Presidential Election: 11/3/20 ---Now the President Elect Joe Biden Thread

[PleaseBlitz]

Just now, visionary said:

Joe Biden and the Biden campaign.

 

I figured he meant "one-term" bridge President.  Every President is a bridge to the future.  

[Renegade7]

24 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

The Bernie agenda is Democratic Socialism.  They are the same thing.  

 

 

Democratic Socialsm and Progressivism aren't the same thing, I talked about this in the AOC thread.  My generation has to understand we don't have to get rid of capitalism to deal with climate change, police reform, affordable housing, etc.  I think we get that, why we see progressive candidates winning that aren't DSA members.

 

24 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

Well this is confusing.  Bernie's plan is Universal Health Care by way of Medicare for All.  https://berniesanders.com/issues/medicare-for-all/

 

There's an entire thread dedicated to other countries achieving universal healthcare with plans different them medicare for all. MFA is just one way to do it, let's keep that debate there.

 

24 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

A very vocal minority has claimed that Biden is a bridge president and it's politics, people complain.  The fact of the matter is Biden won the Dem primary in a rout.  It was effectively over before Super Tuesday even happened.  He won two and half times the delegates Bernie and Warren won combined.  

 

Biden is rewritting his platform ideals to better match the people he beat to make sure their voters vote for him. How many people have you met that said this was strictly about getting rid of Trump and Biden gave us the best chance, you really not buying that being real?  It was best chance to beat Trump and Socialism, we should be never been put into that type of false choice, but that's what happened.

 

24 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

I mean, policies still matter, especially in the Dem primary where Trump isn't running.  People hate Trump because he is a dumb asshole, but they also hate his policies and want to go a different route, but they have specific opinions on what that route looks like.  

 

Trump doesn't have any policy except pwning people and stroking his ego. Ask him, that's his answer. Some folks love that ****, most don't anymore.

 

24 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

I'm not sure how you can not buy the notion that the far-left progressive agenda was rejected.  Just look at the results.  There was one pure progressive (Bernie) and one progressive that couches her ideas in capitalism (Warren).  Combined, they won 1,136 delegates.  Biden alone won 2,627.  Biden got nearly twice as many votes as Bernie, 17.6 million to 9.3 million.  

 

 

24 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

As far as meeting Bernie folks halfway, that's just big tent politics.  Biden knows he needs votes from people that are far more progressive than him, so he's doing things to bring them into the fold.  It's smart.  Once he (hopefully) becomes President, he'll get passed what he thinks he can get passed, just like every President ever.  That is how our system of government is designed and Biden has been in that arena for forever.  Where Rdskins2000 goes wrong is when he says "Biden will have trouble from Getting all the Dems agreeing on things on the progressive agenda."  Biden is not going to try to pass "the progressive agenda" he's going to try to pass the Biden agenda, which is the most progressive agenda ever for a Presidential candidate, but not close to the Bernie agenda.  If the far left doesn't support it, they are shooting themselves in the foot.  

 

This idea of only getting done the bare minimum to stay in power is why we are here right now. Biden treats these issues seriously, the House is waiting for someone to sign their bills, they get the moment.  This is moon landing, new deal time, not hold the fort time.  Dems will pay dearly if they try to just placate folks with pandemic and depression taking over.

[goskins10]

36 minutes ago, DCranon21 said:

 

The problem with Kentucky and other states surrounding Kentucky that is very conservative. It's gerrymandered so bad, it's geared for McConnell and Paul and any GOP'er Presidential candidate to win every election, no matter how strong the contender is. They only have 6 districts. 5 of them have GOP representation, where 1 district is Dem. I bet you can guess that city. McConnell or Paul will have a seat for life. Their governor, who is a Dem, barely won their gubernatorial election. Think he won barely by a percentage point. I don't see a path towards winning that seat in Kentucky or Graham's seat in South Carolina. Have to win the seats that are toss up. 

 

https://www.270towin.com/2020-house-election/states/kentucky

 

Did you get a chance to watch the video? The point they make is NOT that KY is actually in play. It's that McGrath is out raising him to the point they can maybe make mitch stay home more and not be able to campaign as much in the states that are up for grabs. 

 

I would not be so sure about Graham's seat. Is statistically tied with Harrison as of last night. That would be a huge get. 

 

 

[PleaseBlitz]

35 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Democratic Socialsm and Progressivism aren't the same thing, I talked about this in the AOC thread.  My generation has to understand we don't have to get rid of capitalism to deal with climate change, police reform, affordable housing, etc.  I think we get that, why we see progressive candidates winning that aren't DSA members.

 

I did not say Democratic Socialsm and Progressivism are the same thing, I said "the Bernie agenda is Democratic Socialism."  Progessivism is a scale.  By all accounts, Biden has the most progressive campaign platform of any major party nominee ever.  Democratic Socialism is the far left end of that scale.  I agree with you that we don't have to get rid of capitalism to deal with any of our issues.  

 

 

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There's an entire thread dedicated to other countries achieving universal healthcare with plans different them medicare for all. MFA is just one way to do it, let's keep that debate there.

 

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Biden is rewritting his platform ideals to better match the people he beat to make sure their voters vote for him. How many people have you met that said this was strictly about getting rid of Trump and Biden gave us the best chance, you really not buying that being real?  It was best chance to beat Trump and Socialism, we should be never been put into that type of false choice, but that's what happened.

 

Oh, I definitely think that this election is about getting rid of Trump.  I'm saying that the Dem electorate overwhelmingly felt that Biden was the best candidate to do that, for many reasons.  One of those reasons is that his policy agenda was the most in line with the electorate's views.  And because he won by such a huge margin, there will be very little pressure on him to follow the far left's wishes because he was elected by relative moderates.  Even the relative moderates in the Dem camp (like me) want to enact progressive policies (increase taxes on the rich, increase healthcare coverage, move to clean engergy, etc etc etc) but stopping far short of socialism (e.g., totally free college for everyone, forced government healthcare, etc.).  

 

 

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Trump doesn't have any policy except pwning people and stroking his ego. Ask him, that's his answer. Some folks love that ****, most don't anymore.

 

 

 

 

This idea of only getting done the bare minimum to stay in power is why we are here right now. Biden treats these issues seriously, the House is waiting for someone to sign their bills, they get the moment.  This is moon landing, new deal time, not hold the fort time.  Dems will pay dearly if they try to just placate folks with pandemic and depression taking over.

 

I can't see tweets on my work network, but I agree with you that Trump is entirely concerned with his own ego which, turns out, is maybe the worst possible characteristic for a President to have.  

 

And I very much agree that Dems have a once-in-a-generation chance here to enact huge changes (if we win the Senate), and I hope we do.  Biden's Build Back Better platform is historic and I am a huge fan. I also think he is uniquely qualified to get a lot of it done, but he won't get everything because the GOP probably won't work with him in good faith unless they truly get their asses kicked.   If the far left is not on board, then they are actively hindering their own goals.  

[The Evil Genius]

5 hours ago, techboy said:

 

There's some truth to this, and it caused me to reflect this morning... As in so many things, California was a forerunner of trends in the rest of the country. I remember @Predictotalking about how he'd LIKE to vote for a more fiscally conservative candidate, but the Republicans starting with Pete Wilson and the anti-immigrant Propositions had gone off the deep end, and now a state that once brought the country Ronald Reagan is so deep blue that Republican presidential candidates don't really even campaign much there.

 

I gew up in Virginia Beach under Pat Robertson's thumb in the 1980s and early 90s. I was a liberal who stuck out. I stuck out even more in Morgantown in the mid to late 90s. Then I moved to NorCal and got a reality check (even in what's considered a somewhat moderate Sacramento area). I now live in the East Bay (SF adjacent 😆) and I can tell you I've grown more liberal since 1999. And yet, I'm not close to SF liberal. That was my point about Predicto...he could be 100% socially liberal but its not enough for SF politics. Statewide yeah..but not The City. They politics are generally left of Bernie level liberal...even if all the property is currently over a mil or two. 

[@DCGoldPants]

 

 

 

 

[PleaseBlitz]

 

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Looks like the Lincoln Project is dropping bangers each day.

[DCranon21]

16 minutes ago, @SkinsGoldPants said:

 

 

 

 

 

So let me get this one straight. Get Kanye on the ballot and he takes away the Black vote from Biden from different states that are in play. This will be a disaster lol

[88Comrade2000]

 

Biden hits back at reporter asking if he took a cognitive test: ‘Are you a junkie?’  

 

 

"Come on man" is so irritating.   Joe won this exchange, I think.  

[DCranon21]

Oh this is something we should monitor lol

 

 

[TheDoyler23]

6 minutes ago, DCranon21 said:

 

So let me get this one straight. Get Kanye on the ballot and he takes away the Black vote from Biden from different states that are in play. This will be a disaster lol

 

I mean, what happens when he takes votes away from Trump instead? A re-election cycle is a referendum on the president and people picking 'Not-Trump' probably aren't going to vote for a guaranteed loss. And the people saying "lol, i'm going to vote for Kanye" probably weren't going to vote in the first place. 

[PleaseBlitz]

3 minutes ago, TheDoyler23 said:

 

I mean, what happens when he takes votes away from Trump instead? A re-election cycle is a referendum on the president and people picking 'Not-Trump' probably aren't going to vote for a guaranteed loss. And the people saying "lol, i'm going to vote for Kanye" probably weren't going to vote in the first place. 

 

From what I've seen, he takes votes away from Trump.  This poll is almost a month old though:

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/507266-kanye-west-gets-2-percent-in-national-presidential-poll

 

National Poll:
Biden 48% (+8)
Trump 40%
Jorgensen (L) 1%
Hawkins (G) 1%

 

When @kanyewest included in the poll:
Biden 48% (+9)
Trump 39%
West 2%
Jorgensen (L) 2%
Hawkins (G) 1%

 

 

[visionary]

 

[Captain Wiggles]

I'd bet good money Trump doesn't know how to even start a car.

[visionary]

 

[visionary]

 

 

 

 

[Renegade7]

2 hours ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

I did not say Democratic Socialsm and Progressivism are the same thing, I said "the Bernie agenda is Democratic Socialism."  Progessivism is a scale.  By all accounts, Biden has the most progressive campaign platform of any major party nominee ever.  Democratic Socialism is the far left end of that scale.  I agree with you that we don't have to get rid of capitalism to deal with any of our issues.  

 

 

This conversation is going to continue for a very long time, my point that Bernie's agenda wasn't rejected, trying to get it through democratic socialism was.  So any of the issues he raised people wanted address, just not at the expense of capitalism.

 

I wish that thread wasn't archived, but so much of he wanted to address wasn't actually democratic socialism.  Think about it, what industry did he say during 2016 or 2020 that he wanted the government to replace the means of production besides health insurance coverage?

 

What he proposed, and why he got as far as he did, was addressing the social welfare situation in this country similarly to countries like Canada or in the EU if for any reason because the need was here and so was the money to do it.

 

Him framing it as a revolution was the reminder that he would keep going beyond that and come after capitalism itself, the party has moved to the left regarding social welfare reform, but not at the expense of capitalism, and not for a man allienates people that aren't as passionate about this as he is.

 

There are some in DSA that don't think he's as much of a socialist as people think he is, I agree with that analysis because I never once remember him on stage encouraging companies to embrace ideas like this even though he definitely wanted it (I don't think he had time to because of defending MFA so much):

 

https://www.vox.com/2019/5/29/18643032/bernie-sanders-communist-manifesto-employee-ownership-jobs

 

I don't remember any time I came on here to have to talk about or debate this, so did we really reject democratic socialism or Bernie himself and the price tag for how he wanted to address the same issues Biden is going to come after?

 

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Oh, I definitely think that this election is about getting rid of Trump.  I'm saying that the Dem electorate overwhelmingly felt that Biden was the best candidate to do that, for many reasons.  One of those reasons is that his policy agenda was the most in line with the electorate's views.  And because he won by such a huge margin, there will be very little pressure on him to follow the far left's wishes because he was elected by relative moderates.  Even the relative moderates in the Dem camp (like me) want to enact progressive policies (increase taxes on the rich, increase healthcare coverage, move to clean engergy, etc etc etc) but stopping far short of socialism (e.g., totally free college for everyone, forced government healthcare, etc.).  

 

 

Begs the question: what is the far left?

 

I think its democratic socialism, because a lot of stuff that was "far left"10 years ago is now what Europe and Canada have already been doing, so whats taking US so long?  

 

Poll after poll shows majority approval for universal healthcare, so many countries have that thats a huge reason i don't think its radical or far left..  in a global pandemic kicking our ass, it all the suddem sounds like a good idea.

 

UBI isn't going to seem too crazy with extended UI and folks talking about continous stimulus checks to get through the coming depression.

 

Agree a lot of people started to gawk at the MFA price tag and take public option more seriously, but I don't believe that was ever a fair debate because the cost of the public option was never discussed, just the price of MFA.

 

This year has moved so fast that as soon we finish anything to get rid of Trump, its already mixing with anything to get through this multi-prong disaster that is 2020.  All the sudden folks are talking about Bernie and Warrens ideas differently, and they will once the existential threat is gone and we are in "now what" territory. 

 

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I can't see tweets on my work network, but I agree with you that Trump is entirely concerned with his own ego which, turns out, is maybe the worst possible characteristic for a President to have.  

 

It was a scene from a Fox News town hall with Bernie where the host asked the room if they wanted MFA (expecting boos), and got cheers with nearly everyones hand up. Some talk of who was in the room, but that was Fox trying to make a point and it backfired, conservatives had no choice but to demonize it best the could to turn their own polls around.

 

https://www.vox.com/2019/4/15/18323347/bernie-sanders-town-hall-fox-news-bret-baier

 

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And I very much agree that Dems have a once-in-a-generation chance here to enact huge changes (if we win the Senate), and I hope we do.  Biden's Build Back Better platform is historic and I am a huge fan. I also think he is uniquely qualified to get a lot of it done, but he won't get everything because the GOP probably won't work with him in good faith unless they truly get their asses kicked.   If the far left is not on board, then they are actively hindering their own goals.  

 

I think I need clarification on if you or others believe far left and progressives are the same thing.  I don't, but he reached out to the backers of the New Green Deal best he could and it was welcome from my understanding.

 

How Joe Biden’s surprisingly ambitious climate plan came together
By Brady Dennis and Dino Grandoni

https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/how-joe-bidens-surprisingly-ambitious-climate-plan-came-together/2020/07/31/b73e78d0-cd11-11ea-91f1-28aca4d833a0_story.html

 

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The campaign also convened a climate task force led by two very different Democratic archetypes: John F. Kerry, the patrician 76-year-old former secretary of state and 2004 presidential nominee, and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, the 30-year-old first term congresswoman from a working-class Bronx district who had endorsed Sanders and helped craft the Green New Deal.

 

[visionary]

From what I've seen online, a lot of the left is not a fan of Biden, and get pissed off every time his campaign puts out any new policy ideas, seeing them as worse than nothing and little more than scraps to appease them in order to quiet them down so the 'establishment' can go back to status quo.  Some will vote reluctantly for Biden, as an evil but not as evil as Trump, others will write in or do something else, and some will wait to see how things look in their state come time to vote.  Also the far reaches of the left seem to have moved more and more to anarchism than socialism, and even the mainstream left (not liberals, which is a dirty word these days for people deemed too moderate or 'neoliberal') seem to want to take America somewhere beyond what Europe has done.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

1 hour ago, Rdskns2000 said:

 

Biden hits back at reporter asking if he took a cognitive test: ‘Are you a junkie?’ 

 

"Come on man" is so irritating.   Joe won this exchange, I think.  

 

If he did, he did just barely.

 

"I am willing to let the American public judge my physical menphi...uh, my physical as well as my mental phys--phys--my fitness.."

[Renegade7]

27 minutes ago, visionary said:

From what I've seen online, a lot of the left is not a fan of Biden, and get pissed off every time his campaign puts out any new policy ideas, seeing them as worse than nothing and little more than scraps to appease them in order to quiet them down so the 'establishment' can go back to status quo.  Some will vote reluctantly for Biden, as an evil but not as evil as Trump, others will write in or do something else, and some will wait to see how things look in their state come time to vote.  Also the far reaches of the left seem to have moved more and more to anarchism than socialism, and even the mainstream left (not liberals, which is a dirty word these days for people deemed too moderate or 'neoliberal') seem to want to take America somewhere beyond what Europe has done.

 

Aye, this subreddit is starting to get on my good side:

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Enough_Sanders_Spam/top/?t=all

 

Hey, I'm not going to front, I voted for him in 2020 (not 2016) because I'm burned out looking for candidates that I can relate vs folks that will push for as much change as they can and let the middle bring them down from there.  Starting at the middle or bottom won't bring down my healthcare costs.  I wouldn't voted Warren if she didn't start to waver on her timeline, I don't have time or patience for anything expect ASAP or definitive timelines on this issue now.

 

I tried voting for pure logic and experience with Hillary in 2016 primaries and I ended up with Trump instead.  I'm still having trouble processing all of this, I can vote, but that still doesn't mean I get what I need or want from my own government I'm paying taxes to, this keeps happening.

 

And honestly, Bernie wants to save the world, but he's an asshole.  A lot of his followers are as well, and like you noted aren't actually socialist but anarchists (felt this way for a while now).  America is collective asking for a break from assholes being in power with democrats doing a better job of being consistent with that despite what the candidates are proposing:

 

 

 

I try to deal in odds and percentages when gauging what I'm acutally up against, people are more likely to be assholes in the internet then in person if for any reason they aren't afraid of getting punched in the face behind a keyboard.  People like Bill Maher keep saying over any over again that candidates should stop being afraid of Twitter when its not a majority of the country.  None of my close friends or family are on twitter, for example.

7 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

If he did, he did just barely.

 

"I am willing to let the American public judge my physical menphi...uh, my physical as well as my mental phys--phys--my fitness.."

 

He's always had a speech impediment he's tried to compensate for, even I've had to accept that's not the same thing.

[visionary]

9 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

If he did, he did just barely.

 

"I am willing to let the American public judge my physical menphi...uh, my physical as well as my mental phys--phys--my fitness.."

That sounds like a pretty typical stutter.  

[Califan007 The Constipated]

1 minute ago, visionary said:

That sounds like a pretty typical stutter.  

 

Does he have a stutter?...If so, I never knew he did.

 

For the record, it didn't come across as a stutter to me. It came across as getting "physical" and "fitness" screwed up...closer to a spoonerism than a stutter.

[visionary]

2 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

Does he have a stutter?...If so, I never knew he did.

 

For the record, it didn't come across as a stutter to me. It came across as getting "physical" and "fitness" screwed up...closer to a spoonerism than a stutter.

Maybe.  I've had speech (not stuttering though) issues since I was a kid, but I also have trouble remembering some words or names and getting them out sometimes in recent years.  

[visionary]