LadySkinsFan Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 Gaming elections, that's what Republicans do best. They prove over and over that they can't govern effectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 1 minute ago, techboy said: They're going to determine the balance of power in the Virginia House of Delegates by drawing a name from a hat. Crazy. Best three of five? Come on, they could at least go to paper, rock, and scissors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 14 minutes ago, techboy said: First, you DID talk about forced sterilization... see above. Second, you did make a general statement, but it is flatly wrong. You stated (again, above) that the Nazis had no thought of actual societal value. They absolutely did... They saw the physically and mentally disabled (even just the stupid) as a drain on society, and argued that society would benefit as a whole by removal of these undesirables, both by flat out killing them and by forced sterilization. Finally, the blowback you're getting is also because your comments, and other cracks like "bleach in the gene pool", are often used as dog whistling for more explicit practices. That might not be how you mean it, but that is how it comes off. First, I hadn't brought it up. I responded to someone else who brought it up. Second, I was trying to not give credit to what the Nazi's did. And the more I look at it, the more the comparison seems off base. I started this with people who can't afford kids shouldn't have kids. I didn't suggest sterilizing the disabled. That is statements trying to be forced on me. Finally, I do agree that we could probably use some "bleach in the gene pool". I can think of about 30% of the population (re: Trumps approval rating) that proves that. You call it dog whistling. I call that you trying to attribute something to me that I haven't said. 12 minutes ago, visionary said: This is getting pretty off topic.... Maybe. I see the results of the election as proof that some people should be encouraged to not breed. Sure, a D won in AL but almost 50% of the population that voted chose a child molestor instead. I thinking looking at why that is and how to fix it is worthy. 7 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said: Gaming elections, that's what Republicans do best. They prove over and over that they can't govern effectively. How did they game it? Honestly asking, I haven't been following it that closely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 50 minutes ago, techboy said: Also, Predicto and Steve are right too... Morality aside, you don't want to live in a society with a repressed underclass. There aren't any guillotines in this country, but I'm sure the plans are on the internet. It's not just class conflict that we should fear, there are so many terrible consequences to demographic crisis and depopulation. You can completely remove class from the equation and you're still looking at an apocalyptic future for a society. Out of control depopulation is just as destabilizing and catastrophic as out of control population growth. Our society and economy depend on the model of a household with a worker reproducing at a fertility rate of 2 or greater or else the area MUST be supplemented with immigration. We MUST have this scale to keep our social system working because our institutions and infrastructure are built to serve this scale. When we don't have this, or when a community suffers from severe emigration, the institutions and the society itself collapse. You can see it playing out in the Rust Belt in America, where rampant crime, instability, and poverty are the result of the loss of economic dynamism and depopulation. The first step is that your work force shrinks and your industries lose to outside competition and collapse. Your education system fails without a tax base to pay for it and a generation of children to attend it. Healthcare and cost of living become impossibly expensive. The dynamic individuals flee. The economy contracts and becomes drastically simpler until eventually people are reduced to subsistence food production and areas of low productivity are abandoned. Institutions designed to provide universal security like the criminal justice system crumble. Angry bachelor men untethered by the impetus to provide for families and offspring become violent and predatory. Banditry becomes an widescale. And finally, settlements are abandoned. We must have a universal fertility rate of at least 2 or else we need to be ready and willing to accept massive immigration from Africa, Central America, and the Middle East to prop up our society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killerbee99 Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 So basically bend over America, and take it real good... At this point don't really care.. We deserve what we get as a nation.... Whatever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 Gaming elections 1. Voter suppression 2. Gerrymandering 3. Lying 4. Southern Strategy 5. And most importantly, a foreign government interfered in our election. 6. No campaign finance reform to keep out the billionaires who just got paid back. Those are a few. Remember, Clinton won the popular vote, Trump won swing states in Electoral College by about 55,000 votes. That's gaming the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 At this point when I look at all the problems facing our nation currently and in the future, depopulation due to poor people not being able to afford to responsibly have children isn't on the list of things I am concerned about. There is nothing to point to this becoming a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 21 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said: How did they game it? Honestly asking, I haven't been following it that closely. Total votes cast for Democrats in this Virginia House Election - 1,306,384 Total votes case for Republicans in this Virginia House Election - 1,075,206 However, due to gerrymandering, the GOP has half the seats - and if it wins the coin toss, it will have a majority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 1 minute ago, LadySkinsFan said: Gaming elections 1. Voter suppression 2. Gerrymandering 3. Lying 4. Southern Strategy Those are a few. Remember, Clinton won the popular vote, Trump won swing states in Electoral College by about 55,000 votes. That's gaming the system. Gotcha. I thought you meant they did something shady with the votes to make it equal a tie. Just now, Predicto said: Total votes cast for Democrats in this Virginia House Election - 1,306,384 Total votes case for Republicans in this Virginia House Election - 1,075,206 However, due to gerrymandering, the GOP has half the seats - and if it wins the coin toss, it will have a majority. Yea I thought she was saying something recently shady that made it become a tie. I agree their long term game plan over the last 40 or whatever years has been shady. I just thought she meant something recent in particular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 1 minute ago, TheGreatBuzz said: Gotcha. I thought you meant they did something shady with the votes to make it equal a tie. Voter suppression is pretty shady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 5 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said: At this point when I look at all the problems facing our nation currently and in the future, depopulation due to poor people not being able to afford to responsibly have children isn't on the list of things I am concerned about. There is nothing to point to this becoming a problem. Poor people not being able to raise the children they have is a real problem. Your effort to continually recharacterize the question is not very compelling at this point in the conversation. 4 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said: Gotcha. I thought you meant they did something shady with the votes to make it equal a tie. Oh, they do that too. Voter supression is real. So is simple cheating. There is a reason that in this recount, the GOP's candidate had an 80 vote lead that suddenly evaporated into a tie vote. Look at who was counting the votes the first time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 Not sure about details, but I think they found one vote that was thrown out yesterday and took it to the judges who accepted it, getting the tie. Anyone else have any details on why just this one vote was brought back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, Predicto said: Poor people not being able to raise the children they have is a real problem. Your effort to continually recharacterize the question is not very compelling at this point in the conversation. You are correct, it is a real problem. And it needs to be addressed. Instead, the GOP will continue to hose them over. From this, you get no argument from me. However, people knowing they are not able to raise children but choose to have a child, or more children, is also an issue. It is not an either/or situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 1 hour ago, techboy said: They're going to determine the balance of power in the Virginia House of Delegates by drawing a name from a hat. Crazy. Not as crazy as needing three judges to determine who you voted for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Burgold said: Best three of five? Come on, they could at least go to paper, rock, and scissors. I vote for a duel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 50 minutes ago, Predicto said: Total votes cast for Democrats in this Virginia House Election - 1,306,384 Total votes case for Republicans in this Virginia House Election - 1,075,206 However, due to gerrymandering, the GOP has half the seats - and if it wins the coin toss, it will have a majority. How do the numbers change if you remove the minority majority districts? the court makes you gerrymander Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 Just now, Larry said: I vote for a duel. Let's make it interesting. One of the pistols gets loaded with blanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 2 hours ago, twa said: How do the numbers change if you remove the minority majority districts? the court makes you gerrymander No it doesn't. Majority minority districts was a way that the Court in the 1960s found appropriate to combat the then common practice of cracking, i.e., gerrymandering to completely disenfranchise black voters by diluting their voting strength in to as many districts as possible. Majority minority districts are not required if you aren't doing partisan gerrymandering, but they are nice cover for partisan gerrymandering if you are doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Just now, Predicto said: . Majority minority districts are not required if you aren't doing partisan gerrymandering say what? Don't you mean racial gerrymandering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfitzo53 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 I know I'm veering back off topic here, but I just want to throw one more idea @TheGreatBuzz. At least one study has shown, based on almost a millennium of data from England, that wealth is more hereditary than height. That is, the amount of money you have is more closely tied to who your parents are than one of the most basic physical characteristics of your body. That's wild, especially if it can be supported by further research. It has crucial implications when you start talking about things like whose fault it is that so-and-so doesn't have money to raise kids, particularly when that society as a whole has more than enough money to provide for lots of healthy families, but chooses to allow that wealth to be distributed wildly inequitably. Granted, this is in England, but the data we have show that the United States is actually not much better than England in terms of social mobility, and lags behind areas like Scandinavia that are known for more progressive policies and less income inequality. (To take it even further, social mobility is significantly correlated with income equality, and there is an ever growing body of research that supports this.) Anyway, all of this income equality stuff segues right back into elections and demographics and stuff, so there we go, back on topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 1 hour ago, twa said: say what? Don't you mean racial gerrymandering. yes I misspoke Although in much of the South, the two are pretty much the same thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Just now, Predicto said: yes I misspoke Although in much of the South, the two are pretty much the same thing Well I agree the Dems see minorities as their property Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulSkin Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 17 hours ago, Larry said: I vote for a duel. 17 hours ago, Burgold said: Let's make it interesting. One of the pistols gets loaded with blanks. Jousting is the obvious solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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