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The Bruce Allen/GM Thread

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On 4/8/2018 at 10:29 AM, XtremeFan55 said:

My thinking for years is that Snyder is asset rich but cash poor.

 

I have come to that conclusion too over the last couple years. 

 

Hopefully things get bad enough for him that he's forced to sell the team to the Lerners.

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On 12/04/2018 at 11:14 PM, Malapropismic Depository said:

I havn't ever posted in this thread before, but I assume everyone has seen the article from last week, making a claim that Dan was furious with Bruce, and on the verge of firing him, err actually the term used was "reassigned"

 

If you're talking about this article:

Then I can tell you that 82 people read it through BHRBN, so probably not everyone participating in this thread.

 

Let's not forget also, that Riggo's Rag is not really a pure beat reporting website like the Washington Post, Times, ESPN, or NBC Sports amongst others. That's some blog that just give some insight, analysis, and debates over rumours or reports.

That article is based on rumour, nothing certain, so take it as it is: an opinion regarding a rumour, nothing more.There might be some truth in it, but don't take it for granted until someone with more experience or relations jumps on it.

 

I've started includined those websites to BHRBN because I believe they bring some fresh minds over things, and it seems to be appreciated as they tend to gather the most views on BHRBN. Still, I would advise everyone to remember that those are just blogs mostly.

 

This kind of stuff about Bruce comes back every now and then in the media, but Bruce is quite a smart politician and knows how to deal with it. After all, as much as I don't like him, he might very well succeed and be bailed out by Jay and Alex Smith if both takes the team to the playoffs. Draft picks? Just like last year, he might as well got lucky have a furious run on QB early that will make him have another no brainer kind of pick at 13, making him looks like he was smart enough and good at evaluating players. Which he definately is not.

Edited by Wildbunny
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On ‎4‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 1:51 PM, Thinking Skins said:

I was doing a lot of talking about Bruce Allen and The Packers way of building a team. Here's a nice article on that matter.

 

http://archive.jsonline.com/sports/packers/ted-thompson-will-live-and-die-with-his-draft-and-develop-philosophy-b99354283z1-275794411.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Its a bit dated (2014) and we know that Thompson has been releived of his duties, but I think its very interesting seeing Bruce's actions and while they do not mirror Thompson's (Bruce is more involved in FA than Thompson), its not like Thompson's method didn't bring him success.

 

 

The Packers are possibly the least talented team in the league, aside from one obvious dude.

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Here's another person ranking GMs.  They only went up to 26 because the other GMs were newbees

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000927154/article/gm-power-rankings-howie-roseman-kevin-colbert-among-best

 

RANK

25

bruce-allen1.jpg

Bruce Allen, Redskins

 

 

The power structure in Washington has Allen at the top as president, with senior VP of player personnel Doug Williams and coach Jay Gruden also in the mix. The team's handling of Kirk Cousins' contract situation -- not to mention Allen's pronunciation of his quarterback's name -- raised a lot of eyebrows. Allen hired former GM Scot McCloughan in 2015, then fired him two years later on the eve of free agency. When he worked with Jon Gruden in Tampa, Allen and Gruden's enduring love of veterans kept the Bucs stuck in the NFL's middle class. That's where thisRedskins roster also resides.

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23 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Unfortunately for us that’s spot on.

 

Like Bruce or don't like Bruce, I don't think there is much doubt that our FO is now disregarded almost the same way it was in the Cerrato era just in a different way.   Yeah its not considered a FA clown show like it was back then.  But Bruce has a large number of critics as to the dude's character and competence. 

 

Some like to cite straggler media types who like Bruce as proof that things are otherwise.  But people forget Cerrato had guys who had his back too including both Kiper and McShay.   Every football guy I am sure has friends in the business and guys who will prop them up.  

 

But we aren't popping up in any survey as having one of the better GMs -- the ones that I recall that were done like this were from Rotoworld and Breer and if I recall we were around the bottom just like that article I posted via NFL.com.    Draft Geek Matt Miller ran about a month ago a segment about how we have the worst FO in the league.

 

Do I personally think we have the worst?  Nope.  To me its "meh" but not horrible.  But I think Bruce has earned the badge of being considered unlikeable and that is part of this soup and you lose the benefit of the doubt with some in that case.  It's part of the reason why I'd like Schaffer propped up over Bruce.  As I mentioned before, he's known for his competence but also for being a super nice-good guy.

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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12 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Here's another person ranking GMs.  They only went up to 26 because the other GMs were newbees

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000927154/article/gm-power-rankings-howie-roseman-kevin-colbert-among-best

 

RANK

25

bruce-allen1.jpg

Bruce Allen, Redskins

 

 

The power structure in Washington has Allen at the top as president, with senior VP of player personnel Doug Williams and coach Jay Gruden also in the mix. The team's handling of Kirk Cousins' contract situation -- not to mention Allen's pronunciation of his quarterback's name -- raised a lot of eyebrows. Allen hired former GM Scot McCloughan in 2015, then fired him two years later on the eve of free agency. When he worked with Jon Gruden in Tampa, Allen and Gruden's enduring love of veterans kept the Bucs stuck in the NFL's middle class. That's where thisRedskins roster also resides.

RANK

25

bruce-allen1.jpg

Bruce Allen, Redskins

 

 

Hard to argue the merits of this ranking. Hopefully Winning this year will change it. But I think it also speaks to the FO overall and the reputation it has in the NFL among the professionals. Too much fail and not enough W's. I really think Jay Gruden tbh, has saved this team from tanking. 

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26 minutes ago, SWFLSkins said:

RANK

25

bruce-allen1.jpg

Bruce Allen, Redskins

 

 

Hard to argue the merits of this ranking. Hopefully Winning this year will change it. But I think it also speaks to the FO overall and the reputation it has in the NFL among the professionals. Too much fail and not enough W's. I really think Jay Gruden tbh, has saved this team from tanking. 

 

Even though his record in Tampa was checkered at best, when he replaced Vinny the vibe we got initially was he was smooth and professional. 

 

During the last few years though based on public comments -- the odd Kirk press release, the Kurt-Kirk stuff, winning off the field -- the recent comments where he unintentionally threw himself under the bus with the W-L record comment, Scot leaks, mocked nationally from some who worked with him as to the Kirk contract, reminders of the Prince of Darkness label from Tampa, etc. -- Bruce comes off to some as a guy who isn't at least publicly brimming with competence/class at least as to putting up a good pubic face for the franchise.  And I think some thought at a minimum Bruce would cover that department well -- when hired.  It started off that way but that hasn't happened of late IMO.  I think that has taken its toll on his reputation.

 

The ironic thing for me as to Bruce goes back to me to Mike Florio of all people (normally, I don't think much of Florio's insight)...back when Scot was canned he was convinced that Bruce would not put himself as head of personnel because in his mind why put your neck on the line when you can play to your strengths behind the scenes, instead and have job security to boot?  I agree with that from Bruce's stand point.  I do think the dude brings assets to the organization if he stays in his lane.  But if he wants to hold the buck stops with him position and step IMO out of his lane -- he deserves every bit of criticism and scrutiny he gets especially the self inflicted public kind.  And heck  the self inflected stuff happens in a small sample.  It makes me imagine what would happen if he were like most GMs and spoke publicly a lot more frequently?

 

Even if I ran with some of Bruce's defenders here with the variations of he's conservative in a good way, keeps Dan at bay, he listens to his scouts, did you see that 2014 draft, and his title is just a formality, etc.  Regardless, I hold him as the lead dance of making the Redskins a punch line again.  If he's ultra competent but just does a poor job of communicating that and putting a good face forward for the team -- that's still a big problem IMO.   

 

Apples to apples, Jerry Reese ended up making the Giants FO a punch line and they got rid of him.  And he wasn't even really making misstatements but they way they handled Beckham, Eli coupled with everything else made his removal necessary.  And the perception about the Giants FO just went a 180 to much better.  If you notice Gettleman is ranked 13th in that list.

 

Unlike Reese, I don't think Bruce needs to be canned.  I love the idea of just reassigning him with dealing with the business of the team especially the stadium.

 

 

 

  

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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16 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Even though his record in Tampa was checkered at best, when he replaced Vinny the vibe we got initially was he was smooth and professional. 

 

Great thoughts......

 

Unlike Reese, I don't think Bruce needs to be canned.  I love the idea of just reassigning him with dealing with the business of the team especially the stadium.

 

 

 

  

 

I loved the idea of reassigning him when Scot was hired, lol. I don't know if that happens, but it needs to. President of all things NON-football related. 

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So Bruce is the least trusted GM in the league, in other news water is wet. And Dan Snyder trolls a fan? The embarrassment keeps on coming but I will give Snyder a little credit that type of trolling is funny as hell

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23 minutes ago, bobandweave said:

The embarrassment keeps on coming but I will give Snyder a little credit that type of trolling is funny as hell

Sadly, I don't think he is trolling.  He probably actually thinks people want his autographed photo.

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1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Kimberley A. Martin Retweeted USA TODAY NFL

25 NFL agents responded to poll, which lists Bruce Allen as ‘least’ trusted decision-maker and the #Redskins as the 3rd-worst prepared team during contract negotiations

 

They need to provide context here for this to make any sense to me. There are many ways to read this. As for being the least trusted decision maker - that could very well be he makes commitments that he had Dan's approval on but then Dan backs out - or he could just be a lying POS. I would believe both and neither are good. But then again it could be he is just a hard negotiator and they do not like it. I would like to see examples - even if generic. As for being prepared, what does that even mean? And isn't that more on Sheaffer who everyone seems to like? Needs much more detail for context.

 

And asking agents does not give much credibility. I do not really trust agents myself. I have no personal experience but to me they all seem like hucksters. Probably not fair - but then again I am a fan so I do not have to be fair all the time!!  :rofl89:

 

I am not trying to make a case for BA as GM of the year - or even very good to be honest. Polls like these with out context or detail just do not mean much to me. The only thing it says it that BA is probably not a very good GM - we knew that already. 

 

I will point on one thing in his favor that may get overlooked. He does not renegotiate contracts, at least not that I have seen. He let's palyers paly out thier contracts. He let Garcon and Jackson both play out the unguaranted portion of their contracts and he is doing the same with Norman, Kerrigan and a few others.  Again, he still sucks - but not completely....  :cheers:

Edited by goskins10

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^^

 

1) Not surprised Allen ranks so low with agents...but wouldn't have guessed Elway would as well. Not really sure why that surprises me, though lol... it just does.

 

2) Autographed photo of Snyder lol...something tells me he didn't personally send out a photo to a fan. And probably ever saw the fan's letter. Mail from fans is most likely screened and only ones deemed worth his time get forwarded on to him.

 

Reminds me a bit of this time in college when two friends and I ordered one night from a local restaurant like we always did. We'd all order subs for delivery, and every time Wes (one of my two friends) would hate getting the pickle on the side that comes with every sub. I mean, hated it. Like getting a dead slug with your sandwich or something.  Anyway, this night Wes is ordering for all three of us on the phone, and he says "Make sure one of the sandwiches has NO PICKLE...Just keep it out of the bag, please. Thanks." When the food arrives, Wes starts looking into each bag to see which one is his.

 

Opens the first bag - says "pickle" and puts the bag aside.

Opens the second bag - says "pickle" and puts that bag aside as well.

Opens the third bag - says "this one has two pickles!!"...we all crack up.

 

To this day never figured out if someone did that on purpose or if the communication broke down between the person taking the order and the person putting the order together for delivery lol...either way, was funny as hell. The Snyder pic is the same way to me lol...highly doubt Snyder himself did it, probably either some miscommunication mistake (like the guy's name and address ended up on a list of fans who get the stamped-autograph photo of Snyder) or some underling who decided on his own to troll the guy. Still funny lol....

Edited by Califan007
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14 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

They need to provide contect here for this to make any sense to me. There are many ways to read this. As for being the least trusted decision maker - that could very well be he makes commitments that he had Dan's approval on but then Dan backs out - or he could just be a lying POS. I would believe both and neither are good. But then again it could be he is just a hard negotiator and they do not like it. I would like to see examples - even if generic. As for being prepared, what does that even mean? And isn't that more on Sheaffer who everyone seems to like? Needs much more detail for context.

 

And asking agents does not give much credibility. I do not really trust agents myself. I have no personal experience but to me they all seem like hucksters. Probably not fair - but then again I am a fan so I do not have to be fair all the time!!  :rofl89:

 

I am not trying to make a case for BA as GM of the year - or even very good to be honest. Polls like these with out context or detail just do not mean much to me. The only thing it says it that BA is probably not a very good GM - we knew that already.

4

 

Yeah, I wondered the same thing but didn't feel like going into it...I guessed what the responses would be like lol. And asking agents who the best GMs are might be a bit like asking used car salesmen who the best customers have been lol...

 

"Unprepared" makes it sound like Allen shows up late to agent meetings looking disheveled, holding a bunch of loose papers in his hands that are falling to the ground as he walks to his desk. "Yeah, hi...sorry, running a bit late this afternoon...give me a second...Ok, so....what...what's your client's name again? Schwarz? Swaim? Shroeder?...Something like that, right?...How much is he looking for?...Huh? You sent me an email this morning with the details?...Hold on, let me look...sorry, still can't figure out how to view my email on my phone....let's see....spam....spam...enlarge your penis....Ah, ok, I see it now....Hmm....Is that in millions?..."

Edited by Califan007
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Why are the packers so high on that list? They don't participate in free agency so they don't really talk to agents other than their own. That's a lot different than the whole "i'm going to see what other teams think of this guy and try to place a competitive value that will make him come to us".

 

What's also interesting is that the Bengals are the number one for worse because they do a lot of signing FAs. So is that saying that agents still don't like them? Not sure I understand that and why.

 

I'd be curious to know what the questions were. Was it "rate the gms in terms of how much you trust them" or was it a set of questions by which they determined a trust factor? And then how much weight did each agent get? Did agents with more clients get more weight?

 

And how much of this was related to simple public perception?

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Hmmm maybe we can get a poll similar to  this one for owners and than Snyder and Allen can **** can each other?

Is that true, Allen being reduced to stadium control what ever garbage?.. time to completely clean house Snyder..c'mon man!!

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Well hmmm .. hmmm ... these Polls iare generally mid offseason guff but I kind of accept Allen might be on some thin ground here an this an this is one of those niggling PR stings that might be enough to prompt a change at the top ? 

 

Add in that Richmond wants financial aid to host training camp because the deal was so wretched in the first place ...

 

I think at this point Bruce kind of has to hit the draft out the park and even then that might not save him from being ‘reassigned’ (which to me sounds like he might be changing his name to Brenda and comming into the office in a skirt and heals) - but if I was Dan I really would not want bruce negotiating anything because it is likely the new stadium will be built in a swamp . 

 

As as a total aside ... who goes to the paper to complain or even comment about getting a signed picture of Dan Snyder ... I know it is odd ... but kind of the thing you chuckle about and put to one side and get on with your day - not get on the phone to the local media - on another note how slow a day is it in the WP office to even run with such a story ? 

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2 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

And how much of this was related to simple public perception?

 

 

Had not thought of that...that's a valid point.

 

How much was "I've dealt with this GM several times"...and how much was "Never dealt with him but from the stories I've read about him...."?

 

Also, wonder why there are no female GMs? Is it simply because most GMs have a resume of being a scout for years first? Are there any female scouts? Just wondered because I started imagining how agents would take to having to deal with a female GM....if they would respect her as much as her male counterparts and if her perceived attractiveness would play any role in how much agents liked dealing with her...

 

 

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38 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Sadly, I don't think he is trolling.  He probably actually thinks people want his autographed photo.

It's actually hysterical either way, for different reasons. 

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12 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

Had not thought of that...that's a valid point.

 

How much was "I've dealt with this GM several times"...and how much was "Never dealt with him but from the stories I've read about him...."?

 

I doubt they are basing their opinions on what they've read about him.  These guys talk to each other.  If anything, it's about what they've heard from their peers.

 

Either way it's another bad look for Brucey and the team, even Cooley just admitted that on air while also saying he "feels kinda bad for Bruce because I like the dude".

 

Sure this could just be another mean spirited, conspiracy by the media to taint the good name of the Washington Redskins.  Or Bruce could really be the douche many of us have suspected he is. 

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If nothing else, this shows that the perception that Snyder knew was going around about the team when he hired Scot is still there, if not moreso. He (supposedly) basically came very humbly to Scot and said he was embarrassed. These type of reports coming out doesn't do anything to nullify that.

 

Its my opionion though that these things come out and are based more om perception than reality and if the team can win more consistently these things will be reduced. I don't like defending Bruce because I don't know him as a man and its not my place to "trust" him. That's between coaches, gms, agents, players, etc. But when I see us doing it the Ron Wolf style, thats what I care about. I think thats how we turn this place around, from bad to mediocre and from mediocre to good and from good to great.

 

If we do let go of Bruce, I hope whoever the next guy is big on the draft because that's the historic way teams have won. FA is still a 20 year experiment and its gone from being something to avoid at almost all costs, to something that the smarter heads (may have) figured out, but building through the draft is still working. Hopefully we still have 10 picks a year, and sign 10 UDFAs and give them opportunities to make the team and coach them up to become our starters of the future.

6 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

I doubt they are basing their opinions on what they've read about him.  These guys talk to each other.  If anything, it's about what they've heard from their peers.

 

But how much is based on their experiences vs "Bruce did my boy wrong so I don't like Bruce"

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