What do you Believe??? (Religion)

[drtdrums]

I’m a convert from Evangelicalism to Orthodox Christianity. The full path was Evangelical (Southern Baptist) > Agnostic leaning to atheist > non-denom > Orthodox. I’m sure the story is more interesting in my own head.

 

When I found Orthodoxy, I realized I was home. The different lens through which Christ is viewed colors all aspects of the faith differently and, in my case, caused them to snap into three dimensions. I am utterly fascinated by the depths of the historical Church.

 

Despite being the second largest church in the world (the RCC is the largest), only around 1% of the US is Orthodox (if that; our numbers are about the same as Islam). Eastern Europe and the Middle East are where most of us are found now.

[PeterMP]

10 hours ago, Epochalypse said:

"Love your neighbor as yourself."

 

This is actually soft peddling Christianity:

 

“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor^[a] and hate your enemy.’ ⁴⁴ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, ⁴⁵ that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. ⁴⁶ If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? ⁴⁷ And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? ⁴⁸ Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

15 hours ago, thinwhiteduke said:

Again, pay attention..I did nothing personal towards anyone.i addressed the belief. I called no one any names.i insulted no one.  I addressed the 'belief' and then defined 'belief'. Stop getting on my case because  you choose  to think with emotion instead of logic. 

  I, in no way,shape or form insulted you or anyone. I said it was dumb to believe based on "my" judgement. No where did I tell "you, you" couldn't. I merely  said why "I"thought what I thought. 

 

I used the word "I". "Why would I"..." l gotta take the blame?"...etc.. I see no reference to you.

 You choosing to be insulted by that and take it personal is not of my doing.

 

[[, calling Eve a dumbass and those that follow religion and believe it's teachings "Slaves", is a direct insult to what they believe in.]]

Lol you are  way overboard now.  How is calling a fictional female a dumb ass, an insult to you?  How does me thinking the bible is a slave  manual insulting you?  It's

 My cold impersonal  observation, that  "you" choose to take personal..Nothing more. 

Have a blessed day

 

 

 

I'm not getting on your case, I was simply pointing out why other posters had issue with what you posted.  Again, it's the wording, delivery and interpreted tone that comes from your posts/responses, regardless if you intended others to interpret your message like that or not.  I'm not reacting emotionally to what you said, at the end of the day, I could really care less. 

 

I never said I was insulted or offended by anything you said, but I can only speak for myself on that.  I don't take anything you said personal either.  When you quote people and reply, 99% of the time they are going to take what you say as being directed towards them, especially when you word it in a way that could be interpreted as insulting.  

 

My reply to you wasn't about "me" by any means at all.  The only reason I even responded to your post in the first place was because we were having a nice, civil conversation regarding religious beliefs and then all of the sudden, you post and start getting into it with other posters and start playing the defensive blame game and can't even stand back and see with your own eyes why others might have offense or issues with what you posted.  But see, I don't think the later is the issue at all.  I think you know exactly how you are acting and know you are trolling and just want attention and reactions from other people. 

 

Not calling you a liar or doubting your beliefs, sure, you may believe everything you say/said, but you can post all that in a way that still satisfies your need to get an emotional reaction from others.  This isn't the first time either, we all have seen you act this way in other threads in other controversial topics.  

 

This will probably be my last reply to you in this thread.  Not because I'm emotional, not acting with logic, am butt hurt, offended, etc.  But because it's just become a waste of time at this point.  There is no logical debating/discussion with you.

 

Edit:  If you feel that urge to reply to this, please don't in the thread, send me a PM.  Anything more is just derailing it further, it's time to get it back on track.  

Edited March 29, 2018 by Dont Taze Me Bro

[Epochalypse]

5 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

This is actually soft peddling Christianity:

 

“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor^[a] and hate your enemy.’ ⁴⁴ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, ⁴⁵ that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. ⁴⁶ If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? ⁴⁷ And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? ⁴⁸ Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

This gets at what I was saying I think if I read your intent correctly.

 

To paraphrase, Jesus isn't saying hate Muslims, hate LGBTs, hate atheists, or Russians, or blacks, or women.  Jesus says love everyone, especially those that aren't exactly like you, because that's actually harder.  That actually takes effort.  However, by doing that harder thing you are being the better person, and hopefully setting the example for someone else to do the same.  And ultimately if everyone did that, this world inevitably is better.

 

We all know that we as humans are fallible, and He tells us this world is not destined to ever get there.  In fact we are told it will get worse.  Because He has a better one waiting for us.

 

He also says that many will use His name to their evil advantage, so again this shouldn't be surprising, when you see so-called Christians not acting as Christians.  It's a greater threat to Christians than overt atheism.

 

I readily admit as I drive 50 miles of 66 and 495 every day to work, loving everyone is not easy.  But it certainly is a worthy goal, especially when you see what this world looks like without it...

 

 

[Llevron]

1 hour ago, Zguy28 said:

To be honest, the slave comment in itself didn't bother me, it was the way it was said. The bible does indeed use the Greek word Doulos to describe Christians. Some translators soft pedal it by using "servant" or "bond-servant", but essentially the NT says you are a "slave to Christ." Of course it also says unbelievers are also slaves, but their master is sin.

 

I feel bad for him coming out of WWCG (Armstrongism), that's a messed up place. And then getting into something akin to Scientology. Wow.

 

Well, despite what he says hes doing that for a reason. His goal is to agitate and get attention. Its a physiological reaction to pain, I think. Makes me feel worse for him. I looked up Armstrongism for a while last night cause I was curious. It was a **** show! It doesn't surprise me that after being born into that kind of structure and what he called abuse, that he lashes out at people the way he does for their beliefs and what he sees as a lack of what he is telling himself is enlightenment. For him there always has to be a bad guy around the corner cause there always has been. And he will never let anything fool him again, and the best way to do that is to mistrust everything and everyone. That rolls right into this discussion and why hes to critical of anything resembling a belief structure. Its really kind of sad. I cant imagine being born into a cult and finding out it and itsGod are all bull****. And probably at a young enough age for it to leave serious scars. Damn

[PeterMP]

On 3/28/2018 at 3:23 AM, thinwhiteduke said:

I use to believe the Christian typical stuff. I think there might be some good..God.. if you want to call it that? but the Christian bible is a completely made up bunch of stories borrowed from other religions. No one is going to any hell when they die.

Religion was invented for further subservient  control of man/men.

 

 

There are two fundamental problems with your argument:

 

1.  Based on known history, the part of your post about the Christian Bible is false, especially with respect to the New Testament.  There might be some parts of the New Testament that were later add ons, but even taking those parts out don't fundamentally change the message of the New Testament.  Even if you take somebody like Bart Ehrman's work and take out the parts of the New Testament that he says were later additions, you don't really change the message of the New Testament.

 

Certainly, I can understand people arguing if the resurrection happened, but to claim that the information was not original to the Christian community and the general historical information in the New Testament as accurate ignores the best current research on the Bible, even by non-Christians.

 

2.  A quick look at history and current practices shows you are wrong.  From Ghandi in India, Buddhist monks in Vietnam, to the Quakers as abolitionist, to Martin Luther King Jr and the Civil Rights movement, to the role of the Catholic Church in ending communism and oppression in Eastern Europe.  Even Jesus and his movement.

 

In fact, the most oppressive states that try and maintain the most subservient nature of their population (e.g. North Korea) do everything they can do to limit religious expression.

 

You are simultaneously ignoring the best current scholarship on the Bible and ignoring commonly known history.

Edited March 29, 2018 by PeterMP

[Spaceman Spiff]

Raised Christian (Episcopalian).  Really only go to Church on Christmas and Easter.  Never really saw the point in Church.  My mother has always told me that it's about "giving thanks", to which I always replied that the best way to "give thanks" is to go out and live it every day.  Try to live the golden rule.  I'm at times pretty cynical, but all I saw at church was a bunch of people who felt like they could act however they wanted during the week as long as they did Catholic Calisthenics (sit, kneel, stand, sit, kneel, stand) sang some songs, had bread and wine and made nice with everyone.  And a fashion show.  And some babes.  Impure thoughts at church are fun.   I never understood how one hour out of the week made me better in the eyes of God if I was going to be a ****ty person for the rest of the time. 

 

I like to believe.  I like to believe there's something past this life.  If there's not, oh well.

 

Knowing others religions really hasn't been of interest to me, unless you're reading L. Ron's writing and trying to go clear.  Someone told me the one of the main differences between religion and Scientology is that you can go to church every Sunday and not spend a dime.  Sure, you can put money in the offering plate but you don't have to.  And everyone is on the same level, the person sitting next to you isn't perceived as better than you because they paid more to reach another level.  

 

I will say I never understood the glee that some atheists get in mocking religion or trashing it.  Ok, we get it.  Religion ain't for you, you don't believe.  No need to be a douche.

 

 

[Renegade7]

30 minutes ago, Llevron said:

And probably at a young enough age for it to leave serious scars. Damn

 

It's not what happens to you in life that makes you who you are, its how do you respond.  I don't expect him to just "get over it", while at the same time there have been a lot people that have been through some pretty horrible stuff in their lives and don't use that as an excuse for being horrible people themselves.

Edited March 29, 2018 by Renegade7

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

So, for those that do believe in God or at most the possibility of a higher power out there somewhere in the universe.  What is your take on God being an alien or extraterrestrial being that visited Earth early on, which sparked the creation of the various religions?  I remember watching one of the shows on History Channel (think it was Ancient Aliens) a while back explaining that take and found it interesting.

 

Basically, aliens visited Earth thousands of years ago and created religious texts for the benefit of mankind or that the humans alive back then created religion based on the "Alien God(s)" who visited at that time.  Yes, it's far fetched, however, I refuse to believe that we are alone out there in this vast universe.  And if another species is out there and had existed a lot longer than humans on Earth and developed technology beyond our comprehension and actually visited Earth, it could explain the numerous religions created around the world.  

 

I've read some articles on this theory too and some alien conspiracy theorists believe that we have been visited before and world leaders are keeping it secret under an alleged Truth Embargo because they fear the impact it would have on religion and laws.  Pretty interesting takes. 

 

 

Edited March 29, 2018 by Dont Taze Me Bro

[Llevron]

37 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

Knowing others religions really hasn't been of interest to me, unless you're reading L. Ron's writing and trying to go clear.  Someone told me the one of the main differences between religion and Scientology is that you can go to church every Sunday and not spend a dime.  Sure, you can put money in the offering plate but you don't have to.  And everyone is on the same level, the person sitting next to you isn't perceived as better than you because they paid more to reach another level.  

 

There are definitly some religions and churches that tell members that the more they pay the grater the blessings. I can dig up some videos of just last year if you like. Its part of why I think it can become a scam. Not all, obviously. I used to go to this real tiny little church that would ask for money for something silly like a door knob replacement - and we would have a door knob the next week! Loved those people. But there are some mega churches out there that ask you to send a dollar every week until they need 5. And then 10. Its pretty wild. And because its religion, the people in it TRUST it and really fall for it! 

 

37 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

I will say I never understood the glee that some atheists get in mocking religion or trashing it.  Ok, we get it.  Religion ain't for you, you don't believe.  No need to be a douche.

 

I honestly think its because they are messed up personally. There is a reason people cant just let you live and be happy and feel that have to ruin something like that for you. 

[Zguy28]

10 minutes ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

So, for those that do believe in God or at most the possibility of a higher power out there somewhere in the universe.  What is your take on God being an alien or extraterrestrial being that visited Earth early on, which sparked the creation of the various religions?  I remember watching one of the shows on History Channel (think it was Ancient Aliens) a while back explaining that take and found it interesting.

 

Basically, aliens visited Earth thousands of years ago and created religious texts for the benefit of mankind or that the humans alive back then created religion based on the "Alien God(s)" who visited at that time.  Yes, it's far fetched, however, I refuse to believe that we are alone out there in this vast universe.  And if another species is out there and had existed a lot longer than humans on Earth and developed technology beyond our comprehension and actually visited Earth, it could explain the numerous religions created around the world.  

 

I've read some articles on this theory too and some alien conspiracy theorists believe that we have been visited before and world leaders are keeping it secret under an alleged Truth Embargo because they fear the impact it would have on religion and laws.  Pretty interesting takes. 

 

 

To be honest, while it makes a good Hollywood movie (alright Indiana Jones and the Crystal Skull was BAD), it just doesn't fit I think. I mean I guess you could say Mt. Sinai could be a UFO and Jesus was an alien. Sure. Aliens can't account for all the miracles in the bible though. And Ancient Aliens theorists attribute EVERYTHING to aliens. If any religion was most likely Aliens, I'd say Hinduism.

3 minutes ago, Llevron said:

I honestly think its because they are messed up personally. There is a reason people cant just let you live and be happy and feel that have to ruin something like that for you. 

The reasons are varied. For some it evangelism, others its because they consider religion a threat, and still others it could be envy.

[Spaceman Spiff]

13 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

There are definitly some religions and churches that tell members that the more they pay the grater the blessings. I can dig up some videos of just last year if you like. Its part of why I think it can become a scam. Not all, obviously. I used to go to this real tiny little church that would ask for money for something silly like a door knob replacement - and we would have a door knob the next week! Loved those people. But there are some mega churches out there that ask you to send a dollar every week until they need 5. And then 10. Its pretty wild. And because its religion, the people in it TRUST it and really fall for it! 

 

 

I honestly think its because they are messed up personally. There is a reason people cant just let you live and be happy and feel that have to ruin something like that for you. 

 

Yeah, you are right about that.  I forgot about that.  I think its called "tithings" or something like that.  It's one of the reasons Evander Holyfield went broke, he gave a ****ton of money to his church.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

30 minutes ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

I've read some articles on this theory too and some alien conspiracy theorists believe that we have been visited before and world leaders are keeping it secret under an alleged Truth Embargo because they fear the impact it would have on religion and laws.  Pretty interesting takes. 

it's fun to think about imo. It also explains how so many different primitive civilizations across the world that had no contact with each other all have similar stories and draw the same type of "gods"/ufos. 

 

[Fresh8686]

1 hour ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

I will say I never understood the glee that some atheists get in mocking religion or trashing it.  Ok, we get it.  Religion ain't for you, you don't believe.  No need to be a douche.

 

 

A lot of people never bother to differentiate between their "perceived truth" and the global or "complete truth" (which no one has), and from that false sense of entitlement, they gleefully paint others as delusional and destroy for others what they've rejected for themselves.

Lack of self-awareness and an over-abundance of certainty in their beliefs, perpetuates that bad behavior.

[Spaceman Spiff]

1 minute ago, Fresh8686 said:

A lot of people never bother to differentiate between their "perceived truth" and the global or "complete truth" (which no one has), and from that false sense of entitlement, they gleefully paint others as delusional and destroy for others what they've rejected for themselves.

Lack of self-awareness and an over-abundance of certainty in their beliefs, perpetuates that bad behavior.

 

Agreed.  Unfortunately that doesn't just stop at religion for some.

[Renegade7]

22 minutes ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

So, for those that do believe in God or at most the possibility of a higher power out there somewhere in the universe.  What is your take on God being an alien or extraterrestrial being that visited Earth early on, which sparked the creation of the various religions? 

 

I mentioned earlier that there's no doubt God isn't from Earth since he created Earth.  Having said that, our understanding of God in my eyes equates to something that is beyond more powerful then even technology can come close to matching. 

 

We may be talking about two different things, because in many cultures in say Latin America that we believe were contacted by Aliens look like they got a much different set of information and experience then some of the other cultures at the time, particularly the ones that lead to the monotheistic religions we have today in Eastern Hemisphere. 

 

I do believe we figured out the Pyramids on our own, but why so many pre-historic cultures around the world all have some form of pyramid, that's a very fair question.  Given how spread out we were, there was no way we could all get on the same page about our experiences. The time period and area each belief system was developed was going to be unique to that, even if they borrowed stuff from other religions that were being practiced close to them.  

 

In short, God isn't from Earth, Aliens are real, they both contacted humans separately for different reasons.  Whether they knew about each other is another good question.  If God created the universe, didn't he create aliens, too?  What's His relationship with them?

[Momma There Goes That Man]

If you believe in aliens and you believe in a god, don't you have to believe that god created aliens?

[Llevron]

1 minute ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

If you believe in aliens and you believe in a god, don't you have to believe that god created aliens?

 

I think thats what hes saying. That or God is an alien. 

 

This is the fun path I go down in my own head. When the Vatican announced that conference to discuss extraterrestrial life, it kind of made me take a step back. I dont want to sound like a crazy person but I do think our history or non history with alien life is closely related with God. 

 

On a side note, if Religion in general could find a way to co-exist with science, I think we would all be better off for it. 

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

18 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

If you believe in aliens and you believe in a god, don't you have to believe that god created aliens?

 

That's one possible belief.  One almighty God that created multiple worlds/species across the universe, which includes humans and ETs.

 

Or one could believe that God is an actual alien, as in just an extraterrestrial being/species from another galaxy so technologically advanced that they visited Earth when mankind was primitive.  Thus appearing to be "God Like" because of said advanced technology (e.g. spacecraft, etc.), thus sparking various religions.  

 

Or as in Renegade's post, both God exists along with Aliens, neither connected to each other, but not from this world.

 

 

Edited March 29, 2018 by Dont Taze Me Bro

[Zguy28]

20 minutes ago, Llevron said:

On a side note, if Religion in general could find a way to co-exist with science, I think we would all be better off for it. 

There are a LOT of assumptions in this statement such as assuming the religious does not want to co-exist. I wish for harmony between the two as well.

1 minute ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

 

That's one possible belief.  One almighty God that created multiple worlds/species across the universe, which includes humans and ETs.

 

Or one could believe that God is an actual alien, as in just an extraterrestrial being/species from another galaxy so technologically advanced that they visited Earth when mankind was primitive.  Thus appearing to be "God Like" because of said advanced technology (e.g. spacecraft, etc.), thus sparking various religions.  

 

 

As long as he's not as annoying as Q.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

2 minutes ago, Zguy28 said:

As long as he's not as annoying as Q.

 

 

I loved all the episodes with Q lol

[Llevron]

@Zguy28 Oh no I didnt mean it that way, though I can see why you took it that way. I mean to say that if religion left room for other theories of how things went down other than the way that is told in the various books. Evolution, being the primary example. I didnt mean it to say that religious people have a problem with science, only that my interpretation of most religions leave not much room for it. 

[thinwhiteduke]

5 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

 

 

The idea of the thread is 

Lol The guy by the wall must have said something, to get the timing right.

[thebluefood]

Wanted to touch base and see if anyone's answered "in life after love?"

 

[thinwhiteduke]

52 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

If you believe in aliens and you believe in a god, don't you have to believe that god created aliens?

Probably one of those missing books in the bible....