Miami Herald: I’m done trying to understand Trump supporters. Why don’t they try to understand me?

[grego]

1 hour ago, No Excuses said:

 

I really didn't. You can typically only find it in yourself to whine about mean lefties. And in the case of Tim Pool, you are the company you keep and he has no problem being a close ally of alt-right douchebags. I mean for ****s sake, the guy has been photographed with hanging out with alt-righters, while throwing the white power gesture. And I know some of you still like to pretend  "BUT IS IT REALLY A WHITE POWER SYMBOL???". Yes it is, and has been since it was co-opted by Richard Spencer. Playing dumb isn't going to work anymore, especially when videos like the one above with dumb trash throwing that sign while saying "**** n-word".

 

So no, I didn't miss your point. Your point is consistently, "lefties are out of control labeling everyone racist", and typically the people you think shouldn't be labeled racist (remember when you were still wondering why Stefan Molyneux is a racist?), are in fact, complete dip**** racists.

 

to the point of tim pool and its going down, to be clear- are you saying they are correct in calling him an alt right troll?

 

if so, we are ****ed. 

[NoCalMike]

We can put to bed the "BUT IS IT REALLY A WHITE POWER SYMBOL?" debate.  When I was a kid, it wasn't. It was an "Ok" or "A-Ok" sign.  Clearly now that is not the case and if you look at the context of almost any photo/video where it is being used, it is pretty obvious that the person throwing it up is either an Alt-Right idiot or a troll who thinks it is funny to make people believe they are an alt-right idiot and deserve the reaction they get. 

[No Excuses]

46 minutes ago, grego said:

 

to the point of tim pool and its going down, to be clear- are you saying they are correct in calling him an alt right troll?

 

if so, we are ****ed. 

 

At best he is an alt-right sympathizer.

 

And no we're ****ed because people like you ask dumb questions like "Are people who associate prominent alt-right goons and repeat their talking points ALT-RIGHT???" or "Is Stefan Molyeneux, a guy who makes racist comments all the time, REALLY RACIST???".

 

But when it comes to people you have an agenda against, you have no issue making assumptions through association: see your constant veiled-Islamophobia and past posts about the Muslim Students Association.

 

Your act is tiring, own your views and run with it. You don't like people who fight for social justice and you don't like people who out bigots and racists.

Edited May 10, 2019 by No Excuses

[Warhead36]

If you have to ask if something is racist, its probably racist.

[nonniey]

16 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

If you have to ask if something is racist, its probably racist.

Not in today's day and age where people decide to claim, create, use, etc. just about anything to take or give offense.  

[NoCalMike]

6 minutes ago, nonniey said:

Not in today's day and age where people decide to claim, create, use, etc. just about anything to take or give offense.  

 

I think we are talking about two different things though.  Something like say, the Pepe Frog cartoon or the "Ok" sign.  Their origins are not racist, but unless you live under a rock or are totally oblivious to current news cycles/online communities in general (and granted, some people are so they might get a pass based on ignorance) then we all know these things have been co-opted by the Alt-Right.   So with that knowledge if you continue associating or using these things, even in a trolling fashion, then don't give me this BS after the fact of "well I wasn't using it that way"

[grego]

1 hour ago, No Excuses said:

 

At best he is an alt-right sympathizer.

 

And no we're ****ed because people like you ask dumb questions like "Are people who associate prominent alt-right goons and repeat their talking points ALT-RIGHT???" or "Is Stefan Molyeneux, a guy who makes racist comments all the time, REALLY RACIST???".

 

But when it comes to people you have an agenda against, you have no issue making assumptions through association: see your constant veiled-Islamophobia and past posts about the Muslim Students Association.

 

Your act is tiring, own your views and run with it. You don't like people who fight for social justice and you don't like people who out bigots and racists.

 

how is pool an alt right sympathizer? there are very, very few people that I am comfortable 'going to bat for' in terms of integrity and character, and he is one. he is not close to alt right. 

 

I know very little about molyneux. the only thing I recall ever posting about him is that he did a debate with sam sede- I cant find anything in a search. he may very well be a racist, I just don't know because I don't listen to him. I literally have no opinion one way or another. 

 

 here's my post about the msa-

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Posted June 6, 2018 (edited)

On 6/6/2018 at 11:57 AM, No Excuses said:

If anyone wants to see the bare naked racism of conservatives, take a look at what’s happening in the Michigan governors race:

 

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/democrat-abdul-el-sayed-michigan-muslim-candidates-conspiracy-theories_us_5aeb27f6e4b0ab5c3d62baa7

 

A wildly successful, highly educated Muslim doctor is accused of being sympathetic to Islamic radicals and being a George Soros puppet with zero factual basis by a Republican candidate who has backing from mainstream Republicans like Ted Cruz. 

 

This is basically what it’s like to be colored and successful in America. When you make it, there’s some conservative dip**** ready to question your credentials and merit. **** these people. Racist little goons. 

 

I did a very quick search about this. Apparently he was VP of a chapter of the Muslim student association, which has been accused of ties with the Muslim brotherhood, and called a "Radicalization incubator" by the NYPD. 

 

I assume the last part is true, and it appears that people in the MSA have been found to be terrorist sympathizers, including MSA’s national president from 1983, Abdurrahman Alamoudi. 

 

I question sources and basically don't trust any when it comes to some issues, so I don't know what's accurate or not, but it's something to look into. 

 

(don't know why font got big - not intentional.- ok fixed)

Edited June 6, 2018 by grego

 

 

is this what you are referring to? I don't see any others about the msa.

 

Edited May 10, 2019 by grego

[Renegade7]

I'm still going to use the okay sign for OK, I don't believe we're too far down that path.  

 

I wish we all admitted we had stereotypes of each other just like every other species and just try to not let us keep from co-existing.  

 

 

 

[NoCalMike]

40 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

I'm still going to use the okay sign for OK, I don't believe we're too far down that path.  

 

I wish we all admitted we had stereotypes of each other just like every other species and just try to not let us keep from co-existing.  

 

 

 

 

I might have not been clear enough, I didn't mean the use of it all together should be banned on principle, it is more when all these white kids are specifically taking pics doing it where the "sign for OK" is out of place and it is just purposely thrown up.  For example if someone at work said "Hey Mike, great job on that report" and in response I threw up the "Ok sign" I wouldn't see an issue with that.  Contrast that with say a pic of me and a few of my friends taking a pic and we are all throwing up the sign for no real reason other than to "troll"  I think it would inappropriate.    

[No Excuses]

1 hour ago, grego said:

how is pool an alt right sympathizer? there are very, very few people that I am comfortable 'going to bat for' in terms of integrity and character, and he is one. he is not close to alt right. 

 

Here he is dining out and posing in photographs with alt-right racist dip****s while they throw the white power symbol:

 

 

More alt-right douchebaggery with notorious hate group Proud Boys who he has consistently defended and amplified their message. The guy seems to have a knack in appearing with photos with alt-right douches as they throw white power symbols:

 

 

He's also close to notorious white supremacist Faith Goldy who has posted their private conversations whining about the de-platforming of the Proud Boys. I won't link the texts since they contain profanity but they are out there to see.

 

I also won't link to but it is easy to find him amplifying Jacob Wohl's nonsense and also being a constant feature on alt-right/InfoWars xenophobic schmuck Paul Joseph Watson's show.

 

The guy is at best an alt-right sympathizer and that's being generous. Really kind of silly that you want to defend his character but go for it. He criticizes SJW's and lefties so I am he gets high marks in your book.

Edited May 10, 2019 by No Excuses

[TheGreatBuzz]

3 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

 

I think we are talking about two different things though.  Something like say, the Pepe Frog cartoon or the "Ok" sign.  Their origins are not racist, but unless you live under a rock or are totally oblivious to current news cycles/online communities in general (and granted, some people are so they might get a pass based on ignorance) then we all know these things have been co-opted by the Alt-Right.   So with that knowledge if you continue associating or using these things, even in a trolling fashion, then don't give me this BS after the fact of "well I wasn't using it that way"

I think you are overestimating how much normal people pay attention to small things in the news like this.  You forget that we here are A LOT more knowledgeable about what is going on in the world than the average Joe.  And I wouldn't have known anything a out the frog or hand gesture if it weren't for ES.

[NoCalMike]

45 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I think you are overestimating how much normal people pay attention to small things in the news like this.  You forget that we here are A LOT more knowledgeable about what is going on in the world than the average Joe.  And I wouldn't have known anything a out the frog or hand gesture if it weren't for ES.

 

I get that, but haven't recent polls shown most people claim to get their news from Facebook (which coincidentally means links posted on FB from all sorts of websites?)  So if we are judging by those kinds of metrics I wouldn't be surprised if it has come up.  However, that is also why I put in parenthesis that I am giving a pass based on ignorance, because I would rather demonize hate and try to inform ignorance. 

[grego]

4 hours ago, No Excuses said:

 

The guy is at best an alt-right sympathizer and that's being generous. Really kind of silly that you want to defend his character but go for it. He criticizes SJW's and lefties so I am he gets high marks in your book.

 

the guy from the tweet, vic berger, is a guy who had accused mcginnis of threatening him. pool reached out to both of them for comment and says that berger blocked him instead of responding. pool discusses it in a video i can link you to if you like. after that, it looks like berger started going after pool. why berger didnt respond, i have no idea. i had never heard of him until you posted that. he's accusing pool of operating in bad faith and a far right propagandist, presumably because he was in a picture with some far right trolls. 

 

the problem i have with that is two fold. first, pool is a journalist. he made his name by talking to people and recording events like occupy wall street. he talks to everyone a far as i can tell. what would be telling is what he actually thinks of the far right, and you can find out easily. if he was sympathetic to these people, or if he agreed with them, then he would be guilty of being what you and berger are accusing him off. being that he's a quarter korean, he wouldn't fit in very well with those people. what pool does do is defend principle. he's a pretty hard core free speech guy and so he defends the rights of some of these far right 'loons', as he calls them, to speak. when mcginnis got banned, he was critical of mcginnis. watch the video on the topic and you'll hear it yourself. defending what people are saying as opposed to defending their right to say it are very different things.

 

pool is a media critic who criticizes the way media covers stories- left, right, everybody. he goes through all of the news outlets and breaks down how they are reporting various events. this is great, imo. if someone is quoting a source, whether its its going down, which is far left, or breitbart, which far right, it's helpful to know if there is a bias there, if you don't already know, and helpful to know if they have a reliable track record. he promotes media fact checking websites and recognizes how the media sacrifices quality for clicks, and he is exactly right about that. 

 

i think you've likely made up your mind about pool, so i don't expect you to agree, so i'll say this- if pool is an undercover quarter asian white supremacist, if you can find him espousing white supremacist ideas, then i will absolutely say i'm wrong. he's got thousands of hours of videos of him talking so it shouldn't be hard to find that. where we will agree is that white nationalists are scumbags, and i have no problem with anyone- its going down, or anyone else- pointing them out. 

 

i think we're done with tim pool, unless you have anything to show me about him (and if you do, PM me- i wouldn't support an actual white nationalist). when you said i was islamophobic regarding the MSA, was the post i quoted above the one you were talking about? if so, what part of that did you have a problem with? 

Edited May 10, 2019 by grego

[No Excuses]

The guy goes regularly on InfoWars and PrisonPlanet and spreads xenophobia on issues like Muslims living in Sweden, but ok. The InfoWars contributor is the media fact checker we need. 

 

Casually finding yourself in multiple photos with alt right racists throwing white supremacy symbols must be totally incidental. Constantly defending Proud Boys and Gavin McInness, while constantly railing against far left groups, really shows what a neutral observer he is. 

 

Whatever dude, you want to find a million excuses for his clear pattern of being in the alt-right sphere, go for it. I know most decent journalists across both sides of the aisle aren’t frequently found to be casually friendly with racist dip****s.

 

As far as your thinly veiled Islamaphobia, the MSA stuff was you casually attempting to justify bigotry thrown at a Muslim politician, with no ties whatsoever to extremism. We went over this last time. I don’t think it’s co-incidental that you find yourself exposed to bogus right wing conspiracies when you think hacks who contribute to InfoWars are badly needed “fact checkers. 

Edited May 10, 2019 by No Excuses

[TradeTheBeal!]

Did you know he was 1/4 Asian?  I repeat...ONE QUARTER ASIAN.

 

Checkmate.

[Mooka]

21 minutes ago, grego said:

i think you've likely made up your mind about pool, so i don't expect you to agree, so i'll say this- if pool is an undercover quarter asian white supremacist, if you can find him espousing white supremacist ideas, then i will absolutely say i'm wrong. 

 

I don't know anything about these people or this Tim Pool, but in my experience white racists could give 2 ****s if you are a quarter Asian. They care even less if you look white. (the younger they are the less they care too) Its not even remotely the same ballpark as being brown skinned or black. 

[No Excuses]

55 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

Did you know he was 1/4 Asian?  I repeat...ONE QUARTER ASIAN.

 

Checkmate.

 

Alt-right dorks have a weird Asian thing, where in their “race realism” theories, Asians are superior to whites based on some dumb metric they came up with (IQ test scores I think). 

 

Not that any of them get laid, but they also want white men to only “breed” with white women or Asian women. You know so we can have more “high IQ” dip****s who ****post on 4chan.

[PeterMP]

4 hours ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I think you are overestimating how much normal people pay attention to small things in the news like this.  You forget that we here are A LOT more knowledgeable about what is going on in the world than the average Joe.  And I wouldn't have known anything a out the frog or hand gesture if it weren't for ES.

 

I didn't know until today in this thread that the ok sign had been take over by white supremacist.  Though, it also isn't something i normally go around doing anyway.

[PeterMP]

2 hours ago, grego said:

 

the guy from the tweet, vic berger, is a guy who had accused mcginnis of threatening him. pool reached out to both of them for comment and says that berger blocked him instead of responding. pool discusses it in a video i can link you to if you like. after that, it looks like berger started going after pool. why berger didnt respond, i have no idea. i had never heard of him until you posted that. he's accusing pool of operating in bad faith and a far right propagandist, presumably because he was in a picture with some far right trolls. 

 

the problem i have with that is two fold. first, pool is a journalist. he made his name by talking to people and recording events like occupy wall street. he talks to everyone a far as i can tell. what would be telling is what he actually thinks of the far right, and you can find out easily. if he was sympathetic to these people, or if he agreed with them, then he would be guilty of being what you and berger are accusing him off. being that he's a quarter korean, he wouldn't fit in very well with those people. what pool does do is defend principle. he's a pretty hard core free speech guy and so he defends the rights of some of these far right 'loons', as he calls them, to speak. when mcginnis got banned, he was critical of mcginnis. watch the video on the topic and you'll hear it yourself. defending what people are saying as opposed to defending their right to say it are very different things.

 

pool is a media critic who criticizes the way media covers stories- left, right, everybody. he goes through all of the news outlets and breaks down how they are reporting various events. this is great, imo. if someone is quoting a source, whether its its going down, which is far left, or breitbart, which far right, it's helpful to know if there is a bias there, if you don't already know, and helpful to know if they have a reliable track record. he promotes media fact checking websites and recognizes how the media sacrifices quality for clicks, and he is exactly right about that. 

 

i think you've likely made up your mind about pool, so i don't expect you to agree, so i'll say this- if pool is an undercover quarter asian white supremacist, if you can find him espousing white supremacist ideas, then i will absolutely say i'm wrong. he's got thousands of hours of videos of him talking so it shouldn't be hard to find that. where we will agree is that white nationalists are scumbags, and i have no problem with anyone- its going down, or anyone else- pointing them out. 

 

i think we're done with tim pool, unless you have anything to show me about him (and if you do, PM me- i wouldn't support an actual white nationalist). when you said i was islamophobic regarding the MSA, was the post i quoted above the one you were talking about? if so, what part of that did you have a problem with? 

 

You went from him not being close to the alt right to him not being racist or a white nationalist.  

 

When was the last time he talked to somebody on the left?

 

If there's lots of evidence of him talking to people that are on the alt-right and no evidence talking to people on the left (recently), then it is hard to argue he's not close to the alt-right.

 

When did he last post a video in which he talked to somebody from the left, even indicated a conversation with somebody from the left, or filmed an event associated with the left?

 

It seems the vast majority of his recent videos are about him pushing ideas that come from the alt-right.

 

https://medium.com/@abegaustad/tim-pool-phony-liberal-67e409cd34ca

 

If that page is correct, it seems like he is certainly dabbling in alt-right conspiracy theories (that the DNC e-mails were an inside job done by Rich and not a hack by the Russians).

 

Now, he might not be a white supremacist, but that doesn't mean he's not close to them or sympathize with them.

 

 

Edited May 11, 2019 by PeterMP

[PeterMP]

And I'll also point out, that the more you talk about something the more important is going to come to you.  Even if something that you start at not really agreeing with.  If you are regularly hanging out with white supremacist and talking to them about their issues and hearing them talk about their issues, those issues are going to become more important to you.

 

(And this is one reason that Trump is so successful.  He has 2 issues; immigration from Mexico (not really illegal immigration because most studies show that most illegal immigrants are not going over the border from Mexico, but coming into this country other ways (and same for drugs and things like illegal guns)), and the economy in "middle" "blue collar" America.  And he just hammers them over and over again until they are on forefront of everybody's thoughts.

 

(Which is why i like to point and remind myself occasionally even, the southern border is more secure now than any time in US history.)

[grego]

59 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

Most studies show that most illegal immigrants are not going over the border from Mexico, but coming into this country other ways (and same for drugs and things like illegal guns)), and the economy in "middle" "blue collar" America.  And he just hammers them over and over again until they are on forefront of everybody's thoughts.

 

 

(Which is why i like to point and remind myself occasionally even, the southern border is more secure now than any time in US history.)

 

This is interesting. Can you elaborate? 

[PeterMP]

2 minutes ago, grego said:

 

This is interesting. Can you elaborate? 

 

On what?

 

Illegal immigrants are not mostly coming over the border from Mexico?

https://www.npr.org/2019/01/10/683662691/where-does-illegal-immigration-mostly-occur-heres-what-the-data-tell-us

 

Drugs?

https://www.npr.org/2019/04/06/710712195/how-do-illegal-drugs-cross-the-u-s-mexico-border

 

Guns?

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/01/12/462781469/in-mexico-tens-of-thousands-of-illegal-guns-come-from-the-u-s

 

(Guns are actually crossing the border the other way.  From the US to Mexico.

 

 

 

[Bozo the kKklown]

Oh, you have all finally realized @grego is an “intellectual” racist? He cites crap from the “intelligentsia” racist spectrum. He has become this board’s Richard Spencer-like.

Edited May 11, 2019 by BenningRoadSkin

[twa]

Seems odd to classify people we screen and allow in as the same as those that avoid those two things.

 

Is there a fundamental difference between a guest that won't leave and someone that crawls thru your window at night?

[PeterMP]

47 minutes ago, twa said:

Seems odd to classify people we screen and allow in as the same as those that avoid those two things.

 

Is there a fundamental difference between a guest that won't leave and someone that crawls thru your window at night?

 

I don't think think they are really directly avoiding those 2 things in most cases.  I think they don't have an opportunity to even get in the other way.  I suspect if you said, hey people from Central and S. America, we'll let you in as a "guest" and you can just overstay your welcome if you go through screening, many of them would happily do it.

 

If you want to argue there is a difference, that's up to you.  But before you try, I'd remind you which way the 9/11 highjackers came in and some of the people that carried out the first world trade center bombings.

 

And in terms of economic impact, which seems to be Trump's main issue, I'm not sure where they come from or how they got in matters.  But again, if you want to make that argument, you are welcome to try.

 

Though, if that's something you want to do, maybe take it to the immigration thread.  (Sorry, if I've taken this thread very OT.)

Edited May 11, 2019 by PeterMP