General Mass Shooting Thread (originally Las Vegas Strip)

[steve09ru]

6 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

My wording wasn’t exact and I don’t want to mislead.  What I read was that the father bought the gun that was used on Black Friday. Didn’t read anything about whether or not it was intended for the son’s use.

may want to edit as to not mislead then?  the exact wording was that the dad bought the killer his weapon.

[Ball Security]

5 minutes ago, steve09ru said:

may want to edit as to not mislead then?  the exact wording was that the dad bought the killer his weapon.

Edited above.  The dad bought the killer’s weapon.

[steve09ru]

13 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

Edited above.  The dad bought the killer’s weapon.

or son/killer took fathers gun?  not to be nit picky but phrasings like that tend to cause a lot of misinformation and early assumptions as we've seen in the past

Edited December 1, 2021 by steve09ru

[Ball Security]

10 minutes ago, steve09ru said:

or son/killer took fathers gun?  not to be nit picky but phrasings like that tend to cause a lot of misinformation and early assumptions as we've seen in the past

It’s not inaccurate though.  The father bought the killer’s gun.  Did someone else buy the killer’s gun?  Maybe if the reporting is completely wrong.  Did he take the father’s gun?  Perhaps.  Did he buy the gun for the son? We don’t know.  Was the father too irresponsible to secure the gun?  Could be. But that doesn’t change the fact that the father bought the gun on a Friday and by Wednesday there are four dead kids that died from a bullet from the gun he purchased.

Edited December 1, 2021 by Ball Security

[TheGreatBuzz]

2 hours ago, Hersh said:

 

https://www.engadget.com/congress-mandate-anti-drunk-driving-technology-cars-201820120.html

 

It's literally in the infrastructure bill just passed.

Thanks.  I actually wasn’t aware of that and it is good to see.  Wish it got the coverage it deserves though.

 

2 hours ago, clietas said:

 

Well that and 4x as many people die each year from gun violence as opposed to drunk driving. 🤷‍♀️

 

Stats are difficult. 🤭

Notice I said homicide by gun.  Apparently reading is hard also.  I’ll have to get back to you on the suicide by drunk driving numbers.

 

Quote

In 2019, 14,861 people in the U.S. died from firearm homicide,

https://health.ucdavis.edu/what-you-can-do/facts.html

[Captain Wiggles]

3 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Notice I said homicide by gun.  Apparently reading is hard also. 

 

Yeah thats why I said gun violence when referring to the actual numbers. Not your cherry picked "homicide" numbers. 🤣

[Destino]

16 minutes ago, clietas said:

 

Yeah thats why I said gun violence when referring to the actual numbers. Not your cherry picked "homicide" numbers. 🤣

What’s included in violence?  Is a suicide violence?  Is a justified shooting of an attempted murderer included?  
 

its all academic though, ultimately, because even if you just include illegal criminal activity involving guns it’s still abundantly clear that the answer is “too much”.  I’m a fan of gun rights and castle laws.  I think people should be allowed to defend themselves inside their homes/businesses with zero duty to retreat and I don’t care if criminals are killed in the process.  
 

I’m not anti gun.  I’m not on the same planet as anti gun…. but the current gun situation is absurd.  There is an astonishing amount of gun violence here, for an advanced western state.  Something has to change.  Restrictions and regulation must be strengthened. 

 

I also think we have to take a look at the amount of fear and violence in our culture and schools too.  There really isn’t enough drilled into kids heads concerning just how bad violence is, and why, happening in schools.  We talk about racism, prejudice bullying, etc all the time (which is good) but I see very little evidence that they examine rage and violence specifically.  (This is not in lieu of further gun reform, but in addition to it, as a secondary objective.)

 

 

[Dan T.]

Oakland County Sheriff states in a press conference that it was not the shooter who knocked on the classroom door in a video widely circulating on social media, but was in fact a law enforcement officer.

[TheGreatBuzz]

15 minutes ago, Destino said:

I’m not anti gun.  I’m not on the same planet as anti gun…. but the current gun situation is absurd.  There is an astonishing amount of gun violence here, for an advanced western state.  Something has to change.  Restrictions and regulation must be strengthened.

Drunk driving argument aside, it should be noted I’m on this side also regarding gun regulation.

[tshile]

For the people that don’t frequent these threads:

for the most part the people that for gun rights that post in these threads here, have acknowledged the current situation is unacceptable and changes need to be made. And have offered many ideas over the years on changes. 
 

that includes me, @TheGreatBuzz, @Destinoand others. 
 

the people who aren’t like us and come into these threads and spout silly pro gun stuff, are for the most part drive by posters. 
 

it’s shame some of you other frequent posters haven’t figured it out yet. 
 

for the most part, we’re on your side. And have been for a while. 

[Ball Security]

32 minutes ago, tshile said:

For the people that don’t frequent these threads:

for the most part the people that for gun rights that post in these threads here, have acknowledged the current situation is unacceptable and changes need to be made. And have offered many ideas over the years on changes. 
 

that includes me, @TheGreatBuzz, @Destinoand others. 
 

the people who aren’t like us and come into these threads and spout silly pro gun stuff, are for the most part drive by posters. 
 

it’s shame some of you other frequent posters haven’t figured it out yet. 
 

for the most part, we’re on your side. And have been for a while. 

A comment of “If only people had disdain for drunk drivers with the same zeal as they do for gun rights activists. “ after another school shooting in a mass shooting thread is going to get pushback.

[TheGreatBuzz]

5 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

A comment of “If only people had disdain for drunk drivers with the same zeal as they do for gun rights activists. “ after another school shooting in a mass shooting thread is going to get pushback.

You’re right.  And we should ask why when there are other causes of death with similar numbers that get almost zero attention.

[Captain Wiggles]

25 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

And we should ask why when there are other causes of death with similar numbers that get almost zero attention.

 

Except that's not what ya did. You essentially compared apples to oranges. It's just a terrible analogy imo.

 

And drunk driving certainly gets attention. There are even like nation wide campaigns against it with television commercials. Weird.

 

 

 

[China]

This whole page is why I thought the gun control thread should remain open, as that is where this discussion belongs.

[China]

15-year-old boy charged with murder, terrorism in Michigan high school shooting

 

A 15-year-old boy was charged Wednesday with murder, terrorism and other counts for a shooting that killed four fellow students and injured others at Michigan's Oxford High School.

 

Charges against Ethan Crumbley were announced Wednesday, a few hours after authorities reported the death of a fourth teen from the school in southeastern Michigan. Crumbley is charged as an adult with one count of terrorism causing death, four counts of first-degree murder and seven counts assault with intent to murder.

 

Prosecutor Karen McDonald did not reveal a possible motive for the shooting Tuesday at Oxford High School, located in a community of about 22,000 people roughly 30 miles (48 kilometers) north of Detroit. However, she said prosecutors are "confident" they can show the crime was premeditated.

 

"There is a mountain of digital evidence. Videotape, social media, all digital evidence possible," she said.

 

Click on the link for the full article

[TheGreatBuzz]

3 hours ago, clietas said:

Except that's not what ya did. You essentially compared apples to oranges. It's just a terrible analogy imo.

I disagree.  At least with guns, you can say there is at least a minor reasonable place for them in society.  Alcohol (and I say this as a borderline alcoholic) doesn’t serve any necessary function.  Yet we aren’t taking extreme measures to stop alcohol related deaths.  
 

4 hours ago, clietas said:

And drunk driving certainly gets attention. There are even like nation wide campaigns against it with television commercials. Weird.

That’s a good point.  Maybe we should do an ad campaign to tell people to stop shooting each other.  I’m sure that would be an acceptable remedy for the gun control crowd.

[Captain Wiggles]

7 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Alcohol (and I say this as a borderline alcoholic) doesn’t serve any necessary function. 

 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

17 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I disagree.  At least with guns, you can say there is at least a minor reasonable place for them in society.  Alcohol (and I say this as a borderline alcoholic) doesn’t serve any necessary function.  Yet we aren’t taking extreme measures to stop alcohol related deaths.  

What place do guns have in society? I’ll take a ninja over some bumble**** with a gun any day of the week.

[Dan T.]

1 hour ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I disagree.  At least with guns, you can say there is at least a minor reasonable place for them in society.  

 

Guns are a tool for protection, self defense, hunting, etc.  The problem is that a portion of society fetishizes them to an alarming degree.  It's ingrained in our National psyche.  There is a romanticism about them that is just plain weird to me.  The NRA has cultivated that romanticism and fetishism, as has popular culture and a rosy interpretation of America's history, from the "taming of the West" to kicking ass in wars.

 

Yes guns are a tool.  So are hammers. But I know of nobody who zealously collects them, goes to Hammer Shows to ogle and trade them, and takes them out to practice hammering.

[Ball Security]

https://apple.news/A81_1rnkcTp-dkBsO3fzwrg
 

 

[TheGreatBuzz]

2 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

What place do guns have in society? I’ll take a ninja over some bumble**** with a gun any day of the week.

Well I’ll start with police.  
 

1 hour ago, Dan T. said:

 

Guns are a tool for protection, self defense, hunting, etc.  The problem is that a portion of society fetishizes them to an alarming degree.  It's ingrained in our National psyche.  There is a romanticism about them that is just plain weird to me.  The NRA has cultivated that romanticism and fetishism, as has popular culture and a rosy interpretation of America's history, from the "taming of the West" to kicking ass in wars.

 

Yes guns are a tool.  So are hammers. But I know of nobody who zealously collects them, goes to Hammer Shows to ogle and trade them, and takes them out to practice hammering.

So guns have a place.  Cool.  What positive benefit does alcohol serve?

 

 

If your goal is to save X number of lives, there are easier things to focus on.  Im done with trying to make this point.  If you haven’t gotten it by now, it is probably because you don’t want to.  

[CousinsCowgirl84]

5 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Well I’ll start with police.  
 

 

Most UK police don’t have guns and it’s not mad max there… the only reason police need guns here is because of all the people who shouldn’t have guns having guns.

Edited December 2, 2021 by CousinsCowgirl84

[Corcaigh]

1 hour ago, Dan T. said:

 

Yes guns are a tool.  So are hammers. But I know of nobody who zealously collects them, goes to Hammer Shows to ogle and trade them, and takes them out to practice hammering.

What do you call people who fetishize guns and ammunition …  ‘ammosexuals’?

And those who love hammers … ‘Hammersexuals’?

 

[TheGreatBuzz]

12 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

Most UK police don’t have guns and it’s not mad max there… the only reason police need guns here is because of all the people who shouldn’t have guns having guns.

If that is such a great idea, why do only 19 countries follow that example?  And why do police need guns in all of the other countries since gun ownership and violence and only an American problem?

 

 

[Dan T.]

1 hour ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Well I’ll start with police.  
 

So guns have a place.  Cool.  What positive benefit does alcohol serve?

 

 

If your goal is to save X number of lives, there are easier things to focus on.  Im done with trying to make this point.  If you haven’t gotten it by now, it is probably because you don’t want to.  

 

So you want to ban alcohol? And ban guns?  Or have reasonable laws governing their use and abuse?  Because we have reasonable laws governing the use and abuse of alcohol.  For guns?  Not so much.