Miami Herald: I’m done trying to understand Trump supporters. Why don’t they try to understand me?

[Kilmer17]

1 hour ago, No Excuses said:

While the pissing match in this thread was going on, Virginia voted in favor of Medicaid Expansion. It is the 34th state in the nation to do so.

 

Despite the Dems getting their butts kicked since 2010, the country has moved to the left on many major policy fronts.

States Rights is an awesome concept!

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, tshile said:

I don’t care. I can’t stand trump but I’m not the one being hurt by him either. 

 

[PeterMP]

And I'll add, he's going to get 40% of the vote pretty much no matter what and he isn't going to need more votes than the Democrat to win.

 

It isn't unlikely that the Democrat will get 44% of the vote, he'll get 42%, some combination of 3rd parties get the rest, and he wins the election.

Edited May 31, 2018 by PeterMP

[CousinsCowgirl84]

How is it not Hillary and the Democrats fault she lost? They worked to actively rig the primaries. I’m sure that pissed of some of the base. She campaigned heavily in states that were a shoe in, but rarely in battle ground states.  She was going up against a weak candidate. Trump did not run a good campaign....

 

What some are doing is blaming the thief for stealing the car that you left running in a bad part of town. The thief did take it, that’s true, but you had to have seen it comming. Lock that **** up.

Edited May 31, 2018 by CousinsCowgirl84

[twa]

In her defense she didn't expect many of the states to be battlegrounds.

 

[Renegade7]

Why in God's green earth are we talking about Hillary again?  

[twa]

Just now, Renegade7 said:

Why in God's green earth are we talking about Hillary again?  

 

Because that was one EPIC loss.

 

Gonna be talking bout that for years.

[PeterMP]

2 hours ago, tshile said:

In the grand scheme of what trump is doing and where I am in life, I’m pretty far down the list. 

 

At worst my taxes went up a little. They’ll go up more in 7 years if nothing changes, we’ll see. That’ll really suck but I’ll deal with it. 

 

But im just not smart so I’ll just shut the **** up. 

 

You guys seem real smart, maybe you can actually beat that dumbass next time. 

 

We have a fundamental problem that a large part of the electorate has divorced their votes from reality.  You've even commented on this recently with respect to your discussion of trickle down economics, and you can see it in the Rosanne thread where @Bangtalked about his interactions with somebody about the Whoopi t-shirt issue.

 

And this has been a long time in coming.  I don't know what thread it was in recently, but I made a comment about how this started at least in the late 1980s with Rush and Larry one upped by talking about Rush even going back further.

 

This hasn't been the work of dumb people or been something that happened quickly, and it isn't something that is going to be undone quickly.

 

And it is going to require everybody that doesn't believe things like what Rosanne is posting on their twitter to recognize that this election is going to (most likely) come down to a choice between an ethical government that is seen by the rest of the representative governments in the world as an honest broker that has an honest interest in making the world a better place or a government of corruption that is only interested in maintaining power and accumulating wealth for the few (Trump and his associates).

 

And that all of us benefit from the 1st more than the 2nd in the long term.

Edited May 31, 2018 by PeterMP

[Renegade7]

1 minute ago, twa said:

 

Because that was one EPIC loss.

 

Gonna be talking bout that for years.

This isn't a thread about the 2016 election.  It's about why Trump supporters won't listen to anyone that disagrees with them.  Typically response is to start talking about Hillary.

 

Did you even read the article in the OP?  This has nothing to do with Hillary, there's a core part of this country that is terrified of becoming just another minority group.  That's a core issue that needs an honest conversation, we'll be a different country when that click over happens.

 

Maybe we need a 2016 Election Retrospective Thread for everyone to go on an endless loop in go on an endless loop in go on an endless loop in.  

[twa]

 

A

5 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

we'll be a different country when that click over happens.

we'll be a different country when that click over happens.

 

Already happened here...same old country

Edited May 31, 2018 by twa

[PeterMP]

46 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

How is it not Hillary and the Democrats fault she lost? They worked to actively rig the primaries. I’m sure that pissed of some of the base. She campaigned heavily in states that were a shoe in, but rarely in battle ground states.  She was going up against a weak candidate. Trump did not run a good campaign....

 

What some are doing is blaming the thief for stealing the car that you left running in a bad part of town. The thief did take it, that’s true, but you had to have seen it comming. Lock that **** up.

 

First, there is no known relationship between campaign stops and voting results.  I mean just intellectually have you ever said, hey this person made a campaign stop near me so I'm going to vote for them.  People have looked for changes in polling/election results based on campaign stops at ends of elections, and there is no evidence that is has an effect.  Do you know anybody that was honestly undecided and went to a campaign event the last 2 weeks of an election? So the first part of your post, your suggesting something that isn't even supported.

 

Second, in terms of where they went, there really wasn't that much of a difference.

 

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-last-10-weeks-of-2016-campaign-stops-in-one-handy-gif/

 

Trump makes more (shorter and faster trips), but they are going to essentially the same places.  Hillary makes two fund raising trips to deep blue CA, while Trump makes one fund raising trip in deep red Texas.

 

So that part of your post is based on myth that can essentially be shown to be false.

 

Lastly, Trump didn't run a bad campaign.  He understands how to use tv, publicity, and is an effective bullier and setting the story and agenda.  He knows how to use a lie and repeating it to set a narrative that people remember and affects them.

 

Trump isn't dumb.  He knows what he's doing.  And so do the likes of Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity. They've gotten rich doing it and have lots of practice.  (And even Alex Jones.)

Edited May 31, 2018 by PeterMP

[TheGreatBuzz]

5 hours ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Well look, if you want me to say that a President Trump is the Democrats fault, I can’t help you. Yes, the Democrats can run a better candidate than Hillary but yes also to:

 

-Hillary being one billion times more qualified than Trump

-Obama (and Comey, and Mueller, et all) being demonized the same as Hillary

-Whoever the democratic nominee ends up being getting the exact same treatment.

Trump is the fault of the Democrats.  He is also the fault of Republicans.  He is the fault of Americans!!! (and Russians)

4 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

I think the party of personal responsibility really should take responsibility for the pieces of **** they vote for and elect, but what do I know?

Well it sounds like someone is finally admitting that the Left is not a party of personal responsibility.

4 hours ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

I get it guys. You still want to hold out some hope that what used to be the Republican Party is redeemable.

Not me.  They just need to die.  Doesn't mean I can't say the Left royally ****ed up though.

3 hours ago, Llevron said:

Didnt a few of yall saying its the dems fault vote for the 3rd party? Please shut the **** up if so. Honestly, you yourself hurt us more than any dem. Including Hilldog. All you had to do was the right thing and you couldn't even do that. You have zero room to point fingers. 

You can feel that way.  Any chance you are willing to admit the Left might have made a mistake by not being able to draw us in?

3 hours ago, PeterMP said:

I don't care if the Democrats nominate the stupidest, laziest, most far left, least charismatic, the most easily vilified person and the worse campaigner they can find, assuming the person shows the least bit ability and interest in differentiating fact from fiction and support of the institutions that are important for us remaining a representative government, if Donald Trump is re-elected, the primary blame for his re-election will be the people that voted for him.

The country needs a leader.  Would you dispute that?

 

Do you know what a leader is?  One main factor is the willingness to openly and publicly admit when you ****ed up.  So you need a candidate that can say "yes I voted/supported X.  That was wrong.  I see that now."  The other is the ability to motivate the difficult people to do what you want.  There are many different strategies for this.  But you all need to remember that someone needs to be the leader of America.  And that includes the dumbass Trump voters.  You won't get them all.  A leader knows some people need to be written off.  But an attempt has to be made.  And if you are a true leader, you will get a decent number of them.  People can piss and moan about Republican voters.  But they need to remember they are still Amercians.  And they still matter.

 

Obama was probably the best at this that we have had for a while.  But the country was too far split.  And the Left didn't do him many favors in assisting him in leading.

22 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

How is it not Hillary and the Democrats fault she lost? They worked to actively rig the primaries. I’m sure that pissed of some of the base. She campaigned heavily in states that were a shoe in, but rarely in battle ground states.  She was going up against a weak candidate. Trump did not run a good campaign....

 

What some are doing is blaming the thief for stealing the car that you left running in a bad part of town. The thief did take it, that’s true, but you had to have seen it comming. Lock that **** up.

Pretty much how I feel.  I got no problem admitting the GOP sucks and people still supporting Trump are idiots.  But the Left seems to struggle admitting they ****ed up.  I fear if they don't learn from it, the same will happen in 2020.

 

 

 

Also, I would like to point out that the Left wanted us to elect Hillary and trust she could defeat Russia, China, North Korea, Syria, and whoever else but should couldn't even defeat DONALD TRUMP!!!!

[Renegade7]

16 minutes ago, twa said:

 

A

we'll be a different country when that click over happens.

 

Already happened here...same old country

 

Ya'll are also one of the most gerrymandered states in the country with huge segment of your Hispanic population either too young to vote or not allowed to.  The point of the thread has been trying to slow down this demographic change or impact of it, you aren't an exception, you're a primary example.  It's actually not easy to say how many Hispanics there are in Texas because so many of them are terrified of the government, coming out to try to get citizenship is not safe at all.

 

This is sad, really sad.  Ya'll aren't trying to understand anyone, that's the point of the article.

Edited May 31, 2018 by Renegade7

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

13 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Trump is the fault of the Democrats.  He is also the fault of Republicans.  He is the fault of Americans!!! (and Russians)

But more accurately, he’s the fault of the GOP.

 

Seriously, how is this a debate? Because the Democrats ran Hillary? Ok, watch me cast this right wing wizard spell....

 

ALTERNATIVEFACTO HORSE****OUTOFMYASS-O!!

 

It’s the Republicans’ fault that they ran Hillary. Tah-da.

Edited May 31, 2018 by Sacks 'n' Stuff

[PeterMP]

26 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Do you know what a leader is?  One main factor is the willingness to openly and publicly admit when you ****ed up.  So you need a candidate that can say "yes I voted/supported X.  That was wrong.  I see that now."  The other is the ability to motivate the difficult people to do what you want.  There are many different strategies for this.  But you all need to remember that someone needs to be the leader of America.  And that includes the dumbass Trump voters.  You won't get them all.  A leader knows some people need to be written off.  But an attempt has to be made.  And if you are a true leader, you will get a decent number of them.  People can piss and moan about Republican voters.  But they need to remember they are still Amercians.  And they still matter.

 

Obama was probably the best at this that we have had for a while.  But the country was too far split.  And the Left didn't do him many favors in assisting him in leading.

 

Also, I would like to point out that the Left wanted us to elect Hillary and trust she could defeat Russia, China, North Korea, Syria, and whoever else but should couldn't even defeat DONALD TRUMP!!!!

 

1.  I think the idea of a leader is over stated.  I think we need more individuals to step up and say what can I do better.  How can I better check myself?  Do I believe/think things are reasonable and realistic.  (You know, personal responsibility.)

 

2.  Nobody has said Trump voters don't matter.  Democrats have continually pushed ideas and programs to help Trump voters.  The people representing Trump voters won't vote for them.  But in terms of votes, it is hard to reach people that have limited where they get their "news" and especially when said sources of "news" are deliberately dishonest and they don't recognize it.

 

How do you reach those people?

 

3.  You seem to be insinuating that Hillary never admitted she made a mistake.  Right off the top of my head, look at the "super predator" and the prison complex debate from the last election.

 

If you want to see somebody that never admits a mistake, try looking at Trump.

 

4.  I don't think anybody said she could beat all of those countries. Realistically, all of them have been issues the last 30 years (Syria is really just another manifestation of Islamic extremism). 

Edited May 31, 2018 by PeterMP

[TheGreatBuzz]

2 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

But more accurately, he’s the fault of the GOP.

 

Seriously, how is this a debate? Because the Democrats ran Hillary? Ok, watch me cast this right wing wizard spell....

 

ALTERNATIVEFACTO HORSE****OUTOFMYASS-O!!

 

The right made them run Hillary. Boom.

Say what you want.  I have admitted the GOP holds responsibility.  That doesn't mean they are the only ones.  I think if the Left carries your mindset, Trump will win again.  We can all make guesses but only 2020 will tell.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

Just now, TheGreatBuzz said:

Say what you want.  I have admitted the GOP holds responsibility.  That doesn't mean they are the only ones.  I think if the Left carries your mindset, Trump will win again.  We can all make guesses but only 2020 will tell.

If the left carried my mindset, they’d be ripping Trump and the entire GOP a new asshole on a daily basis.

 

They’d also nominate a better candidate next time.

[twa]

10 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Ya'll are also one of the most gerrymandered states in the country with huge segment of your Hispanic population either too young to vote or not allowed to.  The point of the thread has been trying to slow down this demographic change or impact of it, you aren't an exception, you're a primary example.  It's actually not easy to say how many Hispanics there are in Texas because so many of them are terrified of the government, coming out to try to get citizenship is not safe at all.

 

This is sad, really sad.  Ya'll aren't trying to understand anyone, that's the point of the article.

 

Gerrymandered as hell, by the ****ing courts and the old VRA.

At least a million Hispanics are illegals here....more than several states populations

 

I understand well amigo.

[Llevron]

11 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

This is sad, really sad.  Ya'll aren't trying to understand anyone, that's the point of the article.

 

Exactly. And honestly I'm tired of trying to pretend it's all good. Half of these cats are just arguing cause they have already picked a side. One dude KNOWS he is dead wrong so he dismissed himself and in the process said its everyone's fault but his. Its beneath them yet it is SO them. 

 

18 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

 

You can feel that way.  Any chance you are willing to admit the Left might have made a mistake by not being able to draw us in?

 

I said earlier in the thread that we need to win YOU in particular, so, yes. We should have tried to get you cats and I hope we do next time. 

 

21 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Trump is the fault of the Democrats.  He is also the fault of Republicans.  He is the fault of Americans!!! (and Russians)

 

Much more fair, but still arguable. 

[TheGreatBuzz]

@PeterMP

 

1.  I agree to a point.  But a leader is who motivates them to do this.

2.  Yes but the Dems have not done a good job of dumbing it down to the level of Trump voters.  The election results show this.

3.  I'm not saying Hillary didn't admit mistakes.  But she always had an excuse for them.  And she also didn't admit many mistakes.  She came across as fake when she did admit to them.

4.  The expectation of a President is they could beat an enemy if needed.  Hillary couldn't even beat Trump.  I trust Obama could have beaten him.  I think he was a great leader even if I didn't agree with all his positions. 

 

3 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

If the left carried my mindset, they’d be ripping Trump and the entire GOP a new asshole on a daily basis.

 

They’d also nominate a better candidate next time.

Go for it.  On both points.

 

But if you are going to rip the Right, you need to figure out the right way to do it.

 

I've led many people.  Some need to be yelled at.  Some need to be sat down and explained why they are wrong.  Some a simple "I'm disappointed in you" will work.  It is about knowing how to reach different people.  The Left needs to figure this out on a larger scale.

 

People can piss and moan about how horrible the GOP is and say how bad they are for the country.  And I won't even disagree.  But there is a reason they are in power.  The Left has a problem thrown at their feet.  How are they going to fix it?  Problem solving is what is needed in a good leader of the country.

3 minutes ago, Llevron said:

I said earlier in the thread that we need to win YOU in particular, so, yes.

So what are you (the proverbial you) going to do to get me?  And what do you want me to do?

3 minutes ago, Llevron said:

Much more fair, but still arguable.

Argue away.  That's why we are here.

[Renegade7]

8 minutes ago, twa said:

 

Gerrymandered as hell, by the ****ing courts and the old VRA.

At least a million Hispanics are illegals here....more than several states populations

 

I understand well amigo.

Show me how this wasn't done to GOP advantage.

 

That many illegals tells me ya'll dont want them legal, point of the article.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

Trying to reach Trumpers is a complete waste. What they need to do is motivate people who sat at home to get out and vote.

[tshile]

2 minutes ago, Llevron said:

One dude KNOWS he is dead wrong so he dismissed himself and in the process said its everyone's fault but his.

 

I dismissed myself because you’ve become a complete asshole in political threads. You come in here’s telling people to shut the **** up because they don’t agree with you. 

 

You’ve been trending this way for a while. You’ve become emotional in your bubble. 

 

[Renegade7]

5 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

Exactly. And honestly I'm tired of trying to pretend it's all good. Half of these cats are just arguing cause they have already picked a side. One dude KNOWS he is dead wrong so he dismissed himself and in the process said its everyone's fault but his. Its beneath them yet it is SO them. 

 

See who has jokes if blue wave is real.

[TheGreatBuzz]

2 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Trying to reach Trumpers is a complete waste. What they need to do is motivate people who sat at home to get out and vote.

Well seeing as how it is ~40% of the country, writing them off probably isn't a good move.  But you are welcome to try.  Let me know how that works out.  Though it should be remembered that those 40% are the ones who have the majority of the guns.

Just now, Renegade7 said:

See who has jokes if blue wave is real.

And if it isn't real?