General Mass Shooting Thread (originally Las Vegas Strip)

[AsburySkinsFan]

2 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

A gun ban would massively reduce his lethality.  That's everyone else's point.

Exactly...only in gun lover NRA-GOPerland does 2 equal 59 + 500+ injured.

 

2 Killed in Knife Attack At French Train Station

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/10/01/554901181/2-killed-in-knife-attack-at-french-train-station

 

At Least 59 Killed in Las Vegas shooting rampage, more than 500 others injured.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/10/02/police-shut-down-part-of-las-vegas-strip-due-to-shooting/

[Going Commando]

2 minutes ago, Popeman38 said:

Most sane hunters arewn't using an AR-15 for deer hunting.

 

I think you would be depressed and surprised to read how many people are out there using hunting as a defense against banning the AR.

 

Just once, I would love for the staunch pro-2nd amendment crowd to acknowledge that,

 

1 - The AR is a toy.

 

and 

 

2 - It's the preferred weapon of mass murderers.  It's how they are getting these ghastly body counts.

[FanboyOf91]

 

[MartinC]

3 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

A travel ban wont stop Terrorism but im sure you championed that ****. The fact is that a gun ban was supported by both sides of the isle it would have a much better chance at slowing these kinds of things and doing nothing. 

 

Simple rules - like the mentally insane shouldn't have guns. There is no reason to let crazy people have guns. Argue that. 

 

And then stuff like this happens 

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-signs-bill-revoking-obama-era-gun-checks-people-mental-n727221

[Chew]

15 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

You might or others might find hunting with semi automatic weapons USEFUL but they are not needed. There is simply no reason for any civilian to own a semi automatic weapon other than they want to - and that’s just not a good enough reason when you see the results.

 

I'm sorry a few dozen mentally unstable people did horrible things with their ARs.  But I'll never hand mine over.  EVER.  I have 75 and 90 round drums for my AK47 and my AR15 simply because I want them, and it's my right to own them. 

 

Legal gun owners might be one of the most law abiding groups of people in the country.

 

I'm all for MUCH stricter laws to obtain guns, a more rigorous background check, multiple mental health screenings, and limiting the amount of guns one can own.  

 

Because unlike most gun enthusiasts in this country, I AM willing to discuss the issue of gun ownership and attempt to somehow find middle ground and compromise. But if all the anti-gun crowd has is "nobody needs ARs, period," then consider me out of the convo.  

[MartinC]

Just now, youngchew said:

 

Because unlike most gun enthusiasts in this country, I AM willing to discuss the issue of gun ownership and attempt to somehow find middle ground and compromise. But if all the anti-gun crowd has is "nobody needs ARs, period," then consider me out of the convo.  

 

Consider yourself excused.

[Popeman38]

2 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

Fair point. So there needs to be nuance in which specific weapons are banned.

"Semi-automatic" has been used by the gun control folks.  A revolver is semi-automatic.

So let's examine .223:

Both of these are .223 semi-automatic rifles.  Only one is viewed as the "scary, assault rifle" types. Both would be banned by a ban on semi-automatic rifles.

 

If you want to get real on gun control, it is going to get uncomfortable for both sides. 90% of gun owners are in favor of responsible gun control laws. The problem is that after events like this, the gun control laws that are bandied about are literally restricting owning hunting rifles.  Some may say you don't need a semi-automatic rifle for hunting, thinking about a rifle like the second pic. Others will swear there is zero need for a hunter to be able to shoot twice without reloading.

 

Fully automatic and automatic are also distinguishers. One is firing, one is loading.  Almost everyone supports the ban on fully automatic rifles - nobody needs a machine gun. But a rifle that loads automatically? The first pic is an automatic loading rifle. 

 

There are nuances involved.

 

 

[TradeTheBeal!]

12 minutes ago, Dan T. said:

 

This is really a dickish response to a heartfelt post.  Don't know if you meant it to come across that way, but that's how it did.

 

Consider it an expression of deep personal insecurity.

[MartinC]

Just now, Popeman38 said:

There are nuances involved.

 

 

 

I agree. And I’m not qualified to comment on those nuances - but there are experts already employed by the Government who are.

[Llevron]

2 minutes ago, youngchew said:

 

I'm sorry a few dozen mentally unstable people did horrible things with their ARs.  But I'll never hand mine over.  EVER.  I have 75 and 90 round drums for my AK47 and my AR15 simply because I want them, and it's my right to own them. 

 

 

 

 

[Going Commando]

13 minutes ago, Popeman38 said:

This is a semi-automatic hunting rifle:

 

As Martin said, including nuance in the semi-auto rifle ban will be necessary.  Base it on magazine capacity and make the cutoff small, 4-6 rounds.  You shouldn't need more than that if people can hunt coyote with a bolt action.  If someone does think they need more than that, then I'm sorry, they're just being friggin lazy.

[Popeman38]

8 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

I think you would be depressed and surprised to read how many people are out there using hunting as a defense against banning the AR.

 

Just once, I would love for the staunch pro-2nd amendment crowd to acknowledge that,

 

1 - The AR is a toy.

 

and 

 

2 - It's the preferred weapon of mass murderers.  It's how they are getting these ghastly body counts.

1 - The AR is a toy. An adult toy. That fires the exact same round as the hunting rifle in my previous post. Meaning, banning an AR will do nothing to prevent these incidents. Admit it, the AR is the target because it looks scary/military. Same rate of fire, same round, same magazine capacity for a hunting rifle. It just doesn't look scary/military.

 

2 - It's the vehicle, yes. But you can get the same body counts with a .223 round fired from a weapon that is dressed in polished walnut instead of black plastic. Is banning scary/military weapons going to accomplish anything?

[Llevron]

Guns that are used to kill 50+ people should not be available to the public. How ****ing hard is that? Lets start there and then nuance all you ****ing want. But the priority should be stopping 50+ people from dying. Not what a few Americans want. 

 

To bring this full circle kneeling during the anthem literally hurts no one. Literally, no one is harmed. But half of the GOP and its base are up in arms about it. 59 people murdered in a few minutes and we have cats talking about its the price of freedom. 

[MartinC]

1 minute ago, Popeman38 said:

1 - The AR is a toy. An adult toy. That fires the exact same round as the hunting rifle in my previous post. Meaning, banning an AR will do nothing to prevent these incidents. Admit it, the AR is the target because it looks scary/military. Same rate of fire, same round, same magazine capacity for a hunting rifle. It just doesn't look scary/military.

 

2 - It's the vehicle, yes. But you can get the same body counts with a .223 round fired from a weapon that is dressed in polished walnut instead of black plastic. Is banning scary/military weapons going to accomplish anything?

 

Its not the calibre of round that’s the issue, it’s magazine capacity, rate of fire and speed of reloading. Like I said I’m woefully unqualified on the technical aspects but there are plenty of experts out there who can craft something sensible.

[Llevron]

2 minutes ago, Popeman38 said:

1 - The AR is a toy. An adult toy. That fires the exact same round as the hunting rifle in my previous post. Meaning, banning an AR will do nothing to prevent these incidents. Admit it, the AR is the target because it looks scary/military. Same rate of fire, same round, same magazine capacity for a hunting rifle. It just doesn't look scary/military.

 

2 - It's the vehicle, yes. But you can get the same body counts with a .223 round fired from a weapon that is dressed in polished walnut instead of black plastic. Is banning scary/military weapons going to accomplish anything?

 

They are literally the same gun then? So why do folks go to the AR for the murder sprees? Asking in earnest cause clearly you know more than me on this one. 

15 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

And then stuff like this happens 

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-signs-bill-revoking-obama-era-gun-checks-people-mental-n727221

 

Yea someone defend this. 

[AsburySkinsFan]

.223 is a terrible hunting round. Too small and they are designed to tumble and bounce through the body. It is not a clean hunting round like a .308. 

 

This is the point in the debate where those who want to protect the right to own a fully automatic machine gun try to reduce the whole argument down to the differences between a 12 round or 13 round magazine, or the (according to them) arbitrary differences between fixed and collapsable stocks. 

The reality is that the destructive power of a semi-automatic is far superior to a bolt action. And EVERY gun owner knows it, that’s why semi-autos were invented in the first place! 

 

But for NRA cultists and GOPers alike, the blood of 500+ innocents is necessary to water the tree of freedom.

Edited October 3, 2017 by AsburySkinsFan

[Mooka]

16 minutes ago, twa said:

If someone like him decides to kill large numbers a gun ban wouldn't stop him.....which is their point.

 

You just made that up though. 

 

A gun ban could've very easily stopped this man, we don't have the slightest clue atm. 

 

10 minutes ago, youngchew said:

 

I'm sorry a few dozen mentally unstable people did horrible things with their ARs.  But I'll never hand mine over.  EVER.  I have 75 and 90 round drums for my AK47 and my AR15 simply because I want them, and it's my right to own them. 

 

Legal gun owners might be one of the most law abiding groups of people in the country.

 

I'm all for MUCH stricter laws to obtain guns, a more rigorous background check, multiple mental health screenings, and limiting the amount of guns one can own.  

 

Because unlike most gun enthusiasts in this country, I AM willing to discuss the issue of gun ownership and attempt to somehow find middle ground and compromise. But if all the anti-gun crowd has is "nobody needs ARs, period," then consider me out of the convo.  

 

For the time being maybe.

 

And if those MUCH stricter laws say that your AR15 is now illegal for whatever reason? 

[twa]

27 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

A gun ban would massively reduce his lethality.  That's everyone else's point.

 

I doubt it, though it would probably change his weapon of choice.

Guns are far from the most lethal options.

 

I do agree bans reduce the use of things in general though,...but general is not really the problem in such cases.

[codeorama]

I'm a gun owner and I am all for the right to own guns. However, I'm anti NRA and have no problem with very strict background checks and assault rifle bans.

[TradeTheBeal!]

Just now, codeorama said:

I'm a gun owner and I am all for the right to own guns. However, I'm anti NRA and have no problem with very strict background checks and assault rifle bans.

 

Thats because you are a sane and reasonable individual.

[Going Commando]

1 minute ago, Popeman38 said:

1 - The AR is a toy. An adult toy. That fires the exact same round as the hunting rifle in my previous post. Meaning, banning an AR will do nothing to prevent these incidents. Admit it, the AR is the target because it looks scary/military. Same rate of fire, same round, same magazine capacity for a hunting rifle. It just doesn't look scary/military.

 

I just looked it up and the BAR Mark II Safari you linked to has a standard magazine capacity of four.  What's wrong with restricting magazine capacities to four then?

 

I don't really care about what the guns look like, I care about the lethality.  We need to be doing an 100% intellectually honest evaluation and calculation of the lethality of every single one of these platforms.  That needs to be weighed against the legitimate needs of hunters face to determine what ought to be legal.  And if the hunter's only real defense for a platform is "I don't feel like having to reload every 6, 8, 10 shots, etc.," then that's not good enough.

 

But we're not even getting close to a conversation about what ought to be banned.  We can barely even have the conversation about universal background checks and we have no hope of passing even that because of the Republican party.

[Chew]

5 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

Consider yourself excused.

 

K. I'll grab my long guns and drums and go home.  End of the day, I'm getting everything I want. 

 

Thanks for being so open-minded and willing to meet me in the middle somewhere. 

 

The NRA continues to pound their agenda because of the anti-gun crowd with your mentality that refuses to compromise at all.  

[MartinC]

Just now, youngchew said:

 

K. I'll grab my long guns and drums and go home.  End of the day, I'm getting everything I want. 

 

Thanks for being so open-minded and willing to meet me in the middle somewhere. 

 

The NRA continues to pound their agenda because of the anti-gun crowd with your mentality that refuses to compromise at all.  

 

Sometimes in life there is no middle ground. This is one of those times.

[Llevron]

1 minute ago, youngchew said:

 

The NRA continues to pound their agenda because of the anti-gun crowd with your mentality that refuses to compromise at all.  

 

That's probably the most naive thing I have ever read in the tailgate. You actually think the NRA wants anything other than to make money?

 

And they want to compromise? They literally were against a law put I'm place to limit the same of guns to crazy people. How was that not a compromise? 

 

You people are twisted 

[Dan T.]

Here's a demo of how a "bump stock" works so that a semiautomatic weapon can mimic an automatic weapon.