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Great article about Sanders and how we have Trump

LadySkinsFan

By LadySkinsFan
in The Tailgate

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88Comrade2000

88Comrade2000

Posted
Posted

Poor Hillary. Simple fact, she was a lousy candidate that didn't inspire.

The Dems were idiots for basically giving her the nomination. A person

who has been targeted for a generation. A person who comes off as

distrustful. If the Dems went with someone else, not Bernie, but someone

else; that person would be president and not Trump.

 

 

What's ironic, a non-Democratic is essentially the real leader of the Democratic party now.  It is his agenda that will be the litmus test in next year's and 2020's primaries.  The Democratic candidates in 2018 and 2920 are going to have to agree and espouse his views.  If they don't, then they probably won't get support from the Bernie wing and that wing will be needed for them to win.

 

Bernie won't be the nominee in 2020 but his views will animate the party for the next 3 years.

 

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Zguy28

Zguy28

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Rdskns2000 said:

Poor Hillary. Simple fact, she was a lousy candidate that didn't inspire.

The Dems were idiots for basically giving her the nomination. A person

who has been targeted for a generation. A person who comes off as

distrustful. If the Dems went with someone else, not Bernie, but someone

else; that person would be president and not Trump.

 

 

What's ironic, a non-Democratic is essentially the real leader of the Democratic party now.  It is his agenda that will be the litmus test in next year's and 2020's primaries.  The Democratic candidates in 2018 and 2920 are going to have to agree and espouse his views.  If they don't, then they probably won't get support from the Bernie wing and that wing will be needed for them to win.

 

Bernie won't be the nominee in 2020 but his views will animate the party for the next 3 years.

 

Bernie succeeded in fracturing the Democrats. The only hope of reunification is that President Trump is "that bad."

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PeterMP

PeterMP

Posted
Posted

Bernie's long term consequences and so legacy are still up in the air and partly up to Bernie.  If it is healthcare, where over the last year or so more Americans are at least telling pollsters that they support single payer and more universal systems, that's one thing.  If that becomes the Bernie litmus test, I'm not sure that's bad for America or the Democratic party.

 

Even in terms of corporate America, I don't know of any polls, but I'm not sure that you couldn't find rather broad support for better/more regulations and breaking up some of the larger US corporations, especially financial institutions.

 

If it is things like a higher minimum wage, again, I'm not sure that's an issue for the Democratic party.

 

Realistically, support for those things are at least pretty broadly accepted in the Democratic party already (see Elizabeth Warren with respect to regulations).

 

If it is his ideas on trade, then that's another thing.  

 

I don't think he actually has the power or prestige to push his agenda forward on all fronts.  He's going to have to make decisions about what is important and for now at least, he seems to be focused on health care.

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Bozo the kKklown

Bozo the kKklown

Posted
Posted

I am not on team Bernie, but Hillary was a bad candidate. Blaming Sanders for this sounds like something Clinton has and will continue to say and its lame.

4 hours ago, PeterMP said:

I don't think he actually has the power or prestige to push his agenda forward on all fronts.

He has never had the power to push his agenda forward, lol.

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BRAVEONAWARPATH

BRAVEONAWARPATH

Posted
Posted
Just now, BenningRoadSkin said:

im well aware.

 

But I am not about to sit here on some, "well Clinton lost because of Bernie" stuff like a lot of people want to do.

 

She lost because she sucks as a candidate. That has always been her problem.

I agree.

 

 I actually think she would have been a solid President.

 

Unfortunately for her, you have to actually get elected first.

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PeterMP

PeterMP

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Bernie >>>> Hillary. What do you want him to do? Not run? If he believes that he can do a better job and that his ideas are better for the country, he should run.

 

There's plenty of blame to go around for Trump. Bernie is way, way, way down the list.

 

If you read the piece, the issue is less that he ran, but how he ran, especially in the context of some of the actions of his supporters.

 

The problem isn't that he ran and voiced ideas, the problem is he ran on a platform that essentially the whole Democratic party was part of the "bad" establishment, including things like the Congressional Black Caucus, gay right groups, etc.

 

(And realistically, I think you could argue they are part of the establishment, but realistically, he is also part of that same establishment.)

 

That attitude creates a distinction that the difference between most Democratic candidates and more Republican candidates is nothing, which isn't true.

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AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy

AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy

Posted
Posted

I loved Bernie.  In my opinion, when he painted Hillary as part of the problem, I think he was right.  I wanted him to win.

 

I have seen our healthcare system destroy the lives of people I love.  Universal healthcare is a big deal to me.  

 

I voted for Hillary, and would vote for her again.  But I think her arrogance cost her the election.  She ran a poor campaign and did a poor job of getting out the vote.

 

 

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Sacks 'n' Stuff

Sacks 'n' Stuff

Posted
Posted
30 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

If you read the piece, the issue is less that he ran, but how he ran, especially in the context of some of the actions of his supporters. The problem isn't that he ran and voiced ideas, the problem is he ran on a platform that essentially the whole Democratic party was part of the "bad" establishment, including things like the Congressional Black Caucus, gay right groups, etc. (And realistically, I think you could argue they are part of the establishment, but realistically, he is also part of that same establishment.) That attitude creates a distinction that the difference between most Democratic candidates and more Republican candidates is nothing, which isn't true.

Well I guess my response to that would be that they could blame Bernie for calling them out or blame themselves for being what he said they were. But I also thought Bernie was very supportive of Hillary after he was out of the race. Surprisingly supportive considering some of the **** the DNC pulled in the primaries. But I always thought he was pretty clear that he believed himself to be the best choice but when he was out, that Hillary had to be President.

 

But anyway... I like Bernie. Him and Kasich and maybe Jeb were the people I felt were running with some sort of principle and a belief system with the goal of helping American citizens. Hillary just gives off the feel that she's running on the motivation of trying to get elected. Trump, of course, is nothing but a disgusting, fat, piece of ****

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PeterMP

PeterMP

Posted
Posted
32 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Well I guess my response to that would be that they could blame Bernie for calling them out or blame themselves for being what he said they were. But I also thought Bernie was very supportive of Hillary after he was out of the race. Surprisingly supportive considering some of the **** the DNC pulled in the primaries. But I always thought he was pretty clear that he believed himself to be the best choice but when he was out, that Hillary had to be President.

 

But anyway... I like Bernie. Him and Kasich and maybe Jeb were the people I felt were running with some sort of principle and a belief system with the goal of helping American citizens. Hillary just gives off the feel that she's running on the motivation of trying to get elected. Trump, of course, is nothing but a disgusting, fat, piece of ****

 

Look, if you are going to comment on it, at least, read the story first.  Otherwise, you are only making yourself look stupid and lazy.

 

"At the Democratic National Convention, Sanders would offer Hillary Clinton a belated and begrudging endorsement. His pledge to campaign for her in the general election only ended up being a handful of rallies in the fall. All the while, he and his wife Jane were giving a wink and a nod to supporters that their support for Clinton wasn’t as genuine as it seemed."

 

I certainly don't want to go back and re-hash the primary with somebody that didn't even bother to read the story that the thread is about.

 

From another source from during the election period:

 

"Bernie Sanders Abandons Clinton in Final Week

Hillary’s free pass from populist primary rival has expired"

 

http://observer.com/2016/11/bernie-sanders-abandons-clinton-in-final-week/

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Zazzaro703

Zazzaro703

Posted
Posted
17 hours ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Bernie >>>> Hillary. What do you want him to do? Not run? If he believes that he can do a better job and that his ideas are better for the country, he should run.

 

There's plenty of blame to go around for Trump. Bernie is way, way, way down the list.

Pretty much this, Bernie isn't really a democrat. Most of the people that like him are people interested in a 3rd party and/or wouldn't have voted for Trump or Clinton. Him not supporting Hillary or making her look bad has not much to do with it, she has done that all on her own for decades. When she lost to Obama, the democrats should have seen the writing on the wall. Hillary didn't deserve to break the ceiling, when we do have our first woman president it will hopefully be someone that has earned it. Not someone that thinks it's their turn or is the best of a terrible bunch. 

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TimmySmith

TimmySmith

Posted
Posted

The superdelegates hijacked the Democratic Primary by making the States irrelevant, then they blame Bernie?   I'll maintain that if Hillary won the nomination in legitimate fashion, she coasts to the Presidency.  The fact that she only had a 95% of doing so, just left too much room for error for the DNC.

 

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LadySkinsFan

LadySkinsFan

Posted
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Posted

Clinton won the primary vote overwhelmingly. She didn't need the superdelegates. Sanders ran as a Democrat, wanted to change the rules after he entered the primary race.

 

If he really wanted to change the primary system, he should have worked within the party. 

 

He signed up for the rules, then bashed them and the party apparatus when he was losing.

 

If the Republicans had a superdelegates system, we probably wouldn't have Trump.

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TimmySmith

TimmySmith

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said:

Clinton won the primary vote overwhelmingly. She didn't need the superdelegates. Sanders ran as a Democrat, wanted to change the rules after he entered the primary race.

If he really wanted to change the primary system, he should have worked within the party. 

The point is not whether she would have won without them, the point is their existence disillusioned enough voters in the general to play a role in Trump's victory.

 

Bernie was shooting at a large. slow moving target.  Read Howard Dean's comments.

 

https://pjmedia.com/trending/2016/03/09/dnc-superdelegate-howard-dean-i-dont-represent-the-people/

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