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Presidential Election:11/3/20- On to Iowa 2/3 & New Hampshire 2/11

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23 hours ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

 

If you want to feel sad about humanity, read the comments to this tweet.

 

This country is so superbly dumb. 

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Lot of people in the comments saying they like Ross more now....

Edited by visionary

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On 8/10/2019 at 8:12 AM, BenningRoadSkin said:

So if Bernie gets the nomination, the latte Democrat won’t vote for him?

 

That's an open question.  Most likely, the vast majority hates Trump more.  Bernie's problem, if he gets the nomination, which doesn't look good, is convincing independents.

10 hours ago, tshile said:

Keep top 5 and move on

 

They should do it like MLB and have the top 5 in, but then have a play-in, head to head, winner moves on to the next round debate just for the next two. 

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41 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

That's an open question.  Most likely, the vast majority hates Trump more.  Bernie's problem, if he gets the nomination, which doesn't look good, is convincing independents.

He had them in 2016 over Clinton. When the primaries were open, he usually won those races.

 

Gotta see how it is today, and we haven't had much on that.

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15 minutes ago, ixcuincle said:

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/08/12/lay-off-joe-bidens-gaffes/

 

Quote

All gaffe coverage is questionable, but in Biden’s case it’s particularly bad, and not only because so many of Biden’s gaffes are mere slips of the tongue (though he commits the other kind of gaffe as well, when you intentionally say something that people take issue with, like noting your past ability to work on legislation with segregationists). When Mitt Romney was caught on tape in 2012 saying that 47 percent of Americans were dependent on government and “I’ll never convince them that they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives,” you could say he was offering some insight about the decisions he’d make as president. What is the latest Biden gaffe supposed to tell us about what sort of president he’d be? Nothing.

 

But now that this frame around Biden’s candidacy is in place, even the most inconsequential of mistakes, like saying he met with Parkland students when he was vice president (he did meet with them, but it was after he left office) prompt entire news stories, like this one and this one and this one and this one.

 

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13 hours ago, No Excuses said:

 

If you want to feel sad about humanity, read the comments to this tweet.

 

This country is so superbly dumb. 

 

Nothing has done more to make me hate humanity than Twitter. Because of the horrible tweets and how easy it is to abuse for propoganda/misinformation purposes  but mainly because people take it seriously like it's reflective of the real world. 

 

20 minutes ago, ixcuincle said:

 

 

Speaking of propoganda/misinformation... 

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All this beating up on Biden is making me come back around because it’s just people reaching for headlines when nothing is there.

 

Good op-Ed piece on WP right now about a black family cookout in NC as a referendum on the current crop of candidates.

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3 minutes ago, Springfield said:

All this beating up on Biden is making me come back around because it’s just people reaching for headlines when nothing is there.

 

 

To me, the media, in particular right-wing media, but also corporate media at large so badly want Biden to be considered the Democratic version of Trump in order to create TV ratings during election season. Not that ratings should be hard to come by anyway, but this was the same kind of stuff they did post-Bush with Obama.  We were coming off a President that couldn't pronounce words, had trouble explaining policy etc etc....so when Obama got in there Fox made it a point to go overboard anytime Obama made a speaking gaffe in order to say "See....they all do it" 

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1 minute ago, NoCalMike said:

 

To me, the media, in particular right-wing media, but also corporate media at large so badly want Biden to be considered the Democratic version of Trump in order to create TV ratings during election season. Not that ratings should be hard to come by anyway, but this was the same kind of stuff they did post-Bush with Obama.  We were coming off a President that couldn't pronounce words, had trouble explaining policy etc etc....so when Obama got in there Fox made it a point to go overboard anytime Obama made a speaking gaffe in order to say "See....they all do it" 

 

Was watching Real Time yesterday.  Bill Maher made a great point regarding past history.  It shouldn’t matter.  Current positions matter.  Kamala Harris, used to be against legalization of marijuana, now she’s for it.  Obama was against gay marriage, then he was for it (thanks to Biden).  Who cares about bussing in 1972.  Who cares about working with segregationists.  None of that stuff matters right now.

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3 minutes ago, Springfield said:

 

Was watching Real Time yesterday.  Bill Maher made a great point regarding past history.  It shouldn’t matter.  Current positions matter.  Kamala Harris, used to be against legalization of marijuana, now she’s for it.  Obama was against gay marriage, then he was for it (thanks to Biden).  Who cares about bussing in 1972.  Who cares about working with segregationists.  None of that stuff matters right now.

 

This is the essential premise of the WaPo article on Biden's gaffes that I posted above.  The main argument is that misstatments don't matter because they don't tell you how a person would govern if elected President in 2020.  

 

Quote

You might argue that Biden’s propensity for gaffes means he’ll receive harsher coverage than some other candidates and that could be a reason for primary voters not to support him, but there’s no particular reason to think that’s true. Had I told you in 2015 that a year later the news media would treat Hillary Clinton’s email management practices as though they were the most critical issue that had faced the United States in decades, you would have said, “They can’t possibly be that stupid.” But they were. If it’s not gaffes, it’ll be something else, and any candidate can be run through that wringer for one reason or another.

 

There are plenty of substantive things to criticize Biden for, and I’ve done so at some length. I think his policy ambitions are too modest, and he has a naive faith that when Trump is gone, he’ll be able to persuade Republicans in Congress to join with him to pass legislation they find abhorrent. Those criticisms, however, are about the kinds of decisions he’d make in the Oval Office and his chances of building a successful presidency. In other words, they matter. The frequency of his gaffes just doesn’t, and no one should pretend otherwise.

 

Edited by PleaseBlitz
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5 minutes ago, Springfield said:

 

Was watching Real Time yesterday.  Bill Maher made a great point regarding past history.  It shouldn’t matter.  Current positions matter.  Kamala Harris, used to be against legalization of marijuana, now she’s for it.  Obama was against gay marriage, then he was for it (thanks to Biden).  Who cares about bussing in 1972.  Who cares about working with segregationists.  None of that stuff matters right now.

 

I agree with him, but saying you did something that isnt true isnt an evolving political stance.  With the VP Parkland comment, hes invoking a memory that did not happen.  Everytime he does that we have to convince ourselves hes not lying it's something else.

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6 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

This is the essential premise of the WaPo article on Biden's gaffes that I posted above.  The main argument is that misstatments don't matter because they don't tell you how a person would govern if elected President in 2020.  

 

 

 

Saw that article but hadn’t had time to check it out yet.

 

I will say that, connected to the point you bolder, any other more progressive candidate will also have trouble passing any legislation.  It’s a MUST that we get Moscow Mitch out of the Senate... at the least.

 

1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I agree with him, but saying you did something that isnt true isnt an evolving political stance.  With the VP Parkland comment, hes invoking a memory that did not happen.  Everytime he does that we have to convince ourselves hes not lying it's something else.

 

I mean, there’s been so MANY.  Who cares if he slips up between Columbine and Parkland.  (Half joking)

Edited by Springfield

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17 minutes ago, Springfield said:

 

Was watching Real Time yesterday.  Bill Maher made a great point regarding past history.  It shouldn’t matter.  Current positions matter.  Kamala Harris, used to be against legalization of marijuana, now she’s for it.  Obama was against gay marriage, then he was for it (thanks to Biden).  Who cares about bussing in 1972.  Who cares about working with segregationists.  None of that stuff matters right now.

 

I watched that episode of Real Time as well.

 

I agree to a certain extent. The problem with applying that to Kamala Harris was her being "anti-marijuana" wasn't just an opinion or thought she had in her head.  It affected lives, it put people in jail, and kept them there.  To me that goes beyond a verbal gaffe or simply changing your mind....unless she can show that she has since worked to exonerate all the folks she had a hand in putting into prison for minor drug offenses.

Edited by NoCalMike
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11 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I agree with him, but saying you did something that isnt true isnt an evolving political stance.  With the VP Parkland comment, hes invoking a memory that did not happen.  Everytime he does that we have to convince ourselves hes not lying it's something else.

 

He did meet with the Parkland kids, he just did it after he left office.  So he messed up the date, he didn't invoke a memory that did not happen (so who cares).  He also met with the families of countless mass shootings while he was VP.  I doubt I could keep all of those straight.  

 

At least their aren't pictures of him with the surviving victims grinning like an asshole and giving a thumbsup.  

Edited by PleaseBlitz
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3 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

 

I agree to a certain extent. The problem with applying that to Kamala Harris was her being "anti-marijuana" wasn't just an opinion or thought she had in her head.  It affected lives, it put people in jail, and kept them there.  To me that goes beyond a verbal gaffe or simply changing your mind....unless she can show that she has since worked to exonerate all the folks she had a hand in putting into prison for minor drug offenses.

 

That's tough, because when Obama finally flipped on gay marriage and removed dont ask dont tell, there was barely a mermer from Dems about it it felt like.  People were being thrown out the military for being gay.

 

And I'm not sure what to expect Kamela to do as a senator compared to the powers she had as AG of Cali.  If I'm not mistaken, she's on board with retroactively removing time related to marijuana charges that some states have already started doing, like Cali.

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12 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

He did meet with the Parkland kids, he just did it after he left office.  So he messed up the date, he didn't invoke a memory that did not happen (so who cares).  He also met with the families of countless mass shootings while he was VP.  I doubt I could keep all of those straight.  

 

At least their aren't pictures of him with the surviving victims grinning like an asshole and giving a thumbsup.  

 

In all fairness, you arent running for president, so I wouldnt expect you to. Words from president and VPs matter, or at least they used to.

 

Theres a level of context that goes into visiting shooting victims as a private citizen versus vice-president of the United States that the cynic in me is having trouble brushing aside.  If Trump said that we'd immediately assume hes intentionally lying, if Obama said that Fox would try to convince people hes lying, but Biden? Oh he jus misremembering : /

 

We are making excuses ahead of time because of reality hes likely to be the nominee, I would not be shocked if when he gets overtaken in the polls all the excuses to try to protect him stop, as they should.  I dont support trying to prop him because hes most likely to be the nominee, he should not be the nominee and we all know it.

Edited by Renegade7
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1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

 

In all fairness, you arent running for president, so I wouldnt expect you to. 

 

Theres a level of context that goes into visiting shooting victims as a private citizen versus vice-president of the United States that the cynic in me is having trouble brushing aside.  If Trump said that we'd immediately assume hes intentionally lying, if Obama said that Fox would try to convince people hes lying, but Biden? Oh he jus misremembering : /

 

We are making excuses ahead of time because of reality hes likely to be the nominee, I would not be shocked if when he gets overtaken in the polls all the excuses to try to protect him stop, as they should.  I dont support trying to prop him because hes most likely to be the nominee, he should not be the nominee and we all know it.

 

The bold part, I think, is the key thing.  If Trump said it, we'd assume he's lying because he always lies.  The Obama/Fox thing doesn't really matter because Fox isn't a legitimate purveyor of news.  When Biden does it, it's fairly safe to assume he just misspoke because he has a long history of misspeaking.  The difference is the level of intent, of maliciousness, between those 2 things.  Trump lying is intentionally meant to mislead, it's not an accident.  Biden misspeaking is a lot less malicious and it doesn't tell you much about what he'd try to do as President.  Yes, he's just misremembering a date.  It happens.

 

This isn't coming from a place that I feel Biden needs to be protected.  The fact that he's prone to saying things wrong should get priced in.  He's not my first (or second) choice for the nomination.   I just don't think this type of thing matters very much because it doesn't say much about him other than his internal filter sucks, and always has. 

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truepundit.com is an actual fake news website (and by fake news I mean hoaxes, not "journalism that I dislike").

 

It was the 'source' of the claim that Clinton asked "can't we just drone this guy?" about Julian Assange. Complete BS but soon enough it's treated as fact in Fox-land and unfortunately in the more conspiracy-friendly parts of Bernieworld. 

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