2019 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[SemperFi Skins]

Murray is 5'9 7/8.... basically 5'10. Came out yesterday from OU training staff. Not huge but certainly better than the 5'7 talk. Seems he gets shorter as the days go by if you listen to the talking heads.

[Going Commando]

30 minutes ago, SemperFi Skins said:

Murray is 5'9 7/8.... basically 5'10. Came out yesterday from OU training staff. Not huge but certainly better than the 5'7 talk. Seems he gets shorter as the days go by if you listen to the talking heads.

 

That doesn't surprise me.  When I was looking at the listings for other Oklahoma players, they were accurate measurements taken barefoot like at the combine and senior bowl.  I don't think they lie about their listings like Oklahoma St has done in the past.  I think the weight listings are accurate too, although that measurement obviously fluctuates.

 

5-10 and 190 is workable.  He can get to 200 without losing any speed.  He's a little shorter than Russell Wilson and a little lighter.  Doesn't have as much bulk in his butt and legs.  You notice it on his runs, where he doesn't have the same kind of leg drive to run through tackles that Wilson has.  That's where I think he can build his body and see some benefit.

 

The hand size is the next measurement that will be scrutinized.  You hope for him to at least hit 9 to 9.25 inches.

 

But these things won't be dealbreakers with him.  He's in the mix for #1 overall.

[Anselmheifer]

Thoughts on Vosean Joseph? He looks tiny, like a small safety or big CB. He can cover though and blitz. He is physical enough. I don't think he's going to post an elite 40 time and think he could fall. What's his natural draft range? With his size, I think I'd be pretty excited about him in the 5th round. 

 

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/vosean-joseph-1.html

 

re: Murray, if he goes high in the draft it can only help us. I remain nervous about his size, the level of competition, and the sample size. Hopefully he will push someother prospects down to us. 

[Going Commando]

9 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

re: Murray, if he goes high in the draft it can only help us. I remain nervous about his size, the level of competition, and the sample size. Hopefully he will push someother prospects down to us.  

 

I have the opposite bias for Big 12 players.  I think the offensive guys are awesome.  It's the defensive players of whom I am automatically skeptical.  The programs recruit offense so well and they run these sophisticated passing games that fully utilize the entire field.  The QBs, WRs, and linemen develop advanced skills and tend to come into the NFL with a well developed feel for their positions.  The Big 12 is becoming the mother of these positions for NFL talent.  But the defensive schemes are paint by numbers and the coaching and players on that side are soft and the athletes are small and slow.

 

Let's use Isaiah Simmons as an example of the philosophical difference between the Big 12 schools and the power 5 schools East of the Mississippi.  Kid is from Kansas.  Leaves Big 12 country to come to an ACC school, where they recruit him as a safety.  Eventually he gets switched to linebacker and developed at that spot, where he becomes one of the best defensive players on a title team.  But if he'd stayed in Big 12 land, there is no way in hell they would have played him at safety.  He'd have stayed at WR and been racking up 1300 yard seasons for some high powered offense.

 

And it's not just about getting 4 and 5 star players and plugging and playing them on offense.  These programs are good at finding gems at the positions and developing them.  Hakeem Butler is a good example.  Former two star recruit who took some time but was eventually developed into a dominant player.

 

The only reason I'd worry about a Big 12 star not translating to the NFL due to level of competition would be if he didn't look dominant against the weak defenders he faced.  But you can clearly see that guys like CeeDee Lamb and Marquise Brown and Hakeem Butler and David Montgomery, and yes, Kyler Murray, are just flat out dominating the poor fools they line up against.  They play with tons of confidence and swagger.  And it doesn't change when they play their OOC games and bowl games.  These kids are studs and they tend to dominate those match ups too.

[Warhead36]

Murray might be a good NFL QB but he sure as hell won't be good here.

[HardcoreZorn]

46 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Murray might be a good NFL QB but he sure as hell won't be good here.

Very enlightening, thank you.

 

If you don't mind could you type up a report outlining who will and who won't be successful here? Go ahead and send it over to the FO so we can make sure we nail all our picks this year.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Where's a good place to catch updates for the EW Shrine Practices?

 

--------------------------

Just watched some Michigan tape focusing more on Devin Bush and Chase Winovich.  Winovich is someone I think goes in Round 3-4.  I like him a lot as a player, I like his effort and intensity, I like that he tries different things to get after the QB.  I don't like his inability to really survive through contact and to disengage from blockers.  He gets knocked off course frequently.  Curious what he weighs, I think he needs to somehow add some more muscle despite already being listed at 255.

 

Devin Bush is difficult.  Some of his traits say Round 1, others say Round 2 (or Round 3).  He gets caught up in traffic too often, he can't really disengage.  He gets taken out of plays by fakes and the like.  He sometimes has awful technique when tackling, instead choosing for a big hit.  That said, he's got clear burst, he does a good job matching receivers going through his zone, and from what I can tell he's good at spotting when the RB is leaking out to the flat.

[wilco_holland]

1 hour ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

Where's a good place to catch updates for the EW Shrine Practices?

 

--------------------------

Devin Bush is difficult.  Some of his traits say Round 1, others say Round 2 (or Round 3).  He gets caught up in traffic too often, he can't really disengage.  He gets taken out of plays by fakes and the like.  He sometimes has awful technique when tackling, instead choosing for a big hit.  That said, he's got clear burst, he does a good job matching receivers going through his zone, and from what I can tell he's good at spotting when the RB is leaking out to the flat.

 

Agree with Bush but I'm pretty sure he is going in the first. His skill set is in high demand right now. A LB who can cover well and be above average against the run. But he needs to have a free running role. It's not a LB who will blow up blocks and then get the running back. 

[sportjunkie07]

With kyle Murray going pro this becomes a decent qb draft imo.

 

 

[nonniey]

8 hours ago, SemperFi Skins said:

Murray is 54'9 7/8.... basically 54'10. Came out yesterday from OU training staff. Not huge but certainly better than the 5'7 talk. Seems he gets shorter as the days go by if you listen to the talking heads.

Fixed that for you.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

1 hour ago, wilco_holland said:

 

Agree with Bush but I'm pretty sure he is going in the first. His skill set is in high demand right now. A LB who can cover well and be above average against the run. But he needs to have a free running role. It's not a LB who will blow up blocks and then get the running back. 

 

I do worry about where he'd fit if Reuben Foster also suits up.  Maybe Shaun Dion-Hamilton is destined to be a rotational LB anyways?  Reuben and Bush have overlapping skillsets, but they are certainly in demand.  They'd also fix a lot of issues we've been having with LB's in 2018.

 

Bush is a trade down candidate.  I want a TE on Day 2 (Hockenson or Irv Smith), so I'd like some more ammo to ensure it.  The Colts have picks #26 and #34.  Maaaaybe we can get both of those?

[ToaCommander]

Every time I read the phrase 'Kyler Murray at 15' is giving me a mini heart attack. Huge risk where we can draft a solid playmaker at WR, DE, LG etc... My gut feeling is it won't work out. 

[volsmet]

19 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

I do worry about where he'd fit if Reuben Foster also suits up.  Maybe Shaun Dion-Hamilton is destined to be a rotational LB anyways?  Reuben and Bush have overlapping skillsets, but they are certainly in demand.  They'd also fix a lot of issues we've been having with LB's in 2018.

 

Bush is a trade down candidate.  I want a TE on Day 2 (Hockenson or Irv Smith), so I'd like some more ammo to ensure it.  The Colts have picks #26 and #34.  Maaaaybe we can get both of those?

 

I love Devin Bush, but you’re right, he’s a lesser Foster. It would make more sense to take Johnathan Abram, he can bring a bit of what Bush does while filling a need at S.

 

A corner prospect to keep an eye on is Palm Beach Florida’s, Jimmy Moreland. Moreland was suspended from the team at one point, which will likely move him down, but he’s certainly an NFL talent. 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

I'd trade down and consider Hockenson

 

Very athletic for a big dude, good hands, has a reputation as being vicious as a blocker.  If we are going sans Qb and wanted to be this monster running team, then having a TE who is a great blocker and also doesn't telegraph run-pass every time he comes on the field unlike our current TEs == IMO would be a great weapon.

 

 

 

 

[volsmet]

On 10/2/2018 at 7:27 AM, volsmet said:

 

I look forward to discussing who we will pick at 18 for the next 5 years with you guys. One of those years, we will find a guard. The redskins are the wizards, the wizards are the redskins, we are DC. 

 

———————-

Olamide Zaccheaus - doing big things as predicted on the most extreme of skins forums. 

 

 

Still not getting the love he deserves, but it will come.

[sportjunkie07]

1 minute ago, SamoaSkinz said:

Every time I read the phrase 'Kyler Murray at 15' is giving me a mini heart attack. Huge risk where we can draft a solid playmaker at WR, DE, LG etc... My gut feeling is it won't work out. 

We drafted a solid playmaker at wr near that range. And it hasn't worked out. 

 

Murray has too many ? Marks for a top 10 pick. 15 though? It is a position of need. He is a great talent. Would we use him correctly? Unlikely. 

 

I'd rather wait for a new qb when we get a regime change though. 

 

 

[volsmet]

10 minutes ago, sportjunkie07 said:

We drafted a solid playmaker at wr near that range. And it hasn't worked out. 

 

Murray has too many ? Marks for a top 10 pick. 15 though? It is a position of need. He is a great talent. Would we use him correctly? Unlikely. 

 

I'd rather wait for a new qb when we get a regime change though. 

 

 

 

Agreed. You don’t get a qb at 15, or 10, that doesn’t have significant question marks. Mcshay said he’d rather have Peterman or Dobbs in round 3 or later than Watson or Mahomes in round 1 — these guys all have too many question marks. 

 

[Redskins Reparations]

I believe in Clayton Thorson!

[Mournblade]

Yeah, yeah, I love the NFL draft...

 

Um, if any the Mods are reading this, you can un-ban me from the Tailgate forums now. I was told that my ban would be lifted at 

end of the REGULAR NFL season, so its time for you make good on your word. Thanks

[skinny21]

Man, Tre Watson (UMD) comes across as a pro’s pro.  Very intelligent, with football pedigree.  Tenacious player.  I like that he also brings the ability to rush the passer with his time playing as an OLB.  Like his grip and pull to shed blockers. Going to be interesting to see how he times in drills - for now his tape speed looks pretty solid.  Didn’t look like a liability in coverage either.  

[Burger35]

This talk makes me laugh we are in the middle again who knows who would be available 

[Skinsinparadise]

 I never graded Alabama offensive lineman Jonah Williams as a top-10 selection and have said so publically. In fact, I project him at guard in the NFL rather than left tackle. Williams is superb fundamentally but lacks the athleticism, agility and footwork to stay at left tackle on Sundays. Since the national title game, I’ve spoken with at least a dozen insiders and scouts to see if I was off base, yet they all agreed with me. The earliest grade I’ve received on him is the mid-first round, while some project him as a second-round selection. Everyone I’ve spoken with projects Williams to guard at the next level.

http://draftanalyst.com/shrine-game-notes-monday

[sportjunkie07]

2 hours ago, Redskins Reparations said:

I believe in Clayton Thorson!

Just based on some of his YouTube video made me want to draft him in the later rounds and groom him to be the future. 

 

Just impressive stuff.. arm strength, size, above average athleticism, lots of experience.  

 

However, he has thrown a lot of interceptions. I get the feeling that there must be a lot of bad tape on him and maybe that is why no one thinks much of him. His highlight's show more potential than the qbs that will be drafted ahead of him.