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stevemcqueen1

2019 Comprehensive Draft Thread

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Why on earth did we meet with a punter? We have the best punter in the NFL! This is such a waste of time 😂 Don't give me the "you need to do your research". It's a punter. 

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9 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 I never graded Alabama offensive lineman Jonah Williams as a top-10 selection and have said so publically. In fact, I project him at guard in the NFL rather than left tackle. Williams is superb fundamentally but lacks the athleticism, agility and footwork to stay at left tackle on Sundays. Since the national title game, I’ve spoken with at least a dozen insiders and scouts to see if I was off base, yet they all agreed with me. The earliest grade I’ve received on him is the mid-first round, while some project him as a second-round selection. Everyone I’ve spoken with projects Williams to guard at the next level. 

http://draftanalyst.com/shrine-game-notes-monday

 

I agree with him about the range.  Williams looks like a teens pick to me.  Ferrell pantsed him a little bit and showed what the difference between a really good lineman and an elite lineman looks like.

 

But I disagree that he's not a good enough athlete to stay at tackle.  If Andrew Whitworth and Jason Peters can play a damn good LT until they are 40 years old, then Williams is a good enough athlete to stick.  You can win at LT with strength, length, economy of motion and technique/leverage.  Work smarter, not harder.  The defender is the one at the disadvantage each rep, you don't have to be able to outrun them.

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Jonah Williams, OT, Alabama, Junior - 6.2

 

Strengths
- Excellent, consistent technician at the position.
- Footwork in Pass Pro is textbook.  As good as you're likely to see.
- Coordinated athlete with excellent movement skills.
- Plays with good bend.
- Fast off the line of scrimmage.
- Kickstep and slide is a premium tool.
- No issues mirroring speed.
- Hips are very fluid.
- Ability to transfer weight is excellent.
- Good anchor.  Can sink his hips and maintain his balance through the rep.
- Smart player who does a good job picking up blitzes and feeling out counters.
- Velcro pass blocker who can usually end the rep afer latching on.
- Particularly good in the zone run game.
- Good reach blocker.  First step is a real strength.
- Excellent RPO blocker.
- Good open field runner.  Footspeed to reach the edge.
- Good lateral step on his kickout blocks.
- Looks good climbing.
- Accurate second level blocker who finds his hat and gets the feet churning.
- Has the coordination to stick a second level block that is off his frame.
- Has the range to venture waaay outside the tackle box for downfield blocks on chunk runs.

 

Weaknesses
- Not a twitchy athlete.
- Not a lot of punch in those hands.
- Functional power is mediocre.  Just not very explosive.
- Gets big-boyed by length and a power inside counter.
- Not a workhorse in-line blocker.
- Drive blocks are meh.  Wish he'd sustain better and play meaner.
- Not much nasty in his game.  
- Eats a ton of punches without making defenders pay for it.  Not a bruiser who can get attrition wins.
- Much more of a Cody Whitehair than a Taylor Lewan.

 

I really like the skills that I see in Jonah Williams, and I think he is a first round plug and play tackle capable of starting as a rookie.  His skill level in pass protection is very advanced for a 21 year old.  And he is a natural fit for a zone heavy team.  He's a good athlete at the position, and this gives him a lot of scheme diversity.  He's a very clean prospect.

 

I know there has been some discussion about moving him inside to guard or even center, and I can understand this train of thought.  I made a comparison to Cody Whitehair earlier, and like Whitehair, I believe he could pretty much play any OL position, including center.  He has the natural running ability and snap quickness to do it, he would just have to learn how to snap.  And a move inside would mitigate his issues against length by matching him up with shorter interior defenders.  We saw what big old Clelin Ferrell did to him.  And in terms of run game responsibilities, he could really shine at guard or center because of how good a runner he is.

 

But I also think it would be a shame to waste that rare ability to mirror speed on the edge by playing him at guard or center.  That kickstep and slide is special.  And the truth is a lot of NFL edge talent is smaller today.  Many defenses have trended toward speed and edge bend and made do with shorter, less lengthy talent.  He won't be matching up with a Strahan-school edge defender like Ferrell every week.  And clever run design can certainly take advantage of his ability to execute difficult movement blocks at tackle.

 

I would play him at tackle first and see if he could handle it.  I wouldn't move him inside until he failed there.

 

Bottom line for me is that I think he's a quality first round OL prospect with only a few (admittedly important) physical deficiencies.  I think he's likely to reach his potential as a player and that he'd be a strong BPA candidate for us at 15.  I think our pick represents his natural range.  I think he would be a good schematic fit here.  And I think he provides us with some extra value because of his potential to play all five positions on the line.  That's really nice to have given the amount of flux we've experienced in the group over the last two seasons.  He's better than McGlinchey was IMO.

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McQueen, I always had the opposite opinion about big 12 QB's. That they historically had not had a lot of success and were difficult to evaluate because they were throwing to wide open WR's in non pro-style offenses. Maybe today is a different era in the NFL? NFL teams are employing more and more college spread offense concepts. 

 

https://247sports.com/college/west-virginia/Board/105475/Contents/Big-12-QBs-in-the-NFL-113153454/

 

Am I the only one that doesn't feel that Devin White is in the league of previous elite LB prospects? I haven't watched him much live. I've just seen cut ups. He doesn't seem to have nearly the same speed as Roquan Smith, doesn't have the violence of Reuben Foster, doesn't seem to have the instincts of Luke Keuchly. I don't know that there is that much difference between White and a second or third round linebacker this year. Am I wrong?

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Very interesting analysis.  Skins aren't going to use a first round pick on an OT unless they expect to play him right away.  Start him at LG with the expectation that he take over starting OT in the future?  Or put him at T right away?  Trent hasn't played a full season since 2013.  But he's too good and 12million or so is too much to sit.  Move him to G?  Moses is also too expensive to sit.  I'm not sure I'd want to trade either.  Gerod Christian needs a year of development after his rehab before he may be an option.  

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28 minutes ago, PlayAction said:

Very interesting analysis.  Skins aren't going to use a first round pick on an OT unless they expect to play him right away.  Start him at LG with the expectation that he take over starting OT in the future?  Or put him at T right away?  Trent hasn't played a full season since 2013.  But he's too good and 12million or so is too much to sit.  Move him to G?  Moses is also too expensive to sit.  I'm not sure I'd want to trade either.  Gerod Christian needs a year of development after his rehab before he may be an option.  

Christian tore his MCL, not a serious injury and will almost always fully heal without surgery, with no residual effects. How did people feel about his quality of play before his injury. Full disclosure, I DVR'ed most of the games after Smith went down and didn't watch a lot of them after they became unwatchable. 


Also, how do people feel about Cody ford vs Jonah Williams? I think Ford can play RT without moving inside, and it would be super easy to play him at LG and then swing him to RT in case of injury. I think his ceiling is higher than that of Williams, but Ford obviously will never be able to play on the left. Ford would give us very good positional flexibility. Honestly, Scherff should be back full speed and I'd like to see us resign Cooper. Williams-Ford-Roullier-Scherff-Moses with Cooper, Nsekhe, and Christian as backups, is a quality line. 

 

Edit: My take on Ford was previously based more on draftnik opinion. I just watched some of his tape vs Alabama. I think he looks thick, short limbed and a little sluggish for OT. 

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19 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

And these guys...Don't know any of them but why the heck are we looking at DT's?

 

 

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I had such fun watching Kyler Murray on Saturdays i kind of what the Redskins to draft him but i kind of don't because i think he is going to make a **** pro but if I'm wrong the upside is so huge its like getting Russell Wilson on steroids. 😐

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13 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

And these guys...Don't know any of them but why the heck are we looking at DT's?

 

 

Those aren't highly ranked DTs at this time.  It makes sense for the Skins to take advantage of the depth in DTs in this draft class and pick up a player graded higher than his draft position.  Skins can take a developmental player using Stacy McGee's roster spot.  McGee is paid a lot relative to his playing time and production.  Keep the D-line pipeline filled IMO.  

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3 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

Christian tore his MCL, not a serious injury and will almost always fully heal without surgery, with no residual effects. How did people feel about his quality of play before his injury. 

Also, how do people feel about Cody ford vs Jonah Williams? I think Ford can play RT without moving inside, and it would be super easy to play him at LG and then swing him to RT in case of injury. I think his ceiling is higher than that of Williams, but Ford obviously will never be able to play on the left. Ford would give us very good positional flexibility. Honestly, Scherff should be back full speed and I'd like to see us resign Cooper. Williams-Ford-Roullier-Scherff-Moses with Cooper, Nsekhe, and Christian as backups, is a quality line. 

 

From what I can recall given his limited playing time Gerod Christian was a big "meh".  But that's not a knock on him.  The Redskins knew he was very raw and needed time to be coached up (plus a lot of weight room work).  I hope he pans out in the future but I don't expect anything next season (a pleasant surprise would of course be welcome).  Nsekhe is another lineman that's always injured.  You can hope he's available to cover for the oft-injured Williams but that's not a plan.  Personally, I thought Bergstrom was suitable as a backup in the short-term (he covers both G and C).  We all know that LG is a gaping hole but I think Skins need to be looking at both Tackle and Guard positions.  I haven't looked much at these players yet - it would be nice to know whether the Skins had any long-term plans for OL play.  I'd hate for the team to draft a Guard who is optimal on wide zone and screens and then have a coach come in who prefers power blocking.  

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I may be in the minority here but I really hope the 'Skins don't draft Murray, if he's available.  We have bigger needs for this current team even bigger than QB.  We need a young DE or OLB, maybe even a WR or OT.  But I do think if Haskins is available, then we should definitely draft him.  This defense is getting older and I think Smith is gone.  The Front 7 can get even stronger, with this deep draft class of DEs or OLBs.  

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I likely will change as i typically do as its gets closer but if I had to marry a player that both is likely going to be there at 15 (albeit its not slam dunk) and that I'd take its Polite. 

 

Bring a speed rusher for once to this team.  You can play Anderson on first and 2nd and bring in Polite on 3rd and obvious passing down.  6 forced fumbles.  Play maker.  

 

Bill Polian was asked once about the Redskins defense struggles on third down, he said something to the effect is on third and long you want at least one speed pass rusher who can line up wide and just tee off and the Redskins pass rush lacks that dude because its pure power guys. 

 

 

 

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I talked about Ty Johnson 2 years ago on that draft thread while watching him kill it in a game if I recall it was against Texas, it been a long time.

 

https://247sports.com/college/maryland/Article/Maryland-Football-Ty-Johnson-Tre-Watson-NFL-Draft-Prospects-East-West-Shrine-Bowl-Terps-127915795/

 

Johnson considered turning pro after his junior year. But as a projected late-round draft pick, he returned to Maryland for one final season, which because of injuries and the Terps’ unusual amount of backfield didn’t go quite as planned. Johnson rushed for just 508 yards on 81 carries as a senior, missing his final three games due to calf injury and being overshadowed at times by super freshman Anthony McFarland, arguably Maryland’s best long-term NFL prospect. As a result, there wasn’t much draft buzz around Johnson’s name heading into this week’s East-Shrine Game.

 

The Athletic, however, tabbed him as one of the event’s sleepers. And through three practices, he has looked the part of one according to multiple first-hand accounts. USA Today said Tuesday he was probably the second best running back at the all-star event -- which is second only to the Senior Bowl in terms of talent -- behind Virginia’s Jordan Ellis. NFL Draft analyst Tony Pauline called Johnson “incredible.”

 

 

“He was running routes like a polished receiver,” Pauline said. “His footwork was terrific.”

 

A hard worker from a high school which hadn’t produced a D-I player in more than 20 years, Johnson is used to flying under the radar and then proving himself on the field. Maryland was the only major conference program to offer him and that didn’t happen until after he worked out for them in person.

 

A number of running backs have gone from the East-West Shrine Bowl to playing in the NFL, including Phillip Lindsay, who made the Pro Bowl this year as an undrafted rookie after rushing for more than 1,000 yards for the Denver Broncos. Although early entrants have taken over the draft and most top upperclassmen choose to participate in the Senior Bowl, the East-West Shrine Bowl still produces several NFL draft picks every year. Last year, seven event alumni went in the top-five rounds.

 

Johnson is one of two Terps participating in the East-West Shrine Game, along with linebacker Tre Watson, a Tampa native who is getting another chance to play in his hometown. Watson has reportedly met with several NFL teams this week, including the Minnesota Vikings, Cleveland Browns, New York Jets, Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Los Angeles Chargers and Washington Redskins.

 

 

 

 

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16 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

He'll be there at 15 if they want him

 

 

 

In mid December of 2017 Todd Mcshay had Johnathan Allen #1.

 

In 2016 — — — he had Tim Williams #6. & Teez Tabor 18th.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

Am I the only one that doesn't feel that Devin White is in the league of previous elite LB prospects? I haven't watched him much live. I've just seen cut ups. He doesn't seem to have nearly the same speed as Roquan Smith, doesn't have the violence of Reuben Foster, doesn't seem to have the instincts of Luke Keuchly. I don't know that there is that much difference between White and a second or third round linebacker this year. Am I wrong?

 

I’ve moved to join the majority on White, he looks to be a guy who can cover, rush the passer, hit, and move sideline to sideline. 

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51 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I likely will change as i typically do as its gets closer but if I had to marry a player that both is likely going to be there at 15 (albeit its not slam dunk) and that I'd take its Polite. 

 

Bring a speed rusher for once to this team.  You can play Anderson on first and 2nd and bring in Polite on 3rd and obvious passing down.  6 forced fumbles.  Play maker.  

 

Bill Polian was asked once about the Redskins defense struggles on third down, he said something to the effect is on third and long you want at least one speed pass rusher who can line up wide and just tee off and the Redskins pass rush lacks that dude because its pure power guys. 

 

 

 

 

Polite is a great looking prospect, in addition to his obvious gifts he battles hard v the run and shows incredible discipline/awareness on screens. You don’t see a lot of college pass rushers who are able, or willing, to play the screens with the discipline I’ve seen Polite play them with. 

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1 hour ago, PlayAction said:

 

From what I can recall given his limited playing time Gerod Christian was a big "meh".  But that's not a knock on him.  The Redskins knew he was very raw and needed time to be coached up (plus a lot of weight room work).  I hope he pans out in the future but I don't expect anything next season (a pleasant surprise would of course be welcome).  Nsekhe is another lineman that's always injured.  You can hope he's available to cover for the oft-injured Williams but that's not a plan.  Personally, I thought Bergstrom was suitable as a backup in the short-term (he covers both G and C).  We all know that LG is a gaping hole but I think Skins need to be looking at both Tackle and Guard positions.  I haven't looked much at these players yet - it would be nice to know whether the Skins had any long-term plans for OL play.  I'd hate for the team to draft a Guard who is optimal on wide zone and screens and then have a coach come in who prefers power blocking.  

 

Soon people will value guards as much as tackles. They will still be easier to find, but they won’t be seen as the last piece on a roster for long. The ball comes out quickly, it’s harder to help a guard, it’s easier to knock passes down on the inside, QBs can use the entire field climbing the pocket but can’t do a thing when the middle is collapsed — it’s easier to block ends on shotgun snaps than snaps from under center; games are being won in the middle of the lines. The Saints only advanced because Cox got hurt, you need someone who can do something with the best interior pass rushers. We need a left guard for any young QB, imo.

 

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If Murray is their guy, I have no issue at all with them taking him at 15. In fact, I want them to draft a QB every single year until they find a keeper. I am sick of the position being pathetic.

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49 minutes ago, volsmet said:

 

Polite is a great looking prospect, in addition to his obvious gifts he battles hard v the run and shows incredible discipline/awareness on screens. You don’t see a lot of college pass rushers who are able, or willing, to play the screens with the discipline I’ve seen Polite play them with. 

 

I love Polite but Im not sure if he is the speed guy we need. I feel he is more a high IQ high work effort player. The Jonathan Allen version of an OLB. But on the other hand, it might just be a feeling. He is really good in starting speed rush and then make a move to beat the tackle. It's then more technique then pure athletic speed. He is deffintly not slow. 

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2 minutes ago, wilco_holland said:

 

I love Polite but Im not sure if he is the speed guy we need. I feel he is more a high IQ high work effort player. The Jonathan Allen version of an OLB. But on the other hand, it might just be a feeling. He is really good in starting speed rush and then make a move to beat the tackle. It's then more technique then pure athletic speed. He is deffintly not slow. 

 

It’s incredibly hard to judge on film, people often knock the combine but it’s invaluable in confirming, or contradicting, what you believe you see on tape. Our eyes lie to us all — all the time. I’ve heard scouts - paid by professional football teams - confess that a player grades differently in different color uniforms, literally, more than a few, have felt guys looked more explosive in home v away uniforms. If trained eyes can be deceived by uniform color, skepticism is paramount - it’s not a luxury, it’s a necessity. I look forward to his combine, if he does put up strong athletic testing numbers, then you have a great pass rushing athlete - who plays with tremendous effort - & produced in a major conference, the ultimate prospect. 

 

 

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Points in Polite's favor, 4 PD's (shown to surprisingly help correlate to transition to NFL game), hustle, smooth player and clearly more athletic than most, shows attempts at various inside and outside moves but the technique looks blegh.  Given his hustle, this seems like a budding skillset to be developed.  Shows ability to hand fight.  Looks like he can drop into coverage extremely well for an Edge guy.  Saw him track and follow a RB to the flat and did not look uncomfortable or awkward like most Edge guys.  He singlehandedly shut down a read option with pure athleticism once (little hop step towards the QB forcing him to hand off then changed direction quickly and tackled the RB at the line).

 

However, as I've read from you guys before, he does struggle to disengage from blocks once locked on to.  Wonder if his arm length isn't ideal.  Curious about his size.  He's listed at 242, but read in other spots he's bigger than that?  What's up with Florida and their inability to run a stunt?  Saw a few with Polite looping around, and he looked bad, the rest of the DL looked bad.  They didn't call those often, but either it's coaching or Polite has no knack for selling the up field step.  He looks so athletic that stunts should be easy money for him.

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From one of my favorite draft sites, Hockenson

 

https://thedraftnetwork.com/2019/01/16/2019-nfl-draft-player-profile-t-j-hockenson/

 

 

 

 

Route Running – Arc releases at the LOS are effective to filter out from in-line alignment. Very smooth and natural at the top of his routes. Has shown versatility on stick routes, deep crossers, delays, seam routes, motioned flat routes, etc to provide ample impact in the air.

Hands – Wonderful softness in hands to ensure he’s snaring the ball. Caught a wet ball well (PSU, 2018) without gloves. Has softness to his hands to ensure he’s not jarred and missing the nose of the football in contested situations.

Versatility – A do it all TE prospect. Well versed in life as an in-line blocker, perfectly comfortable in pass protection and has excelled in that area. RAC monster, catch point winner, in-line TE with vertical ability. A true X-factor weapon.

Contested Catch Ability – Has high pointed a few (Indiana, Wisconsin 2018) balls with good sturdiness as contacted and strong hand-eye coordination. Well developed frame and catch radius flash and allow him to be a bail-out option in tight coverage situations.

Run After Catch Ability – More of a second gear than you’d expect for his stature, has blown through pursuit angles on more than one occasion and made defenders look silly. Has hurdled more than one defender in the open field as well. Powerful, difficult to wrestle down at the catch point.

Power At POA – One of the most tenacious blockers I’ve ever laid eyes on. The foot urgency and finishing skills are tremendous, will bury DEs and OLBs alike. Effective to collapse or wash down and ensure there’s a soft edge for ball carriers.

....


BEST TRAIT – Versatility

WORST TRAIT – Deep Speed (I guess?)

BEST FILM – Wisconsin (2018)

WORST FILM – Penn State (2018)

RED FLAGS – None

T.J. Hockenson is one of the easiest/hardest evaluations of my season. Hockenson is terrifically balanced as a football player and it doesn’t take more than a few reps to know he’s an immediate starter at the NFL level with scheme diversity. The challenge for Hockenson’s tape? Listing a weakness. Hockenson is comfortable in any number of roles, giving comfort that he’ll be fine in WCO or vertical passing offenses alike. He’s a scheme transcendent prospect.

 

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