Let's All Get Behind Alex Smith! Or Not!! (M.E.T.) NO kirk talk---that goes in ATN forum

[TD_washingtonredskins]

16 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

Right before the Smith trade, I had accepted Kirk was gone but thought the FA options (Bradford, Smith, Keenum, Bridgewater) were not good enough to pursue, and would have rather rolled with McCoy and drafted a QB.  

 

I sincerely ask this: had we done this, does anyone think our record is any worse with McCoy as the starter?

 

Through 4 games, I think we'd still be 2-2. I don't think Smith was the primary reason we won either game and so much more went wrong in both losses. 

 

You do have to play it out for a few more games just get more data points, but I think it's easily fair to start wondering if McCoy plus Fuller and an extra third round pick would have been a better proposition. 

[Why am I Mr. Pink?]

Are we at that stage where a creative fans makes up his own subtitles making Hitler = Dan Snyder in that scene that everyone uses?

 

Iowa had a great one re the terps in basketball.

 

 

[Wildbunny]

Yeah let's get all behind Smith.

Let's all line up behind him and kicks his butt.

One at a time.

[profusion]

My guess is that Smith will be gone after next year. Skins new coach and/or front office drafts a QB and lets him sit next year. Team eats a big hunk of dead money.

 

Or maybe that's just my wishful thinking.

[JSSkinz]

My opinion has always been that the Alex trade and letting Kirk go are 2 different entities, Kirk didn't want to play here and we can debate why or whose fault it is but it doesn't matter, it was clear he wanted no part of being a Redskin.

 

I think Colt could run this offense better than Alex so that wasted contract and locking us into that enormous cap penalty with Alex is the tragic part.

 

[Why am I Mr. Pink?]

Just now, profusion said:

My guess is that Smith will be gone after next year. Skins new coach and/or front office drafts a QB and lets him sit next year. Team eats a big hunk of dead money.

 

Or maybe that's just my wishful thinking.

 

I think that was the road map all along.

 

Smith gives us somewhat competent QB play for 2 years while we try and put together an elite defense.

[JSSkinz]

2 minutes ago, profusion said:

My guess is that Smith will be gone after next year. Skins new coach and/or front office drafts a QB and lets him sit next year. Team eats a big hunk of dead money.

 

1

Post June 1 is a $21.5M dead cap hit, we could do it if we can maintain most of what we have now and roll it over, gonna be rough for a couple years though.

[wit33]

36 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

But that doesn't really matter, does it? New contracts will always get more money. You were making out like Alex wasn't being paid like a top 10 QB. He is. He also has the 3rd highest guaranteed money., and Alexs cap hit goes up slightly, from 10.3 to 10.7% of the cap. Basically, what we are both saying is true.

 

Im worried about per year hit. He will not come close to being a top ten paid QB in any season while a Skin. I’m cool with 10% of cap. For me, it helps stomach games like last night. 

[profusion]

9 minutes ago, Why am I Mr. Pink? said:

 

I think that was the road map all along.

 

Smith gives us somewhat competent QB play for 2 years while we try and put together an elite defense.

Agreed. The dumb thing is that they could have gotten somebody like Teddy Bridgewater for that role a lot cheaper (and no trade needed). Smith was a guy for a defense-first team to take on a win-now basis.

[JSSkinz]

So no KC Alex trolls this week?  You know its bad when the trolls feel sorry for you.

[Skinsinparadise]

46 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

 

Yes sir, we do feel differently. Too many unknowns for me to worry about above variables. 

 

 

What if I said it allows for Skins to sign Thompson, Dunbar, AP,  and Brown?

 

I get it from your perspective, as you were higher on Kirks value than myself. I would’ve supported any move that didn’t involve paying non elite QB elite money, because the market said so. Colt McCoy experience would’ve been fun. Point being, I just wasn’t wanting to go with the market trend of paying a QB whatever they demand. 

 

Time will tell. 

 

I'd feel differently but I'd also see it as a fantasy. 

 

The biggest gap in the Alex contract and Kirk is this year specifically.  Thompson already was signed. They signed Peterson for peanuts.   Brown is worth 3 million.  They have 10 million in cap room left over right now.  They had plenty to keep these guys.  

 

Next year and the year

2019.  Kirk 28 million a year.  Richardson plus Alex Smith = 27.9 million

2020.  Kirk 28 million a year.  Richardson plus Alex Smith = 29.9 million

 

This year they'd have a 5.6 million surplus if my math is correct.  In the next two years they'd have a 1.8 million deficit on that exchange.   So we are talking about a 3.8 million difference over three years.  Yeah so we can add some other guy at 1.25 million.  Another cheap veteran?

 

 

[Morneblade]

11 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

Im worried about per year hit. He will not come close to being a top ten paid QB in any season while a Skin. I’m cool with 10% of cap. For me, it helps stomach games like last night. 

 

We're looking at this very differently, obviously. You think that paying that much money is ok for a average QB, but don't want to spend more to get more. And I'd rather spend more to get more. Not a big fan of settling for being very average

[DJHJR86]

29 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

You do have to play it out for a few more games just get more data points, but I ?think it's easily fair to start wondering if McCoy plus Fuller and an extra third round pick would have been a better proposition. 

 

Obviously this also takes into account drafting Guice (assuming he were to stay healthy) and also keeping Fuller.  I'd much prefer McCoy in this scenario.  

[TD_washingtonredskins]

2 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

Obviously this also takes into account drafting Guice (assuming he were to stay healthy) and also keeping Fuller.  I'd much prefer McCoy in this scenario.  

 

In hindsight, so would I...more so because we would still be able to move in whatever direction we wanted to. With Smith, he's now our guy for 3 years or so. I think over 16 games, he will outperform what Colt would post. Then again, if that's the difference between 6-10 or 8-8, who really cares? My hope is that would have been the difference between 7-9 or 11-5, but it's not looking to be the case. 

[Skinsinparadise]

38 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

Through 4 games, I think we'd still be 2-2. I don't think Smith was the primary reason we won either game and so much more went wrong in both losses. 

 

You do have to play it out for a few more games just get more data points, but I think it's easily fair to start wondering if McCoy plus Fuller and an extra third round pick would have been a better proposition. 

 

I'd say 3-1.  Kirk played a lot better last year against a better NO defense with a weaker supporting cast.  However, the defense played better last year in that game.  But yeah no way I think we'd have lost with the Colts with Kirk at QB.

[Morneblade]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I'd say 3-1.  Kirk played a lot better last year against a better NO defense with a weaker supporting cast.  However, the defense played better last year in that game.  But yeah no way I think we'd have lost with the Colts with Kirk at QB.

 

Oh, we're 3-1 with Kirk, no doubt, and I think keep pace with NO and at least make it interesting late.

 

But we're likely 2-2 with McCoy, and without the 55 million dollar price tag. and will Kendall Fuller and a 3rd round pick.

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

Oh, we're 3-1 with Kirk, no doubt, and I think keep pace with NO and at least make it interesting late.

 

But we're likely 2-2 with McCoy, and without the 55 million dollar price tag. and will Kendall Fuller and a 3rd round pick.

 

I am not a McCoy guy but agree I'd have gone with him -- drafted a young guy.  I said so way back in January.  

 

For anybody who wants to hear entertaining venting Chad Dukes is going off.  One of his things about Alex last night -- its one of my same things I've mine but haven't heard too many others echo it -- those throws where Alex got his players leveled.  Dukes though talking about it a much more entertaining way about how Alex is perfectly cool with getting his players killed -- obviously hyperbole for humor.  But yeah that throw to Thompson and Peterson really bothered me.  

[Chachie]

From what I saw last night, Alex Smith had about an average of .5 seconds to throw the ball. Our o-line was putrid. If we're going to block like that for the rest of the season we might as well just run it for 2 downs and then throw slants on 3rd. Every. Single. Time.

[DJHJR86]

The only problem with McCoy would be health, and I too do not think over a 16 game season that we would fare better with Colt than we would with Alex.  The only caveat is how big of a difference in wins would there be?  5-11 to 7-9 or 6-10 to 8-8 would be meaningless, IMO.

[JSSkinz]

36 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

But yeah no way I think we'd have lost with the Colts with Kirk at QB.

I hate when we start comparing like this, Kirk laid an egg against the Bills and couldn't beat a Green Bay team that looks to be weakening.

 

I wouldn't be so confident to say he wouldn't but I wouldn't say he would have either because of that Buffalo and Green Bay game.

 

Like Chad just said, Kirk didn't want to be here, time to get over it.

[Morneblade]

1 minute ago, JSSkinz said:

I hate when we start comparing like this, Kirk laid an egg against the Bills and couldn't beat a Green Bay team that looks to be weakening.

 

I wouldn't be so confident to say he wouldn't but I wouldn't say he would have either because of that Buffalo and Green Bay game.

 

Like Chad just said, Kirk didn't want to be here, time to get over it.

 

In the Greenbay game, the special teams missed 3 FG's, and gave up a punt block for a TD. That's 16 points. Stop being a putz and blaming the QB for a complete and utter special teams meltdown that got the kicker cut the next day.

 

The only reason Kirk didn't "want to be here" is because we showed zero interest. We completely blew that negotiation.

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

 

Like Chad just said, Kirk didn't want to be here, time to get over it.

 

Chad also thinks Alex is trash and that he was wrong about him and ditto the team and there is no reason to have faith in its future.  

 

I'll get over Kirk when Bruce is out the door.  Until that happens he's relevant to me.  If that bothers you, sorry, but its how I feel and I've heard enough to believe that his performance is relevant to Bruce's future with the team. 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

50 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I'd say 3-1.  Kirk played a lot better last year against a better NO defense with a weaker supporting cast.  However, the defense played better last year in that game.  But yeah no way I think we'd have lost with the Colts with Kirk at QB.

 

Yeah, this wasn't a Kirk comparison

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

Yeah, this wasn't a Kirk comparison

 

From you or from me?  confused by the response.

[Darrell Green Fan]

1 hour ago, JSSkinz said:

My opinion has always been that the Alex trade and letting Kirk go are 2 different entities, Kirk didn't want to play here and we can debate why or whose fault it is but it doesn't matter, it was clear he wanted no part of being a Redskin.

 

I think Colt could run this offense better than Alex so that wasted contract and locking us into that enormous cap penalty with Alex is the tragic part.

 

 

I don't buy the Kirk Did Not Want To Be Here narrative and not just because I heard him deny it after signing with the Vikes.  I am confident that had we made the same offer there's a good chance he would have decided not to uproot his family and signed here.   

 

So in essence we traded Kirk, Fuller and a 3rd and in return we got a 34 year old Alex Smith and about 4 million in cap space.