Game of Thrones Season 7

[Momma There Goes That Man]

2 hours ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

I still believe that "X wins the Iron Throne" is the worst possible ending, and would really undercut all the good things the show has done over the years.

 

Agree with this. The Iron Throne is part of the endless cycle of war and repeat and even the white walker's history. It is a carrot dangled in front of all the major players that will ultimately be destroyed once the cycle is broken. 

 

Daenerys said she wanted to break the wheel. I think she will do that in unintended ways

[RedskinsMayne]

44 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

Agree with this. The Iron Throne is part of the endless cycle of war and repeat and even the white walker's history. It is a carrot dangled in front of all the major players that will ultimately be destroyed once the cycle is broken. 

 

Daenerys said she wanted to break the wheel. I think she will do that in unintended ways

 

 

Winter is comming....

[JamesMadisonSkins]

The only one who hasn't expressed an interest in the Iron Throne who is a major player and has a chance of coming out on top is Jon ... but also Varys (who works for the realm) ... everyone else has expressed an interest in the IT.

 

So does that mean Jon emerges victorious since he has identified the true threat? and what does victorious even mean? Probably not the IT

[LadySkinsFan]

Just finished rewatching Season one. So foundational! Those baby dragons, and all the events leading up to Dany surviving the funeral pyre, hands not blistering from handling the hot eggs, and so on. She knew that she was the real dragon. 

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

On 6/2/2017 at 11:11 AM, JamesMadisonSkins said:

The only one who hasn't expressed an interest in the Iron Throne who is a major player and has a chance of coming out on top is Jon ... but also Varys (who works for the realm) ... everyone else has expressed an interest in the IT.

 

So does that mean Jon emerges victorious since he has identified the true threat? and what does victorious even mean? Probably not the IT

The more and more I think about it, the more I think that there's not going to be an Iron Throne.  I think Danny "Breaks the wheel" but not in the way she intended.  Nobody can "win" this game.  

 

I'm not sure if that means everybody loses, or what.  I just don't think anybody ends up sitting on the Iron Throne.  

 

Unless maybe it's the Night King.  Now that would be a twist.

 

On 6/2/2017 at 11:36 AM, LadySkinsFan said:

Just finished rewatching Season one. So foundational! Those baby dragons, and all the events leading up to Dany surviving the funeral pyre, hands not blistering from handling the hot eggs, and so on. She knew that she was the real dragon. 

 

 

I re-watched it earlier this year.  I think for the third time.  The number of things that you catch on subsequent viewings, amazing. At least as a Show Only person.

 

I still think the most foreshadowing (though had no idea about it at the time) moment was in one of the early episodes (I think ep. 2) when Ned and Jon are riding off.  Ned says to Jon "We'll talk about your mother next time we see each other" (Paraphrased).  Then Ned rides south to be hand of the king, and Jon rides north to The Wall.

 

Little did we know that they would never see each other, and how important Jon's parentage actually is.  (Again, as a show only person, at the time, there was no reason to think that Jon WASN'T Ned's **** son.)

 

Just think if Ned had decided to inform Jon before. Like, "hey, btw, let's pull off here while I tell you a little story..."  Things probably would have been a little different.  

 

[LadySkinsFan]

I agree, when I watched that scene, we didn't know that they would never see each other again. 

 

I think that Robert Baratheon knew that Lyanna didn't love him, that she preferred Raegar. Didn't he kill Raegar? Lyanna hid away because she was pregnant and protecting her son, who is Jon. We saw this in season six. 

 

Cersei knows that she was Robert's second choice. She had his child first that died. Then she had Jamie's children to deliberately deny Robert a legitimate heir. She made sure didn't get pregnant by Robert.

[Voice_of_Reason]

4 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said:

I agree, when I watched that scene, we didn't know that they would never see each other again. 

 

I think that Robert Baratheon knew that Lyanna didn't love him, that she preferred Raegar. Didn't he kill Raegar? Lyanna hid away because she was pregnant and protecting her son, who is Jon. We saw this in season six. 

 

Cersei knows that she was Robert's second choice. She had his child first that died. Then she had Jamie's children to deliberately deny Robert a legitimate heir. She made sure didn't get pregnant by Robert.

It really was a very good season.  The problem was just getting introduced to so many characters all at once.  It was just impossible to keep track of

 

Also, I totally had forgotten about the Hound's early "history."  

[PF Chang]

4 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

 

I still think the most foreshadowing (though had no idea about it at the time) moment was in one of the early episodes (I think ep. 2) when Ned and Jon are riding off.  Ned says to Jon "We'll talk about your mother next time we see each other" (Paraphrased).  Then Ned rides south to be hand of the king, and Jon rides north to The Wall.

 

 

 

Also in that scene "you may not have my name, but you have my blood." 

[Gamebreaker]

4 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

Just think if Ned had decided to inform Jon before. Like, "hey, btw, let's pull off here while I tell you a little story..."  Things probably would have been a little different.  

 

 

And Jon likely wouldn't have survived to this point, or at least survived to be resurrected on the Wall. For a while, I've thought that Jon being at The Wall, detached from the Game of Thrones has protected him from being killed despite not having an easy time of it anyway. I recall him wanting to ride south to join his brother when Ned was executed, which means he likely would've died at the Red Wedding. I recall him wanting to ride south again after the Red Wedding, which means he likely would've been killed by the Boltons. And if he never went to the Wall, he would've been betrayed and killed at some point. Prior to resurrection, he was too much like Ned to be able to keep a knife out of his back. Now, his experiences have probably prepared him to lead the North against the WW like no one else can. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

38 minutes ago, Gamebreaker said:

 

And Jon likely wouldn't have survived to this point, or at least survived to be resurrected on the Wall. For a while, I've thought that Jon being at The Wall, detached from the Game of Thrones has protected him from being killed despite not having an easy time of it anyway. I recall him wanting to ride south to join his brother when Ned was executed, which means he likely would've died at the Red Wedding. I recall him wanting to ride south again after the Red Wedding, which means he likely would've been killed by the Boltons. And if he never went to the Wall, he would've been betrayed and killed at some point. Prior to resurrection, he was too much like Ned to be able to keep a knife out of his back. Now, his experiences have probably prepared him to lead the North against the WW like no one else can. 

Well, going to the wall didn't actually keep him alive, but I see your point. As a show only guy, I gotta say, I never cared for Jon as a character until late season 5 and into season 6.  He was running around on both sides of the wall having flings with The Free Folk (might I say that Kit made an awesome choice in Rose in real life.  That woman is a BABE), and whatever, but truth be told, the entire Wall story line was kindof "meh" to me.  Until last season when the wall story line collided with the Ramsey/Sansa story line, and that was interesting.  

 

Oh, and I'm actually pretty sure that Sansa could/should actually be the wardeness of the North.  She has the birthright, and at this point, I'd put her wits up against anybody.  

44 minutes ago, PF Chang said:

 

Also in that scene "you may not have my name, but you have my blood." 

Seriously.  Who would have thought it wasn't actually directly his, but his sister's?  I mean, that scene is just so different with the knowledge of hindsight.

[Warhead36]

I think in the classical story sense it makes the most sense for Jon Snow to "win" the Game of Thrones. Born a ****, exiled to the wall, back from the dead, and ends up becoming King. But nothing about Game of Thrones is classic or cliche in anyway, so knowing that it'll probably end up being someone like Littlefinger who ends up on the throne.

[LadySkinsFan]

I forget who all are on Arya's list, is Littlefinger on it? She's pretty lethal now, she's learned her lessons well.

[Riggo-toni]

Cersei and the Mountain are on it, and the Brotherhood without Banners

[LadySkinsFan]

Are the Brotherhood without Banners still alive, weren't they blown up by Cersei? Maybe I'm thinking of the wrong group.

[JCB]

LSF, I'm pretty sure they're the folks the Hound ended up with after Ian McShane's group was slaughtered. It's hard to keep track with this show sometimes!

[Momma There Goes That Man]

Arya doesn't know about Littlefinger's deeds so he is not on the list. 

 

I saw an interesting article earlier that I can't find but will paraphrase. Basically it's the theory that Davos is the true Prince That Was Promised. 

 

Here is the rundown: Melissandre says the prince that was promised has the following traits: 

 

1) When the red star bleeds it will signal the return of the prince 

 

2) the prince will bring life to dragon from

stone

 

3) born amidst salt and smoke 

 

4) will pull/wield a flaming sword 

 

---the case for Jon----

1) Young Ned places Arthur Daynes bloody sword "Dawn" against the bed where Lyanna just gave birth. The sword has a sun on the handle and with the blood we get Jon being born under a red star

 

2) this is in reference to Jon being dead/stone and then being awoken. Since he is Targaryen, he is the literal dragon woken from stone

 

3) not sure about this one. Maybe Lyannas tears are the salt?  

 

4) this is reference to Jons sword which is valerian, not literally flaming but we know it destroys white walkers/the ice hence it being referred to as a flaming sword by those that witnessed the prince defeat the the white walkers during the long night 

 

---the case for Davos---

1) the red comet is in the sky throughout season 2. It is in the sky during the battle of black water when Davos is nearly killed and thought dead. Upon returning to stannis, stannis tells him, "I heard you were dead. You've only just been born again. Stay alive a little longer, my friend." This was his birth under the red star 

 

2) Davos is literally the one that gets Melissandre to bring Jon back to life. Then everyone leaves the room and Davos prays for Jon alone. He is responsible for waking dragon from stone

 

3) born again was covered, this would also include the smoke and the sal****er from the bay during the battle of blackwater

 

4) this one is sneaky. So Melissandre has her big ceremonial show with Stannis on the beach of Dragonstone at the beginning of season 2. Believing Stannis to be the prince that was promised, she has him pull a flaming sword out from the pyre. Stannis later stabs it into the ground. Later as everyone leaves the beach, Davos pulls this same sword from the sand. ? Duh duh dunnnn

 

and for fun.

-----the case for Daenerys----

1) the comet doesn't appear until season 2 once the dragons are hatched and Daenerys has been reborn as the mother of dragons, hence her birth under the red star

 

2) this one is easy. She quite literally brought 3 dragons to life from dead eggs that were essentially stone eggs 

 

3) she was born at dragonstone, a volcanic mountain island thus born amidst both smoke from the volcano and salt from the seas 

 

4) the direct interpretation here is that she doesn't wield a flaming sword literally to defeat the white walkers but a flaming weapon, obviously the dragons 

[Momma There Goes That Man]

6 minutes ago, JCB said:

LSF, I'm pretty sure they're the folks the Hound ended up with after Ian McShane's group was slaughtered. It's hard to keep track with this show sometimes!

 

Yes that is correct. When Ned first becomes hand of the kind, he hears about aotrocites committed by the mountain and he sends a group out to hunt the mountain down. Once war erupts this group becomes the brotherhood without banners, fighting against injustice as best they can. 

 

This is the same group that took Arya and whom sold Gendry to Melissandre. Their leader Beric has been killed 5-6 times, most recently by the Hound and brought back to life. 

 

They return in season 6 as some of their members went rogue and massacred the people building the church that the Hound was with. They have since seemed to talk the Hound into trying to atone for his past and seek redemption 

17 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said:

Are the Brotherhood without Banners still alive, weren't they blown up by Cersei? Maybe I'm thinking of the wrong group.

 

Youre thinking of the sparrows, priest cult that she blew up with the Sept

[Gamebreaker]

3 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

Oh, and I'm actually pretty sure that Sansa could/should actually be the wardeness of the North.  She has the birthright, and at this point, I'd put her wits up against anybody.  

 

Technically, Jon should be ruling them all as the next in line for the Throne, even over Dany. But as far as they know, yeah it should be Sansa. I do believe she is capable, now. But Jon is likely the better ruler. Unlike her, he hasn't been jaded by what has happened to him. He still has a bit of Ned in him, and that's necessary to keep his bannermen from being as cruel and evil as the Lannisters and Boltons are/were. Sansa is a lot like LF now, which is useful at times but not what you want from a ruler overall. By rights, she should be the Wardeness, but it was smart for her to stand aside for her "half-brother" and influence him from the shadows. It's what LF taught her, and it will protect her from danger. Something Cersei could never learn, and likely never will. 

[LadySkinsFan]

I forgot Ian McShane! How could I? Getting ready to watch season two this week. I watch at night.

[StillUnknown]

powered through seasons 1 & 2 and part way through 3 over the last few days.

 

I forgot how annoying Sansa was season 1/season 2

 

that transformation has been something to behold

[LadySkinsFan]

She was rather whiny wasn't she?

[StillUnknown]

1 minute ago, LadySkinsFan said:

She was rather whiny wasn't she?

 

she had so many fantasies in her head, and protected from reality. credit to Sophie Turner for really playing it up, but damn its hard to rewatch.  Kept waiting for Arya to somehow smack her

[Momma There Goes That Man]

1 hour ago, StillUnknown said:

 

she had so many fantasies in her head, and protected from reality. credit to Sophie Turner for really playing it up, but damn its hard to rewatch.  Kept waiting for Arya to somehow smack her

 

No its naught fairr! But it's just naught fairr! I love Joffrey and he loves me! 

 

Yeah ah she was annoying. She's had a great arc tho 

[Momma There Goes That Man]

------

I forgot one other thing on the Davos theory. 

 

He said in an interview that when they first started filming GRRM whispered a secret about the character to Davos that no other actor was allowed to know. Davos said he still has never told anyone what GRRM said. 

 

Its interesting since there isn't really anything noteworthy about the character that's been revealed to this point or even anything that would need to be kept from others. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

9 hours ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

No its naught fairr! But it's just naught fairr! I love Joffrey and he loves me! 

 

Yeah ah she was annoying. She's had a great arc tho 

 

10 hours ago, StillUnknown said:

 

she had so many fantasies in her head, and protected from reality. credit to Sophie Turner for really playing it up, but damn its hard to rewatch.  Kept waiting for Arya to somehow smack her

 

 

There was a story on EW asking the actors that play the Stark children about which child Ned would be most proud of.  Link to Article

 

Kit and Sophie both chose Arya (before Sophie changed her mind and said Sansa).  Masiie said Sansa because she had changed the most.  Isaac said "he'd love us all equally." Wimp.  

 

If you look at the 4, they've each changed a tremendous amount, in different ways:

 

- Jon Snow - went from a kind of an outcast winy **** (though not really?) to commander of the Night's Watch.  Killed and resurrected, Made tough decisions, and then became King in the North.  (Though I'm not signing him up for any battle strategy lessons.)  That's a pretty big change.

 

- Arya - Survived a really tough journey, but has trained and become a "faceless assassin."  Though not really.  She's kindof just Arya with a lot of skills to kill people. I think she's the one who actually changed the least. She was always the "tomboy" and always had a great deal of anger towards those who did her wrong (including her sister), now she has the means to dispatch of those folks as she wishes.

 

- Bran - Probably the biggest transformation of all, becoming the 3-Eyed Raven.  

 

- Sansa - has just lived through one horror after the next.  Was engaged to Joffrey and then married off to Ramsey, the two most horrific monsters in the show.  Was used as a pawn by Baelish.  But along the way, while being emotionally and physically abused, she grew a serious spine, and has come out as a fierce woman who smiled while her ex-husband was eaten by his dogs.  Huge change from winy little innocent girl to mature, strong leader and woman.  

 

I'm not sure who Ned would have been most proud of.  Probably Jon, actually, leading the Night's Watch and taking back Winterfell for the Stark's, trying to save Rickon, protecting his "sister" (though really cousin I think?).  A fierce warrior, good leader (bad tactician, Ned would appreciate that...), good person, and took to heart the "he who passes the sentence must swing the sword" responsibility.

 

I'm not sure that Ned would be all about Arya becoming an  assassin.  Maybe, but I kind of think his honor would say that you should do your killing "honorably" and not in a "sneaky" way.  He might think that the ends justifies the means, not sure.  And I'm not sure he would even understand what the hell happened to Bran.  

 

Personally, I think he would be very proud of Sansa. Arguably, she had more to deal with than any of the kids (well, Bran did have the Night King, so there is that) with Joffrey and Ramsey.  And she survived.  Albeit with some help.  But she survived.  She struck alliances, and might be the only person who has at least somewhat gotten Baelish to do what she wanted, instead of having him only do what is best for him, and him alone.  I think Ned would be thrilled to see his weak, winy little girl had turned into a strong woman, and the Lady of Winterfell.  

 

And I still think that my favorite moment in the entire series (and there are many "moments" is the ever so subtle smile that Sansa has as she walks away from Ramsey as he is eaten by his hounds.  It was such a "I win" moment, after all of the horrible, awful things he did to her those that she cared for.  Just an awesome piece of acting and moment.  (I also love the line earlier line from the same episode, "you're going to die tomorrow, Lord Bolton. Sleep well.")  

 

Compared to the "It's NAUGHT FAIR!" Sansa from Season 1/2, she's come A LONG LONG way.