Is There a 2017 Injury Update Thread? If Not, Voila! Now We Have One

[kleese]

1 hour ago, NewCliche21 said:

Unfortunately sounds like, from what's being reported on the ongoing presser, that we are ****ed at offensive line.  Ty isn't back, Trent could be "rested" (I'm guessing jump start on surgery/IR) when Ty is back, and they don't have enough players to do 11 on 11 in practice.

Sigh.  I hope 2018 is better.

 

That news on Scherff is good, or at least a lot better than bad. I doubt Trent goes to IR this year unless we are out of it or he suffers a significant setback. I do think they might "rest" him when Nsheke is back just to give him a break and maybe allow it to calm down a bit. Sounds like other than Trent, the other OL should be more or less OK (albeit sore I'm sure but that's the nature of the NFL). My immediate concern would be if Scherff can't play this week, Ty is still out, and Trent and Moses are hobbling and iffy. My God.

[NewCliche21]

3 hours ago, kleese said:

 

That news on Scherff is good, or at least a lot better than bad. I doubt Trent goes to IR this year unless we are out of it or he suffers a significant setback. I do think they might "rest" him when Nsheke is back just to give him a break and maybe allow it to calm down a bit. Sounds like other than Trent, the other OL should be more or less OK (albeit sore I'm sure but that's the nature of the NFL). My immediate concern would be if Scherff can't play this week, Ty is still out, and Trent and Moses are hobbling and iffy. My God.

 

I don't know with Trent.  Jay seemed to be saying stuff publicly that you keep behind the scenes, like having to judge his longterm health.  We don't need RG71.  I really feel like 2017 just isn't the year schedule or injury wise.  Let's make a real run for 2018 without losing our most important lineman for half of it by making him play through a surgery-requiring injury.  And that's the thing, too.  It needs surgery which has a months-long recovery.  That part isn't avoidable, and it can only get worse.

[kleese]

1 hour ago, NewCliche21 said:

 

I don't know with Trent.  Jay seemed to be saying stuff publicly that you keep behind the scenes, like having to judge his longterm health.  We don't need RG71.  I really feel like 2017 just isn't the year schedule or injury wise.  Let's make a real run for 2018 without losing our most important lineman for half of it by making him play through a surgery-requiring injury.  And that's the thing, too.  It needs surgery which has a months-long recovery.  That part isn't avoidable, and it can only get worse.

 

You can't pick the year. It often picks you. And you never know when it all falls apart for an individual or team. I don't know jack squat about the medical specifics of Trent's injury, but in his statement from last week he said the damage is done, it can't really get worse because it will require surgery regardless. He will have a long rehab. Even if he waits until February though he should be ready by next year. So it sounds like they just try to get him through week to week. Obviously, the guy is in pain and I am sure playing in an NFL game doesn't help. He's also an emotional leader of the team so I like the idea of having him around. If he is so jacked up currently that he needs a week or two off to allow it calm down a bit, I think that's the route they should go. If the team is still in the race later in the year, I imagine he will want to keep pushing through.

[NewCliche21]

10 hours ago, kleese said:

 

You can't pick the year. It often picks you. And you never know when it all falls apart for an individual or team. I don't know jack squat about the medical specifics of Trent's injury, but in his statement from last week he said the damage is done, it can't really get worse because it will require surgery regardless. He will have a long rehab. Even if he waits until February though he should be ready by next year. So it sounds like they just try to get him through week to week. Obviously, the guy is in pain and I am sure playing in an NFL game doesn't help. He's also an emotional leader of the team so I like the idea of having him around. If he is so jacked up currently that he needs a week or two off to allow it calm down a bit, I think that's the route they should go. If the team is still in the race later in the year, I imagine he will want to keep pushing through.

 

Yeah, but you're kind of playing both sides of the coin here.  You don't know about the condition but you do know the recovery time?  Nah, the sooner it's done the more of a cushion we have in case there's any sort of setback. Trent talking about pain takes a LOT.  He pulled himself out of the game on our second-to-last drive; that's not what Trent Williams does.  This isn't a hangnail.

Him wanting to keep pushing through is irrelevant.  So did Griffin.  So do a lot of players who get devastating injuries.  Your body doesn't tell you it's in pain for ****s and giggles; it's a literal warning system.  If Trent Williams is in so much pain that WE know about it, then this isn't the year and there's no reason to stop it from becoming next year if we can shut him down earlier. This isn't a joke when you're talking about the best player on your team.

 

Five to six month recovery:  https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/football-insider/wp/2017/10/21/redskins-trent-williams-trying-to-delay-necessary-knee-surgery-until-after-season/?utm_term=.42a00145a435&tid=a_inl

 

Quote

“I’m going to try and do it as long as possible,” Williams said. “Hopefully, I can get through to January. If not, then I know I tried.”

 

Williams, a five-time Pro Bowler, tweaked an injury that has already limited the athletic lineman’s mobility. He has often played through injuries throughout his eight-year career, but Williams described this as the most difficult he’s gone through. He said he’s unable to change directions in the trenches and lacks the base to which he’s accustomed as he plays one of the most difficult positions in the game.

“I can’t really perform like I want to or how I feel I’m capable of,” Williams said. “So I’m not sure if I’m hurting the team by trying to be out there, or doing myself any justice, or doing my team any justice. I just have to go back and evaluate and take the next step.”

 

[kleese]

Right it's 5-6 months, so if he waits until the end of the season he's still back in time for 2018. Doing it now gives him a jumpstart on that, but it likely doesn't effect his status for next year either way. When he and the trainers say no further damage can be done in terms of making it worse or a longer recovery, I will just take their word for it. I think going week to week with Trent makes sense. If he is too ginger to go this week, then you sit him out. If a week from today it isn't barking as loud and he can power through, then he plays. Rinse and repeat until end of year. 

[wilco_holland]

I'm not huge fan of how we deal with Trent. I'm just worried that it might get worse. I rather go for long term health with him. But I must be honest. I have played injured many times. Its hard to accept that you should not play. 

 

I know we have a serious amazing doctor working for our team but this is the same team that put a certain injured QB on the field against Seattle...that pretty much ended his career. 

[method man]

Why dont they keep Scherff active Sunday but leave him on the bench? Start Roullier and move Long to guard. If this combo struggles, bring Scherff in

 

Luckily, for us, the Cowboys don’t have a DL of killers

[Taylorcooley1]

Can someone possibly post a clip of that pos iggle d lineman taking Scherff out at the knee..Scherff was our most solid healthiest player and so help me ****ing god I HOPE YOUR READING THIS EAGLES FANS!!!..if it causes long term damage(despite getting healthy enough to play)that causes multiple surgeries down the road I WILL PISS AND **** AND SPIT ON YOUR ****ING GRAVE!!...

1 hour ago, wilco_holland said:

I'm not huge fan of how we deal with Trent. I'm just worried that it might get worse. I rather go for long term health with him. But I must be honest. I have played injured many times. Its hard to accept that you should not play. 

 

I know we have a serious amazing doctor working for our team but this is the same team that put a certain injured QB on the field against Seattle...that pretty much ended his career. 

Good call wilco....I like this post...if ty is that close to coming back I say throw him in there if he holds his own and does good like we have seen than put tw on ir and get the surgery out of the way..

[Voice_of_Reason]

I'm going to get absolutely crushed for this, and this is the worst possible week to say this, but I think the team needs to take the long-view at the season, and not game-by-game.

 

Here's the schedule:

 

Dallas

@ Seattle

Minn

@Saints

NYG (Short week, Thanksgiving night)

@Cowboys (1 week rest, also Thursday night)

@Charger (long week)

Cardinals

Broncos

@Giants

 

You've got to get to 10 wins to get into the playoff. The division is out of reach.  You're 3-3 now.  

 

I'd rest everybody that you need to rest, Williams, Sherff, Long, Moses, Norman and just see what happens against Dallas.  And if you're resting 4/5ths of your starting OL, I'd consider sitting Kirk. I probably wouldn't.  But I would STRONGLY consider it. I KNOW it's a division game, and I KNOW it's Dallas.  

 

However, if you rush everybody back to play Dallas, and lose a couple guys for several weeks or the season because of it, you haven't helped anything. And you probably are going to lose anyway if you have no OL.  

 

If you have some health, and you are a playoff team, you should beat the NYG twice, the Cardinals.  and Chargers.  That gets you to 7 wins.  You are going to have to split with Dallas to make the playoffs.  Doesn't matter where or how.  If you punt this game, you HAVE to win in Dallas.  

 

Then you've got to win 2 of Seattle, Minn, Saints or Broncos.  

 

If it means punting on this game for the greater good because of injuries, I'd do it.  It puts a ton of pressure on you to play well down the road, and reduces your margin of error to have a bad game against a bad team.  

 

But they are not playing with a full deck right now, and they have to be creative on how they might be able to get out of this jam. And if honestly they have no OL, and resting them for a week might get guys healthy enough for the stretch, I'd consider going full boar on it, and not just do it 50/50.

 

 

 

 

[kleese]

@Voice_of_Reason, believe it or not, I kinda sorta agree with you on this  

 

I don't necessarily think we need 10 wins though; I think 9 could cut it-- as a matter of fact, I'll go on the record and say at least one WC team in the NFC is 9-7. But that would make your suggestion even more valid. Now, as a staff, you can't punt NFL games mid-season without massive cause. And if a guy like Moses and Long are basically OK to go just a little sore, I don't think you can sit them just because. Where I would agree is if we have guys like Trent and Scherff and Norman who are VERY iffy health-wise and would be really pushing it to play-- this would be a week where you just let them sit and think greater good for the season. Maybe we lose, but maybe then we have more of a full deck headed to Seattle (a game everyone will pick us to lose, but a game I see as very winnable).

[NewCliche21]

15 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I'd rest everybody that you need to rest, Williams, Sherff, Long, Moses, Norman and just see what happens against Dallas.  And if you're resting 4/5ths of your starting OL, I'd consider sitting Kirk. I probably wouldn't.  But I would STRONGLY consider it. I KNOW it's a division game, and I KNOW it's Dallas.  

 

However, if you rush everybody back to play Dallas, and lose a couple guys for several weeks or the season because of it, you haven't helped anything. And you probably are going to lose anyway if you have no OL.  

 

If you have some health, and you are a playoff team, you should beat the NYG twice, the Cardinals.  and Chargers.  That gets you to 7 wins.  You are going to have to split with Dallas to make the playoffs.  Doesn't matter where or how.  If you punt this game, you HAVE to win in Dallas.  

 

Then you've got to win 2 of Seattle, Minn, Saints or Broncos.  

 

If it means punting on this game for the greater good because of injuries, I'd do it.  It puts a ton of pressure on you to play well down the road, and reduces your margin of error to have a bad game against a bad team.  

 

But they are not playing with a full deck right now, and they have to be creative on how they might be able to get out of this jam. And if honestly they have no OL, and resting them for a week might get guys healthy enough for the stretch, I'd consider going full boar on it, and not just do it 50/50.

 

All of the yes.  All of it.

 

You don't push people through injuries if you can't guarantee that they won't get hurt AND that the reward would be a Lombardi.  You just can't do it.  Also remember that at this point, some season-ending injuries will carry over into 2018.  Hall is an unfortunate example of that.

This isn't a Super Bowl team.  Rest your guys until they're healthy, or else you're going to prevent yourself from winning.  To be fair, I don't give a **** about enjoying the games.  I haven't since 2012's ending.  I just want that Lombardi.  I'll take a bad ending to 2017 if it gives us a shot at the whole thing next year.

Could you imagine how stupid you would feel if you rushed back Trent Williams, *THE* most important player on the team, and then lost him for the season into next with an ACL?  Or worse?  I feel like some of us have completely erased 2012 from our memories.  Had RGIII been pulled for a couple of weeks, we still win those games with Kirk.  A healthy RGIII in the playoffs and that team is a legit Super Bowl threat.  I couldn't care less about eeking out a loss in the wild card, division, or conference.  Hell, even losing the Super Bowl is just a ****ty draft pick.

We've gotta act more like snipers and less like infantry:  Take your shot when you will make your kill, don't just spray and pray.

6 minutes ago, kleese said:

@Voice_of_Reason, believe it or not, I kinda sorta agree with you on this  

 

I don't necessarily think we need 10 wins though; I think 9 could cut it-- as a matter of fact, I'll go on the record and say at least one WC team in the NFC is 9-7. But that would make your suggestion even more valid. Now, as a staff, you can't punt NFL games mid-season without massive cause. And if a guy like Moses and Long are basically OK to go just a little sore, I don't think you can sit them just because. Where I would agree is if we have guys like Trent and Scherff and Norman who are VERY iffy health-wise and would be really pushing it to play-- this would be a week where you just let them sit and think greater good for the season. Maybe we lose, but maybe then we have more of a full deck headed to Seattle (a game everyone will pick us to lose, but a game I see as very winnable).

 

Question:  If Trent, Norman, and Scherff are out, then do you rest Long and Moses who could possibly manage to force themselves through?  I do in a heartbeat.  Live to play another down.

[bedlamVR]

I understand the sentiment but players are never 100% and they always want to play . I would be more on board if this was Seattle week and we were away . It's still an NFC game but (seatle still are in the NFC right ?) but the cowboys game is worth too much not to put your best effort out there .. 

 

is is anyone else getting that body bag feeling about that Philly game ... and I really hate Schwartz and his play through the flag and then some mentality ... yes there is tough and physical and then there is the Jeff Fischer and Jim Schwartz cheep tough ... these guys should not be in football ... 

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 minute ago, kleese said:

@Voice_of_Reason, believe it or not, I kinda sorta agree with you on this  

 

I don't necessarily think we need 10 wins though; I think 9 could cut it-- as a matter of fact, I'll go on the record and say at least one WC team in the NFC is 9-7. But that would make your suggestion even more valid. Now, as a staff, you can't punt NFL games mid-season without massive cause. And if a guy like Moses and Long are basically OK to go just a little sore, I don't think you can sit them just because. Where I would agree is if we have guys like Trent and Scherff and Norman who are VERY iffy health-wise and would be really pushing it to play-- this would be a week where you just let them sit and think greater good for the season. Maybe we lose, but maybe then we have more of a full deck headed to Seattle (a game everyone will pick us to lose, but a game I see as very winnable).

It's possible 9-7 gets you there.  But tie-breakers would be key in that, and IF you lose the Dallas game (whether you are trying or not), the best you can be in division is 3-3.  That might not cut it as the tie-breaker for 9-7. 

 

I agree that you can't just punt the game if there's no reason.  But from what I heard from Jay this morning, it sounded like Long was a long shot (see what I did there?)  Sherff was a long-shot, Moses has 2 sprained ankles, and Trent probably would do whatever it took to play, but probably shouldn't.

 

Let's say for a second that Sherff and Long can't play, and Moses could, but he's going to be SEVERELY limited with 2 sprained ankles.  No drive, slow feet, etc.  

 

There might be a situation where one of those guys NEEDs to play just because they don't have enough players to actually field a team if they don't.  

 

Let's say

Rouillier comes in to play center for Long

Catalina comes in to play guard for Sherff

Clemmings comes in to play Tackle for Moses or Williams.

 

That's all you got.  Ty is out.  So, IF Williams, Long, Sherff AND Moses can't go, you probably have to sign somebody from the PS and start them.  

 

If that's the case, I'd rest everybody and play it like a pre-season game.  You're not going to win, so why risk getting somebody else hurt?  

 

What is going to happen is that Williams and Moses will both play, Sherff and Long probably won't, and they will keep aggravating their injuries which won't heal, so they'll be sub-optimized the entire year.  At least Moses.  Williams needs surgery, so his story is already written.  

[NewCliche21]

2 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

What is going to happen is that Williams and Moses will both play, Sherff and Long probably won't, and they will keep aggravating their injuries which won't heal, so they'll be sub-optimized the entire year.  At least Moses.  Williams needs surgery, so his story is already written.  

 

Williams's story is already written if nothing else happens.  One shot to the knee or compensated step gone wrong could be devastating.  It's not worth it for him to play.  Trent is saying he's in a lot of pain and he NEVER complains.  That means it's a big deal.

[Voice_of_Reason]

8 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said:

We've gotta act more like snipers and less like infantry:  Take your shot when you will make your kill, don't just spray and pray.

I love this quote.  Is it original?  

 

8 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said:

Question:  If Trent, Norman, and Scherff are out, then do you rest Long and Moses who could possibly manage to force themselves through?  I do in a heartbeat.  Live to play another down.

I think Trent will try to go.  From what I hear, his injury is about the same as it was, and he's been going on it so far.  Norman is closer.  It sounded like Long was rally questionable, as was Sherff.  

 

If Long and Sherff are both questionable, and Moses is like 50% and won't heal better than that without taking a game or two off, do you play him?  Do you really want a 50% RT for the next 10 games?  

 

I actually think Trent is just hanging on until Ty comes back.  And the minute he's able to, he (or the team) is going to shut it down.  

 

2 minutes ago, bedlamVR said:

I understand the sentiment but players are never 100% and they always want to play . I would be more on board if this was Seattle week and we were away . It's still an NFC game but (seatle still are in the NFC right ?) but the cowboys game is worth too much not to put your best effort out there .. 

I agree that it's a big ask to not put your best effort forward.  But what if your best effort in no way shape or form gives you a legitimate chance to win the game, and at the same time detracts from your chance to win other games?

 

This is why the adults in the room have to make the call.  And that's not the players.  

 

BUT, this is unconventional.  So there's no way they will do it.  They'll press whoever they can into playing, and lose anyway.  

 

[kleese]

10 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said:

 

All of the yes.  All of it.

 

You don't push people through injuries if you can't guarantee that they won't get hurt AND that the reward would be a Lombardi.  You just can't do it.  Also remember that at this point, some season-ending injuries will carry over into 2018.  Hall is an unfortunate example of that.

This isn't a Super Bowl team.  Rest your guys until they're healthy, or else you're going to prevent yourself from winning.  To be fair, I don't give a **** about enjoying the games.  I haven't since 2012's ending.  I just want that Lombardi.  I'll take a bad ending to 2017 if it gives us a shot at the whole thing next year.

Could you imagine how stupid you would feel if you rushed back Trent Williams, *THE* most important player on the team, and then lost him for the season into next with an ACL?  Or worse?  I feel like some of us have completely erased 2012 from our memories.  Had RGIII been pulled for a couple of weeks, we still win those games with Kirk.  A healthy RGIII in the playoffs and that team is a legit Super Bowl threat.  I couldn't care less about eeking out a loss in the wild card, division, or conference.  Hell, even losing the Super Bowl is just a ****ty draft pick.

We've gotta act more like snipers and less like infantry:  Take your shot when you will make your kill, don't just spray and pray.

 

Question:  If Trent, Norman, and Scherff are out, then do you rest Long and Moses who could possibly manage to force themselves through?  I do in a heartbeat.  Live to play another down.

 

No because then the guys that do play the game (Kirk, Thompson, etc.) may not live to play another down. If we sat all 4 of those guys, we literally do not have enough guys on the roster that are healthy to replace them. So that means taking Clemmings, Roullier, and Catalina and starting them. Then, I guess you need to cut someone from the active roster and bring up another OL from the practice squad. And then that would leave you with zero backup OL for the game.

 

Playing in the NFL requires toughness and playing through pain. There is a difference between playing on a severely damaged knee ligament and a couple of sore ankles though. If teams sat out guys routinely who could play but were hurting, no one could field a team.

[Voice_of_Reason]

4 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said:

 

Williams's story is already written if nothing else happens.  One shot to the knee or compensated step gone wrong could be devastating.  It's not worth it for him to play.  Trent is saying he's in a lot of pain and he NEVER complains.  That means it's a big deal.

What I meant there is that time is not going to heal his wound.  He's got what he's got, and it can't really get better until surgery. 

 

Moses can get better with rest and rehab.  Same with Sherff and (I think) Long.  

1 minute ago, kleese said:

 

No because then the guys that do play the game (Kirk, Thompson, etc.) may not live to play another down. If we sat all 4 of those guys, we literally do not have enough guys on the roster that are healthy to replace them. So that means taking Clemmings, Roullier, and Catalina and starting them. Then, I guess you need to cut someone from the active roster and bring up another OL from the practice squad. And then that would leave you with zero backup OL for the game.

 

Playing in the NFL requires toughness and playing through pain. There is a difference between playing on a severely damaged knee ligament and a couple of sore ankles though. If teams sat out guys routinely who could play but were hurting, no one could field a team.

What if they just can't go?  Toughness is fine, and these guys are tough. 

 

Is Kirk better off with a Moses who can't move or with a backup tackle? The answer is neither.  He's ****ed either way.  

 

And "a couple of sore ankles" = guy might play but is going to be ineffective.  

 

 

[kleese]

4 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

What I meant there is that time is not going to heal his wound.  He's got what he's got, and it can't really get better until surgery. 

 

Moses can get better with rest and rehab.  Same with Sherff and (I think) Long.  

What if they just can't go?  Toughness is fine, and these guys are tough. 

 

Is Kirk better off with a Moses who can't move or with a backup tackle? The answer is neither.  He's ****ed either way.  

 

And "a couple of sore ankles" = guy might play but is going to be ineffective.  

 

 

 

I think you'd be surprised at how many of these guys play through pain and play well. Breeland was awesome on Monday and I can almost guarantee you that his knee was not fully healed from the week before. It's a brutal game and it takes a massive toll on the body, but "toughing it out" is more or less necessary. Of course, in some cases the guy is too badly injured to play or entirely too ineffective if he did. But for a guy like Moses, he may still feel lousy on Saturday, but they can give him treatment, shoot him up, tape those ankles real tight and once that adrenaline flows he could very well feel good enough to play at a high level. Now, he might be hurting bad after the game and then it becomes a rinse/repeat deal, but if you just wait for NFL players to feel "good" week to week you could be waiting a long time.

[NewCliche21]

11 minutes ago, kleese said:

 

No because then the guys that do play the game (Kirk, Thompson, etc.) may not live to play another down. If we sat all 4 of those guys, we literally do not have enough guys on the roster that are healthy to replace them. So that means taking Clemmings, Roullier, and Catalina and starting them. Then, I guess you need to cut someone from the active roster and bring up another OL from the practice squad. And then that would leave you with zero backup OL for the game.

 

Playing in the NFL requires toughness and playing through pain. There is a difference between playing on a severely damaged knee ligament and a couple of sore ankles though. If teams sat out guys routinely who could play but were hurting, no one could field a team.

 

I can see what you're saying math-wise, but I just don't see a good option here.  Moses on two bad ankles is a bad tackle.  You saw him go down a couple times, and we don't need him going down for the year.  These aren't minor injuries that just need some tape or a club or a brace.

 

10 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

What I meant there is that time is not going to heal his wound.  He's got what he's got, and it can't really get better until surgery. 

 

Moses can get better with rest and rehab.  Same with Sherff and (I think) Long.  

What if they just can't go?  Toughness is fine, and these guys are tough. 

 

Is Kirk better off with a Moses who can't move or with a backup tackle? The answer is neither.  He's ****ed either way.  

 

And "a couple of sore ankles" = guy might play but is going to be ineffective.  

 

I get what you meant, and I'm just accentuating the point by saying that we're already at best-case scenario for the year with that injury.  It only gets worse from there if he really does need a week or four off in order to be an effective tackle who can get offseason surgery.

[max21]

55 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I'm going to get absolutely crushed for this, and this is the worst possible week to say this, but I think the team needs to take the long-view at the season, and not game-by-game.

 

Here's the schedule:

 

Dallas

@ Seattle

Minn

@Saints

NYG (Short week, Thanksgiving night)

@Cowboys (1 week rest, also Thursday night)

@Charger (long week)

Cardinals

Broncos

@Giants

 

You've got to get to 10 wins to get into the playoff. The division is out of reach.  You're 3-3 now.  

 

I'd rest everybody that you need to rest, Williams, Sherff, Long, Moses, Norman and just see what happens against Dallas.  And if you're resting 4/5ths of your starting OL, I'd consider sitting Kirk. I probably wouldn't.  But I would STRONGLY consider it. I KNOW it's a division game, and I KNOW it's Dallas.  

 

However, if you rush everybody back to play Dallas, and lose a couple guys for several weeks or the season because of it, you haven't helped anything. And you probably are going to lose anyway if you have no OL.  

 

If you have some health, and you are a playoff team, you should beat the NYG twice, the Cardinals.  and Chargers.  That gets you to 7 wins.  You are going to have to split with Dallas to make the playoffs.  Doesn't matter where or how.  If you punt this game, you HAVE to win in Dallas.  

 

Then you've got to win 2 of Seattle, Minn, Saints or Broncos.  

 

If it means punting on this game for the greater good because of injuries, I'd do it.  It puts a ton of pressure on you to play well down the road, and reduces your margin of error to have a bad game against a bad team.  

 

But they are not playing with a full deck right now, and they have to be creative on how they might be able to get out of this jam. And if honestly they have no OL, and resting them for a week might get guys healthy enough for the stretch, I'd consider going full boar on it, and not just do it 50/50.

 

 

 

 

Did you just say sit Kirk Cousins against Dallas? I’m not sure if I read that correctly. 

[NewCliche21]

3 minutes ago, kleese said:

 

I think you'd be surprised at how many of these guys play through pain and play well. Breeland was awesome on Monday and I can almost guarantee you that his knee was not fully healed from the week before. It's a brutal game and it takes a massive toll on the body, but "toughing it out" is more or less necessary. Of course, in some cases the guy is too badly injured to play or entirely too ineffective if he did. But for a guy like Moses, he may still feel lousy on Saturday, but they can give him treatment, shoot him up, tape those ankles real tight and once that adrenaline flows he could very well feel good enough to play at a high level. Now, he might be hurting bad after the game and then it becomes a rinse/repeat deal, but if you just wait for NFL players to feel "good" week to week you could be waiting a long time.

 

Nobody is saying to be a baby and not play because of a hangnail, but pushing through pain can be stupid if it leads to a huge injury.  This isn't a playoff game or the Super Bowl; this is Week 8 of a year that is just as likely as 2016 to be a playoff year.  It's not a Super Bowl year, which is all that matters.

Adrenaline masks pain and can be detrimental.  Adrenaline is there, neurologically speaking, to enable you to escape a threat to your life.  It doesn't prevent damage.

You also can't compare Breeland to Williams.  Breeland could be gone and we'd lose our number two corner.  If Williams is gone, then we're losing basically the foundation of our offense.  Backups need tight ends to stay in and chip a pass rusher, and that's not Reed's or Davis's strength.  That takes those two out of the game in many situations.  Same with Thompson.

I can't stress enough how big of a deal it is for Trent friggin' Williams to say that he's in a lot of pain.  That's like Bill Gates saying something's expensive or an Eskimo saying it's freezing outside.  Williams doesn't complain or exaggerate, he does the opposite.  If he's saying it's bad, then it's unbearable for almost anyone else.  Gruden has talked about his toughness forever and not once questioned, especially in public, whether or not Williams should be careful.  He did yesterday, though.

Let him rest.

[UKskins]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

If it means punting on this game for the greater good because of injuries, I'd do it.  It puts a ton of pressure on you to play well down the road, and reduces your margin of error to have a bad game against a bad team.  

 

But they are not playing with a full deck right now, and they have to be creative on how they might be able to get out of this jam. And if honestly they have no OL, and resting them for a week might get guys healthy enough for the stretch, I'd consider going full boar on it, and not just do it 50/50.

 

Why would benching Kirk be punting the game? You've clearly forgotten that King Colt is the Cowboy Killa.

[Voice_of_Reason]

49 minutes ago, maxspruill21 said:

Did you just say sit Kirk Cousins against Dallas? I’m not sure if I read that correctly. 

I'm saying IF (and only if) Williams, Long, Sherff and Moses all can't go, then I might consider sitting Kirk (and CT, Reed, VD, Breeland, Norman, and anybody else with any type of injury because there's about a 1% chance that you're going to win the game, and a 90% chance that you're going to get somebody else hurt.

 

IF.  

 

None of this will happen.  We will somehow get Williams, Moses and probably Sherff out there all in sub-optimal states, and hope for the best.  We will fight bravely, and lose quickly.  (Line stolen from Zoro movie with Antonio Bandaras and Anthony Hopkins.  Great line.  "You will fight bravely and die quickly."  

22 minutes ago, UKskins said:

 

Why would benching Kirk be punting the game? You've clearly forgotten that King Colt is the Cowboy Killa.

If Williams, Long, Sherff and Moses are all out, I might start whatshisnugget-inactive-third-string-guy

 

 

[dyst]

A guy hobbling around on a bad knee and we want to continue playing him. I think he should be rested/get surgery so he can have even more time to recover by  next year. 

[Wildbunny]

15 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I'm saying IF (and only if) Williams, Long, Sherff and Moses all can't go, then I might consider sitting Kirk (and CT, Reed, VD, Breeland, Norman, and anybody else with any type of injury because there's about a 1% chance that you're going to win the game, and a 90% chance that you're going to get somebody else hurt.

 

IF.  

 

None of this will happen.  We will somehow get Williams, Moses and probably Sherff out there all in sub-optimal states, and hope for the best.  We will fight bravely, and lose quickly.  (Line stolen from Zoro movie with Antonio Bandaras and Anthony Hopkins.  Great line.  "You will fight bravely and die quickly."

I can see the point in resting many guys.

Not sure the Dallas game is the game to do it. Sure we still have many winnable games down the road to make up for it, but losing it would put us at 0-3 within the division and that might haunt you back in the tiebreaking procedure at the end of regular season.

 

Now I'm pretty sure that Trent is pushing things until Ty is cleared. And if he already was, Trent wouldn't have played last game. Pretty sure Scherff will play also. But considering our OL roster, I'm not sure I'm ready to go with a line that would look like that:

Clemmings - Lauvao - Roulier - Catalina - Bowen.

Ideally, you want to dress the subs against sub competition where it is easier for them to make it. But throwing them against the most important rival in one heated game, that could get nasty. And since we only have 2 QBs you don't want either to get hurt, or CT as well. 

 

It's OK to rest injured guys, but you need some vets to take care of them on the field as well. You need the Cousins, the Thompsons, the Davises... And you need a freaking game plan to make up for this sub line and still field a competitive team. Now if it works. Then well, you're the coach of the year IMHO.