Harvey Weinstein, Fired Amongst Sexual Harassment Allegations

[Fresh8686]

10 minutes ago, Destino said:

CK is gross and I feel terrible the women he creeped out with his nasty propositions in the workplace.  I particularly feel bad for his daughters as well.  Imagine going to school as teenagers when your father is the front page story for pulling his junk out in front of everyone.  That would be difficult, to say the least.  

 

I do have to ask though, if an acquaintance at a sort of party asks you to watch them masturbate and you not only fail to decline but stay for the whole "show" before leaving, are you a victim or a participant?  

Are you considering in your assessment the power dynamic at play and with that said the possible repercussions that come from leaving and upsetting the perv who is in a position of power, plus the biological freeze response that can be induced in such high stress, high surprise situations (or less intensely how such ****tails of stress and surprise can lead to a greater chance of compliance from the victim)?

We gotta make the context apples to apples, before we attempt to answer such a question and seriously consider all the factors that may be at play.

[No Excuses]

All of these stories have one common thread: the enablers. 

 

Louis CK's enabler is a guy who is hugely influential in the comedy circle and represents big shots like Kevin Hart, Aziz Ansari and Amy Poehler. 

 

This is why women are reluctant about coming out. You have really powerful people covering for the predators.

Edited November 9, 2017 by No Excuses

[Destino]

1 hour ago, Fresh8686 said:

Are you considering in your assessment the power dynamic at play and with that said the possible repercussions that come from leaving and upsetting the perv who is in a position of power, plus the biological freeze response that can be induced in such high stress, high surprise situations (or less intensely how such ****tails of stress and surprise can lead to a greater chance of compliance from the victim)?

We gotta make the context apples to apples, before we attempt to answer such a question and seriously consider all the factors that may be at play.

 

If we accept all the factors you listed as applicable to this situation, then the women in this situation are incapable of consent.  I'd like to think circumstances that render a pair of adults helpless be a bit more direct. 

 

[Destino]

2 minutes ago, No Excuses said:

All of these stories have one common thread: the enablers. 

 

Louis CK's enabler is a guy who is hugely influential in the comedy circle and represents big shots like Kevin Hart, Aziz Ansari and Amy Poehler. 

 

This is why women are reluctant about coming out. You have really powerful people covering for the predators.

And plain old money.  The reason all of these people were enabled or assisted is because there was a lot of money on the line.  Louis CK's manager/agent/whatever stands to lose a great deal of money if Creepy Louis suddenly becomes a pariah.  It's really no surprise that people are willing to do some pretty awful things when money is involved.  The scale of all of this is surprising though.  With so many people involved it's shocking that they managed to keep so many allegations quiet. 

[TradeTheBeal!]

Whatever you put out there is gonna come back to ya, folks.  CK deserves a thorough public shaming, perhaps more.

 

That said, I'd comfortably estimate that 95% of active adults, Men/Women/etc., are on point with their sexual behavior 95% of the time.  In American society anyway.  I will firmly resist the temptation to engage in a panic every time the 24 hr news cycle tells me about a famous dude who took out his junk at a party in 2003.

[Fresh8686]

1 hour ago, Destino said:

 

If we accept all the factors you listed as applicable to this situation, then the women in this situation are incapable of consent.  I'd like to think circumstances that render a pair of adults helpless be a bit more direct. 

 

 

I'd say it's more that the context of the situation makes consent untenable rather than the individual is incapable of consent due to some fault or weakness of their own. 

 

Do you disagree that those factors are applicable? Do you have first or second hand, in-depth experience with situations where sexual overtures are made while a power imbalance is present? I have a wife who has survived sexual molestation and rape and we occasionally work to help girls who have also dealt with the same, heal and regain themselves. An integral part of that is overcoming the feelings that arise from the self-castigation of "I should have" I should have pushed him away, I should have ran, or said no more forcefully then I did, etc.

 

And overcoming that is often aided by separating the fantasy of how we think we would have acted in that situation with the reality of the factors and pressures at play during the event and how the human nervous system handles it or doesn't. 

 

Im not implying you're victim blaming by the way. But a lot of times an innacurate idea of how things go down paired with an over-inflated sense of how a person would personally handle it can be a slippery slope towards victim blaming... ie implying they were weak or incapable or maybe even facetious in their account of why they didn't stop or remove themselves from the situation. 

 

 

[visionary]

 

[visionary]

 

 

 

 

Ellen Page on Bret Ratner

https://twitter.com/JessicaValenti/status/929050511369736192

 

Edited November 10, 2017 by visionary

[Springfield]

Sounds remorseful.

[TradeTheBeal!]

Welp, that's talking the talk right there.  Time to walk the walk.

[visionary]

 

[Llevron]

Dont care if he admitted to it, personally. I mean, good on him I guess for yanking it in front of a few chicks and then telling the truth about it. But he still had to yank it in front of some chicks to start it. I hope he can face some legal repercussions. 

 

 

[visionary]

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

2 minutes ago, Llevron said:

Dont care if he admitted to it, personally. I mean, good on him I guess for yanking it in front of a few chicks and then telling the truth about it. But he still had to yank it in front of some chicks to start it. I hope he can face some legal repercussions. 

 

 

 

I hear where you're coming from but it's....hard to say good, nice, etc, but i can't think of a good term....to see someone actually admit to it and face it.  This is what someone should do when they're guilty of something.  Fess up.  Spacey hides behind a chicken**** statement and outing himself as gay.  Weinstein, IIRC, goes overseas for "treatment" and isn't seen or heard from.  A guy like Roy Moore denies, denies, denies....if there's anything to learn from this, aside from how not to be a pervert, it's how to admit when you've done something wrong.

 

Figures that the comedian, the guy who's not adopting a persona (Spacey) or the guy that doesn't have any true talent (Weinstein) or the person who relies on pandering to others to keep a job (Moore) and gets up and speaks for an hour at a time, revealing himself (pun intended) to crowds on a nightly basis, drawing on his own life experiences, is the one to admit to his transgressions.

[Llevron]

You have a point, for sure. I just hope he pays the consequences of his actions. If he pays his debt to society for being a pervert im more than happy to forgive him and then give him credit for doing what needed to be done. 

 

Its just like the Micheal Vick thing. I understand what he did was wrong. He payed the price so I cant be mad at that anymore. 

[ixcuincle]

 

[visionary]

 

 

 

 

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

The fact that this happens in show biz is the same reason that a team doctor can abuse the entire US Gymnastics Team for 30 years and get away with it.

 

There is a power dynamic, but the victims in these cases are completely disposable as well.

 

In both cases, you are talking about very young or relatively young women/children who are essentially independent contractors in the most competitive fields imaginable. I have a few friends in show biz. A low level writing job on something like The Chris Rock Show can literally change your entire life. That first credit gets you on the train, and that train can end with millions of dollars and awards and everything else. The alternative is making youtube videos and pumping out spec scripts for Disney Channel sitcoms.

 

If you lose that first gig, your career can be over at 25. Same with athletes. You cause a problem for the freaking Karolyis (of all people on Earth) and you can go back to competing in state competitions in Michigan for nice ribbons. There are 1,000 girls who will murder someone for your spot.

 

If anything, Louis CK was more diabolical than Weinstein, because - and I'm an attorney - I'm not sure if what he did is actionable in any way. It seems like he always got some kind of half-assed consent and never physically touched anyone.

[visionary]

 

 

 

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

19 hours ago, Fresh8686 said:

 

I'd say it's more that the context of the situation makes consent untenable rather than the individual is incapable of consent due to some fault or weakness of their own. 

 

Do you disagree that those factors are applicable? Do you have first or second hand, in-depth experience with situations where sexual overtures are made while a power imbalance is present? I have a wife who has survived sexual molestation and rape and we occasionally work to help girls who have also dealt with the same, heal and regain themselves. An integral part of that is overcoming the feelings that arise from the self-castigation of "I should have" I should have pushed him away, I should have ran, or said no more forcefully then I did, etc.

 

And overcoming that is often aided by separating the fantasy of how we think we would have acted in that situation with the reality of the factors and pressures at play during the event and how the human nervous system handles it or doesn't. 

 

Im not implying you're victim blaming by the way. But a lot of times an innacurate idea of how things go down paired with an over-inflated sense of how a person would personally handle it can be a slippery slope towards victim blaming... ie implying they were weak or incapable or maybe even facetious in their account of why they didn't stop or remove themselves from the situation. 

 

 

 

I know two women who were molested and both seem to carry the same shame of "not fighting." I think it creates this thing in the brain of "Well, I never said stop so I must have secretly wanted it." Never mind that it's a 12 year old girl waking up with a 30 year old man on top of them.

[Destino]

1 hour ago, Llevron said:

Dont care if he admitted to it, personally. I mean, good on him I guess for yanking it in front of a few chicks and then telling the truth about it. But he still had to yank it in front of some chicks to start it. I hope he can face some legal repercussions. 

 

 

He admitted it only when he was forced to do so, he didn't care about the rumors or that fact that these women he harassed liked it or not.  I'm betting his PR team and lawyers advised him that he could and worked on the wording.  Consider what he's actually admitted to doing and how he worded it.  He was intentionally vulgar, he repeatedly asserts that these women admired him (an entirely irrelevant bit of self praise), and made certain to point out that he always asked permission first which covers his ass.  He's also apparently just as remorseful for negatively impacting the people he's worked with and his poor manager that helped cover it up. 

 

Maybe people want to like him, or we're all just desperate to see someone admit it, but that apology is super creepy in my opinion. 

[visionary]

 

[Elessar78]

12 minutes ago, Destino said:

He admitted it only when he was forced to do so, he didn't care about the rumors or that fact that these women he harassed liked it or not.  I'm betting his PR team and lawyers advised him that he could and worked on the wording.  Consider what he's actually admitted to doing and how he worded it.  He was intentionally vulgar, he repeatedly asserts that these women admired him (an entirely irrelevant bit of self praise), and made certain to point out that he always asked permission first which covers his ass.  He's also apparently just as remorseful for negatively impacting the people he's worked with and his poor manager that helped cover it up. 

 

Maybe people want to like him, or we're all just desperate to see someone admit it, but that apology is super creepy in my opinion. 

I respect him for making that move. Note reads sincere—hopefully he can walk the walk, like someone else said. As I read it, he mentions asking permission like he thought it would make it okay. He's in a damned if you do, damned if you don't position but I'm glad he took this step. 

[Dan T.]

Christ.  Add Rolling Stone's Jann Wenner to the list:

 

Writer Alleges Rolling Stone Founder Jann Wenner Offered Him Work in Exchange for Sex

 

Writer Ben Ryan has accused Rolling Stone founder Jann Wenner of sexual harassment.

 

Ryan told BuzzFeed News that Wenner offered him a career advancement in exchange for sex during a meeting in 2005.

 

Wenner acknowledged the encounter in a statement to Variety. “I met Ben 12 years ago, and I attempted to have a sexual liaison with him. He turned me down, which I respected. I had no intention of making him feel uncomfortable. His piece was subsequently published in any case; no work was promised and no work was lost. I have never and would never make an offer of this kind.”

 

The two had a meeting at Wenner’s townhouse. Ryan claims Wenner made him a drink and sat with him on a couch before quickly making a move on him. Wenner had been out as gay for 10 years at that point, Ryan said.

 

“I had Jann Wenner’s tongue in my mouth,” Ryan said. “I went along for a second, but then said something to the effect of, ‘Oh please, I’m not that kind of girl.'”

 

When Ryan tried to leave, Wenner allegedly said he would offer him a writing contract if he stayed.

 

“I think there was that moment where it’s like time stood still, and you’re imagining how this could be the answer to all my struggles. All I would have to do is this one thing,” Ryan said. “But that’s not me. I would never do that.”

 

Ryan’s boyfriend at the time, James Harris, confirmed Ryan’s account of the incident, as did three other people Ryan said he told in subsequent years.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/writer-alleges-rolling-stone-founder-181517545.html

 

https://www.buzzfeed.com/maryanngeorgantopoulos/jann-wenner?utm_term=.rlYoXjDXp#.wn5z14K19

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

27 minutes ago, Elessar78 said:

I respect him for making that move. Note reads sincere—hopefully he can walk the walk, like someone else said. As I read it, he mentions asking permission like he thought it would make it okay. He's in a damned if you do, damned if you don't position but I'm glad he took this step. 

The problem with his apology is twofold.

 

1. He's a great writer so anything he writes will read well.

2. He flat-out denied these accusations in a print interview less than a month ago.

 

More than just a reckoning for celebrities, this is a reckoning for our relationships with celebrities.

 

I like Louis CK and want him to produce more stuff I like. I don't particularly like Bryan Singer or Charlie Sheen or even Kevin Spacey at this point. And I certainly don't like Roy Moore.

 

So, I don't know how I'll feel about the Louis CK comeback tour in 2019. I don't think he necessarily deserves to lose his career, but - at the same time - I don't think these five people are the end of it. And I would be screaming at the comeback tour of someone I don't like.