What do you Believe??? (Religion)

[zCommander]

59 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Screw you guys. I’m blocking all of you. I’m gonna be my own little Omega Man on this forum from now on and I’ll be a whole lot happier.

 

edit: Can someone tell me how to like my own posts?

 

Blocking people is now your new religion...lol    Since you are not God you can't like your own posts.    

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

3 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

I can't just tell you to "read the book and get back to me".  What I can tell you is to read it anyway so you're sure what you're dealing with

Ive actually read the Bible. But then my next question would be, why does this book carry more authority than the Koran or the Bhagavad Gita or any of the other texts that profess to know the ultimate truth?

[mcsluggo]

EVERYBODY thinks i'm from England....   

 

 

Its the snotty accent

 

and the cooking,

 

and the teeth

 

and the general pastiness

 

and the hooliganism    

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

7 minutes ago, zskins said:

Since you are not God you can't like your own posts.    

Well I guess I’ll just have to do something about that. Let me see if it’s too late to get on the ballot for the 2018 midterms.

2 minutes ago, mcsluggo said:

EVERYBODY thinks i'm from England....

For me, it was on account of how the slenderman in your profile picture is dressed.

[mcsluggo]

2 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Ive actually read the Bible. But then my next question would be, why does this book carry more authority than the Koran or the Bhagavad Gita or any of the other texts that profess to know the ultimate truth?

 

because there are 2&1/4 BILLLLLLION Christians?     

 

and the current dominant <waning?> economic & cultural center is <was?> christian?

[Kosher Ham]

9 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

That's a tough question because I don't like doing that, either, same as twa.

 

 

I cut that short simply because of space. 

I am curious to hear why others are ridiculed and ostracized because they believe...but not exactly what you believe. 

Take Scientologists as an extreme or Amish folks as the opposite extreme. 

 

 

Just now, mcsluggo said:

EVERYBODY thinks i'm from England....   

 

Nope it's the avatar and perhaps you are indeed a brother of the Cranes.  Do you get the reference ? 

[mcsluggo]

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

6 minutes ago, mcsluggo said:

because there are 2&1/4 BILLLLLLION Christians?

By 2070 there are going to be more Muslims than Christians though so if we're using number of followers as the guideline (a rather tenuous bit of evidence when we're talking about proving a creator to begin with), get your imama ready.

 

Also, delving into how the religion was able to spread so widely and so rapidly would open up another can of worms.

[Kosher Ham]

Dr. Frasier Crane ... 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

9 minutes ago, Kosher Ham said:

perhaps you are indeed a brother of the Cranes.  Do you get the reference ? 

[Renegade7]

12 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Ive actually read the Bible. But then my next question would be, why does this book carry more authority than the Koran or the Bhagavad Gita or any of the other texts that profess to know the ultimate truth?

 

Depends on what you mean by "authority". 

 

We all know a major reason Christianity has grown to the size that it has is the level of violence from some of its more organized components (talked about that in my OP).  At the end of the day, a huge segment of our society believes Jesus was a real person (as do I).  I don't feel you have to believe he's the Son of God to learn from his teachings, that shouldn't be a requirement. 

 

Predicto touched on the reality that if some of us were born in different places, we would have different belief systems.  There's no other way around that, and why to this day I can't get over the stance towards non-believers, particularly in regards to Revelation.  I think no matter where I ended up, if I ask myself similar questions about my faith as I do now, the Jesus thing will eventually come up, there's no way to avoid it in that context unless you want to.

 

Jesus tried to reach out to and help as many people as he could, even if their faith wasn't anywhere close to some other people.  I like that, it inspires me.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

Depends on what you mean by "authority".

Oh you know... why is this book the word of God and not these other books that are also professing to be the word of God?

 

I believe Jesus existed and was a great man whose teachings are worthy of study. But, my question was, how would you convince someone with no belief system in place that there is a God.

[Renegade7]

27 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

I believe Jesus existed and was a great man whose teachings are worthy of study. But, my question was, how would you convince someone with no belief system in place that there is a God.

 

I don't want to answer that in a thread where I specifically asked people not to do that.  That question needs context anyway.  There was a thread or convo in a thread not too long ago about how or if you would try to convince a child that was dying and a non-believer of heaven to help their fears.  I don't think I posted in that thread, I wasn't ready to.  If you start a new one based on your question, I'll think about giving it a shot even if it even if it makes me uncomfortable (as this thread has at times). 

Edited April 3, 2018 by Renegade7

[Kosher Ham]

23 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Jesus tried to reach out to and help as many people as he could, even if their faith wasn't anywhere close to some other people.  I like that, it inspires me.

 

You and I have both seen people that do that. 

Inspiration is fielded by everyone. 

Yet many have different aspirations. 

 

I have experienced profound statements and explanations of certain ideologies in my life. 

 

I am certainly happy that you have found something that makes you and most folks happy. 

 

Real talk... PM me. 

[PeterMP]

47 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Oh you know... why is this book the word of God and not these other books that are also professing to be the word of God?

 

I believe Jesus existed and was a great man whose teachings are worthy of study. But, my question was, how would you convince someone with no belief system in place that there is a God.

 

The fundamental issue is that everybody believes something.  At some level, we all believe in natural laws.  We all believe if we do the same thing over and over again, for the most part, we will get the same result.  We all live our lives based on a belief that the universe is not random in that tomorrow you are not going to wake up and find that gravity has changed.  You live your life based on a set of beliefs even if you don't really realize it.

 

(There's a philosophical concept in terms of coherentism where truths need to be coherent with respect to other information.  We all build a belief system that is coherent to our knowledge (and then ideally the most simple coherent system should be the best (appealing to Occam's Razor).)

 

So flip the question on its head and ask why shouldn't you believe in a god?  What about your knowledge creates a more simple and coherent system if you don't believe in a god?

 

(Realistically, these conversations never really go anywhere.  I believe people have to individually choose to believe, but I can at least give you a philosophical framework to start from.  I seriously doubt that you will find it appealing if you've already decided to reject a belief in a god.)

Edited April 3, 2018 by PeterMP

[grego]

2 hours ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

 

 

 

What did you think of Chicken Run?

 

I was gonna go see it, but "there will be blood" was playing in the next theater. 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

10 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

I seriously doubt that you will find it appealing if you've already decided to reject a belief in a god.)

I’m listening. Struggled with spirituality my whole life and have believed many different things at different times. I do not currently believe in a personal God but if there was convincing evidence or logic presented to me, I’d like nothing more to believe that I was going to live forever with all the people I care about surrounded by unbounded love.

Just now, grego said:

I was gonna go see it, but "there will be blood" was playing in the next theater. 

Oh really? Cause Chicken Run came out in 2000 and There Will Be Blood is from 2008. Why must you turn this message board into a house of lies?

[twa]

1 hour ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

By 2070 there are going to be more Muslims than Christians though so if we're using number of followers as the guideline (a rather tenuous bit of evidence when we're talking about proving a creator to begin with), get your imama ready.

 

Also, delving into how the religion was able to spread so widely and so rapidly would open up another can of worms.

 

Many people think both worship the same God

[Llevron]

3 minutes ago, twa said:

 

Many people think both worship the same God

 

Thats what I always thought. You can almost draw the parallels if you want to. I would feel much better about religion if that were the case, honestly. And im not sure why that is. 

[PeterMP]

9 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

I’m listening. Struggled with spirituality my whole life and have believed many different things at different times. I do not currently believe in a personal God but if there was convincing evidence or logic presented to me, I’d like nothing more to believe that I was going to live forever with all the people I care about surrounded by unbounded love.

 

Do you believe that if you do the same thing over and over again that you will get the same result?  Why?

 

The idea of "convincing evidence" is vague.  What others will find convincing other will not.  Do you believe that making predictions is a good indication of if something is true?  i.e. Ideas that make predictions are more likely to be true.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

4 minutes ago, twa said:

Many people think both worship the same God

[twa]

1 minute ago, Llevron said:

 

Thats what I always thought. You can almost draw the parallels if you want to. I would feel much better about religion if that were the case, honestly. And im not sure why that is. 

 

Well they certainly do it differently, humans are stubborn critters   

2 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

 

People of the Book?

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

Just now, PeterMP said:

Do you believe that if you do the same thing over and over again that you will get the same result?  Why?

 

The idea of "convincing evidence" is vague.  What others will find convincing other will not.  Do you believe that making predictions is a good indication of if something is true?  i.e. Ideas that make predictions are more likely to be true.

I'm having a hard time following you here but I'll try to answer.

 

"Do you believe that if you do the same thing over and over again that you will get the same result?  Why?"

Depends on what that thing is. If I play Mario Brothers every day, I'll probably get better so that would be different results. If I turn left on Beauregard Drive every day, it's going to take me home.

 

"Do you believe that making predictions is a good indication of if something is true?  i.e. Ideas that make predictions are more likely to be true."

I guess so but I'd need a specific example.

 

[FuriousD]

What do I believe?  I believe google when it says there are roughly 4,200 religions in the world.  I also believe they are entirely man-made as evidenced by the crude carpentry often used to hammer the leaky vessel together from a piece of this and a shard of that.

 

I also firmly believe that you should read Christopher Hitchens book, God Is Not Great.  Why Religion Poisons Everything.  Better still buy the audio-book and listen to the author read it himself.  The mans command of the English language is a revelation and the absolute ease with which he dismantles the 3 great monotheism's (and some lesser ones too) is quite astonishing.

 

RIP Hitch.

[PeterMP]

8 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

I'm having a hard time following you here but I'll try to answer.

 

"Do you believe that if you do the same thing over and over again that you will get the same result?  Why?"

Depends on what that thing is. If I play Mario Brothers every day, I'll probably get better so that would be different results. If I turn left on Beauregard Drive every day, it's going to take me home.

 

"Do you believe that making predictions is a good indication of if something is true?  i.e. Ideas that make predictions are more likely to be true."

I guess so but I'd need a specific example.

 

 

I mean more fundamentally than that.  If you drop some thing from the same height every day are you going to get the same result?  Or is gravity going to change tomorrow and you might get a different result?

 

Or more practically, have you ever worried about what are the maximum amount force in terms of something like gravity you could live through and what would happen to your residence if some time during the night gravity became that strong?  Do you worry about if your roof would fall on you during your sleep if gravity suddenly increases?

 

(Realistically, for anybody being honest, the answer to these questions is that they assume that things are not going to change.  They live their life as if the universe is not random.  At some level, we all believe in some sort of natural laws.)

 

So the question becomes why do you believe that?

 

**EDIT**

We all essentially make axiomatic assumptions.

 

https://undsci.berkeley.edu/article/basic_assumptions

Edited April 3, 2018 by PeterMP