Riggo#44 Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 1 minute ago, OVCChairman said: Do we look at him long term? I'm not exactly beaming with confidence having Kendrick / Difo slotted as the opening day rotation there. Stop gaps. Kieboom the Greater is the long term solution there. Kendrick's Achilles and defense, and Difo's lack of offense are big holes. Now, if Difo had Kendrick's bat? That would be terrific Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OVCChairman Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 2 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said: Stop gaps. Kieboom the Greater is the long term solution there. Kendrick's Achilles and defense, and Difo's lack of offense are big holes. Now, if Difo had Kendrick's bat? That would be terrific agreed.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 16 hours ago, Renegade7 said: Production? Possible. Potential? Never. Compare Harper and Soto's rookie years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 1 hour ago, OVCChairman said: I actually don't think Harper being here lines us up for our best shot at a ring. I love Harp, and I want to bring him back, but at the money he's talking about... especially now that we got Corbin, it's likely we lose Rendon AND possibly Turner if we give Harper what it would cost to sign both of them. We have depth and talent coming up in the outfield. It's easier to replace an all star LF than is it replace an entire side of your infield. Not to mention we're going to have to address 1B sooner rather than later. Zimm is there, but how much longer does he have? Side note, has Carter Kieboom ever played 2nd base? I don't think he's ready YET but it might not hurt to take a look at him for the long term there. There is no salary cap, if Lerner wants to give them all the money he wants, he can. There's like 8 teams ahead of us in overall payroll right now, and the top 10 is litered with teams that are either better then us or been to / won the world series recently. This is very much an arms race, and I trust Harper's future more then Eaton's who's about to be 30 and constantly missing games. Yankees front office saying all the right things about not wanting to overpay Corbin, they know damn well they needed him to get over the top versus Boston because their starting pitching isn't good enough. What are we doing here? Trying to be competitive or trying to win rings? Odds are they we'll develop a 1B same way we got our 3B, SS, Soto has now come out of nowhere, if we don't sign someone... or ask Bryce to play pinch just in case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted December 8, 2018 Author Share Posted December 8, 2018 18 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said: Compare Harper and Soto's rookie years. I can't do that. I look at players and want a lot of guys in their 26-30 year old primes where their bodies and minds are synced up to be most productive. Pitchers not included. I think you add some years there because those guys are more mental with the how/when they push it. I'll say it again. I REALLY want Harper here for his whole career. But I am also thinking of the impact he has to the Org on the total. He gives them a starter in the ASG almost every year. He sells Jerseys, Tickets, Ads. As a player. He has had amazing moments and flat moments. But I'd argue he has that "it" factor that every team needs. No..... he's not even my favorite player on the team. Everyone loves Max. I really enjoy watching Trea doing his "Kid Flash" stuff. When he's healthy and hitting and playing good D. He's awesome. Soto is going to be a star. He has this clutchness. We'll see what Robles becomes Rendon is so low key you forget how consistently good he is. I do love Zimm. He's like Captain America: The First Avenger. He'll get a statue at Nats Park. But I think his tank is close to empty. They've tried to keep him healthy a dozen ways and it never works. We'll see what happens this year. But it's time to think beyond him. Back to Harper. I just wanted to see him become the leader of this year. Taking over from Werth. Getting old her. Winning it all here. It's sad to think that he'll be in LA or Philly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 17 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said: Compare Harper and Soto's rookie years. You can't put that in context until Soto plays more. Harper's and Soto's don't grow on trees, and even though Harper has shown up and down, he nearly double the number of homeruns in his 4th season that both these players had in their rookie year. That's what we just let walk out the door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 Soto is Harper without the hype. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OVCChairman Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 I seriously hope you guys don't think i'm talking down about Harper... I'm just saying at some point you reach the number that is too big. I want Harper here, but I can understand why the Lerners aren't willing to hand over $400 mil over 10 years. It may blow up in my face, but something tells me that where he goes, they're going to have to forfeit other aspects of their team that he cant make up for. I understand the impact it has on the franchise because he does have a global effect. YES i would love the Lerners to pay Harper AND Rendon AND Turner AND Soto... but it's not my money, I'm just saying I can understand how they feel 10 years @ $300 mil is a fair offer, and if he chooses to go bigger that's ok too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted December 8, 2018 Author Share Posted December 8, 2018 2 minutes ago, OVCChairman said: I seriously hope you guys don't think i'm talking down about Harper... I'm just saying at some point you reach the number that is too big. I want Harper here, but I can understand why the Lerners aren't willing to hand over $400 mil over 10 years. It may blow up in my face, but something tells me that where he goes, they're going to have to forfeit other aspects of their team that he cant make up for. I understand the impact it has on the franchise because he does have a global effect. YES i would love the Lerners to pay Harper AND Rendon AND Turner AND Soto... but it's not my money, I'm just saying I can understand how they feel 10 years @ $300 mil is a fair offer, and if he chooses to go bigger that's ok too I didn't take it that way. Honestly. I can still surprised by this. I know Mark Lerner has legally taken control of this org. But I really felt with Ted being 93. He would personally want this extra push right now to spend whatever while he's around. So, shows how much I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 6 minutes ago, OVCChairman said: I seriously hope you guys don't think i'm talking down about Harper... I'm just saying at some point you reach the number that is too big. I want Harper here, but I can understand why the Lerners aren't willing to hand over $400 mil over 10 years. It may blow up in my face, but something tells me that where he goes, they're going to have to forfeit other aspects of their team that he cant make up for. I understand the impact it has on the franchise because he does have a global effect. YES i would love the Lerners to pay Harper AND Rendon AND Turner AND Soto... but it's not my money, I'm just saying I can understand how they feel 10 years @ $300 mil is a fair offer, and if he chooses to go bigger that's ok too I dont think that's what you are saying either. There are teams that would have to make choices we wouldn't have to if we signed him because we can go as far as we want with this along with our other players. I thought the Yankees were a really good baseball team and Red Soxs scrapped them off their windshield like a bug in October. Boston payroll is $30 million higher then ours right now. This is about getting over the top and what it takes to do that. And i also don't trust Eaton to stay healthy at all. I can see the Lerners saying they didn't want to get taken advantage of from a price tag standpoint and its so close to the argument for letting Cousins go its not even funny (i was fine with not giving him the money, but whatever we saved doesn't make up for the current cluster**** we have at QB now, not at all). Here's our shoulda coulda woulda moment to have our own bash bros, i think were taking a bigger risk with our outfield then we want to admit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 I don’t think anyone is talking down Harper. It’s totally reasonable to come down on either side of whether he’s worth the $350+ million dollars he’ll command, especially for an organization that has other very solid options at his position and holes elsewhere. I literally named my dog after the kid, but I’m okay with not resigning him to a blockbuster contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 19 minutes ago, OVCChairman said: YES i would love the Lerners to pay Harper AND Rendon AND Turner AND Soto... but it's not my money, I'm just saying I can understand how they feel 10 years @ $300 mil is a fair offer, and if he chooses to go bigger that's ok too This is the way I feel too. I love, love, love watching Harper hit, gun people down at the plate, and his epic batflips. My wallpaper on my phone is his pose after his Derby-winning Homer. It'll be hard to see him in another uniform--and absolutely soul-crushing if it's the Phillies and all of those garbage fans come out of the woodwork. But, I've always said you make these decisions with the head, and not the heart. Does it make the most sense to give him 12 for 450? In a myopic view, sure. But what's the opportunity cost? Rendon? Turner? Strasburg has an opt out after this year. If he has a great year, he's gone. What FAs do we miss out on in 2, 3, 4 years? Next year's FA class is insane also. I'll miss him, but it might make the most baseball sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OVCChairman Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 30 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: I dont think that's what you are saying either. There are teams that would have to make choices we wouldn't have to if we signed him because we can go as far as we want with this along with our other players. I thought the Yankees were a really good baseball team and Red Soxs scrapped them off their windshield like a bug in October. Boston payroll is $30 million higher then ours right now. This is about getting over the top and what it takes to do that. And i also don't trust Eaton to stay healthy at all. I can see the Lerners saying they didn't want to get taken advantage of from a price tag standpoint and its so close to the argument for letting Cousins go its not even funny (i was fine with not giving him the money, but whatever we saved doesn't make up for the current cluster**** we have at QB now, not at all). Here's our shoulda coulda woulda moment to have our own bash bros, i think were taking a bigger risk with our outfield then we want to admit. I actually agree with you. I have my concerns about whether Harper does put us over the top though... He's larger than life from a marketing standpoint, but as far as baseball goes, he's a lot closer to the pack. When he's on, he's one of the best 3 players in baseball... but we're still paying him when he's off. The market is going to dictate what he gets, but that doesn't mean it's a value to the team that pays it. No matter where he goes, some good players are going to have played their last game in that teams jersey to make room for it, regardless of the fact that there's no cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 @OVCChairman Ya, I may be wrong, but I believe that if Harper was going to get exactly what he wanted he would of gotten it by now and its because of what you just said, his up and down swings and even years. His contract is going to be somewhere between want he wants and what we offered, my hope is the closer that number comes to what we offered, the more open we are to at least considering it. Don't let him go to Philly (a division rival) over something like option years or extra $10-$20 million to the overall contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OVCChairman Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 22 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: @OVCChairman Ya, I may be wrong, but I believe that if Harper was going to get exactly what he wanted he would of gotten it by now and its because of what you just said, his up and down swings and even years. His contract is going to be somewhere between want he wants and what we offered, my hope is the closer that number comes to what we offered, the more open we are to at least considering it. Don't let him go to Philly (a division rival) over something like option years or extra $10-$20 million to the overall contract. I don't think that's off the table. Part of me feels like Mark Lerner was posturing, and drawing a line in the sand, because Boris hasn't come at him with a number... and likely wont til after the winter meetings when he can see the faces of multiple GMs in one place. Theres going to be a lot of conversations over adult beverages that we're not going to be privy to. I don't think the deal is done til after the first of the year, but Boris probably has his feelers out with no real concrete offer on the table other than ours. We don't know the hang up either. Lerner may not want to pay 10 years... so what's to say that Boras doesn't come back with that 7 year, $250 mil and he take it? (The only thing I can think of is that puts him in no mans land regarding his next contract because it expires when he's 33) That would be an 35+ per year on average, and we know how much the Nats like the deferred payment structure.. I want to say I heard somewhere that Harper was against that, but I don't think he'd stand that hard and fast against it if the money makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OVCChairman Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 The other thing to consider is the complete dismissal of the big contracts over the last 2 - 3 years. I want to say there have been a handful of top tier talent players that have had to wait til late in the process to sign, and didnt get anywhere near the deal they expected. Arrieta being one and JD Martinez being another that come to mind. Arrieta floated out there a while and Martinez didnt sign til close to Valentines Day, 5 years, $110 mil. Now how much of that was teams holding fast knowing this years FA class was going to be so top heavy, and how much of it was the teams looking at these big time, long term deals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 Another thing to consider is that other teams have to give up quite a bit in picks and international money to sign him, and those assets have increased in value with the shift towards younger players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 How did we miss this all year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRobi21 Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Rizzo has done his job. If Harper leaves, he leaves. This isn't a Bruce Allen/Kirk Cousins scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Bryce is gone? Barry ain't buying it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 I do admit, I feel like this is weighing the theory of this team fiscally making all the right moves post Harper to make a legit WS run, vs Harper unlocking that Angry Gohan untapped potential, and just one handed kamehameha'ing the entire East for a decade (for Philly). That would kinda feel like LeBron x2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 10 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said: I do admit, I feel like this is weighing the theory of this team fiscally making all the right moves post Harper to make a legit WS run, vs Harper unlocking that Angry Gohan untapped potential, and just one handed kamehameha'ing the entire East for a decade (for Philly). That would kinda feel like LeBron x2 Going to the Phillies would be the worst possible outcome. It would force Nats fans to actively root against the home grown boy. Scenarios from best to worst: 1. Re-signs with the Nats. 2. Signs with an AL team not named Yankees or Red Sox. 3. Signs with an NL West team. 4. Decides to retire and open a casino in Vegas. 5. Signs with the Phillies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRobi21 Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Oh BOY would that be nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 2 hours ago, Mr. Sinister said: I do admit, I feel like this is weighing the theory of this team fiscally making all the right moves post Harper to make a legit WS run, vs Harper unlocking that Angry Gohan untapped potential, and just one handed kamehameha'ing the entire East for a decade (for Philly). That would kinda feel like LeBron x2 I don't think its the same as Lebron. For one, in basketball one individual player is a LOT more impactful than it is in football. Secondly, Harper hasn't been anywhere near as good a baseball player as Lebron is/was a basketball player. The Giants won three World Series AFTER Bonds retired. The Rangers made it to back to back World Series AFTER A-Rod left. Ted Williams never won a ring. Neither did Tony Gwynn. Cal Ripken won one but it was very early in his career and was really just the end of the Oriole dynasty of the 60s/70s/early 80s. A-Rod didn't win until he joined a stacked Yankee team. So no, Harper leaving would not be the death knell of this franchise. Quietly it might be the best thing for us assuming we use the money we would have spent on him to build a quality all around roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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