What do you Believe??? (Religion)

[thebluefood]

 

This one's still relevant (1 John 4:8) 

Quote

Whoever does not love does not know God, for God is love.

 

Edited April 2, 2018 by thebluefood

[Kosher Ham]

I am not going to sit here and defend Jumbo for his stance on things. 

He has been isolated from most of the world for quite some time and has a little bit of social awkwardness. 

That's okay, we all do in certain settings. 

 

What I will say is, that attacking him is certainly not the answer and although he may come across as attacking individuals that is not his stance. 

He is a commenting based on his opinion ( Keyword ) about this topic. 

 

The whole "burn him at the stakes" type of mentality is something that he seemingly provoked.  

That still doesn't give you a pass to say whatever you feel towards him personally in an attacking fashion. 

He is attacking a concept, a perception... you folks are attacking the individual. 

 

Jumbo, you still my DAWG... even if we can't agree on some of your hot takes. 

[Renegade7]

26 minutes ago, Kosher Ham said:

He is attacking a concept, a perception... you folks are attacking the individual. 

I'll say that you aren't 100% wrong in that when you deal with him about his perception versus him as an individual, sometimes he's shown to be more reasonable them some of us realize (I've seen this at least twice now).  Having said that, he's been pretty clear about his feelings towards many of us on an individual basis, so he's not helping himself at all in that department in terms of trying to separate the two on his end, either.

[Kosher Ham]

Come on man... I am not trying to read all this again. haha. 

Show me some examples back and forth. 

Please and thanks. 

 

You have to agree that it is predominantly the other folks attacking him though if you read through it though. 

Certainly a disruptive person. I would not go as far as to say destructive or seemingly veering too far away from his opinion ( keyword ) , or the topic itself...unless lead towards that. 

 

Hell, I'll state it clearly right now, I have a problem with the way that Jumbo stated what he stated on several posts... at the same time, he is not attacking an individual and I almost feel that is what his point is. 

 

 

 

 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

Kosher, you're trying way to hard to be nice. #1 He is constantly attacking every poster on this board. #2 He says that the Parkland survivors are liars which is about as ****ish as it gets. 

Edited April 2, 2018 by Sacks 'n' Stuff

[Llevron]

Why tf do you keep calling him jumbo am I missing something?  

[Renegade7]

22 minutes ago, Kosher Ham said:

Come on man... I am not trying to read all this again. haha. 

 

lol, I can't do your homework for you while I'm in the office, but I can tell you to check out page 5 of this thread when I went back and forth with him and how he changed his tone by page 6.  He agreed to leave the climate thread on page 79 after "making his point", so going back after him again was stupid, all it did was bring him back in there to defend himself.  When you get a chance, shot me a PM on why you keep calling him "Jumbo", I don't want this to be an "intervention" thread.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

10 minutes ago, Llevron said:

Why tf do you keep calling him jumbo am I missing something?  

 

4 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

When you get a chance, shot me a PM on why you keep calling him "Jumbo"

 

He's calling me Jumbo, I believe. Some people (including Jumbo) have theorized that he may have dissociative identity disorder and that I am his alter-ego. It's an honest mistake and I'll admit there are a lot of intellectual similarities but at the same time, come on... he has nowhere near the good looks.

 

Edited April 2, 2018 by Sacks 'n' Stuff

[Kosher Ham]

haha. Sacks, you are clearly not Jumbo. 

 

I do know who it is though. 

 

Hint: No one that is asking me. 

 

[Llevron]

So you are saying that the mods haven't actually left us but that he is the mods!? 

 

What kind of **** is this??? Where am I? What year is this??

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

12 minutes ago, Kosher Ham said:

haha. Sacks, you are clearly not Jumbo.

What gave it away? Was it my six pack abs?

[Zguy28]

He reminds me of an old poster I used to tangle with in the old days named TheCavalierMan.

[JCB]

And here I was thinking that I missed some awesome Jumbo posts that were deleted overnight.

[mbws]

I was Irish Catholic until I reached the age of reason. 

 

[Riggo-toni]

1 hour ago, mbws said:

I was Irish Catholic until I reached the age of reason. 

 

Ah yes...I miss George Carlin.

 

[Renegade7]

Ok, I'm just going to come out and say it:

 

I knew the results would be closer then if I started this thread back in '06 (last time I made a religion thread).  But I was not expecting nearly as many people picking Atheist as all the other Monotheistic religions combined (two more votes and its going to be more).  I have a really weird feeling in my stomach on that one, and I'm very weary on how to further comment on that, if at all.

[Springfield]

4 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Ok, I'm just going to come out and say it:

 

I knew the results would be closer then if I started this thread back in '06 (last time I made a religion thread).  But I was not expecting nearly as many people picking Atheist as all the other Monotheistic religions combined (two more votes and its going to be more).  I have a really weird feeling in my stomach on that one, and I'm very weary on how to further comment on that, if at all.

 

I think it’s more about the population of the board than the population at large.  Jumbo kicked out all the right wing ultra conservatives so all we are left with is althiest liberals around here.

[Renegade7]

8 minutes ago, Springfield said:

 

I think it’s more about the population of the board than the population at large.  Jumbo kicked out all the right wing ultra conservatives so all we are left with is althiest liberals around here.

 

That makes sense. 

 

I've noticed less posters trying to defend the Republican Party over the years, so had a feeling there'd be less people voting monotheistic.  I definitely don't think half the country is atheist, but did see an article I need to look more into that said that people believe half the UK doesn't claim a religion anymore. 

 

I know that's not the same thing, still very telling.

Edited April 2, 2018 by Renegade7

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

8 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

I've noticed less posters trying to defend the Republican Party over the years, so had a feeling there'd be less people voting monotheistic.  

I am alarmed any time my thinking aligns with the folks who support the current GOP.

Edited April 2, 2018 by Sacks 'n' Stuff

[PeterMP]

57 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Ok, I'm just going to come out and say it:

 

I knew the results would be closer then if I started this thread back in '06 (last time I made a religion thread).  But I was not expecting nearly as many people picking Atheist as all the other Monotheistic religions combined (two more votes and its going to be more).  I have a really weird feeling in my stomach on that one, and I'm very weary on how to further comment on that, if at all.

 

I think fundamentally what you are seeing is that people with most straight forward label are most likely to pick a label, and the easiest belief to label is a lack of belief.

 

For example, most strictly speaking, I'm an agnostic theist (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic_theism (I don't claim to KNOW that God exists)) and while I lean towards a belief in one God, I also believe that God might represent himself different ways to different people, resulting in what might appear to be a polytheistic situation.

 

As such, none of the given labels really described me, and I didn't vote.  Now, I suspect most people would say I was monothestic, but that's not a label I'm comfortable putting no myself.

I strongly suspect if you would have put up an other category, that would easily be the winner where most of those people would have been would be what most people would see as monothestic.

Edited April 2, 2018 by PeterMP

[Renegade7]

4 hours ago, PeterMP said:

I strongly suspect if you would have put up an other category, that would easily be the winner where most of those people would have been would be what most people would see as monothestic.

I know, I wanted people to pick clear categories if they could, and if they couldn't that's okay.  I hope no one felt that voting was required before posting in the thread.  

 

It took me reading into the difference between being Athiest and being Agnostic and how both technically leave open the possibility of there being a God (went to https://www.atheists.org/activism/resources/about-atheism/) to understand that this question is way more complicated then it appears on the surface sometimes.  Learned a lot, that was the goal.  I had to read this sentence multiple times to really make sense of it:

 

Quote

To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

 

At the same time, I was hoping people would look at the options from a hierarchical standpoint if their beliefs fell under that umbrella.  I consider myself a Christian, I don't want to feel that because I don't do everything a Christian is "supposed to do" that I can't be one.  I still don't understand the difference between Baptist and Episcopalian, that's a big reason I don't want to pick one because then I feel like I'd have to explain it to myself and lock myself into it without fully understanding it.

 

My mom gave me this book and I plan to go back through it (maybe I should give Google a break and try this instead):

 

 

In a way, I understand and respect the idea of denominations (especially Christianity), but at the same time I still don't.  It just makes everything more confusing to me, imo, when you can pick a practice that was born from and practically identical to the one it came from, yet still be distinct enough that you couldn't answer that simple question. It's like a belief system with exceptions for everybody. The poll asked what your belief system fell under, and with no disrespect, I don't understand how Agnostic Theism doesn't fall under Agnostic.  I earlier brought up how half the planet is either Jewish, Christian, or Muslim, I put that option in there for a reason.

[Renegade7]

8 hours ago, Llevron said:

So you are saying that the mods haven't actually left us but that he is the mods!? 

 

What kind of **** is this??? Where am I? What year is this??

If the point is that we can't help but attack the person when we vehemently disagree with their message, then we're losing.

[PeterMP]

9 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

The poll asked what your belief system fell under, and with no disrespect, I don't understand how Agnostic Theism doesn't fall under Agnostic.  I earlier brought up how half the planet is either Jewish, Christian, or Muslim, I put that option in there for a reason.

 

Historically, atheist has been reserved for people that reject the existence of God and agnostic has been for people that are uncertain in the existence of God.

 

More recently there has been an attempt to re-define those terms in agreement with their more underlying Greek/Latin origins (a = without, gnostic = knowledge, adn theist = belief).  If we simply define agnosticism as somebody that does not know if God exist, I suspect the majority of theist would say they do not KNOW.

 

In fact, that's a key component of the concept of faith.  Faith is belief without proof so by the more recent, but related to their underlying Greek/Latin origins, most Christians should identify as agnostic (in fact most Christians that have faith that God exist and that Jesus is the son of God based on that that definition would be agnostic theist.)  Because of the older connotation of the words, most Christians would not identify as such.

 

(Using the more recent push (mostly from people that would be traditionally described as atheist), you could combine the words in all sorts of combinations.  It makes sense to talk about agnostic atheist, a gnostic atheist, an agnostic theist, and a gnostic theist, though the number of people that intelligently would describe themselves as the first or the last, I think would be small.)

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, PeterMP said:

 

Historically, atheist has been reserved for people that reject the existence of God and agnostic has been for people that are uncertain in the existence of God.

 

(Using the more recent push (mostly from people that would be traditionally described as atheist), you could combine the words in all sorts of combinations.  It makes sense to talk about agnostic atheist, a gnostic atheist, an agnostic theist, and a gnostic theist, though the number of people that intelligently would describe themselves as the first or the last, I think would be small.)

 

I noticed that.  Part of me feels the evolution of that terminology was done intentionally to further undermined the whole thing, but that's me being cynical.  Bible is full of people that questioned their faith at times, I wouldn't be comfortable with that label, either.  

 

I guess you can get technical and say you can't know something without having proof that it's true, but we do that every day without even realizing it.  I know not to go through the tunnel in the morning to get to work, I don't have to watch the traffic lady to prove that, the odds are enough in my favor that I know not to take that way to work at the same time I normally leave and expect to get there on time.  

 

There's a lot about the Bible that has been verified via Archaeology, like the people that helped get it to the point it is now, that it should be taken seriously as a source of historical content, even if not word for word (there are parts that can definitely be verified via science when you look at where words are translated from).   From what we can tell in different civilizations and cultures around the time period and area of Jesus life and death, the debate wasn't on "did we know if Jesus was real", the question was whether he was the messiah or not.  Romans have records of killing him, Jews and even some Pegan societies have records of denouncing him.  

 

If someone says they believe Jesus was a real person and the Son of God, but then someone asks how sure they are, does any other other answer outside of 100% certainty mean their agnostic?  We may need to re-evaluate that term if that's the case, or at least any attempted connection to Monotheism, because that's not fair.

 

Quote

For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

-Romans 15:4

 

 

[Llevron]

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

If the point is that we can't help but attack the person when we vehemently disagree with their message, then we're losing.

 

Yea I guess. But tolerating stupid people got us to 2018 where Donald Trump is the president. 

 

We should be able to see the error there.