BurgundyBooger Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 KC doesn't want to play for this trash heap franchise and some of us seem hellbent to vilify his actions as if there's no justification for them. As fans we know this team is dumpster fire so imagine the horrors he's witnessed and had to suffer firsthand as a player, now we're talking about tagging him and handcuffing him further to the rails of the titanic for draft picks as if additional selections will somehow inoculate this organization from its disease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wit33 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 7 minutes ago, BurgundyBooger said: KC doesn't want to play for this trash heap franchise and some of us seem hellbent to vilify his actions as if there's not justification for them. As fans we know this team is dumpster fire so imagine the horrors he's witnessed and had to suffer firsthand as a player, now we're talking about tagging him and handcuffing him further to the rails of the titanic for draft picks as if additional selections will somehow inoculate this organization from its disease. Yet... the Skins will just a good of a chance as 25 other teams or so next year. It’s tough in the NFL to win consistently (most teams don’t, even so called well run organizations) without an elite coach or QB. The Skins will continue to have neither and have a chance to win 13 or 14 games next year, hopefully turnovers and fortunate plays fall the Skins way and “we” can sneak in with 9 or 10 wins. With this all said, I like the direction of the total roster more than most on here and feel a good draft, free agency and improvements from young guys can help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 6 hours ago, wit33 said: Yet... the Skins will just a good of a chance as 25 other teams or so next year. It’s tough in the NFL to win consistently (most teams don’t, even so called well run organizations) without an elite coach or QB. The Skins will continue to have neither and have a chance to win 13 or 14 games next year, hopefully turnovers and fortunate plays fall the Skins way and “we” can sneak in with 9 or 10 wins. With this all said, I like the direction of the total roster more than most on here and feel a good draft, free agency and improvements from young guys can help. As much as I hate them, the Redskins are miles behind teams like the Eagles. We haven't won 11 games since 1991, but this, THIS, is the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MassSkinsFan Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 On 2/2/2018 at 9:05 AM, Burgold said: The Front Office failed to man up and pay off their bet. I'm trying to imagine Daniel Snyder manning up. Maybe toddlering up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 8 hours ago, BurgundyBooger said: KC doesn't want to play for this trash heap franchise and some of us seem hellbent to vilify his actions as if there's no justification for them. As fans we know this team is dumpster fire so imagine the horrors he's witnessed and had to suffer firsthand as a player, now we're talking about tagging him and handcuffing him further to the rails of the titanic for draft picks as if additional selections will somehow inoculate this organization from its disease. They need to just let him go and hope for a compensatory pick. End the drama. 8 hours ago, wit33 said: Yet... the Skins will just a good of a chance as 25 other teams or so next year. It’s tough in the NFL to win consistently (most teams don’t, even so called well run organizations) without an elite coach or QB. The Skins will continue to have neither and have a chance to win 13 or 14 games next year, hopefully turnovers and fortunate plays fall the Skins way and “we” can sneak in with 9 or 10 wins. With this all said, I like the direction of the total roster more than most on here and feel a good draft, free agency and improvements from young guys can help. I don't get it. Is there a punch line? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 8 hours ago, wit33 said: Yet... the Skins will just a good of a chance as 25 other teams or so next year. So what you mean is....no chance? I do understand that the Redskins are not in a bubble of ineptitude all by themselves. However we have created unique ways to be embarrassing over the years, unfortunately that embarrassment carries over to new regimes, who then find new ways to be embarrassing. While I agree that the overall roster isn't terrible and could possibly win 9 or ten games in a season. It's very clear when watching the Super Bowl just how far behind a team like the Redskins are from competing at that level. Sure, we can make it about how there's a bunch of other teams that suck too. But that's the same loser mindset that I believe guys like Dan Snyder have. Rather than look at the Eagles and think about how they were able to accomplish crashing and burning only to be followed by the ultimate victory a mere 2 years later and thinking "How do I do that?", I get the impression he believes "eh, they are just lucky". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonez3 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 9 hours ago, Rufus T Firefly said: Yeah, to be clear, the last step of what I was saying would be mostly a bluff. He doesn't want to sign the tag and get stuck here, though I don't think that would happen It's more about forcing the Redskins hand. The Skins would have to do some juggling to even fit the tag under the cap and if Cousins is refusing to sign it, so he can't be dealt as FA progresses, they have to make a call. Kirk's job in that scenario is to make it as hard as possible to not rescind it. Few things... The Skins can fit him under the cap at the expense of being inactive during the early part of fee agency, whopdedamndo. Not a big loss there IMO The Skins can tag him Feb 20th, giving teams 3 weeks to marinate the idea of a trade and such. So, come 3/14, the details will be well thought out for interested suitors. We'll know in the first couple days where we stand. If nobody bit, you throw the low ball offer out there, 3rd rounder this year. Phones start ringing off the hook. Lastly, the 'hardball theory' for Kurt- The idea he would refuse to sign tender to wait out process and have offer rescinded doesn't seem to make sense financially. He'll be getting a 34 million dollar deal- which the Skins would never fulfill or nor should they worry because a team would trade for him eventually as noted above. Kurt can bank on a team taking him with that number (with obvious hopes to restructure into LTD with that 34 mil as leverage), makes him signing it a extraordinary position of strength no matter what. I can see how this can be a near seamless process with little risk because there are multiple teams that desperately need a QB like him. Namely, the Browns who have multiple picks in the first 2 rounds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKskins Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 8 hours ago, BurgundyBooger said: KC doesn't want to play for this trash heap franchise and some of us seem hellbent to vilify his actions as if there's no justification for them. I don't think anybody is pissed off he doesn't want to be a Redskin. People are pissed off because he spent two years talking out of both sides of his mouth pretending he did want to be a Redskin. Like I said, I have no problem with Kirk the player, but Kirk the person I think is a bit of a jerk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theTruthTeller Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, UKskins said: I don't think anybody is pissed off he doesn't want to be a Redskin. People are pissed off because he spent two years talking out of both sides of his mouth pretending he did want to be a Redskin. Like I said, I have no problem with Kirk the player, but Kirk the person I think is a bit of a jerk. Because he said nice things about the Skins, including the FO, even after they continued to send him low ball offers and blame him for not accepting them? So he lied a little, because he's a class individual. If he had been totally honest, then you'd have reason to call him a "bit of a jerk". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, UKskins said: I don't think anybody is pissed off he doesn't want to be a Redskin. People are pissed off because he spent two years talking out of both sides of his mouth pretending he did want to be a Redskin. Like I said, I have no problem with Kirk the player, but Kirk the person I think is a bit of a jerk. 2 years? 2 years ago his agent dropped a legit offer on Bruce's desk and the team never even responded to it. The team never even got serious about signing Cousins until May of 2017 and by that time it would appear the ship had sailed. I'm not quite sure what you expect the guy to say when he's tagged and playing for the team. "No, I don't want to be here, can't wait to get an opportunity to get the heck out of dodge". I think you should be more concerned with what BA did to cause a guy to want to take his talents elsewhere, more so than what that guy has to say in the midst of it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJD2 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 For everyone saying that there is no way they franchise him a 3rd time and try to trade him, consider that from all appearances this is now personal between Bruce and Kirk's camp. Also, Bruce just said something recently about all the players they are getting back from IR, which can be interpreted as they don't necessarily have to be active in FA. I have to believe he will try and will fail miserably. I'm on the record saying **** them all, apply the exclusive tag, and either get 2 firsts or make him sit for a year, inactive for all 16 weeks. Burn it all down. But that's just because I'm a son of a **** and tired of the bull**** from the last 20+ years of this clown show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 1 minute ago, DJD2 said: For everyone saying that there is no way they franchise him a 3rd time and try to trade him, consider that from all appearances this is now personal between Bruce and Kirk's camp. No doubt, it's been personal for a while. This is exactly what I mean when I say that we invent new ways to be embarrassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingdaddy Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: So what you mean is....no chance? I do understand that the Redskins are not in a bubble of ineptitude all by themselves. However we have created unique ways to be embarrassing over the years, unfortunately that embarrassment carries over to new regimes, who then find new ways to be embarrassing. While I agree that the overall roster isn't terrible and could possibly win 9 or ten games in a season. It's very clear when watching the Super Bowl just how far behind a team like the Redskins are from competing at that level. Sure, we can make it about how there's a bunch of other teams that suck too. But that's the same loser mindset that I believe guys like Dan Snyder have. Rather than look at the Eagles and think about how they were able to accomplish crashing and burning only to be followed by the ultimate victory a mere 2 years later and thinking "How do I do that?", I get the impression he believes "eh, they are just lucky". I've seen every Eagles game this year because I live in a Philly suburb. Their roster, outside of Wentz, is not any better than the Redskins roster but they are coached much, much better. They played with incredible confidence and chemistry not matter who filled in due to injury. Offensively, the Eagles play calling and execution is better than any team in the league and it's why they won the Super Bowl. Peterson does not play scared and is a master at creating matchup problems for opposing defenses. Defensively the Eagles are not lights out. They rotate good, not great lineman throughout and have a great safety in Malcolm Jenkins. You ask any Eagles fan and they'll tell you the Skins played the Eagles as tough as any team this year.....we actually matched up well against them this year and dominated them the previous 5 games before this season. Lets move on from this KC deal, sign a couple of key free agents, draft a couple rookies who can contribute right away and let Alex Smith do his thing. Then, it will all come down to how good of a coach Jay Gruden is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMK9973 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 1 hour ago, Bonez3 said: Lastly, the 'hardball theory' for Kurt- The idea he would refuse to sign tender to wait out process and have offer rescinded doesn't seem to make sense financially. He'll be getting a 34 million dollar deal- which the Skins would never fulfill or nor should they worry because a team would trade for him eventually as noted above. Kurt can bank on a team taking him with that number (with obvious hopes to restructure into LTD with that 34 mil as leverage), makes him signing it a extraordinary position of strength no matter what. I can see how this can be a near seamless process with little risk because there are multiple teams that desperately need a QB like him. Namely, the Browns who have multiple picks in the first 2 rounds Explain to me -EVEN of the skins tag him for 34m to trade - and make it a low ball trade because they cant keep him - even a "4th round in 2019 say - WHY would a team make this trade? Who is going to want to spend 34m for KC for a 1 year rental? And if you are KC - you KNOW after this year you can never be tagged again - so why would he sign a LTD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 1 minute ago, kingdaddy said: I've seen every Eagles game this year because I live in a Philly suburb. Their roster, outside of Wentz, is not any better than the Redskins roster but they are coached much, much better. I just stopped right here. We're never going to agree on anything if you truly believe that. The Philly roster is better than the Redskins roster hands down, not even in the ballpark. I appreciate Pederson's willingness to adjust and doing so with Foles led to the ultimate prize. But I'm not about to get carried away and make this about coaching. The Eagles won because they put together a monster roster and have depth. Sure coaching plays a role, but it's not even close to the primary reason for their success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 1 minute ago, TMK9973 said: Explain to me -EVEN of the skins tag him for 34m to trade - and make it a low ball trade because they cant keep him - even a "4th round in 2019 say - WHY would a team make this trade? A team would do this to avoid a bidding war. I can see a team doing that. Not sure why Kirk would want to though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMK9973 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 1 minute ago, Burgold said: A team would do this to avoid a bidding war. I can see a team doing that. Not sure why Kirk would want to though. But they dont. I mean - They avoid a bidding war for this year only -But 34m a year will prob win you a bidding war anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carex Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 3 hours ago, Riggo#44 said: As much as I hate them, the Redskins are miles behind teams like the Eagles. We haven't won 11 games since 1991, but this, THIS, is the year. the person you're responded to plainly said 9 or 10 wins AND qualified we're equal to 25 other teams in the league. There's 32 in the league. So your counter arguement totally misses him, because the Eagles could easily be in the upper tier we're not equal to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve09ru Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 51 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: 2 years? 2 years ago his agent dropped a legit offer on Bruce's desk and the team never even responded to it. The team never even got serious about signing Cousins until May of 2017 and by that time it would appear the ship had sailed. I'm not quite sure what you expect the guy to say when he's tagged and playing for the team. "No, I don't want to be here, can't wait to get an opportunity to get the heck out of dodge". I think you should be more concerned with what BA did to cause a guy to want to take his talents elsewhere, more so than what that guy has to say in the midst of it all. I'm not a BA fan but people keep blaming him for this LTD mess with Cousins. 2 years ago was on Scott, last year was on Cousins as he stated he wasn't signing a LTD regardless of offer as it was best situation for him to sign the tag again. Bruce can be blamed for the trade if people want to throw something his way on the Cousins debacle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carex Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 9 minutes ago, Burgold said: A team would do this to avoid a bidding war. I can see a team doing that. Not sure why Kirk would want to though. Well, if the team we're trading him to is someone he wants to go to, he risks pissing them off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 5 minutes ago, TMK9973 said: But they dont. I mean - They avoid a bidding war for this year only -But 34m a year will prob win you a bidding war anyway... The way these things work out, at least the way they've worked out in the past, is that the team trades for the franchised player who then turns around and agrees to a long term deal. It's basically a three party trade with the player being the last party. It's tough to pull off which is why you don't often see franchised players swapping teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonez3 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 16 minutes ago, TMK9973 said: Explain to me -EVEN of the skins tag him for 34m to trade - and make it a low ball trade because they cant keep him - even a "4th round in 2019 say - WHY would a team make this trade? Who is going to want to spend 34m for KC for a 1 year rental? And if you are KC - you KNOW after this year you can never be tagged again - so why would he sign a LTD? A team that doesn't want to lose him in a bidding war. They can guarantee his rights and than sit him at the table and hash out a LTD without the pressure of silent bidders. The 34 mil is the price you pay for that, and the team will obviously feel confident they are going to get a LTD with him. But the fact is, it will likely be converted to LTD with guarantees. And, the reason he signs a LTD is more guaranteed money, insurance in case of catastrophic injury or decline The advantage for Kurt is that when they are hashing out the details, he has the leverage of the 34 mil as a starting point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carex Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 4 minutes ago, steve09ru said: I'm not a BA fan but people keep blaming him for this LTD mess with Cousins. 2 years ago was on Scott, last year was on Cousins as he stated he wasn't signing a LTD regardless of offer as it was best situation for him to sign the tag again. Bruce can be blamed for the trade if people want to throw something his way on the Cousins debacle. and since when is three years a LTD? 1 hour ago, theTruthTeller said: Because he said nice things about the Skins, including the FO, even after they continued to send him low ball offers and blame him for not accepting them? So he lied a little, because he's a class individual. If he had been totally honest, then you'd have reason to call him a "bit of a jerk". he's been just as ****ty on his negotiating stance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMK9973 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, Bonez3 said: A team that doesn't want to lose him in a bidding war. They can guarantee his rights and than sit him at the table and hash out a LTD without the pressure of silent bidders. The 34 mil is the price you pay for that. But the fact is, it will likely be converted to LTD with guarantees. The advantage for Kurt is that when they are hashing out the details, he has the leverage of the 34 mil as a starting point. ok - I get the argument now. But here is a guy that refused to sign a LTD for 2 years because he wants to be a FA and this year said he wouldn't even talk to the Skins until FA. So this idea that KC will now say "I'll start doing a LTD NOW - Even though what I Really want is to hit FA and if Im tagged that means i get 34m this year and a GUARANTEED Free Agency next year" is just way to far fetched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 1 minute ago, steve09ru said: I'm not a BA fan but people keep blaming him for this LTD mess with Cousins. 2 years ago was on Scott, last year was on Cousins as he stated he wasn't signing a LTD regardless of offer as it was best situation for him to sign the tag again. Bruce can be blamed for the trade if people want to throw something his way on the Cousins debacle. First off, it requires some real mental gymnastics to even come up with the opinion you have. But to put it simply, BA hired Scot McCloughan and told the world he would have full control of personnel. Within 8 months of being on the job, Scot was ready to make a very cheap LTD with Cousins the moment he was named starter. BA canned that idea as they were under the impression Cousins would fail and most likely RG3 would be back in the saddle again. Nothing wrong with having that opinion, but when the guy you hire to run personnel wants to do something, he shouldn't have to ask you if it's okay and you shouldn't have the audacity to override it. But the bottom line in all that is, even if in the la la land you live in this situation is Scot's fault, Bruce hired Scot. The end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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