Let's All Get Behind Alex Smith! Or Not!! (M.E.T.) NO kirk talk---that goes in ATN forum

[dckey]

1 hour ago, JoggingGod said:

We payed a bad QB $24 million a year lol. We apply here so much.

Please let me know when I stated that Kirk is a bad qb?  Reading is fundamental!!!!

[TD_washingtonredskins]

1 minute ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

 

With a QB who throws the ball more than ten yards downfield.

 

Sure, but trends are trends...we did more in the final 12 games than we did in the first 4. That's the only point I'm making. 

[JSSkinz]

25% of the season is a good sample size, I think we need to be honest.  Our offense has been trash for 12 of the 16 quarters we have played, please show me something that will push me away from the ledge and give me something to be optimistic about.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

2 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

25% of the season is a good sample size, I think we need to be honest.  Our offense has been trash for 12 of 16 quarters we have played, please show me something that will push me away from the ledge because I would love to be more optimistic than I am right now.

 

Optimistic for what? 

 

I'm not being snarky, but if you consider 25% a good sample size then you must think we are trending toward an 8-8 record (give or take a win/loss). If so, that's exactly where most of us thought we'd be with Smith. If **** went badly, we talked about maybe 5-6 wins. If everything somehow magically fell into place and we got a lot of breaks, maybe 10-6. 

 

We've played in 4 games. In 3 of them (2 wins and 1 loss) there was very little competitive aspect of the game after halftime (there was some in the Green Bay, but our offense never took a snap without a 2-score lead in horrible weather). In the other game, the score was close at one point (I think we kicked a FG to briefly pull within 14-9) but we had our **** handed to us in that game. 

 

My point? We have really only played in one legitimate second half out of 4. I don't think I've ever seen a season like this, so I don't really know if we have any clue what we are. But not many predicted much more than .500 with Smith. 

[JSSkinz]

18 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

Optimistic for what? 

 

I'm not being snarky, but if you consider 25% a good sample size then you must think we are trending toward an 8-8 record (give or take a win/loss). If so, that's exactly where most of us thought we'd be with Smith. If **** went badly, we talked about maybe 5-6 wins. If everything somehow magically fell into place and we got a lot of breaks, maybe 10-6. 

 

We've played in 4 games. In 3 of them (2 wins and 1 loss) there was very little competitive aspect of the game after halftime (there was some in the Green Bay, but our offense never took a snap without a 2-score lead in horrible weather). In the other game, the score was close at one point (I think we kicked a FG to briefly pull within 14-9) but we had our **** handed to us in that game. 

 

My point? We have really only played in one legitimate second half out of 4. I don't think I've ever seen a season like this, so I don't really know if we have any clue what we are. But not many predicted much more than .500 with Smith. 

Yeah, I think I need to edit the wording at end of that post, but the fact I said our offense has been trash in 12 of 16 quarters should have hit home with the point I was trying to make.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

If the expectation was 8-8 the whole time, what was the excitement for?

 

I mean, we are talking about the same team that went 7-9 last season, with most of its stars playing injured and/or not at all.  The team also added pieces in the offseason.

 

8-8 is pretty much the worst record this team could have.  I fail to see how making a trade for Smith at his salary is in any way a good thing if the expectation is 8-8.

[wit33]

3 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

Half the crap about him being an upgrade were tweets that were posted on this very site as launching points for the discussion.

 

It’s when I see posted, this is what the majority are thinking on twitter to counter a discussion on this board that loses me. The themes, discussions and opinions differ on this board than other forums, especially twitter.

 

Fans here have more substance and meat to arguments than in any other forum, you know, fanatics! 

 

Just lame and a scapegoat (my opinion) to point to substantiate an opinion on here. 

 

3 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

You are correct in that nobody would call him elite but they would tout all these positives about him that would lead one to believe he is elite.  

 

No one has eluded to Alex being elite on this board, so what’s the basis of this point? 

 

3 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

We are not making this stuff up, in fact you are one of the guys who would talk about some of these things you thought would “be the difference” with Alex at the helm.  Stuff like leadership, getting guys in and out of the huddle. Defense recognition, accuracy, etc.

 

I remain hopeful with some stuff listed above. Have no idea about defense recognition or accuracy as I wanted to see those things with my own eyes before coming to any concrete personal conclusion. 

 

I believed coming into season with certainty that Alex could provide elite plays with legs and had one elite throw in his bag— the seam throw. We’ve not seen the seam throw nearly enough. Was hoping this would be a major component to offense with Reed being on the receiving end a lot and Davis sprinkled in. 

 

Just for added perspective not being smug, but the Skins are sitting at 2-2, not 0-4. If they remain in playoff hunt and get in, all is good for me. Just need an at bat in today’s NFL. 

 

 

3 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

I just always found that wierd because like I’ve said a million times, if Alex is Kirk+ all that stuff, he’s damn near elite.

 

What’s the point of this position? You understand no one has said Smith is elite, literally no one. The group of elite is miiiiiiiles from guys 8-25. 

[Temper11]

3 hours ago, Alexa said:

Wow...  one td to a wr in 4 games. We're on our way!!!!!  

 

it does suck.  It wouldn't be so bad if you didn't get extra points for getting TDs with WRs. 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

38 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

Yeah, I think I need to edit the wording at end of that post, but the fact I said our offense has been trash in 12 of 16 quarters should have hit home with the point I was trying to make.

 

And I attempted to address the "4 good quarters" aspect with the fact that there's really only been one typical second half in our 4 games. The other games were already decided by the kickoff of the third quarter so I don't know how to necessarily evaluate our passing game when we had a 21-0 or 24-3 lead. 

 

17 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

If the expectation was 8-8 the whole time, what was the excitement for?

 

I mean, we are talking about the same team that went 7-9 last season, with most of its stars playing injured and/or not at all.  The team also added pieces in the offseason.

 

8-8 is pretty much the worst record this team could have.  I fail to see how making a trade for Smith at his salary is in any way a good thing if the expectation is 8-8.

 

What excitement? Maybe we run in different circles but I didn't see many "Alex is here, hello 11-5" opinions. I know that I, personally, thought that we had a pretty high floor (which Monday's game did NOT validate) and a pretty low ceiling with him. To me, it was a lateral move from a record standpoint. 

[Temper11]

4 hours ago, Alexa said:

Andy Reid basically had to force this guy to throw the ball down the field. Also I don't want a QB who goes an entire season w/out throwing a td pass to a wr. That is literally impossible to do. That tells you he doesn't want to throw it to them. He just wants to throw to backs and TE. Colt can do that for half the price. 

 

Or you could spend 2 seconds and actually look to see if he does throw to WRs.  In the 2014 season that you are referring too, Smith attempted 477 passes.  250 went to WR's, 227 went to other positions (RB, TE, FB).  So over half of the targets that year went to WRs over other skill positions.   Now, let's look at those positions:  His BEST WR target that year was cut just the following year from the 3-13 2015 Browns (Dwayne Bowe) and was out of football forever.  Of Smith's remaining WR's in 2014, four of them NEVER PLAYED BEYOND 2014 - none were picked up or even signed to practice squads (Jason Avant, Donnie Avery, Junior Hemingway, A.J. Jenkins).  If these players were creating separation, running good routes, making tough catches, etc. etc. and it was just Smith not throwing them the ball that resulted in this crooked stat of "no TDs to WRs in a full season", wouldn't some teams have picked them up?

 

Take it another step further.  His other targets, outside the WRs, were primarily Jamaal Charles and Travis Kelce accounting for 146 of the remaining 227 attempts.  Can anyone really blame him for targeting these players a comparatively disproportionate number of times to his insanely weak WR core?  You play with the cards you are dealt.  

[Alexa]

I wilI stand by what I said, I believe Colt can get the same production that Smith can get, or even better production. There was no reason to sign Smith, plus give up Fuller when we've had the exact same guy here the past several years. What the Redskins SHOULD have done is brought a vet in here to compete w/ Colt and look into the draft next year. It's total lack of vision by the Redskins. Think about how they've evaluated  QB's over the years...  give up picks for McNabb FAIL, give up a boatload of picks for Griffin SUPER FAIL, give up on Cousins cause you're bitter he was better than your chosen one FAIL, trade for a old vet who has a weak arm and won't throw downfield FUTURE FAIL. I'm no expert but from the outside it looks like the Redskins pee all over themselves when it comes to evaluating QB's. 

[Temper11]

15 minutes ago, Alexa said:

I wilI stand by what I said, I believe Colt can get the same production that Smith can get, or even better production. There was no reason to sign Smith, plus give up Fuller when we've had the exact same guy here the past several years. What the Redskins SHOULD have done is brought a vet in here to compete w/ Colt and look into the draft next year. It's total lack of vision by the Redskins. Think about how they've evaluated  QB's over the years...  give up picks for McNabb FAIL, give up a boatload of picks for Griffin SUPER FAIL, give up on Cousins cause you're bitter he was better than your chosen one FAIL, trade for a old vet who has a weak arm and won't throw downfield FUTURE FAIL. I'm no expert but from the outside it looks like the Redskins pee all over themselves when it comes to evaluating QB's. 

 

You'll stand by what you said?  What you said was "he doesn't want to throw it to them. He just wants to throw to backs and TE".  I then laid out for you the year in which he is most maligned on this particular point, he threw to his WRs more than the other skill positions - even when the talent at those positions were far inferior. 

 

Whether or not the skins should have traded for him?  I have no skin in that game and no opinion that isn't admittedly biased, but this tired smith criticism from 2014 is just crap when you look beyond the "hater" talking points.

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, Alexa said:

I wilI stand by what I said, I believe Colt can get the same production that Smith can get, or even better production. There was no reason to sign Smith, plus give up Fuller when we've had the exact same guy here the past several years. What the Redskins SHOULD have done is brought a vet in here to compete w/ Colt and look into the draft next year. It's total lack of vision by the Redskins. Think about how they've evaluated  QB's over the years...  give up picks for McNabb FAIL, give up a boatload of picks for Griffin SUPER FAIL, give up on Cousins cause you're bitter he was better than your chosen one FAIL, trade for a old vet who has a weak arm and won't throw downfield FUTURE FAIL. I'm no expert but from the outside it looks like the Redskins pee all over themselves when it comes to evaluating QB's. 

 

I don't know how its going to go down, yet.  Too early.  And I don't have the vibe Dan has his hands in picking this QB.   but I'll say to this point, Dan's instincts at QB have been horrendous over the years so hopefully he's hands off.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/daniel-snyder-washington-redskins-owner-still-struggles-to-find-formula-for-success/2014/01/04/5d86bfa4-74a4-11e3-bc6b-712d770c3715_story.html?utm_term=.021b61530da1

In 2007, he had his heart set on drafting quarterback Brady Quinn out of Notre Dame. “It took a week or so to convince him that we shouldn’t do that,” one former staffer said. 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I don't know how its going to go down, yet.  Too early.  And I don't have the vibe Dan has his hands in picking this QB.   but I'll say to this point, Dan's instincts at QB have been horrendous over the years so hopefully he's hands off.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/daniel-snyder-washington-redskins-owner-still-struggles-to-find-formula-for-success/2014/01/04/5d86bfa4-74a4-11e3-bc6b-712d770c3715_story.html?utm_term=.021b61530da1

In 2007, he had his heart set on drafting quarterback Brady Quinn out of Notre Dame. “It took a week or so to convince him that we shouldn’t do that,” one former staffer said. 

 

I have no doubt Dan is bad at picking players. Having said that, if that "former staffer" was still there in 2008 and had ANYTHING to do with personnel, I sure hope he was fired. Dan may have whiffed on Quinn, but I doubt he had much to do with the Thomas, Kelly, Davis 2nd round from Hell. 

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

I have no doubt Dan is bad at picking players. Having said that, if that "former staffer" was still there in 2008 and had ANYTHING to do with personnel, I sure hope he was fired. Dan may have whiffed on Quinn, but I doubt he had much to do with the Thomas, Kelly, Davis 2nd round from Hell. 

 

I am not so sure, read that article if you are curious it talks about it, basically from people who worked there they said Dan was very hands on in the draft until Shanny arrived.  Two different people who covered the team back then (escaping me right now whom) I recall said that Vinny took a lot of hits for Dan's choices.  Dan liked Vinny in part for covering his involvement.

 

Racing till today, I suspect Dan isn't that involved.  As for Alex, I've read two different accounts of who zeroed in on him, the one which seemed the most believable to me is that it was Kevin O'Connell who identified Alex Smith as the target -- don't sense it was Bruce or Dan though Bruce worked on the deal.  As for Kirk, I've hit that to death, that seemed 90% Bruce's baby as to letting him go.

 

But back to Dan.  Pushed Brad Johnson out for Jeff George.  Read somewhere it was his idea to draft Ramsey.  His idea to get McNabb.  As for RG3, that's a hard one to gauge -- depends on the narrative but all of them included he was in the mix for wanting him -- Bruce is the one who orchestrated the deal.  Then we got that Brady Quinn story there.  So he hasn't had the midas touch.  I don't think though any of it has anything to do with Alex.  

 

[HardcoreZorn]

3 hours ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

 

I'm sorry we can't all provide the sober, clear-headed analysis of you when watching a QB who has always been afraid to throw the ball downfield be afraid to throw the ball downfield as he plays for a team that for 25 years has always made the wrong decision.

 

I'm taking your advice. I'm putting on a smoking jacket, lighting a pipe, and I'm using these next 12 games to carefully consider all options on the type of player Young Mister Smith is.

 

I'll provide you a full report in February.

 

Indeed.

Cool, light up brother. Might make you relax a bit.

 

All I was saying is the season is young. We are still in first place as sad as that is, and contrary to popular belief this season could still go many directions. I don't know if a single soul thought when we were 2-4 and down big to Tampa that Kirk would be our QB for the next 3 years on his way to shattering franchise passing records and become the guy now so many people are angry we let get away. Not a single one. If you had told me during half time of code red game that Kirk Cousins was going to become the first player in NFL history to sign a fully guaranteed contract at 28M/year, I would have said pass the pipe myself. 

 

You can choose to believe this year is over and mope around about Alex being the QB. I think that's lame as hell, but you certainly aren't in the minority. What nobody can argue is that Alex Smith at the very least has shown he can throw the ball downfield. One season or not, you don't luck into becoming the best deep passer in football. Yes, even outside of targeting Tyreek Hill. What we also know is Alex Smith doesn't inherently want or choose to go down the field. Whether that's personnel related, he's too risk averse, or just getting used to a new system I'm still not sure yet. Maybe a combination.

 

What we also know is that we have shown we can be a very dangerous team. Also a downright laughable one. Seriously might be the most jekyl and hyde start to a season I've ever witnessed. But again, far too early to make a determination on where this is headed. Sarcastically insinuating I'm not sober and downright out of my mind? That's cool. Really grade A stuff from a guy who impulsively spews some of the BS you do.

 

And if I were a betting man, which I am, I'd venture to say I'll be quoted and someone will freak out over what I just said and proclaim me an Alex Smith fanboy. What's one more?

[Veryoldschool]

57 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am not so sure, read that article if you are curious it talks about it, basically from people who worked there they said Dan was very hands on in the draft until Shanny arrived.  Two different people who covered the team back then (escaping me right now whom) I recall said that Vinny took a lot of hits for Dan's choices.  Dan liked Vinny in part for covering his involvement.

 

Racing till today, I suspect Dan isn't that involved.  As for Alex, I've read two different accounts of who zeroed in on him, the one which seemed the most believable to me is that it was Kevin O'Connell who identified Alex Smith as the target -- don't sense it was Bruce or Dan though Bruce worked on the deal.  As for Kirk, I've hit that to death, that seemed 90% Bruce's baby as to letting him go.

 

But back to Dan.  Pushed Brad Johnson out for Jeff George.  Read somewhere it was his idea to draft Ramsey.  His idea to get McNabb.  As for RG3, that's a hard one to gauge -- depends on the narrative but all of them included he was in the mix for wanting him -- Bruce is the one who orchestrated the deal.  Then we got that Brady Quinn story there.  So he hasn't had the midas touch.  I don't think though any of it has anything to do with Alex.  

 

 

Drafting the right QB is tough lots of teams have made mistakes but it takes a special kind of incompetence not to recognize a talented QB on your own roster.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I’d just like to clear one thing up.  I know this feels like some kind of party for those of us that weren’t hot about Smith to begin with, but speaking for myself this isn’t about ‘told you so’.  I’m legitimately concerned.  We have this guy under contract for 3 years and are stuck with him for better or worse.  The thought that he’s not really a great fit for Jay’s system and can’t even be as good as he was in previous stints at his age is a scary one.  It’s early and he deserves time to get acclimated.  I don’t expect him to be that bad on the regular.  But nothing about how he’s played thus far with this cast leads me to believe things are on the up and up.  The games where we can run the ball and play defense are always fun, but always scarce ever since Jay got here.  That’s just not his offense.  I love the ‘idea’ of being this running juggernaut with a defense that doesn’t give up TD’s on the other side, but as we’ve seen that’s not likely to happen week after week.  Alex is going to have to start slinging the rock like he did last season or this current team isn’t going to win many games. Which is why bringing him in and paying him what we did was the epitome of a Bruce move to maintain status quo and delay his inevitable departure.  Mind boggling to me that even Alex’s biggest fans can see it any differently.  Even if this team gets 2017 Alex there aren’t enough horses around him.  Some of our highest paid players are getting old and we really don’t have much cap money.  

[ncr2h]

(I actually think Smith, on the whole, hasn't been as bad as I expected. He's playing better than league average, on the balance)

 

If you think Smith is playing poorly now, just think about this:

 

Smith is currently on pace for one of his best statistical seasons. Here is how his key metrics stack up compared to the rest of his career.

 

(in parentheses is how the particular statistic ranks vs. the other 13 seasons in his career)

 

ANY/A: 6.74 (#3)

NY/A: 6.81 (#2)

AY/A: 7.6 (#3)

Y/A: 7.7 (#3)

Comp %: 65.9 (#4)

TD %: 3% (#11)

Int %: 1.5% (#5)

Att/game: 33.75 (#4)

QBR: 59.2 (#3)

DYAR/game: 36 (#4)

ANY/A+: 107 (#3)

 

Essentially, if he maintains this pace it will be one of his best seasons as a QB, and he is accomplishing it on higher volume than he is used to (34 att./game). Sure, the TD passes aren't there and the INTs are on the high side, but given how infrequent those are it's probably best to wait a few more weeks to get a larger sample size to gauge his true rate of TDs and INTs in this particular offense.

 

He is playing at a solid level (ANY/A+ indicates that he is 7% more efficient than the league average; ANY/A+ of 110+ is typically Pro Bowl worthy).

 

So I guess the scary thing to consider, if you are a detractor, is that it can get significantly worse than this. His numbers this year are more efficient than each of his 3 non-2017 KC seasons, and also better than 1 of his 2 Harbaugh years with the 49ers.

[Skinsinparadise]

9 hours ago, ncr2h said:

 

Smith is currently on pace for one of his best statistical seasons. Here is how his key metrics stack up compared to the rest of his career.

 

(in parentheses is how the particular statistic ranks vs. the other 13 seasons in his career)

 

ANY/A: 6.74 (#3)

NY/A: 6.81 (#2)

AY/A: 7.6 (#3)

Y/A: 7.7 (#3)

Comp %: 65.9 (#4)

TD %: 3% (#11)

Int %: 1.5% (#5)

Att/game: 33.75 (#4)

QBR: 59.2 (#3)

DYAR/game: 36 (#4)

ANY/A+: 107 (#3)

 

 

You are  sort of making Grant Paulsen's point on the radio yesterday but in a nicer way.  He goes he doesn't understand why people are so shocked by this.  This is who Alex has been in his career -- that he needs a strong supporting cast to win and if he has to chuck the ball a lot, or come from behind -- that's not what Alex does for the most part so if you are in a shoot out, expect to lose.  You need that running game to work.  You need to jump ahead.  When that happens he wins.  When that doesn't happen -- not so much.  But in his mind, he hasn't played that different than in the past. 

 

But like Galdi is saying ironically as we talk (as he's playing Keim's rap from yesterday about Alex is not a come from behind kind of QB) if you are making a big trade for a QB and selling it -- it has to be better than this.  I said this on a thread before the season that one of the interviews from a guy from KC who covered Alex talked about how you need to jump ahead with Alex as QB because he doesn't do comebacks especially big ones -- and he said one year he out of nowhere had 2 comebacks and it was so shocking that he did so that the KC newspaper ran a feature about it.  But they remained the exception.

 

As for my own opinion, not sure I've landed on one yet about him.  Aside from I agree with Galdi that if Alex is who we've seen in the first 4 games, I don't like the idea that we have a Qb who can't duel well in shoot outs especially in come from behind efforts.  I am hoping that first half of GB is the real him.

 

10 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I’d just like to clear one thing up.  I know this feels like some kind of party for those of us that weren’t hot about Smith to begin with, but speaking for myself this isn’t about ‘told you so’.  I’m legitimately concerned.  We have this guy under contract for 3 years and are stuck with him for better or worse.  The thought that he’s not really a great fit for Jay’s system and can’t even be as good as he was in previous stints at his age is a scary one.  It’s early and he deserves time to get acclimated.  I don’t expect him to be that bad on the regular.  But nothing about how he’s played thus far with this cast leads me to believe things are on the up and up.  The games where we can run the ball and play defense are always fun, but always scarce ever since Jay got here.  That’s just not his offense.  I love the ‘idea’ of being this running juggernaut with a defense that doesn’t give up TD’s on the other side, but as we’ve seen that’s not likely to happen week after week.  Alex is going to have to start slinging the rock like he did last season or this current team isn’t going to win many games. Which is why bringing him in and paying him what we did was the epitome of a Bruce move to maintain status quo and delay his inevitable departure.  Mind boggling to me that even Alex’s biggest fans can see it any differently.  Even if this team gets 2017 Alex there aren’t enough horses around him.  Some of our highest paid players are getting old and we really don’t have much cap money.  

 

Same here.  Losses are painful to me. I was hyped for the MNF game, I looked forward to it all day.  So to have a dud like that ruined my night and chunk of my week.  The Alex trade seemed to be in part to save Bruce's job likely Jay too because Dan wasn't going to allow them a reboot.  As some know, I don't care about saving Bruce's job.  But if the season is another 8-8 type and they have to reboot with a 35 year old QB at that point who might be declining -- that's worse case scenario for the future of the franchise.  I said this on the Jay thread but if they reboot -- I'd bet money that it would be like what they did with Campbell -- Zorn, Jay-RG3 -- which is bring a coach that they will try to sell that fits Alex's skill set.  So an RPO tree one like Defillippo.  They have too much ego and money invested in the deal not to bring in a coach that they'd sell is right for him.   

 

Having said that, yuck to me if all of that happens -- with the exception of I think the team would benefit from Bruce out of personnel.  And I am hoping hard it things don't tank.  I don't think it will bomb here with Alex like it did with McNabb.  I never did. I didn't like the trade but not because I didn't think he was a good QB but because I saw him as a downgrade and I wasn't convinced it ensured better than mediocrity (considering the rest of the roster) and QBs hitting their mid 30 aren't slam dunk the same QBs as they were younger.   So I do think Alex plays better.  And I think it will happen soon -- as soon as this Sunday.  But as for the big picture, he needs to play better than the first 4 games.  And if we are this dependent on the running game than the season to me clearly rests on Adrian Peterson.

 

 

[DJHJR86]

9 hours ago, ncr2h said:

Smith is currently on pace for one of his best statistical seasons.

 

That really isn't reassuring considering he's had pretty mediocre numbers for a league that has become predominantly pass happy.  

[justice98]

1 hour ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

That really isn't reassuring considering he's had pretty mediocre numbers for a league that has become predominantly pass happy.  

 

In fairness to him, he never really had the kind of weapons in the passing game some of his contemporaries have had.  Travis Kelce and a rotation if not that great WRs that didnt last long. 

 

Who was his Julio Jones, Antonio Brown, Michael Thomas, etc?  Even the notch belows, like a Doug Baldwin, Golden Tate type.

 

Or god forbid a deep WR corps.  People on the outside that he could rely on year in, year out, game in, game out, and pump full of targets?  The one year he had a dynamic talent at WR in Tyreek Hill, you saw what he did.  

[Hunter44]

Andy Reid punked us again. If 8-8 plus or minus was the expectation then we might as well have started McCoy.

[Skinsinparadise]

40 minutes ago, justice98 said:

 

In fairness to him, he never really had the kind of weapons in the passing game some of his contemporaries have had.  Travis Kelce and a rotation if not that great WRs that didnt last long. 

 

Who was his Julio Jones, Antonio Brown, Michael Thomas, etc?  Even the notch belows, like a Doug Baldwin, Golden Tate type.

 

Or god forbid a deep WR corps.  People on the outside that he could rely on year in, year out, game in, game out, and pump full of targets?  The one year he had a dynamic talent at WR in Tyreek Hill, you saw what he did.  

 

Agree. KC had the #1 running game in the league last year.  Arguably one of the best TEs in the league who was healthy.  The best deep threat in the league.  A. Wilson was good in the slot.  He's gone from champagnes and limos to a Ford Taurus and juice boxes.  I don't think we have a true #1 WR or anything close to it.  Jordan has been healthy at least but they have used him gingerly.   That's why to me Peterson is so key.  When Peterson is on -- he's an elite level RB or close enough to it.

[Veryoldschool]

It is just 4 games and I got discouraged from the NO game but it is just 4 games and the Skins are leading their division.  I didn't have an opinion of Smith prior to the trade and while the first 4 games have convinced me the comparisons to Cousins were off base, Smith doesn't seem nearly as effective in the pocket as Kirk.  I hope Gruden and Smith can emphasize RPO or other aspects of the offense that leverage Smith's talent more effectively and the skills of the receivers on the roster.  Smith is our guy for the next 3 years the staff needs to focus on how to make use of him, surely they can do more than they have thus far.