88Comrade2000 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 They impeached Clinton for lying under oath about a blowjob; think there's enough for an impeachment of Trump. One thing impeaching Trump won't be easy. I really expect bloodshed if we get that far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 1 hour ago, MisterPinstripe said: Additionally, if Comey was obstructed in anyway his duty is to report it when it happens. The fact that he didnt reinforces that there wasnt enough there to constitute obstruction. Attempted obstruction is obstruction of justice. Go back and read that definition again. The mere attempt to obstruct is itself obstruction of justice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPinstripe Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Just now, AsburySkinsFan said: Attempted obstruction is obstruction of justice. Go back and read that definition again. The mere attempt to obstruct is itself obstruction of justice. I should have been more clear and included attempted obstruction. He would also have to report attempted obstruction to the AG as well, which he didnt do. There is a lot of stuff that made Comey uncomfortable and obviously looks pretty bad. But you need hard evidence, there is a heavy burden of proof to impeach a President as there should be. I dont see anyone on here arguing for evidence also defending this guy, though I havent read all of the most recent pages. I would love to have Trump out but dont see it happening not just due to his opening statement but because if there was anything he would have reported it to the AG when it happened. Not just said he was uncomfortable being with the President without the AG there as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixcuincle Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Got my popcorn ready Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 4 minutes ago, MisterPinstripe said: But you need hard evidence, there is a heavy burden of proof to impeach a President as there should be. I dont see anyone on here arguing for evidence also defending this guy, You have the evidence, Trump used conversations to attempt to coerce the FBI director to drop ongoing investigations against Flynn et al. What type of evidence do you want from that situation? It seems you're asking for a level of evidence that would be impossible to meet based on the type of crime implied by Comey's opening statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPinstripe Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 6 minutes ago, AsburySkinsFan said: You have the evidence, Trump used conversations to attempt to coerce the FBI director to drop ongoing investigations against Flynn et al. What type of evidence do you want from that situation? It seems you're asking for a level of evidence that would be impossible to meet based on the type of crime implied by Comey's opening statement. The problem with that evidence is what he said is pretty general. Hes a narcissistic moron but probably not stupid, so it wouldnt surprise me if he verbalized it in that way so that what he said could be taken multiple ways. I dont see anyway you could prove in court that what he said was to coerce Comey as opposed to him meaning he likes Flynn and hopes that the FBI investigation is able to clear him of those charges. We may be pretty sure thats what he meant, but it is definitely not specific or blatant enough to take away doubt that he meant it the second way. If there is no other evidence that comes out, I guarantee you he will not be impeached. Â Â And if Comey thought that Trump was coercing him/attempting to obstruct why didnt he report it to the AG? Probably because Comey could see it the same way. Maybe he was saying that and maybe he wasnt. If Comey thought Trump was attempting to obstruct and didnt report it he would be in trouble as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 So, let's see.  The President, leaning on the head of the FBI, to end an ongoing FBI investigation into a buddy, and then enlisting other people to help lean on the head of the FBI, and then firing the head of the FBI, for not taking the hints, is clearly not illegal.  But, if it was, then Comey's guilty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 46 minutes ago, twa said: ,,,,,I rest my case  God, I wish I could believe you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 1 hour ago, MisterPinstripe said: Unless more comes out from what is in Comeys opening statement Trump will not be impeached or charged with anything. Additionally, if Comey was obstructed in anyway his duty is to report it when it happens. The fact that he didnt reinforces that there wasnt enough there to constitute obstruction. Enough to be innappropriate? To show he has no idea what he is doing? Enough that you could say maybe he was hinting at stuff? Yes. I just unfortunately dont see anything coming from this. Â Â who the **** says he didn't report anything...? Â Â to whom..? Â to YOU??? Â All these leaked memos.... where do you think they come from? Â Comey's diary? Â (the one with Justin Beiber's picture on that he keeps under his bed..) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 One thing Comey's statement does is confirm the obvious - Donald Trump is a liar who can't be trusted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 And maybe he did report it to the AG which prompted Sessions to recuse himself while not pursuing charges against Trump for obstruction, which has led to Trump's anger at Sessions for not killing it. Trump expects loyalty. I really do hope Trump gets bored and takes his ball to go home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPinstripe Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 2 minutes ago, mcsluggo said: Â who the **** says he didn't report anything...? Â Â to whom..? Â to YOU??? Â All these leaked memos.... where do you think they come from? Â Comey's diary? Â (the one with Justin Beiber's picture on that he keeps under his bed..) Did I say I needed something reported to me? Based on his opening statement and everything else that has come out nothing indicates that he had reported anything to the AG. So with everything we know indicating he didnt report anything to the AG, why would I assume that he did? I can only go off the information we know. Are you assuming that he did report something to the AG even though there is nothing that says that anywhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 It's funny to me that this is a debate. He was fired and Trump declared he fired him because he was unhappy with the Russia Investigation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPinstripe Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 2 minutes ago, AsburySkinsFan said: And maybe he did report it to the AG which prompted Sessions to recuse himself while not pursuing charges against Trump for obstruction, which has led to Trump's anger at Sessions for not killing it. Trump expects loyalty. I really do hope Trump gets bored and takes his ball to go home. Maybe he did, but nothing indicates that he did. So why would we assume something that there is no evidence of? If he did then there is something solid to stand on, but I would be surprised that we wouldnt have heard about it yet. McSluggo seems to want to assume that he reported to the AG, whereas I am trying to just come to a conclusion based on what we actually know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 3 minutes ago, MisterPinstripe said: Did I say I needed something reported to me? Based on his opening statement and everything else that has come out nothing indicates that he had reported anything to the AG. So with everything we know indicating he didnt report anything to the AG, why would I assume that he did? I can only go off the information we know. Are you assuming that he did report something to the AG even though there is nothing that says that anywhere? Do you mean the AG that recused himself from this investigation? Â or do you mean the acting AG that was apparently fired largely over this investigation? or do you mean the deputy AG that was in place for about 2 weeks before he participated in Comey's firing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPinstripe Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Just now, mcsluggo said: Do you mean the AG that recused himself from this investigation? Â or do you mean the acting AG that was apparently fired largely over this investigation? or do you mean the deputy AG that was in place for about 2 weeks before he participated in Comey's firing? What does that have to do with Comey reporting attempted obstruction to the AG? Is there any evidence or statement anywhere saying he reported attempted obstruction? If not, why wouldnt we assume that nothing was reported since to say that he did is contrary to all of the information we have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedskinsFan44 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Seriously, do people here arguing this doesn't rise to impeachment believe that this is the worst of what has happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPinstripe Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Just now, RedskinsFan44 said: Seriously, do people here arguing this doesn't rise to impeachment believe that this is the worst of what has happened? We can only go off of what we know so far. We cant assume evidence that hasnt been present yet. I am going to rely on our justice system and due process and will adjust my position if and as new information comes out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 10 minutes ago, Burgold said: It's funny to me that this is a debate. He was fired and Trump declared he fired him because he was unhappy with the Russia Investigation.  True, but him being unhappy and wanting Comey to focus on what he saw as real crimes is called executive discretion. I've seen or heard nothing yet to show obstruction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 1 hour ago, MisterPinstripe said: The issue is saying I hope you can let this go can be spun either way which is why it isnt evidence. How can it be spun either way? And I didn't say anything at all about you being a Trump supporter. What i'm saying is that it is as obvious as the sky being blue what he was doing. This is not hard. "I hope you can let this go". He's asking him to drop the investigation and let Flynn off the hook. You know that's what he's saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedskinsFan44 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 No tape. No pee tape. You're on a pee tape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 13 minutes ago, MisterPinstripe said: Maybe he did, but nothing indicates that he did. So why would we assume something that there is no evidence of? If he did then there is something solid to stand on, but I would be surprised that we wouldnt have heard about it yet. McSluggo seems to want to assume that he reported to the AG, whereas I am trying to just come to a conclusion based on what we actually know. Right, you're trying to come to conclusions based on what you actually know....you do know that we're talking about the FBI and a highly deceptive White House Administration right? Has it occurred to you that what you know is considerably less than the full story, clouded by secrecy, an ongoing investigation and Administration lies? Trying to construct a conclusion regarding THIS White House for us spectators is going to be insanely difficult, and going off face value requires us to have a sliver of trust in the Administration. I don't. As such my default is to believe the worst with them because they are constantly lying and manipulating. They are not to be trusted at all, and at this point I believe the exact opposite of what they actually say. 9 minutes ago, twa said:  True, but him being unhappy and wanting Comey to focus on what he saw as real crimes is called executive discretion. I've seen or heard nothing yet to show obstruction. I'm stunned you'd think this way. Stunned.....not really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPinstripe Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 6 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said: How can it be spun either way? And I didn't say anything at all about you being a Trump supporter. What i'm saying is that it is as obvious as the sky being blue what he was doing. This is not hard. "I hope you can let this go". He's asking him to drop the investigation and let Flynn off the hook. You know that's what he's saying. It can easily be spun as he wasnt saying to drop it, he was saying I like Flynn and I hope that your investigation finds that he isnt guilty of anything and can be cleared and the investigation dropped. Its not a cut and dry statement like if he said: Comey, I want you to drop the Flynn investigation right now, clear him of any wrong doing and move on.  Or even: Stop investigating my teams ties with Russia.  Or: Stop investigating me or anyone I am connected to our your fired.  Those 3 examples are all cut and dry. What he actually said is not and can be spun another way quite easily. 4 minutes ago, AsburySkinsFan said: Right, you're trying to come to conclusions based on what you actually know....you do know that we're talking about the FBI and a highly deceptive White House Administration right? Has it occurred to you that what you know is considerably less than the full story, clouded by secrecy, an ongoing investigation and Administration lies? Trying to construct a conclusion regarding THIS White House for us spectators is going to be insanely difficult, and going off face value requires us to have a sliver of trust in the Administration. I don't. As such my default is to believe the worst with them because they are constantly lying and manipulating. They are not to be trusted at all, and at this point I believe the exact opposite of what they actually say. I'm stunned you'd think this way. Stunned.....not really Hah, well what am I supposed to do? Make **** up? Of course I am going to go off of what we actually know, the information that we ACTUALLY have as opposed to complete speculation. If evidence comes up showing that he obstructed then great! We have actual evidence and my position can change. Thats kind of how the justice system works in the country. I have trust in our justice system, not in an administration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 11 minutes ago, twa said: True, but him being unhappy and wanting Comey to focus on what he saw as real crimes is called executive discretion. I've seen or heard nothing yet to show obstruction. Yeah, my ass. You don't get to ask the FBI director to end an investigation or your buddy, even if you think he might be innocent (which he isn't)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 2 minutes ago, MisterPinstripe said: Hah, well what am I supposed to do? Make **** up? Of course I am going to go off of what we actually know, the information that we ACTUALLY have as opposed to complete speculation. If evidence comes up showing that he obstructed then great! We have actual evidence and my position can change. Thats kind of how the justice system works in the country. It's also what allowed OJ Simpson to go free after he committed a double murder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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