Bruce Allen, Scot McCloughlan, Jay Gruden, and all that stuff like that there

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

8 hours ago, Monk4thaHALL said:

 

My guess is that Williams probably has his finger on the pulse of any worthwhile players from the MEAC and SWAC. If I had to guess, that is likely his "territory" for scouting. Not that I have knowledge, but I'd likely ascribe the acquisition of Anthony Lanier to Williams. 

 

If this were 1974, that would be incredibly valuable information. Alas, that's not really a territory filled with All-Pro level talent any longer.

[Riggo#44]

1 minute ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

I kind of see you second point.  And like some others here I really don't have that much of a problem with the way the team is handling it.  If the rumors of SM's drinking are true they were simply trying to protect him.  And again if they are true I certainly can't blame them for taking action.  My only complaint is it was obvious that SM's absence from the combine would be noticed. Why not get in front of the story and make an announcement, even if it is some BS "personal  situation" excuse rather than react in scramble mode after his absence was discovered.

 

One of two answers: 1. They are really that inept (which is possible) 2. They really don't give a ****.

 

I don't think Bruce Allen is that dumb or inept, I think he's taking a Bellicheckian stance here: Feed them **** and keep them in the dark.

[Reaper Skins]

17 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

@Reaper Skins I would love that long play to be the plan all along, I just don't see it. It doesn't mean that this transition (assuming it happens) can't work out, but I just don't think that we brought McCloughan aboard as a 2-3 year fix to groom Williams. 

Not to groom Williams, more to take some of the pressure off of him so that he wouldn't have to start so deep in the hole.  Two years later and we've basically erased RG3 and the cap penalty because Scott has been able to focus on fixing that while Allen handled everything else.  

 

If the team is a car, Williams is the one who was hired to drive it.  But Allen had to take it to a mechanic first to get it up and running.  Scott knows cars better than anyone, and has been a driver before, but his past, um, indiscretions, meant Allen didn't trust him behind the wheel.  But he was willing to let him under the hood long enough to help us get back in the race.

[MartinC]

1 hour ago, justice98 said:

 

This would feed into the dysfunction narrative that we hired a guy with ticking time bomb in his pocket like that.  If him drinking get played a role in this, the team got what it deserved.

 

There was always a risk of a relapse (assuming that's what's happened). There was a lot of talk about that on here when we hired him with people hoping it did not happen and that if it did he'd at least got us back on track by then.

 

i don't recall many, if any, posters saying we should not have hired him despite the risk.

 

There is ZERO that was dysfunctional about giving a talented personnel guy an opportunity while being aware of the risks and being vigilant for issues.

[Darrell Green Fan]

We need to stop using the word "relapse" when he made it clear that he never stopped drinking.  But you are right, not one of us had a problem with the hire.  We tended to overlook the risk in our glee to hire such a good personnel guy  when the truth is we all should have seen this coming. Again if the rumors are true.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

13 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

@Reaper Skins I would love that long play to be the plan all along, I just don't see it. It doesn't mean that this transition (assuming it happens) can't work out, but I just don't think that we brought McCloughan aboard as a 2-3 year fix to groom Williams. 

 

Scot is my age and only has about 4 more years of GM experience than Williams does - as long as you count his time with the Redskins.

 

We brought in a somewhat inexperienced 45 year-old functional alcoholic to groom a 60 year-old for the GM job?  If there was "grooming" going on, I would have thought it would be NFL lifer and grown-ass man Bruce Allen mentoring Scot.

 

I mean, what's the end game for Scot here if that is plan? Does he intend to put in two year stints with every NFL franchise before he reaches retirement age? The idea of hiring Scot is that he could be your GM for the next 15 or 20 years if things go right - like Newsome, like Colbert, like Belichick. There's no other job for him to be promoted to. And I can't see anyone hiring him as GM if he left here after a short stint.

 

 

[jphilly]

3 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

We need to stop using the word "relapse" when he made it clear that he never stopped drinking.  But you are right, not one of us had a problem with the hire.  We tended to overlook the risk in our glee to hire such a good personnel guy  when the truth is we all should have seen this coming. Again if the rumors are true.

1

 

You are right , it was more of  - 

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I'd offer her a beer too.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

6 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

We need to stop using the word "relapse" when he made it clear that he never stopped drinking.  But you are right, not one of us had a problem with the hire.  We tended to overlook the risk in our glee to hire such a good personnel guy  when the truth is we all should have seen this coming. Again if the rumors are true.

 

I was (fairly) chastised for calling him Scot McDrunken in what I thought was a spirit of fun. Because a family-wrecking disease is amusing.

 

I thought it was a risk when we hired him. Ever seen that Twitter nonsense with his wife, I thought this kind of outcome was more likely than not.

[Cooleyfan1993]

3 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

 

I was (fairly) chastised for calling him Scot McDrunken in what I thought was a spirit of fun. Because a family-wrecking disease is amusing.

 

I thought it was a risk when we hired him. Ever seen that Twitter nonsense with his wife, I thought this kind of outcome was more likely than not.

I sure hope that's sarcasm, or a joke, because a family-wrecking disease is NOT fun ??? it's actually very horrible...

[Dissident2]

I like seeing all these revisionist history posts praising Allen now as being the main reason we've had the two back-to-back winning seasons. 

 

Allen's record as GM here before the SM hire:

28-52. 

 

That's a five year track record, and it sucks donkey balls. Perhaps the loss of SM is inevitable because of SM alone. But we do NOT want to see Allen re-take the reins here as GM. I'd rather see an unproven Williams take over, even though I have no idea whatsoever what would qualify him to hold that position. 

 

 

 

 

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Just now, Cooleyfan1993 said:

I sure hope that's sarcasm, or a joke, because a family-wrecking disease is NOT fun ??? it's actually very horrible...

 

No, it's amusing. Have you never seen "Arthur" starring Dudley Moore? Alcoholism is just like that.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

40 minutes ago, justice98 said:

 

I said it would feed into it, and it does. 

 

I know, but they will never see it that way. Or rather, will never report/speculate on it that way.  That was my point.

[Darrell Green Fan]

1 minute ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

I sure hope that's sarcasm, or a joke, because a family-wrecking disease is NOT fun ??? it's actually very horrible...

 

We all understand what alcoholism can do to a family.  But my gosh this is a sport message board and our savior may be out the door.  I don't think anyone should get too worked up over small jokes regarding SM, to us fans it's kind of gallows humor. 

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Just now, Califan007 said:

 

I know, but they will never see it that way. Or rather, will never report/speculate on it that way.  That was my point.

 

So, if you were God-king of the message board, what WOULD we talk about?

[Reaper Skins]

18 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

 

Scot is my age and only has about 4 more years of GM experience than Williams does - as long as you count his time with the Redskins.

 

We brought in a somewhat inexperienced 45 year-old functional alcoholic to groom a 60 year-old for the GM job?  If there was "grooming" going on, I would have thought it would be NFL lifer and grown-ass man Bruce Allen mentoring Scot.

 

I mean, what's the end game for Scot here if that is plan? Does he intend to put in two year stints with every NFL franchise before he reaches retirement age? The idea of hiring Scot is that he could be your GM for the next 15 or 20 years if things go right - like Newsome, like Colbert, like Belichick. There's no other job for him to be promoted to. And I can't see anyone hiring him as GM if he left here after a short stint.

 

 

I replied to @TD_washingtonredskins with kind of the same question.  I don't think he's grooming Williams.  More helping the whole front office by taking some of the personnel duties off of their plate.  If you play this theory out (and yes obviously all speculation), I think he was hired as a consultant by Bruce to help fix our depleted depth chart and help get the franchise back on solid ground.  They knew how important the last few years were for long term stability so they had no problem bringing in extra help to make sure we weren't hamstrung by bad contracts or bad draft picks for years to come.  For all I know Scott doesn't want to deal with the stress and aggravation of being a full time GM after what happened at his last two stops.  Maybe he was perfectly content running his scouting service but the offer Bruce gave him was too lucrative to pass up.   Maybe the job appealed to him because it had a set deadline and he would be allowed to focus on just the areas of the job he enjoyed.  I don't think any other organizations were offering him a position at the time so he maybe took this one because it was a very good paycheck and a chance to ease himself back into the GM role.  Or maybe Bruce have told him "look, we already have our long term guy in mind, but we could use your expertise in the short term and help you rebuild your image to help you land another GM job"

[Darrell Green Fan]

6 minutes ago, Dissident2 said:

I like seeing all these revisionist history posts praising Allen now as being the main reason we've had the two back-to-back winning seasons. 

 

Allen's record as GM here before the SM hire:

28-52. 

 

That's a five year track record, and it sucks donkey balls. Perhaps the loss of SM is inevitable because of SM alone. But we do NOT want to see Allen re-take the reins here as GM. I'd rather see an unproven Williams take over, even though I have no idea whatsoever what would qualify him to hold that position. 

 

 

 

 

 

Most all of us prefer SM to Allen.  Big time.  But posts like this are simply not fair.  Allen never had the 5th pick in the draft, in fact he never even had a first rounder.  Given that his one draft here was really not that bad.  He was also saddled with Robert for those losing years. 

 

SM came here and built the back end of the roster and made a few key picks.  But the love he is getting for single handily turning us from 5 wins to division champs is off target.  The vast majority of the players on this team, including a now mature and developed Kirk Cousins, were already on the team before he arrived.  They played a much bigger role collectively in the turnaround than the players  SM acquired. 

[SkinInsite]

2 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

Most all of us prefer SM to Allen.  Big time.  But posts like this are simply not fair.  Allen never had the 5th pick in the draft, in fact he never even had a first rounder.  Given that his one draft here was really not that bad.  He was also saddled with Robert for those losing years. 

 

SM came here and built the back end of the roster and made a few key picks.  But the love he is getting for single handily turning us from 5 wins to division champs is off target.  The vast majority of the players on this team, including a now mature and developed Kirk Cousins, were already on the team before he arrived.  They played a much bigger role collectively in the turnaround than the players  SM acquired. 

 

Allen was here when Skins picked RG3, so he saddled himself.

 

As if trading 3 picks for RG3 was not a disaster that should have the whole front office cleared out.

[justice98]

4 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

There was always a risk of a relapse (assuming that's what's happened). There was a lot of talk about that on here when we hired him with people hoping it did not happen and that if it did he'd at least got us back on track by then.

 

i don't recall many, if any, posters saying we should not have hired him despite the risk.

 

There is ZERO that was dysfunctional about giving a talented personnel guy an opportunity while being aware of the risks and being vigilant for issues.

 

Like I said, I know nobody was saying that, I wasnt saying that then either.  We were all desperate for water in the desert. His resume was legit, nobody was gonna turn that down under the circumstances.  But if we were really being honest with ourselves, we shoulda been more skeptical.  He's got about a 3-year shelf life anywhere he goes and doesn't sound like he'll make it 3 here.  

[TD_washingtonredskins]

7 minutes ago, Reaper Skins said:

I replied to @TD_washingtonredskins with kind of the same question.  I don't think he's grooming Williams.  If you play this theory out (and yes obviously all speculation), I think he was hired as a consultant by Bruce to help fix our depleted depth chart and help get the franchise back on solid ground.  They knew how important the last few years were for long term stability so they had no problem bringing in extra help to make sure we weren't hamstrung by bad contracts or bad draft picks for years to come.  For all I know Scott doesn't want to deal with the stress and aggravation of being a full time GM after what happened at his last two stops.  Maybe he was perfectly content running his scouting service but the offer Bruce gave him was too lucrative to pass up.   Maybe the job appealed to him because it had a set deadline and he would be allowed to focus on just the areas of the job he enjoyed.  I don't think any other organizations were offering him a position at the time so he maybe took this one because it was a very good paycheck and a chance to ease himself back into the GM role. 

It's an intelligent theory, no doubt. I just think there's a 0.1% chance that it's how things played out. It would be the best-case scenario, but it's one of least likely ones as well. 

 

Maybe you should come up with the next plan of attack for Allen AHEAD OF TIME, because you have some good ones! 

[Riggo-toni]

I would love to see us hire now the guy I wanted more than Scot McC - Scott Pioli. He did an excellent job with the roster at KC, but hired the wrong HC, had to deal with a murder-suicide, and a QB that didn't stay healthy. If we could lure him away from the Falcons and sign KC to a ltd, we would be a contender.

[Darrell Green Fan]

8 minutes ago, SkinInsite said:

 

Allen was here when Skins picked RG3, so he saddled himself.

 

As if trading 3 picks for RG3 was not a disaster that should have the whole front office cleared out.

 

That was Shanny not Allen

 

I can't believe I find myself defending Bruce Allen.  LOL. 

[MartinC]

7 minutes ago, justice98 said:

 

Like I said, I know nobody was saying that, I wasnt saying that then either.  We were all desperate for water in the desert. His resume was legit, nobody was gonna turn that down under the circumstances.  But if we were really being honest with ourselves, we shoulda been more skeptical.  He's got about a 3-year shelf life anywhere he goes and doesn't sound like he'll make it 3 here.  

 

Yep. 4 years in Seattle, 5 in SF. We got short changed.

 

But hiring him was not dysfunctional is all I'm saying. Neither is letting him go if his drinking has got in the way of him doing his job. 

[Reaper Skins]

8 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

It's an intelligent theory, no doubt. I just think there's a 0.1% chance that it's how things played out. It would be the best-case scenario, but it's one of least likely ones as well. 

 

Maybe you should come up with the next plan of attack for Allen AHEAD OF TIME, because you have some good ones! 

Where do I send my resume lol?

Still waiting for Snyder to return my calls.....  

[Darrell Green Fan]

6 minutes ago, Riggo-toni said:

I would love to see us hire now the guy I wanted more than Scot McC - Scott Pioli. He did an excellent job with the roster at KC, but hired the wrong HC, had to deal with a murder-suicide, and a QB that didn't stay healthy. If we could lure him away from the Falcons and sign KC to a ltd, we would be a contender.

 

Love this idea.  Can we get him in here in a few weeks?