TradeTheBeal! Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 16 minutes ago, Tsailand said: The smart money had already figured out that Alex wasn't anything special. The Dumb&Dumber money (SnyderAllen) watched the 2017 Tyreek Hill highlight reel and decided to give Alex Smith $71 million. Before the trade, the Chiefs had Smith under contract for $15M in 2018, but that didn't mean much, because it was non-guaranteed. They could have cut him and paid nothing. Which they would have done if they couldn't find an idiot to trade with. As has been pointed out in many threads, veteran franchise QBs rarely hit the FA market. 2018 was no exception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 16 minutes ago, wit33 said: What’s Sanchez’s record? 41-37 and twice took his team deep in the playoffs. That type of record is plenty to get us across the finish line let alone we finally got a playoff winning QB -- no more 1 game and out stuff if we make it. https://www.footballdb.com/stats/qb-records.html Colt McCoy on the other hand 7-18 with no playoff wins. Look you guys can argue all day long about stats, the talent on the team they played on, their supporting cast, other units carrying the day, whether the QB actually played good in the game, blah blah, blah. Contexts matters not. Bottom line is did he win? And by that definition there is a clear starter on this current roster and its Sanchez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 27 minutes ago, wit33 said: Respect to Smith for contributions made and playing a part in being excited about prospects of building on first place lead on Thanksgiving Day. Respect to Alex the person. I have an idea of what he's going through 2nd hand. But I've heard enough from different people who cover the team that I don't think the coaching staff or the front office think that Alex was a major contributor to them being in first place -- with some careful optimism that their weakest unit will now get stronger with potentially a better QB. Tough for me to tell of their optimism about Colt is founded or not but I am excited to see. The bar to me is low for Colt to overcome. I've always seen Colt as the opposite extreme of Alex -- a guy who takes too many chances but maybe he's reigned that in, his TD-turnover ratio in his career is horrendous but will see. I've heard so many times that Colt is new and improved. Maybe there is something to it. Will see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 In all honesty, a winning record as a Jets starter is kinda impressive. But continue on trashing your team and your players on this Thanksgiving morning. I’m sure it’s a deeply rewarding course of action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 6 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said: In all honesty, a winning record as a Jets starter is kinda impressive. But continue on trashing your team and your players on this Thanksgiving morning. I’m sure it’s a deeply rewarding course of action. I am not trashing any player let alone the team (go check my posts in the game thread) I am just having fun with the W-L record stuff that has been beaten to death on this thread. I find the Sanchez signing in that context -- funny and wildly ironic to that specific argument. If you don't cool. Don't see how that positions you to take a high ground global statement about fandom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wit33 Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: 41-37 and twice took his team deep in the playoffs. That type of record is plenty to get us across the finish line let alone we finally got a playoff winning QB -- no more 1 game and out stuff if we make it. https://www.footballdb.com/stats/qb-records.html Colt McCoy on the other hand 7-18 with no playoff wins. Look you guys can argue all day long about stats, the talent on the team they played on, their supporting cast, other units carrying the day, whether the QB actually played good in the game, blah blah, blah. Contexts matters not. Bottom line is did he win? And by that definition there is a clear starter on this current roster and its Sanchez. To be honest, I like the Sanchez signing. Won’t get any jokes from me. He has some experience in big spots. Good fit for where team is at currently. No one knows with Colt, but I can see a Todd Collins type finish to the season or Case Keenum type performance. All things being equal, my only care is making the playoffs, been the case since day 1. It didn’t matter who’s QB’n the team, the expectation has been playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 14 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: I am not trashing any player let alone the team (go check my posts in the game thread) I am just having fun with the W-L record stuff that has been beaten to death on this thread. I find the Sanchez signing in that context -- funny and wildly ironic to that specific argument. If you don't cool. Don't see how that positions you to take a high ground global statement about fandom. If Colt turns the ball over at a high rate, Sanchez could very well get the call down the stretch. And the fact that he has a proven record of being competitive in high profile games would be a big factor in that decision. A very active poster in this thread has made it clear that nearly any rookie QB could’ve gotten this team to 6-3. By that viewpoint, Sanchez is certainly qualified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wit33 Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: I am not trashing any player let alone the team (go check my posts in the game thread) I am just having fun with the W-L record stuff that has been beaten to death on this thread. I find the Sanchez signing in that context -- funny and wildly ironic to that specific argument. If you don't cool. Don't see how that positions you to take a high ground global statement about fandom. Except that they’re nowhere in same ball park as winning goes. It’s like comparing Art Monk and Michael Westbrook. Yes, both caught the ball—Westbrook even had an outlier season or two, but Monk did it over a career. Smith isn’t Monk lol Just having some fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsailand Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 4 minutes ago, wit33 said: To be honest, I like the Sanchez signing. Won’t get any jokes from me. I like it but I'm still going to joke about it. I hope Colt plays well enough that Sanchez never sees the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 3 minutes ago, wit33 said: Except that they’re nowhere in same ball park as winning goes. It’s like comparing Art Monk and Michael Westbrook. Yes, both caught the ball—Westbrook even had an outlier season or two, but Monk did it over a career. The point is that "winning" is not a QB stat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 12 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said: If Colt turns the ball over at a high rate, Sanchez could very well get the call down the stretch. And the fact that he has a proven record of being competitive in high profile games would be a big factor in that decision. A very active poster in this thread has made it very clear that nearly any rookie QB could’ve gotten this team to 6-3. By that viewpoint, Sanchez is certainly qualified. I got no bone with Sanchez or Colt. In contrary, I am actually excited to see what Colt does today. My point was to speak to all the people who view Sanchez as to him being a bust/failure. And i know a lot of them are out there -- the butt fumble has made him into a national punchline. As to whether that's deserved or not is a different story. I was speaking to that view point in the context of what I view is an over the top argument about judging quarterbacks on W-L records. I've been consistent on that point too -- complementing Alex for having one of his better playing games during a loss. While I think the Qb clearly has an influence in wins and losses -- his actual play to me is the bigger deal. Do I think a subpar performing QB can win a game, sure, that is, if the other units kick butt and carry the day. But I don't think a QB can have a bad game and also have other units play poorly and still win. To make that point specific to this. The two years where Sanchez made the playoffs -- 2009 the Jets defense ranked #1. 2010 the Jets defense ranked #6. Coincidence? Colt played with the horrific Cleveland Browns and the bad 2014 Redskins roster. My gut is Colt is the better QB (will see though) regardless of what happened before in their careers because context is very relevant and to me the context isn't a sidebar point its the operative point aside from the actual play of the QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins island connection Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 19 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: Respect to Alex the person. I have an idea of what he's going through 2nd hand. But I've heard enough from different people who cover the team that I don't think the coaching staff or the front office think that Alex was a major contributor to them being in first place -- with some careful optimism that their weakest unit will now get stronger with potentially a better QB. Tough for me to tell of their optimism about Colt is founded or not but I am excited to see. The bar to me is low for Colt to overcome. I've always seen Colt as the opposite extreme of Alex -- a guy who takes too many chances but maybe he's reigned that in, his TD-turnover ratio in his career is horrendous but will see. I've heard so many times that Colt is new and improved. Maybe there is something to it. Will see. I think that the time Colt was put in, he was going up against 1 or 2 other QBs who different personnel were wanting to see on the field. That one time, it was Griffin, Cousins and Colt, and I think Colt figured he would be on the low part of the totem pole, so he maybe tried too hard to make things happen but it didn't work out. { Not trying to tick off mods, just using an example } Back when Cousins first got the nod as starter, he had the same problem; turnovers. He would throw an interception at the drop of a hat. But the coaches and staff worked with him, and eventually he got better; much better. Colt has this same opportunity to do the exact same thing; come in as a replacement and play good enough to win the starting role. I fully expect to see Colt throw a pic here and there, hopefully it will not be in a crucial part of the game. If Gruden's game plan calls for a lot more deep balls, maybe he does throw more pics; if the game plan calls for most everything to be within 10-15 yds the chance of a pic goes down, hopefully, but it will also limit the # of big plays, and that's something this team has been missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 17 minutes ago, wit33 said: Except that they’re nowhere in same ball park as winning goes. It’s like comparing Art Monk and Michael Westbrook. Yes, both caught the ball—Westbrook even had an outlier season or two, but Monk did it over a career. Smith isn’t Monk lol Just having some fun I am just having fun with the argument -- just some hyperbole on my end -- don't take it that seriously. Considering some did take it seriously, I didn't pull off what I was trying to do -- I guess the emojis don't do the trick. I don't feel like engaging in another all they do is win arguments. We'd just be spinning our wheels, I've debated with you enough about it. But yeah I don't buy for example that Trent Williams is a loser LT, the Patriots running backs are better than Adrian Peterson. Andy Dalton and is better than Andrew Luck or Ryan Fitzpatrick is better than Carson Wentz. On and on and on. And yeah using the same metrics Sanchez is way the better option than Colt. I wasn't comparing Sanchez to Alex but if I did I'd gather we should trust Sanchez more in the playoffs? I just don't look it all of that in that way. And I get you don't look at it that way in a blanket way as I put it here but you go very strong on the point. But I've done the dance with you many times so am not looking to argue again -- I just found the irony with the Sanchez/Colt dynamic on the roster amusing and stated it. That's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 6 minutes ago, skins island connection said: I think that the time Colt was put in, he was going up against 1 or 2 other QBs who different personnel were wanting to see on the field. That one time, it was Griffin, Cousins and Colt, and I think Colt figured he would be on the low part of the totem pole, so he maybe tried too hard to make things happen but it didn't work out. Could be. I am interesting in finding out. 7 minutes ago, skins island connection said: I fully expect to see Colt throw a pic here and there, hopefully it will not be in a crucial part of the game. If Gruden's game plan calls for a lot more deep balls, maybe he does throw more pics; if the game plan calls for most everything to be within 10-15 yds the chance of a pic goes down, hopefully, but it will also limit the # of big plays, and that's something this team has been missing. I think Jay will have a good game plan for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: Could be. I am interesting in finding out. I think Jay will have a good game plan for him. I’m not loving this matchup as I’m guessing our run game will struggle and McCoy will be pressured on 3rd downs, The familiarity of McCoy/Gruden should be a big help though (to your point). I’d be a bit more confident if our run game and run D had shown a bit more the past few weeks. Here’s hoping our D performs like the last matchup. If so, I like McCoy’s chances at putting some points up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wit33 Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 52 minutes ago, skinny21 said: I’m not loving this matchup as I’m guessing our run game will struggle and McCoy will be pressured on 3rd downs, The familiarity of McCoy/Gruden should be a big help though (to your point). I’d be a bit more confident if our run game and run D had shown a bit more the past few weeks. Here’s hoping our D performs like the last matchup. If so, I like McCoy’s chances at putting some points up. I agree. Tough matchup. Worry about Mccoy taking bad sacks, moreso than TOs. Must stay in manageable situations. But hey, who knows, maybe I’ve been “Smithed” and team can afford to be a higher risk offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 14 minutes ago, wit33 said: I agree. Tough matchup. Worry about Mccoy taking bad sacks, moreso than TOs. Must stay in manageable situations. But hey, who knows, maybe I’ve been “Smithed” and team can afford to be a higher risk offense. Colt will get the ball out faster than Alex did a lot of the time. 1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said: think Jay will have a good game plan for him. He better. Colt knows this offense probably as well as Jay at this point. And Jay knows Colt as well as he knows himself If Jay calls 80% run on first down, unless it’s working like a wet dream, I’m going to go freaking nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 27 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said: Colt will get the ball out faster than Alex did a lot of the time. He better. Colt knows this offense probably as well as Jay at this point. And Jay knows Colt as well as he knows himself If Jay calls 80% run on first down, unless it’s working like a wet dream, I’m going to go freaking nuts. Might be hard to run, the Dallas defense including their MLBs are insane. This isn't an easy debut for Colt. Short week on the road with little time to practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: Might be hard to run, the Dallas defense including their MLBs are insane. This isn't an easy debut for Colt. Short week on the road with little time to practice. Short week won't matter, McCoy has had over 4 years to practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wit33 Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 17 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said: Colt will get the ball out faster than Alex did a lot of the time. I agree 100%, but we’ll see how Colt manages those “10” plays when the first or second read isn’t there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malapropismic Depository Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said: Might be hard to run, the Dallas defense including their MLBs are insane. This isn't an easy debut for Colt. Short week on the road with little time to practice. On the flip side, Colt hasn’t played on 3 years so there is almost no film on him. Jay could use that to his advantage if he changes things up and breaks pattern. This is a game Jay needs to be creative and aggressive, go after the win. If he plays not to lose, they will lose. I see this as a winnable game. Dallas just isn’t that good. They’ve won a couple games but they’re just OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hangman- C_Hanburger Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 30 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said: On the flip side, Colt hasn’t played on 3 years so there is almost no film on him. Jay could use that to his advantage if he changes things up and breaks pattern. This is a game Jay needs to be creative and aggressive, go after the win. If he plays not to lose, they will lose. I see this as a winnable game. Dallas just isn’t that good. They’ve won a couple games but they’re just OK. Should be some secondary plays IF Colt has time for it to develop. Got to go shotgun and stay away from under center. Too much pressure. Since Colt is real familiar with the O go some no huddle and play fast..No time to be conservative. Dallas can pressure and play the run so play quick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 20 minutes ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said: Should be some secondary plays IF Colt has time for it to develop. Got to go shotgun and stay away from under center. Too much pressure. Since Colt is real familiar with the O go some no huddle and play fast..No time to be conservative. Dallas can pressure and play the run so play quick I’d love to see them start with no huddle, which Jay has never done. Just to start with something completely different. If Jay is creative he can really push the advantage to the Skins. Hiwever, I am not confident Jay is that creative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSSkinz Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 Kind of strange they drop this news today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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