Thinking Skins Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 14 minutes ago, Jericho said: I'm sure Jay would want someone who would be good next year. He's probably gone if the team doesn't win and winning and having a good QB often go hand in hand. That said, not sure why anyone would think any rookie QB will be good. It could happen, but most rookies are not good. If you grade them relative to other rookies, then they can look fine. But relative to the rest of the league, most rookies are lacking. I also don't get the idea that Lock is "more ready" than Haskins. Haskins was better than Lock last year. Sure, Lock has started more games overall and one could argue in a more pro-ready offense, but the idea that Lock is more ready to step in than Haskins sounds largely like conjecture and quite possible wrong. I'm sure most people thought Josh Rosen was more "pro ready" than either Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson. And to some extent, he probably still is. Neither Jackson or Allen has proven they can throw the ball particularly well. But which QBs had more success in 2018? This. And I'd add to it the question of how much power does Jay really have? I mean we can go with the EB report a few weeks back at the start of free agency, the fact that he's not a GM/Coach, the fact that he's in the last year of his contract, the stories about the draft last year and the Alex Smith trade, etc. There are numerous reasons to say that Jay is going to be told "here's your hand to play, now get me 12 wins". I'd probably rank Haskins as the best QB in this draft. I think both he and Murray have high bust potential because of the one year of success, but they also check a lot of the boxes of what you look for in a QB, kinda similar with Lock. But I'd say that Lock looks more mediocre and Haskins has the capability to be a really good player or just a meh player. But if we're going by the pre 2018 season stuff that was calling all these QBs backups, and having not seen much to change that during the season I don't get excited about picking one of them in the first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Consigliere Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 1 hour ago, Spaceman Spiff said: This is the dumbest take you'll read all day, I freely admit it. I also don't care. I just can't imagine a good QB with the name Dwayne Haskins. I just can't. Just call it the Blake Bortles Corollary. I can buy into that theory 😀 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 9 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said: I'd probably rank Haskins as the best QB in this draft. That's cool but i am curious what makes him in your eyes the best QB in the draft? Switching subjects: Me too, one of my fav possibilities in the 2nd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 Am I the only one that looks at Haskins, Lock and Grier and sees a group of QBs who are pretty damn close to one another as far as where they are/their floor/their ceilings? RE: Deebo - Dude is a stud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 Just listened to Finlay, he remains my favorite as for what he says as what the FO is thinking at QB. But like I said Keim and Hoffman disagree with him. He said he thinks they want a QB at 15. He thinks they only trade up for Murray. QB #1 for them aside from Murray is Lock QB #2 is a toss up in the building between Haskins and Jones. But thinks the more powerful people in the building (i gather Bruce, Dan?) we'd win out and they'd go Haskins if both are there at 15. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HigSkin Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said: No offense to Haskins but does anybody else really hate the rumor that Allen and Snyder are deciding what QB we should pick? Does this jive with what we heard earlier in the year where it's Allen/Snyder vs Gruden/Kyle Smith on personnel decisions? Ticks me off...ugh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jericho Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 45 minutes ago, samy316 said: They should've drafted a QB last year, instead of trading for Smith. If they had done that, they might've been able to dent some of the lost fan interest & ticket sales. This was a terrible move in keeping the status quo, and not moving forward. It's easy to say the team should have picked a QB, but who really was the team going to take? If they'd stayed put, the only QB available in the first round was Lamar Jackson. If they tried to trade up, the only viable options would have been Josh Allen or Josh Rosen. Trading up would involve giving up draft picks, like the one that netted Guice. Plus Allen still can't throw and Rosen is available for a steep discount this offseason. So these all look like bad moves. Any other QB taken after the first would be a developmental guy at best and likely to be nothing more than a back up. So no fan interest their either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilco_holland Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 1 hour ago, KDawg said: I'm not against Haskins at 15 necessarily. But someone, for the love of all that is good in this world please... PLEASE... tell me that we aren't going to be trading up in this draft. Please. Anyone. Kdwag, it's gonna baby gone...the love is gone awaaaaaaay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Consigliere Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 1 hour ago, Spaceman Spiff said: But this is the Redskins and the Redskins are dumb. I agree with the notion to give him a year behind Keenum but we know that's not gonna happen. As soon as Keenum performs poorly, the pressure is gonna be on to put Haskins in. My overriding philosophy about the Redskins is that they are always living in the now and they're first worried about who they can get/what they can do to promote THIS year. They need to have a face for a WE HAIL campaign or whatever. They kinda had it last year with Alex Smith. Alex Smith wasn't flashy but he was a winner, his teams always won and you can promote that. You can't promote Case Keenum. Case Keenum doesn't get anyone excited. But drafting a QB in the first round stokes whatever bit of fire is left in Redskins fans. It gets this board jumping. It gets talk radio going. It gets some excitement. But that only lasts so long, you gotta play the kid. And so if we end up drafting him, you can bet you'll see him sometime in 2019. It's really sad. I actually think Haskins has league average potential, that he's a solid QB prospect, but trading the farm for the guy is absurd. You don't win in this league w/league average QB talent unless you're the Ravens. It's the hardest way to consistently contend, period, it's the 2005 Draft redux. What a nightmare. I am so sick to death of being a fan of a team that's run by fools. It's a truism that many of us here, while not necessairly able to handle the nuances of the cap, or league affairs could run circles around this F.O. when it comes to drafting, and trades. It's really frustrating, and in saying that I own that the team is significantly better at drafting then that 1988-2008 era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbunny Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 6 minutes ago, HigSkin said: No offense to Haskins but does anybody else really hate the rumor that Allen and Snyder are deciding what QB we should pick? Does this jive with what we heard earlier in the year where it's Allen/Snyder vs Gruden/Kyle Smith on personnel decisions? Ticks me off...ugh... If they do pick Haskins, I'm gonna puke. QB is probably the position I don't want us to pick this year in the first round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: That's cool but i am curious what makes him in your eyes the best QB in the draft? Switching subjects: Me too, one of my fav possibilities in the 2nd Honestly not much. I've been listening to a few draft podcasts (not watching film) and reading reports and it seems like none of these guys are the Manning / Luck type QBs who you think are going to be the rock for years to come. With Hankins, its mainly that (a) He's not Murray, Jones or Lock, People can dismiss Murray's size stuff all they want but having just gone through that with RG3 and his track star legs not being fit for an NFL season, and having my dreams crushed after that JAX game (I mean the reality was the Baltimore game, then the Seattle game, but Jax was the nail in the coffin), I'm not a fan of an undersized "running" QB. Jones and Lock are both good QBs with the potential to become what we have now in Case and Colt type QBs. I don't see either with this franchise QB type mentality. Is Lock a new Rex Grossman? Is Jones a new Brad Johnson? I'm sure that both have more potential and the ability to do well in the ideal situation, but I'm just not really impressed with any of them. (b) he has a nice completion percentage, So I don't want to base a lot on the yards or TD stats because a lot of those are artificial numbers but the completion percentage is a good metric. That can be broken down into other areas like where does he like to throw, does he depend on a certain guy, are his WRs just beating their guys regularly, etc. But whereas 60% used to be a good number, I now look for something around 65% or better - especially with these spread offenses and short passes being more relevant. Neither Lock or Jones hit that second marker. (c) He's a smart QB I think this cna be said about all of these guys, but I like the fact that (kinda similar to Jonathan Allen with Chris Cooley) we have a local insight into him with Shaun Springs and Dan's son. I don't like depending on Dan but this means we probably know more about him and his abilities and from what we've heard he's been doing this since he was 7. So I think its something to like about him. But honestly I would really prefer Bruns, White, Bush, Ferrell, or Sweat at this spot. Hankins is a good grooming prospect, but why spend a 1st on a groomer? We can get good groomers in the second or third in guys like Finley or Grier. No pressure to play them this year, no expectations on them for being a first rounder and we don't miss out on the other guys who can contribute this year. I get the whole "you need a first round QB to win in this league" but I also get that GB went for like a decade of drafting mid-to low round QBs and trading them after developing them. Honestly I would still be in favor of trying to get a Rosen or if the Giants drop their backup QB, picking him up, or other young guys who could be cut. Its interesting because I'm listening to Al Galdi interview somebody about the importance of completion percentage (and an advanced stat I think its like expected completion percentage vs his peers) and just said no on Jones and Luck and meh on Hankins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogs86 Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 23 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: Just listened to Finlay, he remains my favorite as for what he says as what the FO is thinking at QB. But like I said Keim and Hoffman disagree with him. He said he thinks they want a QB at 15. He thinks they only trade up for Murray. QB #1 for them aside from Murray is Lock QB #2 is a toss up in the building between Haskins and Jones. But thinks the more powerful people in the building (i gather Bruce, Dan?) we'd win out and they'd go Haskins if both are there at 15. These are my thoughts also. If we do draft Haskins at 15 i would love Parris Campbell Ohio State in the 2nd round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said: Hankins Hankins Hankins. But who is Hankins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigo Montoya Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 1 minute ago, Thinking Skins said: Its interesting because I'm listening to Al Galdi interview somebody about the importance of completion percentage (and an advanced stat I think its like expected completion percentage vs his peers) and just said no on Jones and Luck and meh on Hankins. Lock and Jones led the NCCA in dropped passes last year... I watched them both throw really good (different kind of passers) balls all over and have them dropped by inferior talent. Also Dukes o line was abysmal, knowing that jones had to throw quickly led to an abnormal amount of tipped balls for a guy his size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins Skeptic Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 26 minutes ago, KDawg said: Am I the only one that looks at Haskins, Lock and Grier and sees a group of QBs who are pretty damn close to one another as far as where they are/their floor/their ceilings? RE: Deebo - Dude is a stud. You're probably not the only one, but I have no idea how you come to that conclusion. They're three totally different players, physically. Lock has elite physical traits. His arm talent is off the charts. He moves very well and produces outside of the pocket. He has production issues and some accuracy problems, especially in the short game. However, physically he's pretty superb. He's also supposedly a highly engaging guy that teammates like. Haskins also has really good arm strength, but doesn't move well. He produced at a very high level. Apparently has some daddy issues and there's some question about how much was him versus how much was the talent around him. His mechanics tend to break down when pressured, causing errant throws. I personally don't knock him too much for that, because it's very common and can hopefully be coached and improved with more experience, but that's a real knock. Grier produced as well, but has the worst arm talent of the three and played in an offense heavy league. The comment that "it looks like it hurts when he throws the ball" is something I've seen. That raises questions about his ability to make all of the throws at an NFL level. Think Colt McCoy as opposed to an arm like Josh Allen's. I'm probably not doing Grier justice with this description. It's just my perception All three have big questions, but they're different questions (production vs movement/pocket ability vs arm strength+). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Consigliere Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 1 hour ago, Skin'emAlive said: Alex was brought in to run the same plan SF and KC ran successfully. It was a decent move that was meant to provide a proven leader and winner to the team ( as opposed to an expensive status-quo) while we drafted a guy this year and had him learn the ropes. Part of the cost was too much, but in all, the plan was sound. Injuries happened. Half of DC immediately went back into their shell. Ratings were down because who wants to watch a skeleton crew in the middle of no-where-maryland, in a bad venue, with a qb that has the charisma of a potted plant, senor butt fumble, or a journeyman no-name camp fodder? Get a guy with moxie and potential, and get a new stadium deal at the site of RFK and watch the season ticket list explode. Never a good plan. Even any run of the mill dolt could just pull up Alex Smith's profootballreference page to see his 2018 season was a colossal outlier and not repeatable, it was entirely a product of Kelce/Hill/Hunt/Wilson et all. Any deep dive into his efficiency #'s showed it. We bought high on a QB who was about to be past it, and was never a better than sub league average starter in terms of production. He was a captain check down option that was a poor fit for Richardson AND Doctson, was nearing the end of the line anyway, and we gave up a day 2 pick and a corner coming off a breakout season. It was incredibly foolish, and was laughed at HARD in many circles, especially the ones I really respect and try to learn from. It was just god awful. I appreciate the second paragraph, a beautiful piece of writing there. I just don't agree w/your approach though I think it underlines how our F.O. works and what it will choose to do. They aren't forward thinking, they're reactionary and a joke. They shouldn't care about getting more eyes on the team in 2018 or 2019, they should be focused on good process in team building. Build a winner, people come, do anything else, and you can't reliably predict interest or attention year to year, period. They should realize they're murdering their brand by avoiding at all costs accountability year to year. People are growing sicker and sicker of everything Redskins, it's that Aints/Bucs 1980's apathy metastasizing and considering the limbo Boulez fandom is in, fans are already pissed to begin with, knowing there is zero hope for Basketball for the next half decade, the Nats squandered six years of a quality roster failing to win a single series, and while Caps fandom finally paid off last year only delusional fans think it will last long term, the team is aging out and this might be the last hurrah of true contention (and if they win tonight, a huge if, they have a 1998 styled friendly path to the Stanley Cup Finals w/only one other top 4 seed having won its series in the East). Maybe they think now is the time to strike, but they're flat out wrong, this will take years plural. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrFan Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 2015 Samuel played in five games total, making three starts and struggling with injuries. He suffered a hamstring injury in the season opener vs North Carolina.[7] He finished the season with 12 receptions for 161 yards. 2016 Hamstring injury bothered him 2017 Samuel broke his right fibula and missed the rest of the season. Despite the injury, it was announced that Samuel could possibly return later on in the season, but he suffered a sprained foot in rehab and would not return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said: Lock and Jones led the NCCA in dropped passes last year... I watched them both throw really good (different kind of passers) balls all over and have them dropped by inferior talent. Also Dukes o line was abysmal, knowing that jones had to throw quickly led to an abnormal amount of tipped balls for a guy his size. Yeah Drops are a bad thing, but eventually you have to question "did everything around this guy just suck or is he just not that good of a player?" Occum's razor says to go with the simpler answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 Just now, Skins Skeptic said: You're probably not the only one, but I have no idea how you come to that conclusion. They're three totally different players, physically. I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I didn't say they were the same quarterbacks. I said where they are (meaning developmentally), their ceiling (how good they can be) and their floor (how bad they could be). I didn't mean they brought the same skillset to the table. Or same characteristics. But I did like your breakdown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 4 minutes ago, KDawg said: But who is Hankins? I'm so caught up in last year this time when everything was about him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgundy Yoda Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 So anyone want to elaborate on why Greedy Williams seems to have fallen in the draft? I thought he looked pretty special for LSU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins Skeptic Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 4 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said: Yeah Drops are a bad thing, but eventually you have to question "did everything around this guy just suck or is he just not that good of a player?" Occum's razor says to go with the simpler answer. I have a small man crush on Lock, but I struggle with this answer too. My hope is that his completion percentage was a combination of his offense not calling a lot of the college-type of short game and bad receivers. My gut says that's not enough to explain the percentage. That's why I fear he's a Jake Locker type, which I always want to stay away from. Don't know enough to know the truth though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Always A Commander Never A Captain Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 21 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said: So anyone want to elaborate on why Greedy Williams seems to have fallen in the draft? I thought he looked pretty special for LSU Without sugar coating it, he can't tackle and is a bad against the run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgundy Yoda Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said: Without sugar coating it, he can't tackle and is a bad against the run. Sounds like he fits right in! If it can be worked on he could be a steal, his coverage ability is pretty high end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 I mentioned a piece earlier from Al Galdi's show. I figured I'd provide a link to the article referenced in that interview. It basically talks about the most important metric being completion percentage. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-nfl-is-drafting-quarterbacks-all-wrong/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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