Nerm Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 55 minutes ago, Dan73 said: I didn't want the Skins trading up. I would rather draft White or Rudolph in the 4th and have them work with Smith for the next 3 years. If the Skins had the ILB and NT set for a few years great then go get Mayfield. As Cowboys fan, the scenario I would have loved to see was the Skins trading up for a QB... Then take another QB in the fourth. The reactions to this would be so funny after the RG3 / Cousins saga just ended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 I don't see the Redskins taking a QB before the mid-late rounds where they will waste another 6th rounder on a QB who will never have an impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan73 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 27 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said: Not sure why you continue with the nasty tone. We were discussing NFL players. I simply asked for examples of the "many" players outside of Tom Brady who have signed for less money "for the good of the team" as Cousins was supposed to do according to some. You trotted out exactly 2 examples and they were hockey players from years ago. Then you threw out an assistant coach for reasons known only to you. It's really not my fault you can't pull relevant examples as I had requested. Probably because there aren't many. Again not my fault, you were the one to make the claim. You said atheletes don't do it. I have show players who have. The same as the Falcons are expecting their qb to take a team friendly deal next time around. Tampa Bali took a pay cut a few years ago. Fitzgerald offered to take one to keep Boldin. I am not doing your homework for you anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 Some reports indicate Smith specified he didn't want to go to a team that was going to draft a QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan73 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 Which reports? Seeing Chief fans are saying thanks to Smith by donating to his charity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said: That wasn't the point I was making. It was draft a QB in the First Rd as opposed to trading Alex Smith. We debated that in threads for weeks before this trade happened. I am disagreeing with the premise that trading for Alex Smith was the no brainer best case scenario. I was agreeing with Dan73 about Mike White in the 4th round and groom the dude -- but I am not sure that's in play for reasons I expressed. But to play along with your point. Ask Andy Reid. He did exactly that. With the exact same QB. Personally, I don't think its a theory based conversation at all anyway. It's player specific. If for example Jay thinks Josh Allen is a pure stud and he can mold him into the next Wentz and he falls to 13, then heck yeah IMO you draft him. We got a 34 year old QB. We are going to have to look for a QB soon enough. If one you love falls in your lap, IMO you take him. I would guess we moved forward from Kirk and decided Smith will hold the position for at least 2, probably 3 years. Just what Gruden must want. Otherwise we wouldn't make the trade. Gruden is planning to win with Smith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bh32 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 I wanted Cousins to stay and hated the trade,but now i think it's better that he has moved on...Cousins didn't want to be here and Smith does which can make a big difference in the teams moral.. Sometimes i think Cousins tried to hard to preserve his stats and the teams suffered at times for it..I still think he is a very good QB,but he needed to go in the end.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 1 hour ago, Dan73 said: Which reports? Seeing Chief fans are saying thanks to Smith by donating to his charity. Cooley-Sheehan this week. Tandler said they are unlikely taking a QB until late rounds Just listened to a Keim segment on Galdi from a couple of days ago where he thought 6th round at the earliest. They could all be wrong. Who knows. Cooley-Sheehan were the most specific saying they heard via a Browns source that one of Alex's conditions of going to a new team is that they don't draft the heir apparent to him in this specific draft. 49 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said: I would guess we moved forward from Kirk and decided Smith will hold the position for at least 2, probably 3 years. Just what Gruden must want. Otherwise we wouldn't make the trade. Gruden is planning to win with Smith. I agree but 2-3 years doesn't preclude you from taking a young QB in the draft. Heck it took Kirk a few years to get it going. My point is if this draft is as some say one of the best-deepest in a long time. Bruce Arians said the best draft for QBs in 20 years -- seems a shame to skip it if there is someone they like. I personally was back and forth on this year draft for QB but got more jazzed about it after the Senior Bowl. My preference was from the get go wasn't to trade for a veteran but to draft someone high if Kirk leaves. But since we got a 34 year old QB now, I'd like to have a young guy to groom if there is one they like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrFan Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: Cooley-Sheehan this week. Tandler said they are unlikely taking a QB until late rounds Thanks a lot for the infos, I really do appreciate since I don't have time to follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wit33 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 @Skinsinparadise How old is Kirk? How old is Alex? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan73 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: Cooley-Sheehan this week. Tandler said they are unlikely taking a QB until late rounds Just listened to a Keim segment on Galdi from a couple of days ago where he thought 6th round at the earliest. They could all be wrong. Who knows. Cooley-Sheehan were the most specific saying they heard via a Browns source that one of Alex's conditions of going to a new team that they don't draft the heir apparent to him in this specific draft. I agree but 2-3 years doesn't preclude you from taking a young QB in the draft. Heck it took Kirk a few years to get it going. My point is if this draft is as some say one of the best-deepest in a long time. Bruce Arians said the best draft for QBs in 20 years -- seems a shame to skip it if there is someone they like. My preference was from the get go wasn't to trade for a veteran but to draft someone high if Kirk leaves. But since we got a 34 year old QB now, I'd like to have a young guy to groom if there is one they like. I could see not wanting to be I a situation where come in and you are being forced out the door right away. So you ask to be traded to a team where you can play. Browns are predicted to draft QB 2st round. But a late round qb to groom behind him for 2 or 3 years would be ideal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Yet Kirk is an entitled jerk because he wasn't happy about being drafted behind a Heisman winner the team traded 3 1st rounders for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan73 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 After reading this I am kind of glad they are moving on. Liberty University transcribed Cousins' interview: "I prayed about it, and I do believe that the Lord, at least in my life, likes to use one-year contracts and not long-term contracts. He likes to take me to the edge of the Red Sea and have me see there is water in front of me, there are mountains on either side, and there are Egyptians chasing me from behind. And He wants me to sit there for a moment and go, 'God, You better show up.' And then He parts the Red Sea and He's done that time and again in my life, on the football field and off the football field." http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2731609-kirk-cousins-says-god-told-him-to-sign-1-year-contract-with-redskins what is next is he going to go all Bill O'Reilly and blame God when things go bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 41 minutes ago, wit33 said: @Skinsinparadise How old is Kirk? How old is Alex? Sarcasm? About a 4 year difference. Why not just jump to the point you are trying to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wit33 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 24 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: Sarcasm? About a 4 year difference. Why not just jump to the point you are trying to make. My apologies, I should’ve added more to the sarcasm to lighten the tone of my response. Yes, I used you as an example of how some are saying Smith is 34 and Kirk is 29 (not even sure if you have—again, my apologies). For those who aren’t 100% on the age: Smith will play year 1 at 34, year 2 at 35, year 3 at 36 and year 4 at 37. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 So if this team fails to make the playoffs again this year, and Gruden is fired, I guess that means the next coach is saddled with the QB? Hope it works out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 4 minutes ago, wit33 said: For or those who aren’t 100% on the age: Smith will play year 1 at 34, year 2 at 35, year 3 at 36 and year 4 at 37. What about year 5? I lost count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 58 minutes ago, Dan73 said: I could see not wanting to be I a situation where come in and you are being forced out the door right away. So you ask to be traded to a team where you can play. Browns are predicted to draft QB 2st round. But a late round qb to groom behind him for 2 or 3 years would be ideal. Personally I don't typically get jazzed for a 6th-7th rounder QB. 4th round to me is a different baby, your odds are at least better that they make it -- maybe Mike White, Luke Falk or whomever. But I was disappointed to hear that Cooley-Sheehan segment about that idea is likely out. Yeah I get it from Alex Smith's perspective. For me I am just trying to look at this as clinically as possible without getting into all the new beginnings hype stuff. I've been jazzed about every new QB we've had here going back to Shuler initially. From my perspective, two things have to happen for me to dig this a lot more than I do right now. #1. Get a 2nd rounder for Kirk (I understand its extremely unlikely to happen) but if it does I'd feel better about the draft pick loss -- I hate losing a high third in this specific draft. #2. I do like Mike White and I could probably get into someone else that's a 4th round type talent in this specific draft. I'd like the whole thing a lot more if they were grooming a young guy who can sit for 3 years. And the key point for me is this seems the draft to do it. I think if we are waiting until the 6th-7th round its likely a missed opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan73 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: Personally I don't typically get jazzed for a 6th-7th rounder QB. 4th round to me is a different baby, your odds are at least better that they make it -- maybe Mike White, Luke Falk or whomever. But I was disappointed to hear that Cooley-Sheehan segment about that idea is likely out. Yeah I get it from Alex Smith's perspective. For me I am just trying to look at this as clinically as possible without getting into all the new beginnings hype stuff. I've been jazzed about every new QB we've had here going back to Shuler initially. From my perspective, two things have to happen for me to dig this a lot more than I do right now. #1. Get a 2nd rounder for Kirk (I understand its extremely unlikely to happen) but if it does I'd feel better about the draft pick loss -- I hate losing a high third in this specific draft. #2. I do like Mike White and I could probably get into someone else that's a 4th round type talent in this specific draft. I'd like the whole thing a lot more if they were grooming a young guy who can sit for 3 years. And the key point for me is this seems the draft to do it. I think if we are waiting until the 6th-7th round its likely a missed opportunity. I am hoping the package Kirk and their first for a higher first round pick then trade back picking up multiple picks. Resign Brown sign Poe and Bell then draft well each round for the future including qb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 43 minutes ago, wit33 said: My apologies, I should’ve added more to the sarcasm to lighten the tone of my response. Yes, I used you as an example of how some are saying Smith is 34 and Kirk is 29 (not even sure if you have—again, my apologies). For or those who aren’t 100% on the age: Smith will play year 1 at 34, year 2 at 35, year 3 at 36 and year 4 at 37. OK, thanks for the clarification but I am still not sure what you are getting at. He's not that old? Or he is old? I presume you mean he's not that old? If you notice in one of my posts, I talked about Kirk having likely 7 more seasons. Alex 3 years. That perfectly meets their gap of 4 years. Granted, it doesn't all happen neatly like that in the NFL. They can get hurt? Some like Eli drop off a cliff at 36. And some still play well as they age. I think some of this debate though is too polarizing where we got the Kirk versus Alex -- good, bad, evil, greed, etc. There isn't enough nuance IMO to all of that. And I feel bad for Alex Smith (not really Kirk in this discussion, he's gone so he's not relevant going forward) because if he's propped up as things will be bigger and better -- I think some people might feel let down. And that's not because I don't believe in Alex Smith. I am actually if anything a little hyped about Alex Smith. But I don't see him as anything above Kirk in any way. It's that Alex is another mortal QB. He's not Aaron Rodgers. He's not Tom Brady. I see him as a QB who makes less mistakes and is more mobile than Kirk -- whereas Kirk has better arm strength and I think can make more with less. I personally think Kirk is slightly better. But to me its quibbling either way. I understand those who say they are the same and even those who like Alex better. To me they are in the same ballpark. And if people think he will do the things that they felt let down by Kirk -- especially overcoming a bad defense and running game -- they will likely feel let down again. Granted that feeling won't happen until the season begins. That's good. We got a long offseason. Any new Qb deserves a honeymoon -- especially Alex who is beaten down by some of the Chief fan base in a similar way that Kirk detractors go after him. So I bet he will enjoy the adulation. The thing I like the most about the trade, is I sense adding Alex Smith brings a more sense of desperation to the FO to upgrade the supporting cast -- and if so that will serve him well. My problem with the deal isn't Alex Smith. It's that they traded for him. If he was a FA, it would have been night and day for me. No way did I see ideal scenario for Kirk leaving would be that not only would we not gain draft capital with him walking out but we'd actually lose draft capital and a player, too. That to me isn't a job well done by the FO. In the old days, I'd just focus on for example McNabb and the excitement of him being here -- and just gloss over the compensation to get him as just a pesky annoyance that spoils the fun of me enjoying the idea he's a Redskin. I'd buy my jersey and grin in anticipation for the season. I just can't do that anymore. So I can't just think of Alex Smith in a vacuum. I am looking at the whole drill. Not saying I am right. Just my perspective. 23 minutes ago, Dan73 said: I am hoping the package Kirk and their first for a higher first round pick then trade back picking up multiple picks. Resign Brown sign Poe and Bell then draft well each round for the future including qb. If they get major compensation for Kirk it would be a game changer for me specifically as the idea of a trade. Trading for a veteran was my least favorite option -- i am not jumping up and down about losing Kirk and draft capital and a player. But yeah if they got something for Kirk that would wipe out to some degree the combination of losing a player and losing capital. Unfortunately, I think I am more likely to get drafted in the first round this year than us getting a draft pick for Kirk. But I'd love to be wrong on that one. Seems like every beat guy thinks its a major long shot. Only guy who seems to think it happens is Cooley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor 36 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 3 hours ago, Dan73 said: I am not doing your homework for you anymore. Obviously you don't understand proper message board etiquette, which we practice quite a bit on this site, so let me fill you in. When YOU make a claim, the onus is on YOU to back it up and prove it. No one else has homework except you to do. You made the claim about all of these players; any poster on this site has the right to question you on it. You can either back it up, or admit you were wrong. Expecting others to do YOUR work for you or simply ignoring posters requests for facts because you can't provide them is a reflection on YOU, not the posters questioning your claim and not on this site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: Personally I don't typically get jazzed for a 6th-7th rounder QB. 4th round to me is a different baby, your odds are at least better that they make it -- maybe Mike White, Luke Falk or whomever. But I was disappointed to hear that Cooley-Sheehan segment about that idea is likely out. Yeah I get it from Alex Smith's perspective. I have my doubts either fo those guys end up being around even in the 4th. As I've said (probably too much), I love this draft for developmental QBs. And that's just my opinion obviously. But whether you agree or not, the point is it's really hard to find a QB. A Redskin fan doesn't need to be told that. And you need to find one and take him. If you think this is the year to take one, then then take one. You should make a decision based not eh quality of the QB(s). But with our pathetic FO, they will wait a year and reach for one because they'll decide they don't want to worry about replacing Alex Smith until he's 37/38 rather than 36/37. That's the kind of ludicrously bad mindset that we're dealing with, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 7 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said: I have my doubts either fo those guys end up being around even in the 4th. As I've said (probably too much), I love this draft for developmental QBs. And that's just my opinion obviously. But whether you agree or not, the point is it's really hard to find a QB. A Redskin fan doesn't need to be told that. And you need to find one and take him. If you think this is the year to take one, then then take one. You should make a decision based not eh quality of the QB(s). But with our pathetic FO, they will wait a year and reach for one because they'll decide they don't want to worry about replacing Alex Smith until he's 37/38 rather than 36/37. That's the kind of ludicrously bad mindset that we're dealing with, imo. I was hardcore on the record weeks ago on this and I doubled down on it plenty of late including today. If I recall ditto you, Zoony and some others. That is, my #1 desire was drafting a QB high in the draft if Kirk is gone. My least favorite option was trading for a veteran QB. But since the deed is done. My fallback position is drafting a QB in this draft somewhere but not in the 5th-7th round. 4th round would be the latest I'd do it. It's not the ideal spot for me. If it was left to me like I said in a post today if lets say Josh Allen falls to #13 and they love the dude -- draft him. If Mason Rudolph falls to their 2nd round pick and they love him -- draft him. But if that Sheehan-Cooley report is on the money than this isn't in play. So as i often do with this team, I move in my mind towards what could be salvaged based on the hand that we got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wit33 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 @Skinsinparadise I appreciate your response and agree with some of what you say. I only consider myself a Kirk “expert”, because I’ve watched and listened to everything he’s done. With Alex Smith, I’m forced to rely on stats, Chief fan, NFL pundits (yuck) and whatever I’ve gathered through watching him for whatever reason. If he’s at or around 10-11% of the team’s salary cap each year of the deal, I can get with it and be able to better deal with his shortcomings. I like the move, because I believe in the roster more than most and feel prime year talent exists at critical spots on a roster. A good free agency (3 starters or so) and draft (2starters) and hopefully the teams ready to compete for an at bat in the playoffs. I get usong history, but when discussing different humans (Smith vs Mcnabb) I choose not to: Mcnabb consistently battled weight issues, commitment to studying, partying and drinking. When you lead this kind of lifestyle, age will knock at the door sooner. Smith by all reports keeps himself in great shape, leads a “clean” life, enjoys the prep work and how guys push back the clock these days is much different than even 10 years ago. I guess i say all this because I feel the Skins don’t need to worry about the QB spot for another 3 years, right around the time the core players will be hitting the end of their primes. No biggie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 20 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: But since the deed is done. My fallback position is drafting a QB in this draft somewhere but not in the 5th-7th round. 4th round would be the latest I'd do it. It's not the ideal spot for me. If it was left to me like I said in a post today if lets say Josh Allen falls to #13 and they love the dude -- draft him. If Mason Rudolph falls to their 2nd round pick and they love him -- draft him.. But we won't, because we're "going for it". And "it" is likely going to stop them from even properly evaluating QBs, because we have to use all our resources to win as many games as possible, now, rather than thinking of the future. Of course, "it" means still being a long shot for even a playoff spot, which is why it amazes me that so many people are OK with this path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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