Welcome to the Washington Redskins Trey Quinn WR SMU

[Anselmheifer]

It seems like Cooley might like Quinn because they were similar prospects. Not because they were white, but because they were both super productive coming out of college, lacked elite athletic numbers, but were heady players with great hands that knew how to separate and get open. 

[skinny21]

One subtle thing that Quinn does (which I love), is he really sells his double moves with his body language.  You can see that he’s not just going through the motions - he actually turns his head to ‘look for the ball’, for example.  He also seems to understand how to use his speed - varying it depending on timing.  While his speed ain’t great, knowing how to use it effectively makes up for some of that lack.  

 

Not having any elite/special athletic traits (besides hand size) - speed, burst, height, vertical - I don’t see him ever becoming a special player... but he can be(come) quite good by playing smart and consistently catching the ball.  

 

I have a hunch he and Smith will pair well together in this offense by next year.  

[Renegade7]

It's amazing how many of ya'll are ready to get rid of Crowder right now.  Dude was an overachieving surprise his rookie year, then came back down to earth in an underachieving offense, now some of ya'll want to replace him with the last pick in the draft who hasn't played a single snap in the NFL?  My prediction:  Both will be on this team for a while, but neither will ever be starters (and they don't need to be).

[skinny21]

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

It's amazing how many of ya'll are ready to get rid of Crowder right now.  Dude was an overachieving surprise his rookie year, then came back down to earth in an underachieving offense, now some of ya'll want to replace him with the last pick in the draft who hasn't played a single snap in the NFL?  My prediction:  Both will be on this team for a while, but neither will ever be starters (and they don't need to be).

Well, at least from my point of view, I don’t want to get rid of Crowder, but I want to be in a position that we can let him walk.  Particularly as he’ll be set to command a pretty good contract next year he deserves it), and we are set to be pretty tight to the cap next year.  

 

Might not work out for us in that way, but I like the idea of succession planning, especially if it means we aren’t 1) over a barrel with a player, and 2) scrambling for a replacement in the moment.  

[Renegade7]

3 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Well, at least from my point of view, I don’t want to get rid of Crowder, but I want to be in a position that we can let him walk.  Particularly as he’ll be set to command a pretty good contract next year he deserves it), and we are set to be pretty tight to the cap next year.  

 

Might not work out for us in that way, but I like the idea of succession planning, especially if it means we aren’t 1) over a barrel with a player, and 2) scrambling for a replacement in the moment.  

As a "just in case" pick, I can respect that, and how I saw it, too.  I just don't think we're there yet to be believing we have to make that kind of decision. From what I can tell on over the cap and spotrac, we have between $12-$13 million right now. We should have the same in 2019 before we start cutting people, so giving Crowder something between the $1-2 million he's making now and the $4-5 million Richardson is making doesn't feel out the question for a #3 WR.

[skinny21]

5 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

As a "just in case" pick, I can respect that, and how I saw it, too.  I just don't think we're there yet to be believing we have to make that kind of decision. From what I can tell on over the cap and spotrac, we have between $12-$13 million right now. We should have the same in 2019 before we start cutting people, so giving Crowder something between the $1-2 million he's making now and the $4-5 million Richardson is making doesn't feel out the question for a #3 WR.

Well, Richardson (who doesn’t have nearly the production Crowder does) is at 4.5 mil this year, but that jumps to 7.5, 8, 10 and 10.  

 

But then we get into a major cap discussion - do we cut Norman and Reed, how much will Scherff and Smith cost, do we sign other players, do we extend Ioannidas, Swearinger, Doctson, etc.

 

The point is, there’s a very real possibility the FO chooses not to extend/re-sign Crowder.  Quinn represents, as you say, that just in case backup plan.  

[Renegade7]

10 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Well, Richardson (who doesn’t have nearly the production Crowder does) is at 4.5 mil this year, but that jumps to 7.5, 8, 10 and 10.  

 

But then we get into a major cap discussion - do we cut Norman and Reed, how much will Scherff and Smith cost, do we sign other players, do we extend Ioannidas, Swearinger, Doctson, etc.

 

The point is, there’s a very real possibility the FO chooses not to extend/re-sign Crowder.  Quinn represents, as you say, that just in case backup plan.  

 

Your point that Richardson's production doesn't equal Crowder doesn't make sense, not yet anyways.  Richardson is expected to be the opposite starter to Doctson, he'll be expected to outproduce Crowder.  If he doesn't the argument should be to get rid of him, not Crowder, not if he's heading towards $10 million a year.

 

I would've better understood if you started with their production being equal and commanding equal pay, both were in the 700-800 yards receiving range last year, Crowder with 3 TDs, but Richardson with 6.  I feel like we overpayed Richardson based on potential and that we're in better shape then you think, and I don't want to give them equal, that'd mean both of them would be making more then Doctson. Preston and Crowder are only two major FA next year, I'd come after Vernon Davis's and McGee's contract first and here Crowder's demands before preparing to let him walk:

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/washington-redskins/yearly/cap/

 

For example, by time Scherff contract comes up, Trent will have only one year left.  By then, we'll know if we need to give Scherff a contract that waits a season before jumping like Richardson does, or restructure/cut Trent.  The "do we sign people" discussion makes sense, but we haven't even gotten to preseason yet to see what we do or don't need.  LG is biggest weakness on the team, imo, that should be a draft pick, not a FA. 

 

 

[skinny21]

2 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Your point that Richardson's production doesn't equal Crowder doesn't make sense, not yet anyways.  Richardson is expected to be the opposite starter to Doctson, he'll be expected to outproduce Crowder.  If he doesn't the argument should be to get rid of him, not Crowder, not if he's heading towards $10 million a year.

Career-wise, my impression was that Crowder has outperformed Richardson.      If I’m right about that, than I stand by my comment.  I think Crowder is going to get a pretty decent contract in the neighborhood of 6-9 mil/year.  If you disagree, that’s fine.  

2 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I would've better understood if you started with their production being equal and commanding equal pay, both were in the 700-800 yards receiving range last year, Crowder with 3 TDs, but Richardson with 6.  I feel like we overpayed Richardson based on potential and that we're in better shape then you think, and I don't want to give them equal, that'd mean both of them would be making more then Doctson. Preston and Crowder are only two major FA next year, I'd come after Vernon Davis's and McGee's contract first and here Crowder's demands before preparing to let him walk:

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/washington-redskins/yearly/cap/

 

For example, by time Scherff contract comes up, Trent will have only one year left.  By then, we'll know if we need to give Scherff a contract that waits a season before jumping like Richardson does, or restructure/cut Trent.  The "do we sign people" discussion makes sense, but we haven't even gotten to preseason yet to see what we do or don't need.  LG is biggest weakness on the team, imo, that should be a draft pick, not a FA. 

 

 

Extensions (as I’m sure you know) usually occur in the last year of a contract... so Scherff, Ioannidas, Swearinger and others will be due next year.  Again, we’re getting into the cap weeds.  The point is that 1) we may not have much cap space next year, 2) therefore we may have to make a tough choice (or a few/several), and 3) letting Crowder walk, especially (maybe only) if coaches like what they see from Quinn, could be one of those tough decisions.  

 

 

You essentially asked why people were ready to get rid of Crowder, and why people are thinking Quinn can replace him.  

 

1.  Why do people think Quinn can perform as our slot receiver?  He’s got some nice tools for the position, showed some good things on tape, and Gruden apparently wanted him badly.  

 

2.  Why are people seemingly going overboard about Quinn?  Well, a lot of this answer is cover in points 1 and 3... but also it’s just the nature of it.  Fans love when we find diamonds in the rough/underdogs, and Mr. Irrelevant is the extreme case of that.  

 

3.  Why do people want to move on from Crowder?  Putting aside the negative impact he had at times last year, this kind of situation is how teams use the draft to succession plan and therefore help manage their cap, right?  Ideally, we wind up with a capable slot receiver at a far lesser cost and we add another comp pick.  I will agree with you here though that there’s a reasonable chance they re-sign/extend Crowder.  Far from a sure thing though IMO.  

 

And just FYI, this is coming from someone who thinks Crowder is a top 5 (pure) slot receiver.  

[Renegade7]

@skinny21  This is one of those things that for me its just too early to tell, too many factors and data that we need but won't have until either halfway through the season, maybe later.

 

Pretty much everything you said you know I understand already (thanks for the benefit of the doubt).  I do believe a lot of fans are so mad at Crowder from last year they want him to go, and looking at this Quinn guy for a possible replacement (that's what fans do, we get overexcited about potential).  But that's exactly what it is, potential.  Me asking why we keep doing that was just me talking out loud, I know why we do that, I'm gushing over our front 7 even though Payne has played a single regular season snap yet : )

 

I believe Crowder is underrated and we're better off keeping him, but if he plays like last year, I'm not going to want to give him $6-$9 million a year, even if I know we can make room for it.  I really should just stay out of this thread until at least mid-August.

[carex]

On 5/26/2018 at 2:13 PM, Renegade7 said:

It's amazing how many of ya'll are ready to get rid of Crowder right now.  Dude was an overachieving surprise his rookie year, then came back down to earth in an underachieving offense, now some of ya'll want to replace him with the last pick in the draft who hasn't played a single snap in the NFL?  My prediction:  Both will be on this team for a while, but neither will ever be starters (and they don't need to be).

 

most people consider the top slot receiver essentially a starter and I'm not sure how often you have  backup wide receiver who can only play one spot. Also the simple fact is Crowder may be a high dollar free agent we can't afford

[Renegade7]

2 minutes ago, carex said:

 

most people consider the top slot receiver essentially a starter and I'm not sure how often you have  backup wide receiver who can only play one spot. Also the simple fact is Crowder may be a high dollar free agent we can't afford

 

I don't even know if you saw my other posts concerning the cap, but dude, Crowder can play multiple spots.  Are you expecting Quinn to and he hasn't played a snap yet?

[mistertim]

3 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I don't even know if you saw my other posts concerning the cap, but dude, Crowder can play multiple spots.  Are you expecting Quinn to and he hasn't played a snap yet?

 

Just because Crowder can play other spots doesn't mean he's all that great at it. When watching him lined up as a Z or even an X sometimes last season I wasn't very impressed. He doesn't have the moves or size or speed/acceleration to get off press or man coverage consistently and beat a top CB as an X and as a Z receiver he's a bit better but still it's not a great match up because you're Z is almost always also going to be going up against a corner, even though he's off the LOS. IMO Crowder is hands down a top notch Slot guy but mediocre at the other receiving spots. His best place is being able to use his quicks, good route running, and his smarts to beat LBs and Safeties and find soft spots in zones, etc. 

 

As far as Quinn, we have no clue. He certainly has a size advantage over Crowder, their top speed is about the same, and he also seems to run really good routes and has great hands. It all depends on how he plays in camp and preseaon. If he looks legit, makes the 53 and plays well for a rookie during the season I could potentially see them sticking with him instead of Crowder if Crowder has another down season or if he wants a ton of money.

[Renegade7]

6 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Just because Crowder can play other spots doesn't mean he's all that great at it. When watching him lined up as a Z or even an X sometimes last season I wasn't very impressed. He doesn't have the moves or size or speed/acceleration to get off press or man coverage consistently and beat a top CB as an X and as a Z receiver he's a bit better but still it's not a great match up because you're Z is almost always also going to be going up against a corner, even though he's off the LOS. IMO Crowder is hands down a top notch Slot guy but mediocre at the other receiving spots. His best place is being able to use his quicks, good route running, and his smarts to beat LBs and Safeties and find soft spots in zones, etc. 

 

As far as Quinn, we have no clue. He certainly has a size advantage over Crowder, their top speed is about the same, and he also seems to run really good routes and has great hands. It all depends on how he plays in camp and preseaon. If he looks legit, makes the 53 and plays well for a rookie during the season I could potentially see them sticking with him instead of Crowder if Crowder has another down season or if he wants a ton of money.

 

So having said all that, why is there this expectation he'll ask for too so much we can't keep him?  I expect him to play closer to his rookie year then last year, just too many question marks to say we can't or shouldn't bring him back.  If he has another year like last year instead of his rookie year or asks for too much money, I'm with you, but we aren't there yet.  I'm expecting us to be able to keep both, no way I want to jump on the Quinn replace Crowder train yet.

[mistertim]

17 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

So having said all that, why is there this expectation he'll ask for too so much we can't keep him?  I expect him to play closer to his rookie year then last year, just too many question marks to say we can't or shouldn't bring him back.  If he has another year like last year instead of his rookie year or asks for too much money, I'm with you, but we aren't there yet.  I'm expecting us to be able to keep both, no way I want to jump on the Quinn replace Crowder train yet.

 

I don't necessarily have an expectation that he'll ask for too much and I'd love to keep them both. I'm just saying that if Quinn ends up being good (who knows) then we'd have an insurance policy in the slot. 

[Renegade7]

1 minute ago, mistertim said:

 

I don't necessarily have an expectation that he'll ask for too much and I'd love to keep them both. I'm just saying that if Quinn ends up being good (who knows) then we'd have an insurance policy in the slot. 

I can dig it, and I agree, its good look like we have a backup plan.  Just feels like the Crowder bashing is overdrive with the Quinn love fest in certain places of the stadium (not saying you or anyone in particular).  Been here long enough that it doesn't shock me, but not like we haven't seen stuff like this before.

[Est.1974]

Could depend on what Doctson does this season. If he comes through as a viable #1 or #2 receiver, we'll be looking to pay him in 2 years. Can't see both Richardson and Crowder being on the books for big money at the same time as Doctson getting paid a hefty deal.

 

Will be interesting to see who steps up this year. 

[mistertim]

6 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

I can dig it, and I agree, its good look like we have a backup plan.  Just feels like the Crowder bashing is overdrive with the Quinn love fest in certain places of the stadium (not saying you or anyone in particular).  Been here long enough that it doesn't shock me, but not like we haven't seen stuff like this before.

 

Yeah I don't really get the Crowder bashing. Yeah he had a down year and had a couple bad games but IMO he was also playing out of position way too much. As I mentioned before he was put into the Z and X positions sometimes and his game suffered for it because he really just isn't suited for it. He benefited greatly from having DJax and Garcon to play those more outside roles so he could focus on being deadly in the slot. Last season for those Z and X roles we had Pryor who was a complete dud, Doctson, who was essentially in his rookie year but did show promise, and a merry-go-round of randos like Quick. As a result not only did Crowder have to essentially play out of position some but he became one of the focal points of the defense as far as a receiving weapon because he was basically the best one out there.

 

As far as Quinn, as I said he has some traits that I've seen and I like but I'm certainly not assuming he's going to come in and be a stud or anything so I'm not on any hype train for him. I DO think he was a huge steal where we got him. IMO he had 3rd-4th round talent.and huge production but only having one big year definitely hurt his stock.

[Skinsinparadise]

Chris Thompson‏Verified account @ChrisThompson_4 15m15 minutes ago

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Chris Thompson Retweeted Washington Redskins

Will be! Mr. Very Relevant

Chris Thompson added,

1:01

Washington RedskinsVerified account @Redskins

Quinn could be an immediate contributor in his first season with the #Redskins: https://redsk.in/2sozd4y  #HTTR #WinFromWithin

 

[Conn]

If we have to choose between paying Crowder or paying someone like Preston Smith (who will make more but that's not the point), the choice is clear, regardless of whether Quinn pans out or not (and he's a long shot without a doubt). Slot WR is very important in today's NFL but its also a common archetype that has good prospects available every year--and the best offenses are now moving their stud outside WR's into the slot half the time for matchup reasons anyways, so we wouldn't even be "stuck" needing to draft any specific archetype if we have to let Crowder go. Especially if Doctson develops anywhere near his ceiling. 

[TSO]

3 hours ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

If we have to choose between paying Crowder or paying someone like Preston Smith (who will make more but that's not the point), the choice is clear, regardless of whether Quinn pans out or not (and he's a long shot without a doubt). Slot WR is very important in today's NFL but its also a common archetype that has good prospects available every year--and the best offenses are now moving their stud outside WR's into the slot half the time for matchup reasons anyways, so we wouldn't even be "stuck" needing to draft any specific archetype if we have to let Crowder go. Especially if Doctson develops anywhere near his ceiling. 

 

Yup, great point. That’s a sound team building philosophy right there, and that’s not putting Crowder down at all. Edge defenders >>>>> slot receivers in terms of positional value.  

 

The good news is that the majority of the NFL should see it this way, as well, and so if they label him as “just a slot guy” that potentially lowers his value enough to make it easier to sign him. Maybe it doesn’t have to be a choice.  

 

But you never know. Takes one crazy team who thinks that’s the missing piece. 

[bedlamVR]

@Skinsinparadise

 

That picture makes it look like Quinn either has no hands or is playing with himself - Lesson to learn - never co-ordinate your gloves with your shorts 

[dyst]

Crowders “down” year was still our best receiver by a mile, maybe 10 miles.

[HTTRDynasty]

Ignore the Cowgirl...

 

 

[kingdaddy]

On 5/30/2018 at 7:28 AM, dyst said:

Crowders “down” year was still our best receiver by a mile, maybe 10 miles.

Maybe so but Crowder has to be better than what he was last year. I was at the Vikings game where a perfect pass went right through his hands in the end zone. It was a turning point in the game from what I recall? He also hasn't shown much as a punt returner which is where I think a lot of us thought he would flourish. I hope he can take his game to another level this season cause we need him to be great. 

[skinny21]

36 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Maybe so but Crowder has to be better than what he was last year. I was at the Vikings game where a perfect pass went right through his hands in the end zone. It was a turning point in the game from what I recall? He also hasn't shown much as a punt returner which is where I think a lot of us thought he would flourish. I hope he can take his game to another level this season cause we need him to be great. 

Crowder was quite good as a returner in 2016 though, wasn’t he?  I agree with  your premise though.  Hopefully a better cast around him helps... though he needs to stop giving the ball to the defense.  

 

@HTTRDynastyGood find.  Bums me out though because Gallop was probably my favorite receiver in the draft (damn Cowboys).