Wildbunny Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 8 minutes ago, megared said: I applaud him. He absolutely 'flipped the script' and completely took the Redskins secondary out of their game. Guys push and shove each other all the time...but rarely do you see guys losing their composure, like how Nicholson did. And it hurt the defense by prolonging a drive that the Saints went on to score a TD from. Norman has done the same kind of stuff over his career, so let's not pretend like he was some innocent bystander. OK? so you think it's cool to shove guys after the whistle... Fine. But that's a penalty, and 1 guy was going away with it free, while the other got flagged... See the problem? 8 minutes ago, megared said: He pretty much insulted the guy after the game: I wouldn't call that an insult, but to each his own.. And that's still answering to a media asking question about the guy. If Thomas just shut up on twitter and Media do not ask, we never hear about it. 9 minutes ago, megared said: Right, that notable play involved the Saints #5 WR that had only caught one pass before Monday night. And since we primarily play zone coverages, I don't think comparing a stat line for one WR sums up a corner's individual performance...especially when: And we're talking Thomas/Norman rant. So it's fair to bring in the result of their matchup in game. Instead Thomas just moved the goal posts to suits his theory.. Just like that kind of stuff happen all the time around here. 3 minutes ago, BigDibbs31 said: And Norman went for the bait again. Yup, he did. But you seemed to imply that Norman the thing when he did not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbunny Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 4 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said: I'm shocked that people are defending Norman. Just to make it clear, I'm just trying to get facts straight and that's it. I'm not defending Norman the player at all. Though I can understand the human behind. 4 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said: When you get paid like that, I believe it's incumbent on you to be the leader, be an extension of the coaching staff, NOT freelance when you think you might want to, make sure you know the assignments, etc. And, if you aren't accomplishing those things, then maybe it's time to step back from the other commitments (TV spots, etc.). This is your primary job and you should only be moving on to secondary things once you've mastered this. I know a guy that ripped Norman these last hours, but that also used to freelanced and got punked more than not on this very team. DeAngelo Hall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDibbs31 Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 I'm sure that all week the Saints had a game plan to get into Norman's head. It worked brilliantly and even spilled over to Dunbar/Swearinger. That is a major problem and shows his lack of leadership, imo. Thomas' game plan to get into Norman's head was 10x more effective than any stats he put up. The leadership on defense has to learn from this and not fall prey to head games brought on by opposing WRs. Playing off frustration never ends well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 Norman didn't look great on TDs given up against both the Colts and GB. Zero chance he is playing here next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 12 minutes ago, Wildbunny said: Just to make it clear, I'm just trying to get facts straight and that's it. I'm not defending Norman the player at all. Though I can understand the human behind. I know a guy that ripped Norman these last hours, but that also used to freelanced and got punked more than not on this very team. DeAngelo Hall. It was more a general observation, and I am with you - I usually like to look at both sides of everything. I don't see how the fact that Hall is guilty of some of what he's criticizing changes his point. He's either right or wrong...just because freelancing is tempting doesn't make it the right thing to do. Additionally, Hall was here on many pretty bad defenses, so I don't really want to use that era as the measuring stick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megared Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 2 hours ago, Wildbunny said: OK? so you think it's cool to shove guys after the whistle... Fine. But that's a penalty, and 1 guy was going away with it free, while the other got flagged... See the problem? I don't have any expectations of Michael Thomas' behavior. But the 'he did it first' defense is something I think those guys are better than. They've been playing football their whole lives, I'm sure this isn't the first time they've encountered trash talk and head games. 2 hours ago, Wildbunny said: I wouldn't call that an insult, but to each his own.. And that's still answering to a media asking question about the guy. If Thomas just shut up on twitter and Media do not ask, we never hear about it. Quote "That guy -- to speak on him, I will not waste my breath," Norman said, when asked about Thomas. "I'm sorry. I will not. He's not worthy of it. He never will be worthy of it." That's an insult. The only reason Thomas started tweeting was because Norman insulted him. Norman didn't have to comment on it at all. 2 hours ago, Wildbunny said: And we're talking Thomas/Norman rant. So it's fair to bring in the result of their matchup in game. Instead Thomas just moved the goal posts to suits his theory.. Just like that kind of stuff happen all the time around here. It really didn't matter. Your team got blown away, and had no answers to stop them, until they let up. And now you want to convince the world that you somehow had a great performance? That winning a matchup is more important than winning the game? I can see why he has problems with abandoning his responsibilities....selfishness. 2 hours ago, Wildbunny said: I know a guy that ripped Norman these last hours, but that also used to freelanced and got punked more than not on this very team. DeAngelo Hall. D-Hall had his ups and downs here...but no one can ever say he couldn't get turnovers. He had more INTs in one game (Chicago) than Josh Norman has had in 34 games as a Redskin. We're going on two years since his last INT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue Jedi Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 Josh Norman is already 30 years old and doesn’t have a 1/4 of the career or production D Hall had. Those using this situation to take side jabs at Hall, take a seat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbunny Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 1 hour ago, megared said: I don't have any expectations of Michael Thomas' behavior. But the 'he did it first' defense is something I think those guys are better than. They've been playing football their whole lives, I'm sure this isn't the first time they've encountered trash talk and head games. Oh yeah sure.... Have you ever seen this? World Cup of Soccer. 2006 Final. France - Italy. Overtime. 2 minutes left in it. Both teams are tied 1-1. The guy in white is Zinedine Zidane, best soccer player of the world at the time being. You bet he heard a thing or two about trash talking and dirty tackles. What happen? Materrazzi, the guy in Blue says something and Zidane head butts him! Best part in this is that the Ref didn't even noticed until one of his assistant told him what happened. And it wasn't even an official one. Zidane was rightfully ejected from the game. Experience doesn't matter at time. Anger can make you do stupid thing for whatever reason. We all went through this, sometimes at the worst of times. And I'm still not convinced it was a game plan. More of a natural behavior, as going on twitter to troll someone his making you look like a clown as well... OK guy, your team won fair and square. No need to pile on. Stay classy. You hardly sees a QB act like that. But WRs? Yeah lots of them. Still, lots of them are divas that can't survive more than 2 secs in the middle of the D. 1 hour ago, megared said: It really didn't matter. Your team got blown away, and had no answers to stop them, until they let up. And now you want to convince the world that you somehow had a great performance? That winning a matchup is more important than winning the game? I can see why he has problems with abandoning his responsibilities....selfishness. Well Michael Thomas went with "I" not "we"... So it does matter between them. 1 hour ago, megared said: D-Hall had his ups and downs here...but no one can ever say he couldn't get turnovers. He had more INTs in one game (Chicago) than Josh Norman has had in 34 games as a Redskin. We're going on two years since his last INT. Even Hall said it, Jay Cutler kept on throwing at him. So his 4 INTs a game had more to do with Cutler's stupidity than Hall's greatness. Competent QBs would have look elsewhere. Cutler did not. Brees was looking elsewhere when Norman was on Thomas. 57 minutes ago, Rogue Jedi said: Josh Norman is already 30 years old and doesn’t have a 1/4 of the career or production D Hall had. Those using this situation to take side jabs at Hall, take a seat. That was not my point. Hall criticized Norman, and he's right on it. But he used to do it as well as a player. And we around here at ExtremeSkins bashed him for this as well. Many wanted to run him out of town during the Shanahan's era. It's ok criticizing the guy for bad production on the field. I used to take jabs at Norman, for that missed tackle against the Colts for a safety. Or those easy dropped interception he had last year. That's plays he must make. And he failed to that. That is perfectly fine with me. Now, there's a rule here on ES about attacking arguments, not the poster himself. I try to act as well when it comes to players. So no, I'm not gonna bash Norman for being human and overreact wrongfully to something stupid. Guy has moved on, and that's all that matters to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megared Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 1 hour ago, Wildbunny said: Experience doesn't matter at time. Anger can make you do stupid thing for whatever reason. We all went through this, sometimes at the worst of times. And I'm still not convinced it was a game plan. More of a natural behavior, as going on twitter to troll someone his making you look like a clown as well... OK guy, your team won fair and square. No need to pile on. Stay classy. You hardly sees a QB act like that. But WRs? Yeah lots of them. Still, lots of them are divas that can't survive more than 2 secs in the middle of the D. Well Michael Thomas went with "I" not "we"... So it does matter between them. I'm not sure why you're comparing soccer to this situation. The guy was able to instigate our secondary out of their game, the same thing Norman tries to do to opposing WRs week in and week out. At the end of the day, he did his job, he contributed to an offense that our defense had no answers to. He wasn't spouting off to the media after the game, Norman was (his comment I quoted earlier sparked the Twitter back & forth). He didn't get benched for not doing his job. And finally, Thomas is on his rookie contract and is a piece of a well-oiled machine...everyone knows that. Norman is being paid as the top CB in the NFL, and as such should be expected to show leadership. He should be setting the example on how to conduct yourself as a CB. Conduct aside, he should not be THE guy in our secondary completely disregarding assignments. Again, he wasn't the one pretending like he had a stellar individual performance in a matchup, where his team got torched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgundy Yoda Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 He lost his fire, I'd keep him benched before his on field play starts effecting the lockeroom. I'd give moreau a shot on the outside. Dunbar looks like a passable #1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
50yrSKINSfan Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 8 hours ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said: I don't know why anyone would hate on Norman. Sometimes i feel like i am watching a different game then everyone else. I could understand people being frustrated that Norman is not getting more interceptions, but to me the guy has been solid as hell. Unless people are comparing dollars to production which at that point becomes quite idiotic as a solid cover corner is so hard to find. As far as Gruden benching Norman, do we even need a discussion to agree that it was a beyond idiotic decision. When Norman came out of that game **** started to get REAL UGLY . Far as Norman I think he is a good corner too but overpaid. Far as our brilliant head coach benching Norman fine, for one play maybe not for a series. He then puts in a rook replacement like Bree's is not going to notice, and then does not give him any deep help. WTF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 It's clear that Norman has gone from good in 2016 to non-factor in 2017 to liability in 2018. I'll caveat that he could easily turn it around this season as we're only 25% of the way in. But, from a level of play standpoint, it's been a regression each season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbunny Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 6 hours ago, megared said: I'm not sure why you're comparing soccer to this situation. Then you have absolutely missed my point from the beginning... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 5 hours ago, TD_washingtonredskins said: It's clear that Norman has gone from good in 2016 to non-factor in 2017 to liability in 2018. I'll caveat that he could easily turn it around this season as we're only 25% of the way in. But, from a level of play standpoint, it's been a regression each season. Well put. He’s regressed each year and I think the only reason he hasn’t been exposed more is his reputation and QB’s looked away from him. This year is different and I would not be surprised if he’s not in the starting line up within a few weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 I watched all Thomas vs Norman plays and he did fine. Did someone cite a QBR when grading him? If so a QBR is a horrible way to grade a corner. He is slightly overpaid, that is all that is wrong with Josh Norman. We have no one better and its not our money anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megared Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 1 hour ago, RandyHolt said: I watched all Thomas vs Norman plays and he did fine. Did someone cite a QBR when grading him? If so a QBR is a horrible way to grade a corner. He is slightly overpaid, that is all that is wrong with Josh Norman. We have no one better and its not our money anyways. We primarily play a zone. So you can't watch one match up and make that determination...especially when the Saints move their WRs around. Was it not Norman's responsibility for the 62 yard TD pass which led to his benching for a series in the 3rd Q? Slightly overpaid?! He's the highest paid corner in the league and counts $16.74 M against our cap this season. What metrics would you use to judge a corner? Because none of them are favorable for Norman... PDs? 0 INTs? 0 QB passer rating when targeted? 156.3 (perfect is 158.3) And I'm not saying to cut the guy right now. But he isn't living up to his contract, reputation, and/or trash talking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 I'd look to maybe move him to a safety position. He's not afraid to get physical and he's decent sized. He is living off his reputation now but that won't last too much longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowhunter Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 32 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said: I'd look to maybe move him to a safety position. He's not afraid to get physical and he's decent sized. He is living off his reputation now but that won't last too much longer. That would be a great idea if he is willing to maintain his assignment. From what I've gathered, his biggest issues in the last game were related to him freelancing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 4 minutes ago, bowhunter said: That would be a great idea if he is willing to maintain his assignment. From what I've gathered, his biggest issues in the last game were related to him freelancing. That's a good point. Ugh, reminds me of LaVar. I associate the word freelance with LaVar. And not just in the football sense, like anytime I hear someone be like "Oh, I'm a freelance artist," I want to be like, "Oh, you run around from project to project and **** stuff up and aren't reliable?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megared Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 36 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said: I'd look to maybe move him to a safety position. He's not afraid to get physical and he's decent sized. You run into the same issue with moving Trent inside to G. If these guys aren't justifying their salary at their current positions, you have to let them go. It would free up a massive amount of money to actually build the team or re-sign guys that actually are on the upside of their careers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 2 minutes ago, megared said: You run into the same issue with moving Trent inside to G. If these guys aren't justifying their salary at their current positions, you have to let them go. It would free up a massive amount of money to actually build the team or re-sign guys that actually are on the upside of their careers. I see where you are coming from and agree to a certain extent. But if Trent were to move inside to guard and became a pro-bowl talent, that'd be another story. Same with Norman moving to a safety position. If he were to excel there, it would help. Of course, I don't think Norman would be a pro bowl level safety but maybe he'd be adequate. Does that justify the salary? Probably not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megared Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 Yea, Trent is maybe not the best example because he has performed to expectations over the years. To me, the question should become, would a team trade for, and give up assets for either player at their current salary? And aside from Norman possibly being adequate at safety...he'd instantly be the highest paid safety in the NFL. Again, my opinion, but his presence alone on this team doesn't justify that. He'd have to take a ~$10 M/year pay cut for it to even be feasible. And if safety is that much of a position of need, I'd rather go after Earl Thomas, Tyrann Mathieu, Adrian Amos or Lamarcus Joyner in the offseason and save ~$4-5 M per year (from Norman's current salary). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 3 hours ago, megared said: We primarily play a zone.... The video I saw on Twitter today, appeared to be all man vs Thomas replays. I am sure someone else saw it too. Yeah ok maybe he is overpaid more than I suggested. But again, we were not cash strapped and thus couldn't get the missing piece to our team because of him. At least nothing public... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megared Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 3 hours ago, RandyHolt said: The video I saw on Twitter today, appeared to be all man vs Thomas replays. I am sure someone else saw it too. Could've been. Quote The Redskins' defensive scheme also deserves credit for the early-season success. Under coordinator Greg Manusky, the Redskins have leaned heavily on zone coverage to combat passing attacks, but hasn’t tied itself exclusively to any one family of coverages. They run some variant of Cover-3 on 33 percent of their coverage snaps and some kind of single-high safety look 64 percent of the time. What best characterizes this defense is multiplicity in its looks and coverages. Rather than confining themselves to one coverage shell or family of looks, the Redskins will run multiple coverages, multiple looks, and mix things up between man-to-man and zone. This balance of scheme and tactics has been part of what has allowed the unit to flourish because it means opposing offenses aren’t able to key on any one thing. Wa Post: Why the Redskins have reason to feel good about their pass coverage so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 16 minutes ago, megared said: Could've been. Here it is - Norman vs Thomas https://twitter.com/WeAreDBNation1/status/1050226315658493952 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.