ESPN will be doing a 30 for 30 on the 87 Redskins

[Hazel-Ra]

19 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

Chase Daniel, Jabar Gaffney, and Trent Green wore number 10. All excellent choices. Totally. Absolutely.

 

Yikes... if nothing else I think I actually attended a game that Gaffney played in (WSH @ SEA 2011).

[DM72]

31 minutes ago, Taylor 36 said:

When has Dan Snyder EVER shied away from spending money?  There are a lot of things fans can **** and complain about when it comes to Snyder, but spending money is definitely not one of them.  If anything, this piece shows that JKC was a cheap ass, but I know it's blasphemy for people to say anything about Cooke's wrong doings and mishandlings as an owner.  He wouldn't buy the replacements rings and he bought fake ass rings for members of his staff.  I don't want to divert this thread, but Hell, he wouldn't even give his son or anyone else in his own family the team when he died, and instead left it to go on the market.  Snyder never owns the team if it wasn't for JKC.

 

There's no question that Snyder will spend money to make money. But is he willing to spend the money to right a wrong from 30 years ago where it's not going to produce any net gains?

 

I hope he does, but we'll see.

[Dissident2]

2 hours ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

The Jets game was my first Redskins game. It was a blast. I remember as a wide-eyed 10-year old feeling so sad that people were chanting for the scabs...hahaha. 

 

People need to remember stuff like that when they complain about fans booing today. "You're not a real fan if you ever boo." "Back in the old days, that didn't happen." LOL. 

 

Here's a team that had been to 3 NFC Championship games and 2 Super Bowls over the previous 5 years and fans were chanting for the "scabs" their first game back when they were down by 13 points. Excellence was simply expected back then. Because it was so often achieved. 

[c slag]

Who was the better quarterback 

If you had to choose between 

Jay Schroeder or Kirk Cousins 

[zoony]

Does anyone know when this will be on again?

[jjpomeroy]

2 hours ago, zoony said:

Does anyone know when this will be on again?

 You can watch it anytime via the ESPN App

http://www.espn.com/watch/roadblock?id=3168431

[LaxBuddy21]

I just streamed it on demand. Very well done. Also watched the 30 for 30 short about the sting operation using fake Redskins tickets. Enjoyed both. 

[Rufus T Firefly]

Very well done. Two thoughts on the events:

 

1. Not hatred for the replacement players, but they were scabs. The idea that they weren't because they really wanted to play football, or because the NFL players earned enough money (not to mention that a lot of players in those days weren't really making that much) doesn't cut it. They chose to cross a picket line and cheaply do the jobs of union players. That's what scabs do. 

 

2. At the same time, if players are going to deny them benefits and heap vitriol on them, why not the players who crossed the line? No one thought of stripping Montana, Dorsett or Taylor of anything, but they crossed the line and did more damage to the union than any of the scabs did.

[armstrong001]

I thought it was funny that they were defending not giving the scabs rings because they only got so much money from the league to buy rings, and that the NFL wasn't going to give them money for a whole second set of rings.  Oh, really?  And there was no other source of money to make that happen?  I feel bad for the guys that sometimes wish it didn't happen.  They should be just as proud of their accomplishments that season and their contribution to the Super Bowl win as the regular players.  Especially beating the Cowboys the way they did.  

 

I think it would be cool to put them up in the Ring of Fame similar to what Kentucky Basketball did for the "Unforgettables" in 91-92.  It wouldn't have to be each name, but maybe "1987 Replacements" or something.  Especially when it seems like the regular players from that team have softened their stance against those guys.  If they can't get a ring, putting them up among the Redskins greats for their part in a championship would be neat gesture.

[pjfootballer]

What gets to me is how bad Gene Upshaw "botched" this player strike and didn't accomplish anything, yet stayed on another 20 years as the NFLPA Rep.  How in the world did the players keep voting him in?  The only reason he didn't continue is because he passed away.

 

This was 1987 and I think one of the captions said he served from 1983 to 2008.  I mean, if I'm a player and he didn't do squat for the union, time to get a new rep.

[LightningBuggs]

12 hours ago, c slag said:

Who was the better quarterback 

If you had to choose between 

Jay Schroeder or Kirk Cousins 

 

It's close but gotta give it to Jay.  He did get the Skins to the '86 NFC Championship game with a monster year.  And he was pretty darn good when he had to come in cold for Joe T. in '85.  Too bad he was arrogant and not liked by his teammates.  He could have had a longer run here.

[MarkB452]

17 hours ago, hawgboy said:

Does anyone remember if any of the Replacements wore the number 10 while Schroeder was striking?

 

As I recall, the Redskins went to great efforts to make sure that as few as possible of the replacement players had jersey numbers of players who were on the 1987 roster.   I remember reading that one of the replacement players on the Cardinals was the brother of one of the Cardinals players on strike and they issued him his brother's jersey.......Just checked:  Pete and Niko Noga shared the same jersey number.

 

BTW, it looks like Gary Clark's 84 got reissued as did a few others.  You can sort on the jersey number column on the roster.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/was/1987_roster.htm

 

 

 

 

[Jacoby66forHOF]

I watched it last night.  Nice memory jogger since I was 11 at the time.  

 

The most interesting, and surprising, thing I learned from watching it was Gibbs complete dodge when he was asked if the Scabs should get super bowl rings.  That was more disappointing than surprising actually.  Especially after how the Scabs interviewed kept talking about how great a coach Gibbs was, how Gibbs pumped them up and encouraged them, that Gibbs cared.  Well, how much did Gibbs really care about those guys beyond them getting him 3 wins in 1987?  Not enough to lobby his adoptive son Dan Snyder to get those guys Super Bowl rings.

 

So my main take away is that my current opinion of Gibbs, the one developed after witnessing the Gibbs Part Duh ear (2004-2007), is confirmed.  That he is just a very good, great even, football coach that got to the HOF because of the team built, and maintained, by Bobby Beathard.  Not the God like figure of my youth.  Oh well.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

14 hours ago, Dissident2 said:

 

People need to remember stuff like that when they complain about fans booing today. "You're not a real fan if you ever boo." "Back in the old days, that didn't happen." LOL. 

 

Here's a team that had been to 3 NFC Championship games and 2 Super Bowls over the previous 5 years and fans were chanting for the "scabs" their first game back when they were down by 13 points. Excellence was simply expected back then. Because it was so often achieved. 

We were only down by 9. I think we fell behind 16-7 and needed a short TD pass and late FG to take the lead. I also think I remember the Jets getting close enough to attempt a pretty long-shot GW FG that didn't come close. 

[pjfootballer]

Noticed a couple more things also:

 

Henry Waechter- DT was on our roster.  He is credited with scoring a safety for the 85 Bears in their SB against NE.

 

I thought our regular players acted like complete asses if you ask me.  It was great that they were the only team that didn't have one player cross the picket line, but threating and breaking windows was low class.  If you want to picket, then picket.  You want to shout, then shout.  Leave the physical stuff out of  it.

[Hazel-Ra]

7 hours ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

Very well done. Two thoughts on the events:

 

1. Not hatred for the replacement players, but they were scabs. The idea that they weren't because they really wanted to play football, or because the NFL players earned enough money (not to mention that a lot of players in those days weren't really making that much) doesn't cut it. They chose to cross a picket line and cheaply do the jobs of union players. That's what scabs do.

 

Very true... and that kept going through my mind as I watched it. I don't blame the Regulars for being hostile at the time, but I personally, and we as a society have forgiven or at least moved past others who have done way worse in our lives. It seems even the Regulars who contributed to the doc have softened as time has passed so maybe the time is right for a reconciliation.

[pjfootballer]

50 minutes ago, Jacoby66forHOF said:

So my main take away is that my current opinion of Gibbs, the one developed after witnessing the Gibbs Part Duh ear (2004-2007), is confirmed.  That he is just a very good, great even, football coach that got to the HOF because of the team built, and maintained, by Bobby Beathard.  Not the God like figure of my youth.  Oh well.

 

I know it's your opinion, but I'd disagree.  Gibbs in his 2nd stint didn't have the passion as he did the first time around, yet produced better results then any of the coaches (Petitbone, Norv, Schotty and Spurrier) before him.  The 2nd time around, the rules of the game and rosters had changed so much.  I think he did the best he could and came back because he loves the team so much.  He did it out of the goodness of his heart.  We as a fan base probably expected WAY too much the 2nd time around, but we'd seen the mountaintop the first time.

 

Great coach and DESERVED of the HOF. Look at his playoff record when he retired.  I believe Lombardi was only better at that time. You say Beathard gave him a great roster, but you don't mention Gibbs winning SBs with 3 different QBs, none of which are in the HOF.  His offensive innovations to the game, some of which are still used today. And his ability to change the offense, adapt the game plan and make adjustments is COACHING.  Period.  There were many times we were down at halftime, but he was the master of halftime adjustments.  Under the first SB, he recognized we couldn't be "Air Coryell" and adapted the offense to the running game and the Hogs.  In the 2nd SB, he took out George Rogers (Riggins type) against the Broncos and used the speed of Smith to basically "outrun" the smaller Denver defense.  He used Rypien's arm and ability to be deadly accurate with deep throws in 91. 

 

If you can't see what I just wrote as proof of him being a great coach, then you'll never be convinced.  He was one of the greatest.  He deserves to be mentioned with Lombardi, Shula, Landry, Belichick, Halas, etc.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I guess I'm on an island in here in regards to the scabs.  I think it's a great story and that it's really cool these guys got the opportunity to lace them up and play *professional football for a few weeks.  The game they won in Dallas being the pinnacle.  They have great stories to tell for the rest of their lives.  With that said, they didn't win the Super Bowl, they merely contributed to a Super Bowl winning season that will forever be plagued with an asterisk due to circumstances that made them eligible to play in the first place.  Sure, it would be a nice gesture to give them Super Bowl rings, but by no means do I think it's a given that they deserve them.  I actually found it sad that the one guy went to the lengths of making his own.  30 years later the dude looked like he had never gotten over it. 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

8 hours ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

 

2. At the same time, if players are going to deny them benefits and heap vitriol on them, why not the players who crossed the line? No one thought of stripping Montana, Dorsett or Taylor of anything, but they crossed the line and did more damage to the union than any of the scabs did.

This is a great, great point. 

 

Players who didn't fold should view the regulars who crossed much more harshly than the scabs. 

16 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I guess I'm on an island in here in regards to the scabs.  I think it's a great story and that it's really cool these guys got the opportunity to lace them up and play *professional football for a few weeks.  The game they won in Dallas being the pinnacle.  They have great stories to tell for the rest of their lives.  With that said, they didn't win the Super Bowl, they merely contributed to a Super Bowl winning season that will forever be plagued with an asterisk due to circumstances that made them eligible to play in the first place.  Sure, it would be a nice gesture to give them Super Bowl rings, but by no means do I think it's a given that they deserve them.  I actually found it sad that the one guy went to the lengths of making his own.  30 years later the dude looked like he had never gotten over it. 

 

I think on the surface you are right. The difference is that a player on a NFL roster for 3-4 weeks of a Super Bowl season DOES get a ring (I think). If this was treated the same way, I don't think anyone would care. 

 

I'm with you though - I'm not personally bothered by it. I don't think a team has any obligation to hand out 2x as many rings. 

[MarkB452]

32 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

They have great stories to tell for the rest of their lives.  With that said, they didn't win the Super Bowl, they merely contributed to a Super Bowl winning season

 

...as did Mark Rypien (who was inactive the whole year) as well as the secretaries, equipment guys, etc, etc, etc. who all got rings.

 

If they lost all of those games, the Skins would have finished 8-7 as would have the Cowboys and Cardinals with the Iggles and Giants at 7-8.

http://www.footballdb.com/standings/index.html?lg=NFL&yr=1987

.....not sure how the tie breakers would have worked out...we would have been 1-1 vs. Dallas as well as St Louis and Dallas and St Louis would have been 1-1 vs. each other...might have lost it on the division tie breaker to Dallas (5-3) with Skins and Cardinals at 4-4

 

BTW, box score for the Dallas game:

http://www.footballdb.com/games/boxscore.html?gid=1987101901

 

 

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

35 minutes ago, MarkB452 said:

 

...as did Mark Rypien (who was inactive the whole year) as well as the secretaries, equipment guys, etc, etc, etc. who all got rings.

 

I get your point.

 

What I would say to that though is at the company I work for, one of the largest financial institutions in the world, we hire a lot of temporary help, or more commonly referred to as managed resources.  Sometimes these folks are on contracts for up to 12 months.  They perform the same duties as the folks sitting beside them that are actual employees of the company.  These temps get absolutely nothing.  I can't so much as give them a slice of pizza if I buy lunch for the team. 

 

My point being is that the scab players were not looked at as employees of the Washington Redskins.  Casserly was on the other day explaining where they even found these guys and it was a hodge podge process to say the least that pained everyone to even have to do it.  The players were there for three weeks.  The secretaries, equipment guys and everyone else were legit employees of the Washington Redskins, most likely for many years, the entire season and into the future.

 

While I appreciate the efforts of the scab players, it's hard to put a lot of legitimacy into what transpired during those 3 weeks in the season.  Those guys got an opportunity for their 3 days in the sun, the owners got to stick it to the actual players that the show would go on without them.  I'm not opposed to throwing them a bone and giving them a ring just because it feels good to do, but I'm not sure why it's seen as coldhearted that they weren't given them to begin with.

[Hail4Life]

Just watched it this morning and thought it was great. I was a young 7 year old at the time so i dont remember the strike stuff, just the playoffs and superbowl, so it was an interesting watch.

[pjfootballer]

They should get rings.  Here are my reasons:

 

1. They played in 3 games.  Those games are in the "Official" record book of the NFL as a "played NFL game" by the Washington Redskins.

 

2.  If you look up the 1987 Washington Redskins official roster (Pro Football Reference.com) both the regular players and replacement players are listed, along with games played and their stats.

 

3. They had "official" contracts with the league.  The contracts didn't say anything about being "temps, scabs or replacement" players.  I'm sure there may have been a contract clause terminating the contract when the regular players came back to play, but they got paid the same way as the regular players.

 

Give them their rings.  Won't hurt anyone and it makes for a great PR story.

 

I'd love to see Dan do something that would give us some positive press for the team.  

[MarkB452]

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

While I appreciate the efforts of the scab players, it's hard to put a lot of legitimacy into what transpired during those 3 weeks in the season. 

 

Jess Atkinson - Played 1 quarter of the opener in 1987 and still got a ring.  Injured on a dirty hit from Andre "Dirty" Waters that ended his season.

 

http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/news/article/13006433/a-perfect-ending

 

Atkinson watched the game from the stands of Jack Murphy Stadium in San Diego, but the Redskins dispensed a Super Bowl ring to him anyway. “It's not the same for me as it is for the guys who were actually on the field,” he says. “I'd never worked so hard for something as I did to get ready to play, so when I think of the ring I don't think about the Super Bowl, but of getting prepared to play again. It also helps to know that the Redskins could have won that game even if Joe Jacoby had to do all the kicking.”

[Jacoby66forHOF]

3 hours ago, pjfootballer said:

 

I know it's your opinion, but I'd disagree.  Gibbs in his 2nd stint didn't have the passion as he did the first time around, yet produced better results then any of the coaches (Petitbone, Norv, Schotty and Spurrier) before him.  The 2nd time around, the rules of the game and rosters had changed so much.  I think he did the best he could and came back because he loves the team so much.  He did it out of the goodness of his heart.  We as a fan base probably expected WAY too much the 2nd time around, but we'd seen the mountaintop the first time.

 

Great coach and DESERVED of the HOF. Look at his playoff record when he retired.  I believe Lombardi was only better at that time. You say Beathard gave him a great roster, but you don't mention Gibbs winning SBs with 3 different QBs, none of which are in the HOF.  His offensive innovations to the game, some of which are still used today. And his ability to change the offense, adapt the game plan and make adjustments is COACHING.  Period.  There were many times we were down at halftime, but he was the master of halftime adjustments.  Under the first SB, he recognized we couldn't be "Air Coryell" and adapted the offense to the running game and the Hogs.  In the 2nd SB, he took out George Rogers (Riggins type) against the Broncos and used the speed of Smith to basically "outrun" the smaller Denver defense.  He used Rypien's arm and ability to be deadly accurate with deep throws in 91. 

 

If you can't see what I just wrote as proof of him being a great coach, then you'll never be convinced.  He was one of the greatest.  He deserves to be mentioned with Lombardi, Shula, Landry, Belichick, Halas, etc.

 

Sure its my opinion, and I didn't expect SB victories in his 2nd stint with the Skins, but I expected more than:

 

-  Champ Bailey and a 2nd for Clinton Portis

-  Trading a 3rd round pick to Jacksonville for Mark Brunnell even though Jacksonville was destined to cut Brunnell in a couple weeks.

-  Trading a 3rd round pick and a future 1st and 4th to move up to draft Jason Campbell the year after trading a 3rd for Brunnell.  Also, Aaron Rodgers was selected 1 pick ahead of Campbell.  

-   Cutting Ryan Clark and  signing Adam Archuletta to a 6 year/30mil deal. 

-  Trading a 3rd round and 4th round picks for Brandon Lloyd, then resigned Lloyd to a 6 year/31 mil deal.

-  Trading a 3rd for TJ Duckett

 

So, yeah, I stand by my previous comment.  Great coach, getting the Skins to two playoff births in his 2nd stint with the Skins as proof, but he needed the teams Bobby Beathard built him to win Super Bowls.  That doesn't mean Gibbs doesn't belong in the HOF, just that he didn't do it all by himself during his first stint with the Skins.  He clearly needed a quality player personnel guy to win championships.  He had that with Beathard.

47 minutes ago, pjfootballer said:

They should get rings.  Here are my reasons:

 

1. They played in 3 games.  Those games are in the "Official" record book of the NFL as a "played NFL game" by the Washington Redskins.

 

2.  If you look up the 1987 Washington Redskins official roster (Pro Football Reference.com) both the regular players and replacement players are listed, along with games played and their stats.

 

3. They had "official" contracts with the league.  The contracts didn't say anything about being "temps, scabs or replacement" players.  I'm sure there may have been a contract clause terminating the contract when the regular players came back to play, but they got paid the same way as the regular players.

 

Give them their rings.  Won't hurt anyone and it makes for a great PR story.

 

I'd love to see Dan do something that would give us some positive press for the team.  

 

They also got playoff money.