247Sports: Josh Norman benched during Redskins' blowout loss

[NoCalMike]

Thomas was smart, in constantly, on multiple plays getting that quick push in on Norman right after the play, so that if Norman ever decided to push him back that would be the push that gets noticed and flagged.  Reminds of Finnegan who would constantly try to get in shoves after the play hoping to get shoved back once the official was actually paying attention.

 

Defenders have to be smarter then that, and understand what the WR is trying to do.

[JoeJacobyHOForRIOT]

I don't know why anyone would hate on Norman. Sometimes i feel like i am watching a different game then everyone else. I could understand people being frustrated that Norman is not getting more interceptions, but to me the guy has been solid as hell. Unless people are comparing dollars to production which at that point becomes quite idiotic as a solid cover corner is so hard to find.

 

As far as Gruden benching Norman, do we even need a discussion to agree that it was a beyond idiotic decision. When Norman came out of that game **** started to get REAL UGLY .  

[megared]

16 minutes ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said:

I don't know why anyone would hate on Norman. Sometimes i feel like i am watching a different game then everyone else. I could understand people being frustrated that Norman is not getting more interceptions, but to me the guy has been solid as hell. Unless people are comparing dollars to production which at that point becomes quite idiotic as a solid cover corner is so hard to find.

 

As far as Gruden benching Norman, do we even need a discussion to agree that it was a beyond idiotic decision. When Norman came out of that game **** started to get REAL UGLY .  

 

-QBs have a near perfect passer rating against him this season.

-2nd straight game he either didn't understand his responsibility, or abandoned it resulting in a long passing TD.

-He's becoming more of a liability than an asset to this defense.

 

And if you're going to take those kind of risks, you'd better be making game changing plays to justify trusting your instincts.  Norman hasn't.  His most notable plays this season have consisted of him bearing down on screen passes.  Not only will he not be worth the money he's set to make next year, he isn't currently justifying it now. 

 

Stroman at least understood where he was supposed to be and just got beat.  Anybody watching that game knew us being down 13 points at halftime was an insurmountable lead for this offense.  The Saints offense, outside of 1 fumble, scored TDs on every possession, until they were content to milk the clock.  

 

 

[JoeJacobyHOForRIOT]

6 minutes ago, megared said:

 

-QBs have a near perfect passer rating against him this season.

-2nd straight game he either didn't understand his responsibility, or abandoned it resulting in a long passing TD.

-He's becoming more of a liability than an asset to this defense.

 

And if you're going to take those kind of risks, you'd better be making game changing plays to justify trusting your instincts.  Norman hasn't.  His most notable plays this season have consisted of him bearing down on screen passes.  Not only will he not be worth the money he's set to make next year, he isn't currently justifying it now. 

 

Stroman at least understood where he was supposed to be and just got beat.  Anybody watching that game knew us being down 13 points at halftime was an insurmountable lead for this offense.  The Saints offense, outside of 1 fumble, scored TDs on every possession, until they were content to milk the clock.  

 

 

Stroman ? STROMAN?! I can't even take anything you said before that seriously after reading you campaigning for STROMAN, Did you even see him get absolute SMOKED by a Saints 3 string WR ?! I swear i feel like I'm watching a different games then everyone else.

[megared]

4 minutes ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said:

Stroman ? STROMAN?! I can't even take anything you said before that seriously after reading you campaigning for STROMAN, Did you even see him get absolute SMOKED by a Saints 3 string WR ?! I swear i feel like I'm watching a different games then everyone else.

 

At least he didn't stand flat footed while Brees completed a 62 yard TD on his responsibility.  Let's face it, this defense got blown away with Norman on the field for all but one series.  Would it really have been worse had Norman been benched?  Norman was easily one of our weakest links in the secondary.   

 

Stop being star struck by a name.  Just because you pay a guy a lot of money, doesn't make him a 'shut down' corner.  Who exactly has Norman shut down???

 

I'm campaigning for accountability.  Don't care who lines up there, as long as it isn't Norman disregarding his responsibilities.

[JoeJacobyHOForRIOT]

6 minutes ago, megared said:

 

At least he didn't stand flat footed while Brees completed a 62 yard TD on his responsibility.  Let's face it, this defense got blown away with Norman on the field for all but one series.  Would it really have been worse had Norman been benched?  Norman was easily one of our weakest links in the secondary.   

 

Stop being star struck by a name.  Just because you pay a guy a lot of money, doesn't make him a 'shut down' corner.  Who exactly has Norman shut down???

Its called blown coverage and it happens all the time, mistakes are made. Big difference between making a mistake on one play and not being able to cover a teams #5 WR and trailing him by 3 yards on a go route. You must be kidding, Norman has been nothing but solid since he has gotten here, you people act like he is getting smoked up and down the field on a regular basis like Breeland and Amerson were when they were here. You people amaze me on this board, First you wanted the best QB we have in 20 years gone and now you are want the best Cover CB we have had in a long time put on the bench. Who's next ? You will be calling for Trent Williams ?

[skinsfan834]

4 minutes ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said:

Its called blown coverage and it happens all the time, mistakes are made. Big difference between making a mistake on one play and not being able to cover a teams #5 WR and trailing him by 3 yards on a go route. You must be kidding, Norman has been nothing but solid since he has gotten here, you people act like he is getting smoked up and down the field on a regular basis like Breeland and Amerson were when they were here. You people amaze me on this board, First you wanted the best QB we have in 20 years gone and now you are want the best Cover CB we have had in a long time put on the bench. Who's next ? You will be calling for Trent Williams ?

 

We also didn't pay him the highest salary for a CB in the NFL to be 'solid'. Whether it was actually worth paying him all that money, that is a whole different story...

 

I have no problem with the benching. A statement needed to be made -- might as well go after the guy who is clearly under performing the expectations we have set for him. 

[RandyHolt]

2 hours ago, megared said:

 

Gruden should've benched him the entire 2nd half.   Either he didn't know his responsibilities,  or he abandoned them for the second straight game, resulting in a coverage breakdown.   You can't be a leader on defense,  doing that.  

 

Nothing we were doing was working defensively when he was in the game. Realistically Brees would've just carved the defense elsewhere.   

 

Gruden could have benched himself as well.

 

I would like to see someone else call plays in the 2nd half, in games where our offense was grounded in the first half.

[megared]

1 minute ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said:

Its called blown coverage and it happens all the time, mistakes are made. Big difference between making a mistake on one play and not being able to cover a teams #5 WR and trailing him by 3 yards on a go route. You must be kidding, Norman has been nothing but solid since he has gotten here, you people act like he is getting smoked up and down the field on a regular basis like Breeland and Amerson were when they were here. You people amaze me on this board, First you wanted the best QB we have in 20 years gone and now you are want the best Cover CB we have had in a long time put on the bench. Who's next ? You will be calling for Trent Williams ?

 

No it doesn't...not by the 'best' player on our defense, in consecutive games, resulting in a long touchdown.  Guys get beat, but #24 isn't even in the same zip code when it is happening.  And now teams know how to target Norman and exploit his desire to make plays at the expense of playing his responsibilities.  

 

You do realize that long TD against Norman was also by the same #5 rookie WR, who coming into this game had a total of 1 catch for 18 yards in his career? 

 

He hasn't been effective...how many passes is he breaking up down the field?  How can QBs this season almost have perfect ratings throwing against him?  

[lovemaskins]

6 minutes ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said:

Its called blown coverage and it happens all the time, mistakes are made. Big difference between making a mistake on one play and not being able to cover a teams #5 WR and trailing him by 3 yards on a go route. You must be kidding, Norman has been nothing but solid since he has gotten here, you people act like he is getting smoked up and down the field on a regular basis like Breeland and Amerson were when they were here. You people amaze me on this board, First you wanted the best QB we have in 20 years gone and now you are want the best Cover CB we have had in a long time put on the bench. Who's next ? You will be calling for Trent Williams ?

 

Don't take it personal, that's what people do on Extremeskins.  We love the Trung Candidate's and Adam Archuleta's of the world and despise the Kirk Cousins, Trent Green, and Ryan Clark types.  Logic and Reason get lost here.  

 

Don't worry people will be clamoring for another high priced free agent in 6mo to replace Kerrigan and other crazy stuff like that.

[Why am I Mr. Pink?]

Josh is a good enough corner. Qbs didnt really seem to target him the first 2 years here which is a big benefit for the D (like D Jax for O) .. this year he has been targeted and seems to have taken a step back.

 

He hasnt lived up to the expectations but hes been pretty good .. but not great or elite like I hoped.

 

If Im reading this right, he carries 6m in dead cap is released after this year. Absent a strong 2018, hes probably gone.

[JoeJacobyHOForRIOT]

2 minutes ago, lovemaskins said:

 

Don't take it personal, that's what people do on Extremeskins.  We love the Trung Candidate's and Adam Archuleta's of the world and despise the Kirk Cousins, Trent Green, and Ryan Clark types.  Logic and Reason get lost here.  

 

Don't worry people will be clamoring for another high priced free agent in 6mo to replace Kerrigan and other crazy stuff like that.

It's funny you mentioned Kerrigan because after i typed my peace i thought to myself , o forgot to mention Kerrigan and the hate he has been getting around here. Feel better to know at least I'm not the only one noticing 

[Wildbunny]

53 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

Thomas was smart, in constantly, on multiple plays getting that quick push in on Norman right after the play, so that if Norman ever decided to push him back that would be the push that gets noticed and flagged.  Reminds of Finnegan who would constantly try to get in shoves after the play hoping to get shoved back once the official was actually paying attention.

 

Defenders have to be smarter then that, and understand what the WR is trying to do.

 

Interesting that you think it is being smart.

Once the play is dead, it's dead.

 

That's like soccer player freely falling trying to get a penalty when nobody ever touched them.

 

You have to play within the rules. If you don't. Then basically to me, I'll throw the rules away the next time you get the ball. Which is to me, go for the knees, go for the head, whatever. Trash talking is fine. Once the play is dead, it's dead.

 

Especially when it's an offensive players doing this on a defensive players, when guys know that well, D is on notice for hits and stuff and stupid roughing the passer calls.

 

We're debating about how guys should answer while stading in front of our comp with no pressure at all. That's easy. Doing it with the pressure of the game? Harder to do.

 

Damn, who around here never got crazy while driving because a stupid guy did something even more stupid? Probably no one around here (or you don't drive).

 

Stop bashing the guy, Norman is the easy target around here. And removing all those tweets tends to prove he moved onto the next game. Good, that's what I want from our players. Saints was an embarrasment, still, there's another game to win Sunday.

18 minutes ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said:

You people amaze me on this board, First you wanted the best QB we have in 20 years gone and now you are want the best Cover CB we have had in a long time put on the bench. Who's next ? You will be calling for Trent Williams ?

You're obviously young around here.

 

That same board also wanted us to punt McVay away because he was unable to call RZ plays...

And Kyle Shanahan before that, because offense was lousy with McNabb, Rex or Beck at the helm...

 

Welcome to ExtremeSkins!

[megared]

Quote

Go back to the egregious error from the first half, and listen to the coach. He didn’t mention Norman by name. But he spoke with both candor and disgust that a veteran player could mess up what sounded like a basic assignment.

 

“It can’t happen in pro football,” Gruden said. “You don’t see that happen in pro football. We’re together too long. We’ve run the same coverage for too many times. We have to coach it better. We’ve got to make sure that never happens again. That’s an absolute embarrassment.”

 

Wa Post: Josh Norman is paid to be the focus of the Redskins’ defense, not the distraction

[Tay]

Norman isn't doing his job in certain coverages. He's abandoning his responsibility in an attempt to make a play. It's hurts the entire secondary when he does this.

 

It's not a talent issue. Clearly he's a better CB than Stroman, but if he's not doing his part, the defense can't function.

[NoVaSkins21]

Casserly was right, Norman is the 3rd best corner on this team.  They traded their best corner for Alex Smith.  He can play the run and that's it.  He gets beat constantly by the other team's #1 WR.  Just another example of them throwing a huge amount of $$$ for a player that thrived somewhere else and is now a bust

[megared]

24 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

You have to play within the rules. If you don't. Then basically to me, I'll throw the rules away the next time you get the ball. Which is to me, go for the knees, go for the head, whatever. Trash talking is fine. Once the play is dead, it's dead.

 

They did that...remember?  They got 3 penalties, extending drives which resulted in 3 separate Saints TDs.  

 

26 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

Stop bashing the guy, Norman is the easy target around here. And removing all those tweets tends to prove he moved onto the next game. Good, that's what I want from our players. Saints was an embarrasment, still, there's another game to win Sunday.

 

It's not too difficult to point out, when he's proving himself to be a liability to the defense.  Want to talk trash?  Fine, but at least do your job.  Don't cry to the media after the game, or engage in social media back & forths, especially after your most notable play was being a part of the coverage breakdown, leading to a new NFL record in career passing yards.  

 

Sure the record was definitely going to happen in that game...but in a twist of irony, his selfishness directly led to it occurring then and there.  I mean, who the hell decides it's a good idea to squat on short routes versus Drew-effing-Brees?  

[Monkman56]

The Redskins have a bad habit of signing players AFTER theyve had a great year and thinking it will carry over to our team. Its mostly always a fail. Maybe Portis, Jackson and Fletcher are exceptions.

[Wildbunny]

1 hour ago, megared said:

They did that...remember?  They got 3 penalties, extending drives which resulted in 3 separate Saints TDs.  

I was talking about Michael Thomas at this time, not Norman as I was responding him about "being smart" when shoving guys after the whistle.

 

1 hour ago, megared said:

It's not too difficult to point out, when he's proving himself to be a liability to the defense.  Want to talk trash?  Fine, but at least do your job.  Don't cry to the media after the game, or engage in social media back & forths, especially after your most notable play was being a part of the coverage breakdown, leading to a new NFL record in career passing yards.  

That's 2 differents issues here.

One relates to his on the field performance, the other one relates to character and being able to cool down on certain situation...

 

Now he didn't cry to the media after the game. Obviously, after being benched, you guessed Media would look for him. Did he complain about the coach? No. Did he want to emphasize on Thomas? Not really either... Twitter feed? Well that notable play didn't involved Thomas at all. And when facing Norman 1 on 1, Thomas went 0-0-0 so Thomas can hardly punk Norman saying he clowned him or such like that... So in that exchange between the two, I would believe Norman got the best of it, somehow. Even if he did fail elsewhere.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

2 hours ago, Why am I Mr. Pink? said:

Josh is a good enough corner. Qbs didnt really seem to target him the first 2 years here which is a big benefit for the D (like D Jax for O) .. this year he has been targeted and seems to have taken a step back.

He was targeted after he returned from injury last season.  Hasn’t been the same player since.  Something interesting a caller brought up on Doc’s show this afternoon of all places:  Josh seemed a better player when he was talking about his different character he’d go into, how he’d meticulously study his opponents, particularly the big names.  We haven’t heard any of that stuff in ages. He was fiery and feisty and you could see it on the field. We just haven’t seen that guy since this time last year.  Whatever is going on, seems like it’s more between the ears than anything, like he’s checked out in a way.

[BigDibbs31]

1 hour ago, Wildbunny said:

I was talking about Michael Thomas at this time, not Norman as I was responding him about "being smart" when shoving guys after the whistle.

 

That's 2 differents issues here.

One relates to his on the field performance, the other one relates to character and being able to cool down on certain situation...

 

Now he didn't cry to the media after the game. Obviously, after being benched, you guessed Media would look for him. Did he complain about the coach? No. Did he want to emphasize on Thomas? Not really either... Twitter feed? Well that notable play didn't involved Thomas at all. And when facing Norman 1 on 1, Thomas went 0-0-0 so Thomas can hardly punk Norman saying he clowned him or such like that... So in that exchange between the two, I would believe Norman got the best of it, somehow. Even if he did fail elsewhere.

And that is the problem right there.  A young WR owned the heads of three of our most veteran defensive players.  Literally Michael Thomas is all they could think about after the game.  It then turns into a twitter spat about how Thomas did nothing against Norman.  Thomas can only laugh because his Saints spanked Norman's Redskins.  In the end, all that matters is the final score.  Not how one player (who played terribly overall) did against a WR one on one. 

[Wildbunny]

1 minute ago, BigDibbs31 said:

And that is the problem right there.  A young WR owned the heads of three of our most veteran defensive players.  Literally Michael Thomas is all they could think about after the game.  It then turns into a twitter spat about how Thomas did nothing against Norman.  Thomas can only laugh because his Saints spanked Norman's Redskins.  In the end, all that matters is the final score.  Not how one player (who played terribly overall) did against a WR one on one. 

Except Thomas started the thing saying Norman was benched because of him.

 

Which is false...

[megared]

1 hour ago, Wildbunny said:

I was talking about Michael Thomas at this time, not Norman as I was responding him about "being smart" when shoving guys after the whistle.

 

I applaud him.  He absolutely 'flipped the script' and completely took the Redskins secondary out of their game.  Guys push and shove each other all the time...but rarely do you see guys losing their composure, like how Nicholson did.  And it hurt the defense by prolonging a drive that the Saints went on to score a TD from.  Norman has done the same kind of stuff over his career, so let's not pretend like he was some innocent bystander.

 

1 hour ago, Wildbunny said:

That's 2 differents issues here.

One relates to his on the field performance, the other one relates to character and being able to cool down on certain situation...

 

Now he didn't cry to the media after the game. Obviously, after being benched, you guessed Media would look for him. Did he complain about the coach? No. Did he want to emphasize on Thomas? Not really either... Twitter feed? Well that notable play didn't involved Thomas at all. And when facing Norman 1 on 1, Thomas went 0-0-0 so Thomas can hardly punk Norman saying he clowned him or such like that... So in that exchange between the two, I would believe Norman got the best of it, somehow. Even if he did fail elsewhere.

 

He pretty much insulted the guy after the game:

 

Quote

"That guy. Oh my gosh. That guy. To speak on him, I will not waste my breath. I'm sorry. I will not. He's not worthy of it. He never will be worthy of it."

 

Right, that notable play involved the Saints #5 WR that had only caught one pass before Monday night.  And since we primarily play zone coverages, I don't think comparing a stat line for one WR sums up a corner's individual performance...especially when:

 

• He completely fell asleep on the biggest play of the game.   
• He doesn't travel to cover team's best WRs
• They had 3 receivers with at least 70 yards receiving
• Brees threw for 363 yards 
• Saints offense had 7 passing plays of 20 or more yards

 

Did he not have anything to do with that?

 

Would you say that Brees avoided Norman?  Was there a particular reason he needed to go to that match up when he got whatever he wanted anywhere on the field?  

 

He rightfully clowned him about being sat down to start the second half.  

[BigDibbs31]

20 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

Except Thomas started the thing saying Norman was benched because of him.

 

Which is false...

And Norman went for the bait again.  Michael Thomas remained in his head well into the next morning after the game.  Norman was benched because he has played terribly this year and his focus is obviously not on football but rather his own look.  

[TD_washingtonredskins]

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

He was targeted after he returned from injury last season.  Hasn’t been the same player since.  Something interesting a caller brought up on Doc’s show this afternoon of all places:  Josh seemed a better player when he was talking about his different character he’d go into, how he’d meticulously study his opponents, particularly the big names.  We haven’t heard any of that stuff in ages. He was fiery and feisty and you could see it on the field. We just haven’t seen that guy since this time last year.  Whatever is going on, seems like it’s more between the ears than anything, like he’s checked out in a way.

 

Hmmm...where have we ever seen a player excel for another team, feel like he's worth tens of millions of dollars, come here for a big pay day, and then seemingly grow less and less interested with each passing season? 

 

I'm shocked that people are defending Norman. He's played ridiculously bad for his status and role on the team. Does he look like he doesn't belong in the NFL? Of course not...he's playing, overall, like a replacement-level NFL CB. But that's not good enough. And, I'm sorry, but his salary matters...especially since he only became available because he thought he deserved more than the Panthers (who drafted him and gave him the opportunity to play) were willing to pay. 

 

When the best rebuttal in this thread is essentially "Stroman might not be better" then we have major issues. And please all understand this, I don't blame Norman for making every nickel he can make...I do blame him for not living up to his end of that salary. When you get paid like that, I believe it's incumbent on you to be the leader, be an extension of the coaching staff, NOT freelance when you think you might want to, make sure you know the assignments, etc. And, if you aren't accomplishing those things, then maybe it's time to step back from the other commitments (TV spots, etc.). This is your primary job and you should only be moving on to secondary things once you've mastered this.