2019 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Going Commando]

19 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Funny on the QB thread i am among the ones promoting the idea since I don't hate it.  Here I am throwing some cold water on it. Part of that might be me responding after just watching his game against Seattle where IMO he was atrocious.  The reason being to me its all about context, meaning trade value.  Rosen to me isn't a slam dunk so I don't want to give up the store for him.  Here's a post from a PFF guy suggesting some buyer aware with Rosen.  And yeah I get rough supporting cast in Arizona.  And I agree he did have a bad supporting cast but IMO he has some things to fix that are totally on him.  Trying to bring this back on draft topic.  If they get Rosen, I want some big dude who can fight for 50-50 balls.  I saw Fitzpatrick bail him out multiple times in games.  We need a dude like that if its Rosen -- Hakeem Butler?

 

The more I go back and watch Rosen, and the more I think about him, the less interest I have in him.  Not interested in giving up a draft pick and/or actual good player to take on such a big project with such low upside.  Especially when he's got the stink of being a draft bust on him after that god awful rookie season.

 

I would rather pass on every other QB in this year's class and roll with Gardner Minshew in the sixth round than give up anything for Rosen.

[Skinsinparadise]

43 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

The more I go back and watch Rosen, and the more I think about him, the less interest I have in him.  Not interested in giving up a draft pick and/or actual good player to take on such a big project with such low upside.  Especially when he's got the stink of being a draft bust on him after that god awful rookie season.

 

I would rather pass on every other QB in this year's class and roll with Gardner Minshew in the sixth round than give up anything for Rosen.

 

For me its can Jay fix him?  And I don't know.  I don't see him as plug and play.  However, I do look at any of the next tier Qbs - 2nd-4th round range as projects.  So if they are determined to get one in that range anyway than why not Rosen?    But if we are talking higher draft capital, I'd hate it.  So to me what they give up is everything.  If they pay a Lexus price for a potential non-luxury car than I'd hate it.   If they are getting a deal, a decent price for a car that maybe can be souped up with some work - then I am on board. 

 

 Reading your take on him, I agree with most of it.  Where I disagree is I like his arm strength more so than you do.  He doesn't have a great arm but IMO its above average.  And I see him actually escape pressure at times and he looks really good doing it sometimes.  Depends on what game you watch though -- at times he looks good at it and sometimes he doesn't.   And reading reports about him, i am not on an island on either point. 

 

Both otherwise, I do think he has high bust factor.  He gets sacked a lot, some of that is on him, he fumbles like crazy, throws into double coverage it seems without hesitation and throws picks.  As for him having poor touch on short throws that was Cooley's thing.  I didn't notice that part but didn't zero in on it.  His thing IMO is the 5-15 foot range in between the numbers -- dig routes, slants, shallow crossers, etc. 

 

I know the chic thing for these media types and most draft geeks to say that Rosen is better than Haskins and Lock.  And I admit I haven't really studied Haskins yet though watched him some during the season and I liked him.  But as for him being slam dunk better than Lock -- I don't get that.  What is it that Rosen has over Lock?  I guess the pretty effortless looking arm motion that looks consistent from throw to throw -- but Rosen's arm motion isn't matched with special accuracy.    Lock has a rocket.  Lock can throw on the run.  Some beat up Lock for how he throws under pressure but to me he has moments where he's fine.   Lock is more athletic and can run some RPOs, naked boots, etc.   My concerns about Lock is consistency and the rap about not playing big against the better defenses.  But Rosen has consistency issues, too.  So for me I'd me much more excited about Lock than Rosen.  Personality to me is a bonus with QBs -- and I like Lock over Rosen on that count too. 

 

But yeah if i am comparing Rosen to the next tier group of QBs -- Finley, Grier, Stidham, etc.  And they give up a third rounder.  My thought is why not?  But if we take Rosen with a first rounder, I am out.  I don't love a 2nd rounder either but wouldn't hate it.  I liked the idea of a 2nd initially, now not as much but I'd be ok with it.  I agree 3rd round would fit.

 

As I am typing this I am listening to the Cards beat reporter who doesn't think they take Murray albeit he says he doesn't know for sure.   He's talking about Rosen right know about how he liked to make hero plays and can get burned by them.  He likes him but thinks he needs to improve his consistency.  Like I've been saying I do think if they get Rosen, they better get some receivers who can grab some 50-50 balls -- feisty receivers with strong hands and wide catch radiuses.  

 

 

[dballer]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Second is too high for Rosen.  He's Brad Johnson.  A JAG.  Pocket passing statue with mediocre arm strength and below average arm talent, sketchy accuracy in the short and long game, and poor decision making skills.  Move him after his drop and he can't hit the broad side of a barn.  He's also got the undersirable combination of being unable to run away from anyone and simultaneously being completely unable to feel the rush.  He was awful last season.

 

If you get him, then you need to build an elite pass protecting OL to win with him.

 

I would spend a second to get a young Brad Johnson. And I disagree with the mediocre arm strength, he can sling it pretty well. 

[Skinsinparadise]

So the names heard so far that they like:

 

Hoffman:  Kyler Murray, Marquise Brown.  He's now doubled down multiple times on both

Finlay:  Murray, Fant, Lindstrom

 

 

 

[dballer]

the dreaded Lisfranc 😷

[JoggingGod]

2 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Second is too high for Rosen.  He's Brad Johnson.  A JAG.  Pocket passing statue with mediocre arm strength and below average arm talent, sketchy accuracy in the short and long game, and poor decision making skills.  Move him after his drop and he can't hit the broad side of a barn.  He's also got the undersirable combination of being unable to run away from anyone and simultaneously being completely unable to feel the rush.  He was awful last season.

 

If you get him, then you need to build an elite pass protecting OL to win with him.

Okay what? This entire write up is dead wrong. Dude is wicked accurate, has a good arm, and has decent mobility. His ceiling I’d say is Matt Ryan, and that’s a big complement.

[RWJ]

10 minutes ago, dballer said:

the dreaded Lisfranc 😷

Yep, and for that I would move him down to the 2nd round.

[skinny21]

I haven’t seen Ben Burr-Kirven mentioned... his tape has impressed me much more than many of the mid round backers I’ve watched so far.  He’s a bit on the light side (234 at the combine I believe), but he looks good getting off blocks.  Did well in the speed/agility drills.  Looks like he has a solid combo of intelligence, good athleticism and pursuit skills, motor, and decent coverage skills.  I think he has the build to carry another 10 lbs.  

[Anselmheifer]

I hate Marquise Brown at 15. McShay has us taking him with Ed Oliver, Byron Murphy, Brian Burns, and Deandre Baker still on the board. I would take Hakim Butler over Marquise Brown. 

[SemperFi Skins]

2 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

The more I go back and watch Rosen, and the more I think about him, the less interest I have in him.  Not interested in giving up a draft pick and/or actual good player to take on such a big project with such low upside.  Especially when he's got the stink of being a draft bust on him after that god awful rookie season.

 

I would rather pass on every other QB in this year's class and roll with Gardner Minshew in the sixth round than give up anything for Rosen.

 

I'm kind of getting that same feel, ironically. I had him as my #2 QB last year behind Mayfield. I wouldn't be upset if we got him, assuming it's a 2nd at the very most.

 

That being said, I think there will be a strong possibility that Haskins and/or Murray will be available depending on the Pro Days. I'm also getting more and more interested in Lock's game tape. He's a gambler ala Jay Cutler but he can definitely win you some games and his deep ball may be the best in this class.

[bowhunter]

24 minutes ago, JoggingGod said:

. Dude is wicked accurate,

First time I've ever seen accuracy listed as a strong suit of Rosen.  He was a 60% passer in college and 55% in the NFL. Neither suggest Accuracy is his wheelhouse.

[JoggingGod]

5 minutes ago, bowhunter said:

First time I've ever seen accuracy listed as a strong suit of Rosen.  He was a 60% passer in college and 55% in the NFL. Neither suggest Accuracy is his wheelhouse.

Accuracy is not entirely a measure of comp %. It’s ball placement more than anything. Cardinals had the highest drop percentage in the league and his WRs at UCLA sucked ass too. Rosen is on target the vast majority of the time. You need to have WRs that can catch though.

[JoggingGod]

Low key I’m willing to say that Doctson would have his best production with Rosen vs Kirk and Alex.

[Anselmheifer]

What is everyone's take on Marquise Brown? He obviously has elite quickness. Am I the only one that doesn't look at him and see Desean Jackson deep speed? And, he measured in at the combine at 5'9" and 166 pounds. Is that not worrisome?

[skinny21]

1 hour ago, Anselmheifer said:

I hate Marquise Brown at 15. McShay has us taking him with Ed Oliver, Byron Murphy, Brian Burns, and Deandre Baker still on the board. I would take Hakim Butler over Marquise Brown. 

Yeah, I don’t like that value at all.  I’d consider Oliver if we (were crazy and) traded Ioannidis, but Murphy’s my pick otherwise.  Trading down would actually be my preference either way... even more so if we send a pick for Rosen or plan on drafting a qb in the middle rounds.  

 

Trading down (for a late 2nd, or maybe a 3rd and 4th/5th?) and taking a G (or G/T) has been my preference for a while now, though if we land one in FA (plus a safety), that really opens things up for us.  Especially since I feel like late 1st-2nd is the best window for wr and db.  

Late round 1 - one of: Butler, Brown, Abram

Rd 2 - one of:  Samuel, Adderley, Thornhill, Winovich, Walker, Savage, Ridley, Oruwariye, Love, Pratt

Rd 3 - 3 of: Rapp, Savage, Montgomery, Sternberger/Raymond, maybe a qb (Grier, Stidham, etc), Gustin, Watson, oline

Rd 4 - 1 of:  Isabella, Hall, Burr-Kirven, McLaurin, Lodge, Gaskins, oline

[Anselmheifer]

4 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Yeah, I don’t like that value at all.  I’d consider Oliver if we (were crazy and) traded Ioannidis, but Murphy’s my pick otherwise.  Trading down would actually be my preference either way... even more so if we send a pick for Rosen or plan on drafting a qb in the middle rounds.  

 

Trading down (for a late 2nd, or maybe a 3rd and 4th/5th?) and taking a G (or G/T) has been my preference for a while now, though if we land one in FA (plus a safety), that really opens things up for us.  Especially since I feel like late 1st-2nd is the best window for wr and db.  

Late round 1 - one of: Butler, Brown, Abram

Rd 2 - one of:  Samuel, Adderley, Thornhill, Winovich, Walker, Savage, Ridley, Oruwariye, Love, Pratt

Rd 3 - 3 of: Rapp, Savage, Montgomery, Sternberger/Raymond, maybe a qb (Grier, Stidham, etc), Gustin, Watson, oline

Rd 4 - 1 of:  Isabella, Hall, Burr-Kirven, McLaurin, Lodge, Gaskins, oline

 

I love your list. Also, I think Abram. Is it crazy to think that Abram would be better in our defense than Landon Collins? He's 20 pounds lighter, but faster, more physical, and I think will be better in coverage. 

 

 

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/johnathan-abram?id=32194142-5215-9741-f276-aebd8758d3ad

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/landon-collins?id=2552454

[Hailmary70]

Who in this draft (Every defensive position considered) is THE hardest, nastiest hitter??

[Anselmheifer]

3 minutes ago, Hailmary70 said:

Who in this draft (Every defensive position considered) is THE hardest, nastiest hitter??

 

I think it's Abram overall and at safety. Murphy at CB is the most physical. I wish there were a way to get both. Imagining our defense with Murphy and Abram and Foster recalls the legion of boom. 

[Skin'emAlive]

1 hour ago, JoggingGod said:

Low key I’m willing to say that Doctson would have his best production with Rosen vs Kirk and Alex.

 

Id argue that Doctson will look better regardless of the qb right now as he has gotten over the injuries and matured a bit as a receiver. He’s also shown better ability to catch tough passes in traffic. In his first 2 years he was used primarily as a fade option ( without a qb who can throw the fade) and a deep threat of sorts. 

 

Still won’t get his option picked up, but he does have some value as a possession type of receiver. If he can step up his game as a great blocker, it could really open up his options. 

[skinny21]

54 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

I love your list. Also, I think Abram. Is it crazy to think that Abram would be better in our defense than Landon Collins? He's 20 pounds lighter, but faster, more physical, and I think will be better in coverage. 

 

 

Thanks   That’s the thing, there are just so many guys I love in that range, so 1) it makes it hard to give up picks, 2) it’s why filling our most glaring holes (G, S and maybe qb) in FA would be ideal I think, and 3) why trading back in the 1st is so tempting to me.  

 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Anselmheifer said:

What is everyone's take on Marquise Brown? He obviously has elite quickness. Am I the only one that doesn't look at him and see Desean Jackson deep speed? And, he measured in at the combine at 5'9" and 166 pounds. Is that not worrisome?

 

I had a shrine to that dude during the college season. That was the guy I touted the most during the season.  He was a lot of fun to watch.   What really got me going is watching all the ways the Bears were using Tarik Cohen albeit Cohen being a RB.   I think likewise they can be create with Marquise and find ways to get him the ball on sweeps, etc.  It's not just the deep ball with Marquise.  Brown can take a hitch, shallow cross, screen and get you some serious YAC.  I attached some of those type of plays here.   Some think he has 4.3 type of speed and IMO he plays like he does.  Explosive.  Has good hands too and tracking ability hence the comparisons to Desean.  Part of the reason why I got tickets and went to the Orange Bowl was because I wanted to see him play but alas he was banged up and barely did.

 

The Lizfranc though worries me albeit I heard he has a milder version of it, not a full fracture.  His size I think will give him durability issues just like Desean.  Love the idea of Marquise if he falls to their 2nd round or if they trade back.  I think 15 is too early for him solely for durability reasons. But I got no issue with Hoffman pushing how much they like him.  He'a not my top guy the way he was during the college season but I wouldn't hate us landing on him somehow though prefer its not with the first round pick. 

 

 

 

 

 

[volsmet]

On 2/13/2019 at 1:43 AM, volsmet said:

 

Murray will almost certainly be gone by 5, probably 2. 

🐢

 

On 2/12/2019 at 8:00 AM, volsmet said:

The Fantman may be getting slept on a bit. In his blocking you can see obvious explosion, he’s going to kill the combine if this isn’t some imposter in a Fant jersey..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On 2/12/2019 at 8:12 AM, volsmet said:

 

Do you see Joe Jackson as a bit of a poor mans Clelin? I’m watching some Jackson now & I see some similarities, more so than I have with Sweat. I think Sweat is better than either at this point, more explosive, less comfortable to block. But, it’s early in looking at these guys still.

 

 

 

 

On 2/12/2019 at 6:11 AM, volsmet said:

 

On to my dude. Not much love on this board so far, but there is time to build the hype.

 

 

I wager this doesnt stand after the combine. Seems a rather likely candidate for a delete or a claim of a hacked account:

 

 

 

 

 

16 hours ago, storretti said:

I’ve been listening to Chris Cooley’s podcast and he loves Drew Lock...LOVES Drew Lock.  He loves Murray but probably pick Lock over Murray if he had the choice.  He is not impressed with Haskins and doesn’t believe he should be drafted in the first round.  

 

...

 

in the end, Cooley made me a believer and I would be so excited if we get Lock in the draft.  But we will see.

 

Murray not getting to #2

Sweat over Clelin

Fant combine obliteration

Abram into round 1 discussion 

Cooley, finally gets it.

 

Some things become inevitable, things you hear first on the ES.

 

Sweat did unkind things to big animals dressed as humans in Mobile, that explosion was on display in the play by play in q1.

 

I look forward to catching up on all things that have never spent an entire week in Morgantown.

 

 

*noteworthy - McShay calls this the best defensive front class in 20 years, quick guy, same thing I said a year ago.

 

*less noteworthy - mentioned this WR class being better than the gurus indicated. It is, better than the gurus indicated.

 

The fun is just beginning.

[Anselmheifer]

Interesting article on Marquise Brown vs Tavon Austin/Tyreek Hill/Brandin Cooks. 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/nfl-draft-2019-is-oklahomas-marquise-brown-the-next-tavon-austin-or-tyreek-hill/

 

What do you guys think of Marquise Brown vs. Butler? I love Butler. Bown's size, injury, lack of combine numbers can't help him. I just can't see him going top 15. The rumor last year was that the skins loved Guice and might take him in the first. They traded down when he was available in the second, but still wound up grabbing him. I hope their love for Brown is in the same ball park. 

Also, I do hope we trade a pick for Rosen. Maybe a future pick. This draft is full of talent. I'd love to see us get a QB with promis on a cheap contract and still be able to strengthen the team around him. The Rosen contract is extremely enticing. 

[Skin'emAlive]

What are our thoughts on TE in this draft? Personally, I think that picking up a guy like Foster Moreau would be a phenominal choice. He's a 6'6 bruiser who excels at blocking, and is 1 year removed from leading LSU as the top receiver. Obviously guys like Fant, Irv Smith, and Hockenson are going to take the tope 3 spots, but I think a guy like Moreau would be a much better fit with our power rushing and play action style of offense. Reed is a great TE with some injury concerns. But with the right team, I think he could see his full potential. Unfortunately I dont see that happening here. Its more of a situation where he doesnt fit the style of play we need.

 

A similar example would be Baltimore's current situation. Ultimately Andrews will be their top guy because they are a rushing/playaction team. He's just a much better blocker. Its why guys like Devlin in NE get a lot of burn. Great blocking is under appreciated, and we havent had elite blocking from our RB/TE since Portis/Sellers/Cooley. I think Reed could see his full potential with a team like Atlanta or LA Rams and would look to see if we couldnt make a trade for a pick to grab Foster in the 4th/5th.

[Skinsinparadise]

I mostly ignore it because I don't see how they do it.  But there is smoke on the Kyler Murray drill.  Finlay has said multiple times don't rule out them trading up.  I don't though see how?  Though I do share their man crush on Murray.