Let's All Get Behind Alex Smith! Or Not!! (M.E.T.) NO kirk talk---that goes in ATN forum

[Skinsinparadise]

17 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I agree with pretty much all that.  I’ve got to imagine he’s going to be better than hes been as he gets more comfortable with the personnel.  But the signs are there that it needs to happen soon.  Hands on heads and frustration by anyone catching or hoping to catch passes.  Guys have been open and he’s not seeing it.  We also must run the ball to buy him some time because he simply doesn’t release it fast enough, which is a big reason why the Oline looks worse than they are.

 

One of Cooley's things about him in his film review is he doesn't stick with his reads in his view long enough, its typically 2 reads and then he typically scrambles  according to him.    And he also thought he takes more sacks then he should in the pocket.   So he seems more comfortable on the move.   So maybe that's the adjustment in the next game -- more boots, naked boots, etc.  RPOs.  And you need the run game to keep teams off balance to set up the play action. 

 

Both games we won Peterson was on fire.  Both games we lost Peterson was a nonfactor.   I think he's the key to the season.  Before him, I thought it was Guice.  

[Why am I Mr. Pink?]

Just now, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

The overall point is true that all QBs have bad games. But the reason why his game was Beck-like is because he’s already a guy with a reputation for being overly conservative, who was overly conservative and laughably bad in spots, against a team where that was never going to cut it to begin with.

 

 

 

jays offense is take what the D gives you. Alex seems like a good "take what the D gives you" QB.

 

Kirk didnt want to be here, Aaron Rodgers and the 10 other elite QBs arent available so the FO went and got a decent "can run a playbook" QB in Smith. I would have preferred taking a top 10 QB in this years draft but Im guessing that Bruce and Co know they dont have any more time to produce and we do have vets like Trent and Norman and Brown and Kerrigan etc who have high salaries and the FO thought we have somewhat of a core competitive team.

 

I guess I dont need to get ruffled when people want to go over the offseason Kirk for Alex thing and do the I told you so ... bc we all said Kirk > Alex. Thats not even up for debate. but if people want to debate it or say "i told you so" ... its one me to not respond.

 

No one thought we would be better than 8-8 this year ...  no one thought Alex was going to light it up or even be asked to light it up. Pointing out Alex is not an elite game changing QB is not news. Earth is round, water is wet, Alex Smith plays conservative ball.

 

I have control over what I what to respond to and I should just not enter the discussion .. if I think its a kinda non-point thing to discuss.

[Skinsinparadise]

The point here I've made before which is Alex having time to work with play makers.  He barely played in the preseason.  I like jay but that IMO was a mistake and I said if then.  Granted there was nothing they can do about Reed-Thompson.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2018/10/09/jay-gruden-redskins-have-several-problems-fix-we-have-cloud-looming-over-our-head/?utm_term=.2f98584b3624

The Redskins targeted Smith this offseason as the replacement for Kirk Cousins, who was headed off in free agency. But so far, with one fewer game than Cousins, Smith has thrown for 646 fewer yards and seven fewer touchdowns while being intercepted as many times as the new Vikings quarterback. In nearly every metric, Smith finds himself further down on the list than Cousins through the first quarter of the season.

 

Gruden wondered aloud if Smith has not had enough time to fully learn his new playmakers in Washington. During training camp, the Redskins didn’t play Chris Thompson and Jordan Reed, who were both coming off surgeries, and Smith didn’t have much time with wide receivers Josh Doctsonand Jamison Crowder, who missed time with injuries. That lack of familiarity could be affected again by health issues, as the team awaits word on injuries suffered Monday by running backs Thompson and Adrian Peterson, tight end Vernon Davis and wide receiver Paul Richardson Jr. Doctson didn’t play Monday because of a heel injury suffered in a practice last week.

 

“I believe in this football team,” Gruden said. “The offensive line, receivers, backs, I think obviously Alex. I firmly believe in this football team, and I have a strong belief in what they can do. We just have to get on the same page and take some accountability for what happened last night and move forward. If we can do that, we have a good opportunity to put our best foot forward.”

Even as the cloud of uncertainty lingers over his team’s head.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

2 minutes ago, Why am I Mr. Pink? said:

 

jays offense is take what the D gives you. Alex seems like a good "take what the D gives you" QB.

 

Kirk didnt want to be here, Aaron Rodgers and the 10 other elite QBs arent available so the FO went and got a decent "can run a playbook" QB in Smith. I would have preferred taking a top 10 QB in this years draft but Im guessing that Bruce and Co know they dont have any more time to produce and we do have vets like Trent and Norman and Brown and Kerrigan etc who have high salaries and the FO thought we have somewhat of a core competitive team.

 

I guess I dont need to get ruffled when people want to go over the offseason Kirk for Alex thing and do the I told you so ... bc we all said Kirk > Alex. Thats not even up for debate. but if people want to debate it or say "i told you so" ... its one me to not respond.

 

No one thought we would be better than 8-8 this year ...  no one thought Alex was going to light it up or even be asked to light it up. Pointing out Alex is not an elite game changing QB is not news. Earth is round, water is wet, Alex Smith plays conservative ball.

 

I have control over what I what to respond to and I should just not enter the discussion .. if I think its a kinda non-point thing to discuss.

Did you reply to the wrong post? Not being snarky but I’m not sure what most of that has to do with my post.

 

But to what you are talking about, I disagree that nobody thought Alex would light it up, was better than Kirk, be better than 8-8.  I think most rational people thought that but plenty of fans here and on twitter indeed said all

those things.  I had lurkers coming out from under cover to “set me straight” when I talked about how bad the trade was, how 2017 was an exception, and so on.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I get the pre-season argument, but only to an extent...does anyone really think the results would be significantly different if Smith took an extra 9 or 13 or 22 snaps over the 2-3 preseason games? 

 

Every little bit might help a bit. But, if there's one thing that our first 4 games say to me, it's that NOTHING could have turned our wins into losses and vice versa. We are a solid 2-2 because we mopped the floor with two teams and got destroyed by two teams (yes, the Colts game was more of a blowout than the score indicated in my book). 

 

An extra drive in August wasn't going to turn either of those games into wins...

[goskins10]

25 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

No one is saying their careers are similar.  

 

It was a John Beck-esque performance.  One game, one John Beck-esque performance.  

 

26 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

I never said he was as bad as Beck.  Clearly, he's not.  I said he had a John Beck like game.  That's actually his 2nd Beck like game on the year thus far.  

 

It makes no sense to say he had a Beck like game without implying he is same caliber QB as Beck since you can point out Beck like games for every QB in the NFL. And saying git's 2 games in not accurate either. He was not that bad against the Colts. He was not great but not like against NO. 

[Dancing Bear]

I am sorry but Kirk would have played the same way that Alex did last Monday. Kirk and the offense thrived when the offense included Garcon, Djax and a healthy Reed. Kirk did "jack" after Djax and Garcon left and Reed went down with an injury. It's not Alex Smith's fault that the offense is sputtering. Please look at Allen, and Gruden for the source of the problem.

Just Sayin'! 

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

I get the pre-season argument, but only to an extent...does anyone really think the results would be significantly different if Smith took an extra 9 or 13 or 22 snaps over the 2-3 preseason games? 

 

Every little bit might help a bit. But, if there's one thing that our first 4 games say to me, it's that NOTHING could have turned our wins into losses and vice versa. We are a solid 2-2 because we mopped the floor with two teams and got destroyed by two teams (yes, the Colts game was more of a blowout than the score indicated in my book). 

 

An extra drive in August wasn't going to turn either of those games into wins...

 

He got a lot more reps in the preseason in KC.   And here he's playing with new coaches-players.  Not saying it would have been the be all and end all but I think there is something to having reps with new players -- the more you are used to them, the better you get. 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

He got a lot more reps in the preseason in KC.   And here he's playing with new coaches-players.  Not saying it would have been the be all and end all but I think there is something to having reps with new players -- the more you are used to them, the better you get. 

 

Again, fundamentally I don't disagree. I guess all I'm saying is that I haven't seen a game (yet) where that has cost us anything. 

[dckey]

Is Kirk a winner?  He has all these stats but is 2-2-1....  I don't care about stats I want to win.  If Kirk wins only 8-9 games with Minnesota who was 13-3 last year without Kirk and Alex wins 8 games here, but Kirk throws for 1500 yards more and 15 touchdowns more what does it matter?

[JoggingGod]

1 minute ago, dckey said:

Is Kirk a winner?  He has all these stats but is 2-2-1....  I don't care about stats I want to win.  If Kirk wins only 8-9 games with Minnesota who was 13-3 last year without Kirk and Alex wins 8 games here, but Kirk throws for 1500 yards more and 15 touchdowns more what does it matter?

So was Drew Brees magically a mediocre QB from 2012-2016?

 

Also Smith has FOUR TD PASSES IN 4 GAMES. FOUR. He’s on pace for 16 TD 8 INT so far. And we invested heavily in this mother ****er.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Just now, dckey said:

Is Kirk a winner?  He has all these stats but is 2-2-1....  I don't care about stats I want to win.  If Kirk wins only 8-9 games with Minnesota who was 13-3 last year without Kirk and Alex wins 8 games here, but Kirk throws for 1500 yards more and 15 touchdowns more what does it matter?

Alex is, “he wins” 10 games a year like it’s his job, just ask Bruce.

 

Or judging QBs by win record is fundamentally flawed and illogical.

 

 

[JoeJacobyHOForRIOT]

7 minutes ago, dckey said:

Is Kirk a winner?  He has all these stats but is 2-2-1....  I don't care about stats I want to win.  If Kirk wins only 8-9 games with Minnesota who was 13-3 last year without Kirk and Alex wins 8 games here, but Kirk throws for 1500 yards more and 15 touchdowns more what does it matter?

The discussion is not about Kirk in Minnesota the discussion is about Kirk vs Alex in Washington. You are honestly going to sit here and tell me at this point in the season you feel more comfortable with Alex at QB than Kirk ? You really need to ask  why it matters if kirk throws for 15 more td's and 1500 yards even if we continue to lose ? You enjoy watching the Redskins get utterly destroyed and blown out ? One thing i know, We probably would not have beaten the Saints with Cousins at QB but at least the game would have been respectable and thats the thing that all the Cousin haters dont get. Kirk made us respectable and being respectable in the SNYDER ERA is enough for me, Its about as good as its going to get . Face reality we are never winning a SuperBowl under this Owner, aint happening.

[DJHJR86]

6 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Alex is, “he wins” 10 games a year like it’s his job, just ask Bruce.

 

I always find this argument funny.  "All he does is win", "most winningest QB", etc.  Dude has "won" 2 playoff games over 14 seasons, and somehow that's what convinces people that he can get us over the hump in the post season?  Mark Sanchez "won" 4 playoff games.  Rex Grossman "won" 2 playoff games.  If wins for a QB somehow count and matter in the regular season (judging by some who hold the opinion that Smith is a winner due to his record as a starter), why do they overlook his record in the playoffs?

[dckey]

2 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Alex is, “he wins” 10 games a year like it’s his job, just ask Bruce.

 

Or judging QBs by win record is fundamentally flawed and illogical.

 

 

Judging QB's by stats is even more flawed, I am not saying Alex is better than Kirk..  I just don't get the love fest for Kirk!!!!  IMO he is not worth the contract that was given him.  Also look at his pass attempts he's third where as Alex is 22nd, he should have more stats.  What I wonder is why doesn't Minnesota run the ball anymore they were top 10 in rushing att last year and now are 31st.

[Spaceman Spiff]

26 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

 

It makes no sense to say he had a Beck like game without implying he is same caliber QB as Beck since you can point out Beck like games for every QB in the NFL. And saying git's 2 games in not accurate either. He was not that bad against the Colts. He was not great but not like against NO. 

 

Are you being intentionally obtuse?

 

Beck-like game means he played like Beck for ONE GAME.  ONE SINGLE GAME.  If Tom Brady played like Beck for one game then Tom Brady did indeed have a BECK-LIKE performance.  

 

Nowhere did anyone say that Alex Smith or Tom Brady are as bad as Beck.  They just had a one, (1) single game where they performed like Beck.  

[JoeJacobyHOForRIOT]

12 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

 

Or judging QBs by win record is fundamentally flawed and illogical.

 

 

By that logic No small school college QB would ever get drafted Or any player for that matter. Do people really believe Kirk was a meidocre QB on a Great team ? lmao

[dckey]

2 minutes ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said:

The discussion is not about Kirk in Minnesota the discussion is about Kirk vs Alex in Washington. You are honestly going to sit here and tell me at this point in the season you feel more comfortable with Alex at QB than Kirk ? You really need to ask  why it matters if kirk throws for 15 more td's and 1500 yards even if we continue to lose ? You enjoy watching the Redskins get utterly destroyed and blown out ? One thing i know, We probably would not have beaten the Saints with Cousins at QB but at least the game would have been respectable and thats the thing that all the Cousin haters dont get. Kirk made us respectable and being respectable in the SNYDER ERA is enough for me, Its about as good as its going to get . Face reality we are never winning a SuperBowl under this Owner, aint happening.

I agree that Kirk would be better than Alex, but at what cost?  IMO he is not worth the money that he was given.  It happens to even good organizations when they overpay elite money for good talent.  I TOTALLY AGREE WITH NOT WINNING WITH SNYDER!!!!   To me it is a lost cause I don't care if Bill Belichec was the coach, I don't think we are winning in until we have a complete culture change and I mean change everything (Name, Stadium, Colors, Owner) we need a restart!!!!

[goskins10]

22 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Are you being intentionally obtuse?

 

Beck-like game means he played like Beck for ONE GAME.  ONE SINGLE GAME.  If Tom Brady played like Beck for one game then Tom Brady did indeed have a BECK-LIKE performance.  

 

Nowhere did anyone say that Alex Smith or Tom Brady are as bad as Beck.  They just had a one, (1) single game where they performed like Beck.  

 

I could ask the same question of you. I can find any QB in the NFL and make the same argument. So he had a bad game - period. The only reason to bring the comparison is to imply you believe Alex Smith is the same QB that John Beck is. 

 

And yelling (all caps) does not make the point any better. In fact it detracts from it. 

[Spaceman Spiff]

1 minute ago, goskins10 said:

 

I could ask the same question of you. I can find any QB in the NFL and make the same argument. So he had a bad game - period. The only reason to bring the comparison is to imply you believe Alex Smith is the same QB that John Beck is. 

 

And yelling (bold text) does not make the point any better. In fact it detracts from it. 

 

A bad game would indicate a Beck-like performance from any QB.  For one, single game (and one single game only), Alex Smith was the same QB that John Beck was.  

 

This is bold text.

[Veryoldschool]

46 minutes ago, Dancing Bear said:

I am sorry but Kirk would have played the same way that Alex did last Monday. Kirk and the offense thrived when the offense included Garcon, Djax and a healthy Reed. Kirk did "jack" after Djax and Garcon left and Reed went down with an injury. It's not Alex Smith's fault that the offense is sputtering. Please look at Allen, and Gruden for the source of the problem.

Just Sayin'! 

 

Cousins got over 4K last year with a worse roster than what Smith has to work with thus far.  Smith, his teammates, and coaches need to step up.  If Alex can't sit in a pocket and process the field as fast as Kirk that he has to be used differently to be more impactful. 

[DJHJR86]

16 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

The only reason to bring the comparison is to imply you believe Alex Smith is the same QB that John Beck is. 

 

This is crazy talk.  

^That was from week 2.  The only reason the John Beck name was thrown around was because Beck is a former Skins QB.  I'm sure when other teams QB's have bad games they say it looked like a prior crappy QB for them too.  

[goskins10]

8 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

A bad game would indicate a Beck-like performance from any QB.  For one, single game (and one single game only), Alex Smith was the same QB that John Beck was.  

 

This is bold text.

 

Wow, you caught the typo. How impressive.

 

You can deny it all you want, but you can't get away from the fact that the only reason to relate Alex's game to John Beck is to imply he is like John Beck since the same can be said for every QB in the NFL including Brady, Manning and others. If it's just one game, why not say he had a bad game like a Brady bad game?

 

Just own it that you are taking a chance to cheap shot Smith by likening him to John Beck. 

 

 

3 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

This is crazy talk. 

 

Edit
^That was from week 2.  The only reason the John Beck name was thrown around was because Beck is a former Skins QB.  I'm sure when other teams QB's have bad games they say it looked like a prior crappy QB for them too.  

 

At least you admit you and others are implying he is the same QB as John Beck. 

 

 

[DJHJR86]

4 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

At least you admit you and others are implying he is the same QB as John Beck. 

 

You have to be trolling at this point.  

[JoggingGod]

49 minutes ago, dckey said:

Judging QB's by stats is even more flawed, I am not saying Alex is better than Kirk..  I just don't get the love fest for Kirk!!!!  IMO he is not worth the contract that was given him.  Also look at his pass attempts he's third where as Alex is 22nd, he should have more stats.  What I wonder is why doesn't Minnesota run the ball anymore they were top 10 in rushing att last year and now are 31st.

Actually stats are all that matter for QBs lmfao. Kirk is a top 12 QB.