Miami Herald: I’m done trying to understand Trump supporters. Why don’t they try to understand me?

[DogofWar1]

Mix this with Evangelical teachings demanding subservience to a higher authority unquestionably.  Makes it very easy to overlook the glaring and obvious failures and lies of the authoritarian.

 

Like who even cares if the trade policy seems like it was crafted by a malicious toddler?  Who even caaaaaaaarrrreeeeeeesssss?  Trumpy said very nice things about my 90% white community so it's greeeeaaaaaaaatttt.

 

Oh well, America had a good run, but like all things, eras pass, and America just couldn't deal with the whole "diversity" thing.

[No Excuses]

28 minutes ago, DogofWar1 said:

.

 

Oh well, America had a good run, but like all things, eras pass, and America just couldn't deal with the whole "diversity" thing.

 

Small caveat: I don’t think “America” can’t deal with diversity. America has dealt with it just fine. 

 

Our society has progressively gotten better at uplifting people of all races and cultural backgrounds. We’ve all together benefited from diversity, both economically and culturally. The most economically successful group in America is non-white which is pretty remarkable considering our history. 

 

It is a specific segment of America that is deathly afraid of anything it can’t comprehend. And it shows no intention of actually bothering to learn and integrate.

 

There is a deep insecurity in white conservative America that is being expressed through a shift to authoritarianism and fascist behavior.

 

Ultimately the future of this country is in the hands of right leaning voters who haven’t completely lost their god damn minds like the core GOP base. There are signs that these voters are revolting against the GOP, at least in metropolitan suburbs.

[DogofWar1]

I agree and disagree at the same time, but presently lean toward disagree.

 

There are plenty of places in society where integration has worked perfectly.  But we have far too far to go to be backsliding as hard as we are right now.

 

The present system is too favorable to the forces that want to stop progress if not turn back the clock.  As you said, it's a specific segment, and that specific segment is a minority, but they benefit from a system that, thanks to population distribution, allows them to control the entire government, and there is no easy way to change that.  If the wobble between popular and representative votes in our system continue to deviate, then it's conceivable the authoritarian right will stay in power.

 

And if they do, America is over.  They will prevent further integration, and only the minorities they deem "worthy" will be uplifted and allowed to flourish.

 

But make no mistake, if Asian Americans ever threatened the White power structure that the authoritarian right supports, they'll get chopped back down real fast.

 

 

And sure, the future of this country might be in the hands of right leaning voters who haven't lost their minds, but look at the polling.  Trump's numbers among the GOP aren't exactly particularly dire.

 

And even if they stop supporting him, they need to get over the mental hump and actually support the most likely to win alternative.  Which the vast majority will jump through infinite hoops to avoid.  We see it everywhere.  When the chips are down, some will vote straight ticket, and others might not vote for him but they won't vote for the main rival.

 

The Richard Painters of the world are very VERY few and far between.  Are there enough to save America?

 

 

 

Case in point, a tale of two Lankfords:

 

 

 

Edited May 28, 2018 by DogofWar1

[Bozo the kKklown]

3 hours ago, No Excuses said:

Best of luck to America:

 

 

 

 

This is all woven in our laws.

 

 

Most whites conservatives support progressive laws and society until those laws start benefitting those with more color in their skin.

 

Edited May 28, 2018 by BenningRoadSkin

[nonniey]

6 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

This is all woven in our laws.

 

 

Most whites conservatives support progressive laws and society until those laws start benefitting those with more color in their skin.

 

Don't know about most (hope it is not) but yeah I agree with that statement it is why that particular group of conservatives left the Democratic party and sadly why minorities left the Republican party.  

[Riggo-toni]

[Larry]

19 hours ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

This is all woven in our laws.

 

 

Most whites conservatives support progressive laws and society until those laws start benefitting those with more color in their skin.

 

 

There was an article a while back, where the theme of the article was that poor whites were voting for Trump, because they thought he would cut welfare, even though they were on welfare, because they figured that well, they were only on welfare temporarily, but those black folks were on welfare their whole lives, and cutting welfare will hurt them moochers worse than it hurt them.  

 

They were knowingly voting against their own self interest, because they figured that it would hurt black people more.  

 

[No Excuses]

Roseanne Barr's racist and anti-semetic meltdown on twitter today is pretty interesting. I don't think she expected the backlash she received because right wing twitter is basically a cess pool of racism and junk conspiracy theories. This is their normal.

 

Also, the most visibly pro-Trump entertainer being a racist loon is a pretty good indicator that the GOP is indeed the party of racist nutjobs. Yes, we should stop trying to understand them and instead contemplate how we can make our society function when at a minimum 35% of the voter base is nuts.

Edited May 29, 2018 by No Excuses

[Warhead36]

On 5/28/2018 at 11:56 AM, No Excuses said:

 

Small caveat: I don’t think “America” can’t deal with diversity. America has dealt with it just fine. 

 

Our society has progressively gotten better at uplifting people of all races and cultural backgrounds. We’ve all together benefited from diversity, both economically and culturally. The most economically successful group in America is non-white which is pretty remarkable considering our history. 

 

It is a specific segment of America that is deathly afraid of anything it can’t comprehend. And it shows no intention of actually bothering to learn and integrate.

 

There is a deep insecurity in white conservative America that is being expressed through a shift to authoritarianism and fascist behavior.

 

Ultimately the future of this country is in the hands of right leaning voters who haven’t completely lost their god damn minds like the core GOP base. There are signs that these voters are revolting against the GOP, at least in metropolitan suburbs.

Agree with this.

 

There are still smart, reasonable conservative/Republicans. Ones that aren't completely brainwashed by Trump. Those people voted for Trump in 2016, but probably won't vote for him again(they may or may not vote Dem, worst case they don't vote at all).

 

We can't let the hateful and ignorant ruin this country.

[TheGreatBuzz]

I consider myself one of those conservatives.  I didn't vote Trump but I also didn't vote Hillary.  And I vote in Florida.

 

Yet when I say what I would want to vote Dem, I am told either the Left doesn't need/want my vote, that the candidates don't need to move more towards the middle, or that I need to just shut up and vote Dem because Trump.

 

Hate it break it to you but you aren't getting my (And the many like me) vote with that attitude.

[nonniey]

15 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I consider myself one of those conservatives.  I didn't vote Trump but I also didn't vote Hillary.  And I vote in Florida.

 

Yet when I say what I would want to vote Dem, I am told either the Left doesn't need/want my vote, that the candidates don't need to move more towards the middle, or that I need to just shut up and vote Dem because Trump.

 

Hate it break it to you but you aren't getting my (And the many like me) vote with that attitude.

They aren't listening to liberal writers when they are told this so the chances they will listen to you are between slim and none (Nah make that just none).

[Renegade7]

18 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I consider myself one of those conservatives.  I didn't vote Trump but I also didn't vote Hillary.  And I vote in Florida.

 

Yet when I say what I would want to vote Dem, I am told either the Left doesn't need/want my vote, that the candidates don't need to move more towards the middle, or that I need to just shut up and vote Dem because Trump.

 

Hate it break it to you but you aren't getting my (And the many like me) vote with that attitude.

What is it specifically you want democratic candidate to change in their platform for you to vote for them?  Any level, doesn't matter, can do president if you want.  You can post that in the "How to fix the Democratic Party" thread instead if you don't want to derail this one.

 

DNC is caught between a rock and hard place because their youth vote is primarily progressive.  They want to be Centrists as long as they can, but catering to progressives and moderate republicans at the same team isn't easy (regardless of the perception of how hard they are "trying").

 

My dad said that not a single soul reached out to him in regards to voting for Trump.  The assumption was he wouldn't no matter what so no one bothered, I had similar experience, so it goes both ways.  I actually got a meet Scott Rigell, but by time I was ready to vote for him, he said he wouldn't run anymore (still bummed about that, would've been my first GOP vote, dead serious).

[TheGreatBuzz]

6 minutes ago, nonniey said:

They aren't listening to liberal writers when they are told this so the chances they will listen to you are between slim and none (Nah make that just none).

I just want to be able to say "I told you so" when they can't figure out how Elizibeth Warren loses to Trump in 2020.

[visionary]

5 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I just want to be able to say "I told you so" when they can't figure out how Elizibeth Warren loses to Trump in 2020.

Don't go all TWA on us.

 

[Destino]

53 minutes ago, No Excuses said:

Roseanne Barr's racist and anti-semetic meltdown on twitter today is pretty interesting. I don't think she expected the backlash she received because right wing twitter is basically a cess pool of racism and junk conspiracy theories. This is their normal.

 

Also, the most visibly pro-Trump entertainer being a racist loon is a pretty good indicator that the GOP is indeed the party of racist nutjobs. Yes, we should stop trying to understand them and instead contemplate how we can make our society function when at a minimum 35% of the voter base is nuts.

 

I wonder how awkward it is for her now that her stupid twitter rant got the show canceled.  She's known all those other actors for a very long time and they're all now shamed by their association with her and out of a paycheck.  I hope she's drenched in shame over it, but I doubt it.   

[Springfield]

Ha!  Roseanne got cancelled.

 

at least the right still has Last Man Standing coming back.

[nonniey]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

Agree with this.

 

There are still smart, reasonable conservative/Republicans. Ones that aren't completely brainwashed by Trump. Those people voted for Trump in 2016, but probably won't vote for him again(they may or may not vote Dem, worst case they don't vote at all).

 

We can't let the hateful and ignorant ruin this country.

Yes they will vote for him again depending on how successful he is in areas of common interest. Question is will the conservatives that didn't vote for him still not vote for him - it gets back to how successful he is policy wise. (I won't myself because of the identity politics thing but others will). 

Edited May 29, 2018 by nonniey

[No Excuses]

37 minutes ago, Destino said:

 

I wonder how awkward it is for her now that her stupid twitter rant got the show canceled.  She's known all those other actors for a very long time and they're all now shamed by their association with her and out of a paycheck.  I hope she's drenched in shame over it, but I doubt it.   

 

There will be a massive doubling down on the persecution complex. 

 

There are enough grifters on the right ready to pounce on a good culture war opportunity, even if it means supporting a racist lunatic like Roseanne. 

 

I give it 48 hours until Fox and Friends runs a segment on her and Trump tweets in her support. 

[TheGreatBuzz]

2 minutes ago, Destino said:

 

I wonder how awkward it is for her now that her stupid twitter rant got the show canceled.  She's known all those other actors for a very long time and they're all now shamed by their association with her and out of a paycheck.  I hope she's drenched in shame over it, but I doubt it.   

Did they cancel the show?  I hadn't heard that.  EDIT:  just saw it on the news.

9 minutes ago, visionary said:

Don't go all TWA on us.

 

Well hope the Left doesn't nominate someone that would cause me to do so then.

17 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

What is it specifically you want democratic candidate to change in their platform for you to vote for them?  Any level, doesn't matter, can do president if you want.  You can post that in the "How to fix the Democratic Party" thread instead if you don't want to derail this one.

 

DNC is caught between a rock and hard place because their youth vote is primarily progressive.  They want to be Centrists as long as they can, but catering to progressives and moderate republicans at the same team isn't easy (regardless of the perception of how hard they are "trying").

 

My dad said that not a single soul reached out to him in regards to voting for Trump.  The assumption was he wouldn't no matter what so no one bothered, I had similar experience, so it goes both ways.  I actually got a meet Scott Rigell, but by time I was ready to vote for him, he said he wouldn't run anymore (still bummed about that, would've been my first GOP vote, dead serious).

Regarding the bolded part, and this is one place where Hillary failed, the candidate/party needs to make me think they actually believe what they are saying and not just blowing in the wind.

 

I've done this a few times (saying where I disagree with the Left) so I'll keep it short:

 

Minimum wage.  No way I support $15 an hour.  I could support a raise but not that drastic.  Honestly I would like to see it a % of the economy in an area.  But Joe Blow in bfe, Utah doesn't need $15 especially when compared to the guy doing the same job in downtown Seattle.

 

Immigration.  Have a real plan to fix it.  I do not support blanket amnesty.  I could support amnesty for some steller performers but I believe in the "illegal" portion of illegal immigration.  Make it easier for someone to become a citizen but if they don't, deport them.  And sort of on this same line, make English the national language.  

 

Ease off the throttle on equality.  I am all for equality.  I don't really give a crap what bathroom you use.  But I feel like part of the reason we are so divided right now is because we are trying to move too far, too fast.  

 

Downsize the Fed government.  Not much to expand on here.

 

States Rights.  Make this more of a priority.  De-criminalize weed at the federal level and lets states decide.  There needs to be some line where states are allowed to make their rules but other states need to respect them.  I used the cure for the gay marriage debate was to let state's decide but require them to honor other states.  If AL has it illegal but I get married in FL which allows it, AL has to treat me as married.

 

Campaign finance.  If you are going to say you are against Wall Street, then let me know why they are filling your coffers.  Do as I say, etc doesn't fly here.

 

Free college.  Nope.  Maybe at the community college level but that is it.  But build on training for blue collar jobs.  And review how the majority of Fed jobs require a degree when you don't really need one to do the job.  And don't forgive student debt.  Instead push for more financial awareness classes at the grade school level so they know what to look for when they sign a contract (because that is what you college loan paperwork is).

 

Personal responsibility.  This seems wholly missing for the Dem platform.  It is not the job of the government to fix everything for you.  I read the whole Dem platform and too much of it boiled down to "you made bad decisions?  I'm sorry, let me fix that for you."

 

Gun control.  This is the biggest for me.  Support of a blanket assault weapon ban is an immediate non-starter for me.  I am on record for increasing many aspects of gun control but bringing the "scary looking gun" ban back will immediately lose my vote.  Any politician that wants to discuss gun control at all needs to be able to show that they at least know something about guns also.  I could probably even be convinced to vote for controls that I don't actually agree with if I believed it was coming from an informed position.

 

This is some things off the top of my head.  All but 1 are negotiable.  But put together they become more straws on the camel's back.

 

*I don't mean this to be an in-depth discussion of any one point.  If someone wants to do that, we should probably go to the appropriate thread.  I was just giving a quick rundown.

[No Excuses]

1 hour ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

 

 

Hate it break it to you but you aren't getting my (And the many like me) vote with that attitude.

 

I won’t vote for Democrats because liberal are mean is peak 2018 conservative. 

 

Also, I read your post above. You basically want the Dems to be the GOP minus the racism and sexism. Not gonna happen. 

Edited May 29, 2018 by No Excuses

[TheGreatBuzz]

3 minutes ago, No Excuses said:

I won’t vote for Democrats because liberal are mean is peak 2018 conservative

Stick with that thinking and enjoy Trump 2020 (assuming we still have a country at that point).

 

4 minutes ago, No Excuses said:

Also, I read your post above. You basically want the Dems to be the GOP minus the racism and sexism. Not gonna happen.

Considering the size of the post and how quickly you responded, I am guessing you didn't actually put any thought into any of it.  Not surprised.

 

I didn't say they needed to change all of it.  I was just pointing out where I disagreed with the Left.  I even specifically said

6 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

All but 1 are negotiable.

 

[No Excuses]

2 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

 

 

Considering the size of the post and how quickly you responded, I am guessing you didn't actually put any thought into any of it.  Not surprised.

 

 

 

I’m a fast reader. 

 

Also, a huge number of Dems running for office in 2018 are disavowing Wall St funding and corporate cash. Most serious 2020 Dem Presideintial candidates have made the same pledge. 

 

I also think you haven’t really read the Democratic platform if you think it doesn’t hold people responsible for their choices. Supporting social safety nets does not indicate that you want people to be free from the consequences of their decisions.

[TheGreatBuzz]

2 minutes ago, No Excuses said:

 

I’m a fast reader. 

 

Also, a huge number of Dems running for office in 2018 are disavowing Wall St funding and corporate cash. Most serious 2020 Dem Presideintial candidates have made the same pledge. 

 

I also think you haven’t really read the Democratic platform if you think it doesn’t hold people responsible for their choices. Supporting social safety nets does not indicate that you want people to be free from the consequences of their decisions.

I havent even started looking at 2020 candidates so I dont know what they are saying.

 

So what parts makes everything I said makes it the GOP rebranded?  Was it the free Community College? Or legalizing marijuana at the federal level? Or was it the raise of the minimum wage just not to $15 an hour? No, it must have been the increased gun controls! Totally a GOP talking point.

[Renegade7]

@TheGreatBuzz , hate to break it to you, but @No Excuses is right, you're either asking for too much or things we're already talking about anyway. 

 

The "personal responsibility" thing is really weak, like where you are born is your decision.  I hate that you don't want to forgive any student loan debt and instead of addressing why people are defaulting, you want to give classes to let them know how rediculously expensive it is even though they have to do it anyway to stay competitive in the current job market.

 

This should be its own thread "How can DNC reach out to conservatives that don't want to vote for Trump", but a lot of what you're talking about indicates you aren't listening to us, either.  If you want us to be the GOP lite, fix your own party, shrinking the federal government is the opposite of our political ideology, that is an unreasonable request right there..

[TradeTheBeal!]

The DNC can’t fix the GOP, only GOP voters can do that.

 

Get in there and fight, Buzz.