buy a narrative that 39 is the new 29 (hyperbole to make a point).  I even recall talking about the problem with QBs at that age mentioning they don't always heal as well or as quick.  Ironically what helped frame that opinion was talking to my son's doctor about his ability to heal and she told me its much easier the younger you are, so he should heal faster -- adding to that irony is my son's injury was him healing from the exact same broken bones that Alex now has to recover from. 

 

But anyway over the course of the season, my take changed that from Alex being a good QB to him being mediocre at best and at one point I thought it was him holding back a more talented roster (so that was a 180 flip from me from the off season) but now as the season progresses, I am wondering again actually about how good this roster really is -- not as sold on it now as I was sold a month ago.  I am back to being agnostic on it.

 

But I am feeling worse about the QB position moving forward (I've never been a Colt guy and a healthy Alex didn't impress me let alone thinking about the banged up version of him coming back).  And I've seen my son try to come back from a milder version of the same thing Alex will attempt to come back from and based on that I am not convinced the dude will come back next season but if he does I think he likely will play more gingerly and it will take him time to readjust to plant on that foot.  That's based on witnessing my son's physical therapy on this. Although everybody heals differently so you never know.

 

 

 

2 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

The talk of disenchantment of Smith’s play or whatever else gets said, is par the course for QBs 10-23. That’s the norm for these guys. Beloved in some years and not so much in others. 

 

 

If I recall in other posts it was 8-24?  But 10-23 to me is still too broad IMO to lump QBs.  I'd put Alex as to how he played this year in the 20-24 range.  The difference to me among other things is that QBs in the 8-15 range CAN win a game where the passing game takes the lead to make it happen.   They don't do it a lot but on occasion at least.  For EVERY Qb its easier to win when their defense and or running game has a great game -- especially when the defense creates turnovers.   So I am always a fan of other units playing well to make it easier.  But sometimes a Russell Wilson, Cam Newton, Carson Wentz or name that Qb in the 8-15 range can be the prime reason why their team wins versus being purely the gravy and the guy who doesn't spoil the fun for everyone else.

[Skinsinparadise]

28 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

If winning wasn’t taking place I can get with “disdain” maybe, but seems a bit harsh at 6-3, especially when factoring the rash of injuries to skill players and average talent.

 

 

I think you lose some people with the 6-3 stuff. 

 

Alex was playing into the 3rd quarter of that game.  He had a 26.8 QBR rating, 29 QB rating in that game -- wretched doesn't sum up what those scores mean.  They were losing by 10 points.  Supposedly, we win in large part because Alex doesn't throw interceptions -- but lets make an exception to that point here and give him an out when Alex threw 2 INTs because we all know in that case those interceptions wouldn't have lost them the game just because just because...and I'd add no comebacks this year from a deficit but that game would have been different just because just because....

 

Labeling Alex 6-3 comes off like you want to win an argument versus have a discussion.  

33 minutes ago, desertbeagle85 said:

Listen there wasn't any teams calling to trade for Colt. Colt couldn't beat Smith or Cousins. Colt is a backup and that's it. He's a good backup but still a backup. Can he win some games coming up of course he can. He isn't the answer though and either is Smith for that matter. So what does that leave us.

 

Screwed 

 

I does look this way.  My only difference is I'll give Colt a larger sample size.   But based on what he's been in his career, he deserves that backup status.  But some are saying he's different now.  Didn't look that way against Dallas.  But that was a tough road that game.  So my take is lets see what happens next.

[Tsailand]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

lets see what happens next.

 

They have 11 days to prepare for the Eagles.  Colt should look better next time.

[Koolblue13]

That mother****er has been here riding pine for 4 years and you people want to complain he had a short week of practice? That's he does. 4 ****ing years. Gimme a break. Oh, but hes not usually with the first team, right? Everyone else starting for us right now is a back up too. Reed and Doctson are starters and had great games. McCoy blows ass.

[Skinsinparadise]

29 minutes ago, Tsailand said:

 

They have 11 days to prepare for the Eagles.  Colt should look better next time.

Agree that he should especially watching the Eagles game right now. Their defense is banged up.  Eli so far is moving the ball against them with ease.

 

Dallas' defense is insanely good.

 

Having said that, I've never been sold on Colt and worried about him and this team on the big stage on MNF.

 

Is there a worst team in NFL history on MNF? I'd be surprised.

[RedskinsLegacy]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I've been a skeptic of Colt as a starter.  But its hard not to get a little excited about the coaches excitement -- because hey you never know they could be right.  the game against Dallas was the perfect storm -- no practice, short week, the first game in the last 14 where the defense didn't cause a turnover, no running game and the Dallas defense is killer good.  Next week should be easier.  My mind is open.  Will see.

Are you watching the Giants punish the Eagles? AP can have a field day against that beat up defense.

 

[RedskinsLegacy]

2 hours ago, Mooka said:

 

The confidence of Redskins nation just sky-rocketed.

 

Lmao Mooka, considering Drew Brees isn't signing for us next year, I just don't see any other options. Right now or next year, nobody is coming in here who knows this offense better than Colt, he better deliver. After watching Philly's sorry beat up defense, Monday nights his chance to shine.

[JSSkinz]

Panthers lost so we are the 6th playoff seed going into next week.