Bruce Allen, Scot McCloughlan, Jay Gruden, and all that stuff like that there

[Koolblue13]

Thanks for doing the new thread, I went to sleep shortly after suggesting it.

 

I like the idea of DW and hope it works out. I know people get pissy about the Tampa connection,  but what about our own home grown Redskins? Bruce did say a long time back he wants alumni hanging around.

[justice98]

3 hours ago, RedBeast said:

I love Doug Williams because of his Super Bowl with us but really what experience does he have in regards to picking good talent/finding hidden gems and being the really solid GM that this team needs

 

Agreed, now is not the time for sentimentality.  I want the best talent evaluator for the gig.  If that's DW, so be it.  But him being an alumni is way down the list of criteria.

[Koolblue13]

1 hour ago, justice98 said:

 

Agreed, now is not the time for sentimentality.  I want the best talent evaluator for the gig.  If that's DW, so be it.  But him being an alumni is way down the list of criteria.

Maybe he can, maybe he can't. Be extra cool if he could become our ozzy Newsome. 

 

One things for sure, outside of Scot, everyone else seems to be on the same page and working well together. That's nice.

[Stefanskins]

7 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

 

uh-oh...Mr. Devils Advocate started himself a thread...interestin'...interestin'...lol... ; )

[Rskins06]

I still don't see the dysfunction as some seem to.  If SM is drinking again, that isn't the FOs fault and if they did nothing, THAT would lead to dysfunction.  If true, unfortunately, he has to go and the FO has no choice but to let him go.  One thing has definitely changed with this FO as a couple yrs ago, there were more leaks in the FO and we were getting all kinds of info from "anonymous sources", now it seems there is MUCH less of that going on.  

 

I will ill take the "wait and see" approach to find out what was/is the reality.

[Skinsinparadise]

My 2 cents on if there is an issue that it might be because its something going on between Scot and Jay which was brought up in the other Scot thread.  I'd say very little shot that's true.  From my meeting Scot it was clear as day that he really dug Jay.  Twice unsolicited he brought him up -- saying how great Jay is in his own right at evaluating talent and how helpful he is to him in that department, then at another time he talked about what a great guy he is. 

 

Mike Jones wrote an article last night that referred to potential issues between Scot and Bruce.  But yeah I've yet to hear anything as to issues with Jay and Scot and I'd be surprised if that is going down, albeit you never know. 

[NewCliche21]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

Maybe he can, maybe he can't. Be extra cool if he could become our ozzy Newsome. 

 

One things for sure, outside of Scot, everyone else seems to be on the same page and working well together. That's nice.

 

Newsome had a pretty good background and was part of the greatest team that never was ('97 Browns).  Williams has been here; I have nothing but love for the guy, but I don't know of anything that shows that he would be good for the job.  Not that we would even know what that looks like at this point.

 

I'd love to be wrong; I just have zero information regarding his ability to be a good GM.  I'd rather take an Eric DeCosta or another second-in-command who would actually run the team.

[bobandweave]

Not surprised by this addiction is a serious issue and the NFLs biggest advertiser is alcohol. We don't talk enough about this.

 

Super Scout Scot probably drank himself out of a career with this. Sucks it happened to us but we all saw the writing on the wall with him and rolled the dice anyway. I doubt another team will go down this road with him now. I also doubt if we go the path of GM anytime soon after this debacle 

 

Now as for anxiety and concern here's how I see this affecting us

 

Free Agency? Break this down to in house and out house guys. Out house guys in free agency will only come here if we are overpaying. As for the class do we need a Guard? Right now that's the only deep position in this extremely weak class I see. Everything else is weak and over spending to me is dumb. It will ripple down here but that could be a good thing.

 

In house guys? That's what worries me much more, I don't think that Cousins will want to sign long term without receivers to throw too and sorry but when we watch 2k yards leave we have nothing there. I see a huge overhaul coming on offense from the QB on down and a complete rebuild coming.

 

This will effect us the most and I think some of it happens this way because Scot understands football better then the guys he left. Scoring points is more important then over paying a guy two million more then we want too and that's what we are dealing with now. you don't watch your entire offense bounce in a year but I think we will have to because I have no faith in us getting this right.

 

Rippling effects on this news couldn't have come at a possible worse time and leads to losing seasons the next three years. Hope I'm wrong pray I'm wrong but I doubt once the gates open and our offense goes bye bye I will be

[Koolblue13]

1 hour ago, NewCliche21 said:

 

Newsome had a pretty good background and was part of the greatest team that never was ('97 Browns).  Williams has been here; I have nothing but love for the guy, but I don't know of anything that shows that he would be good for the job.  Not that we would even know what that looks like at this point.

 

I'd love to be wrong; I just have zero information regarding his ability to be a good GM.  I'd rather take an Eric DeCosta or another second-in-command who would actually run the team.

Agreed and who wouldn't? Aint gonna happen I dont think, so might as well be hopeful, because itd be cool if it did work.

[TheBlueIndian]

1 minute ago, bobandweave said:

Not surprised by this addiction is a serious issue and the NFLs biggest advertiser is alcohol. We don't talk enough about this.

 

Super Scout Scot probably drank himself out of a career with this. Sucks it happened to us but we all saw the writing on the wall with him and rolled the dice anyway. I doubt another team will go down this road with him now. I also doubt if we go the path of GM anytime soon after this debacle 

 

 

I suspect that we all know someone affected  by alcoholism, a friend, a loved one, a co-worker or neighbor. For folks who don't struggle with it , it seems insane that someone who seemingly has everything could throw it all away, these folks can be some of the most brilliant people we know in every possible way except when it comes to drinking, one they start ...all bets are off and they loose all control. For some hitting bottom is only the beginning for others it is time to stop digging, for Scot I hope it is the latter.

[bedlamVR]

8 minutes ago, bobandweave said:

 

In house guys? That's what worries me much more, I don't think that Cousins will want to sign long term without receivers to throw too and sorry but when we watch 2k yards leave we have nothing there. I see a huge overhaul coming on offense from the QB on down and a complete rebuild coming.

2

 

Next man up - Jackson I can see the team making a big push to bring back because he has a unique skill set that sets him apart but there will be a price tag because the team know he will not be a full-time starter - less so as he get older

 

I would take a risk on one 30 something WR on a three to four-year big money deal but not two. And the reason you dont want to be tied into that kind of commitment is because as time goes on they are only going to struggle more with injuries not less. - and availability is a key skill. People talk when the WRs change - oh who is going to make those catches make those plays - someone is - next man up . 

 

if i am Kirk I am not looking at who specifically  is going to be catching the balls but I would be looking to see if the same schemes are going to be in place if the same opportunities are going to be there and if there is still going to be a strong commitment to the offense - And i think there always is as long as Jay is there .

 I am not going to be butt hurt if 11 and 88 aren't the guys making the catches so long as someone is - and I am not going to turn down the opportunity to set myself and my kids up for life because teammates are elsewhere. 

 

The other thought I would have is if this mess does not get sorted out - I wonder if Scot will return to consultancy - because he could set himself up wherever he wants and you can bet the Redskins (bruce) would be inclined to use him in that capacity 

[Probos]

7 hours ago, Boss_Hogg said:

If Keim is reporting it too then it's all but certain that Scot will be gone. Keim has been very fair to this team and the fans. 

 

This goes beyond football. If the reports about Scot falling off the wagon are true, then he needs help; and for the sake of himself and his family, I hope he gets that help. 

 

 

 

 

I agree -- if he indeed did fall off the wagon then he does need help, and I wish him luck.  

 

Regardless of the actual reason for this rift and potential parting of the ways it just bad all the way around.  Unfortunately, due to the years of failure and disfunction that this franchise has cultivated over the years the outside perception will be one of "same ole Skins",.."par for course",..etc.  That skin won't be shed til they're a true, consistent winner over a number of years.

[Dissident2]

8 hours ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

Yeah, SM not being at the combine is about as loud of a tea leaf as you will find.  The attempts on here to try and normalize that development were pretty feeble in retrospect.

 

They were feeble when they happened. I get it ... no one wants to feel like the team they're so emotionally invested in is dealing with yet another bout of chronic dysfunction so soon, especially after all the excitement of Scot's hiring (I know, I know, we can debate the dysfunction, but let's face it, that's exactly how the outside world views us, and if it was another team, we'd be saying the same thing). But the "grandmother" story was so obviously a cover from the beginning, especially with all the holes in that storyline. 

 

People were so quick to jump on others here saying, "How dare you judge how another man grieves?" When you think about it, though, what people should've and should be railing against is the FO  AND SM using the grandmother's passing as an excuse for Scot's absence and issues. What a tremendous insult to that woman and her memory. They turned her passing into a joke. By falsely claiming that her death was a reason for all this, they made light of her death. That is so much worse than someone on here questioning the initial hole-ridden story. 

 

Yeah, the media is full of click-bait seekers and speculation artists, but these things don't just appear out of nowhere. And it remains mind-boggling to me that with all the history of incompetence we have here for the last twenty years, people are more willing to believe in a "vast media conspiracy based on complete lies" than the much more evidence-based possibility that our FO has once again screwed the pooch. The "I blame the fan base" posts were even more heinous. 

 

We don't at all know the full story at this point, and we may never know it. The problems with SM may be totally on him, and perhaps he put the FO in a really tough spot to begin with. But I don't know, my assumption is that it's a combination of things. And again, we pretty much KNOW at this point that the FO totally lied to everyone when they said SM was gone "because of the death of his grandmother." I find that alone to be vile, especially when all they needed to say was what they ended up saying anyway: "dealing with family issues." Her name was Marie Bessie McCloughan, by the way. Now, thanks to all this, she'll just be known to the sports world at large as "the grandmother," another punch line to yet another PR ****-up from the Redskins "braintrust". 

 

**** like that is why I rarely give these goons the benefit of the doubt when these things arise. 

[Est.1974]

I think Gruden will slowly assume more responsibility. Our selections in FA and the draft may reflect that. Hard to tell though in reality.

[Darrell Green Fan]

Great point about the grandmother excuse being totally disrespectful to her.  I still can't believe nhow many posters here actually bought that story.

 

[MartinC]

There is clearly something amis. When your scouting obsessed GM misses the combine that's a red flag. 

 

With his history it's easy to speculate. He lasted 4 years with the Seahawks, 5 years with the 49ers. Looks like we only got 3.

 

The thing I take issue with re the media reporting is the label of dysfunction. I don't think that's fair - either for how the team handled and is handling Cousins contract or the situation around Scot. 

[bobandweave]

53 minutes ago, TheBlueIndian said:

I suspect that we all know someone affected  by alcoholism, a friend, a loved one, a co-worker or neighbor. For folks who don't struggle with it , it seems insane that someone who seemingly has everything could throw it all away, these folks can be some of the most brilliant people we know in every possible way except when it comes to drinking, one they start ...all bets are off and they loose all control. For some hitting bottom is only the beginning for others it is time to stop digging, for Scot I hope it is the latter.

 

Great post it's affected probably all of us in some way and is the reason I personally don't drink runs way too deep in my family to play with that fire

 

 

 

You know bedlam age is a funny thing. Who is considered the top defensive guy this year? Calais Campbell who is over 30 doesn't stop other teams from wanting him. Age is okay with me as long as your commitment to them is short like three years tops. But age concerns are different for position, jerry rice played until he was near 40 and kept producing. 30 year old receivers are near the cliff but not over it

[PortisBetts]

14 minutes ago, MartinC said:

There is clearly something amis. When your scouting obsessed GM misses the combine that's a red flag. 

 

With his history it's easy to speculate. He lasted 4 years with the Seahawks, 5 years with the 49ers. Looks like we only got 3.

 

The thing I take issue with re the media reporting is the label of dysfunction. I don't think that's fair - either for how the team handled and his handling Cousins contract or the situation around Scot. 

If all of this is true, I think the front office handled it wonderfully. No reason to throw Scott under the bus if it is true he started drinking again. He needs help if true. The last thing SM and the team would need is the media circus this would create. Keep it in house, let him handle his business. Very happy there are no leaks. It is only dysfunction  to the media and over speculative fans who want news on the second and run with any **** story thrown against a wall. 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

6 hours ago, sebestian said:

This is bad. Just. Before free agency. OMG. it does not end with this team. Is there a dark cloud that hovers over a team that cannot get anything right. I mean anything right.

 

I think it's tougher for the Redskins because they are dysfunctional. Take McCloughan as a perfect example of this. Due to Snyder's reputation, etc. they probably had to settle for McCloughan two years ago. By settle I mean that they take a talented personnel guy with baggage. That increases the risk of it not working out. So, when it doesn't work out, we can't really be surprised. 

 

Things will turn when we buck the odds and a handful of those types of moves work out. I think they are starting to turn now though. Gruden seems like nothing worse than a solid hire and will provide continuity. If they lock up Cousins, that's another nice story - 4th round pick turned long-term starting QB. 

[DJD2]

Maybe it has nothing to do with a drinking problem and it is simply a power struggle b/w Scot and Jay that Scot has lost.

 

I can see a scenario where Jay wants Kirk on a LTD regardless of cost and Scot simply refuses to buy in.

 

Result:

An exclusive tag on Kirk

An extension for Jay

Neutered GM

Media running rampant with theories

[Mr. Sinister]

5 minutes ago, DJD2 said:

Maybe it has nothing to do with a drinking problem and it is simply a power struggle b/w Scot and Jay that Scot has lost.

 

I can see a scenario where Jay wants Kirk on a LTD regardless of cost and Scot simply refuses to buy in

 

According to the original power structure, it would not matter what Scot wanted. He did not have final say on personnel, and had nothing to do with negotiations

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

6 minutes ago, DJD2 said:

Maybe it has nothing to do with a drinking problem and it is simply a power struggle b/w Scot and Jay that Scot has lost.

 

I can see a scenario where Jay wants Kirk on a LTD regardless of cost and Scot simply refuses to buy in.

 

Result:

An exclusive tag on Kirk

An extension for Jay

Neutered GM

Media running rampant with theories

You can definitely put this kind of stuff on the table, along with all the other speculation.  Everyone is kind of running with the drinking angle, and given Scott's history, I understand why.

 

My gut tells me its a combination of things, with the primary reasons being the type you presented.  Heads butting about big decisions.

[MartinC]

5 minutes ago, DJD2 said:

Maybe it has nothing to do with a drinking problem and it is simply a power struggle b/w Scot and Jay that Scot has lost.

 

I can see a scenario where Jay wants Kirk on a LTD regardless of cost and Scot simply refuses to buy in.

 

Result:

An exclusive tag on Kirk

An extension for Jay

Neutered GM

Media running rampant with theories

The hole in that theory was it was Scot who backed Gruden over benching RGIII and going with Cousins as the starter. Without Scots backing it's unlikely Gruden would have been able to start Cousins at the beginning of the 2015 season. By all accounts Gruden and Scot have worked well together.

 

The simplest and most obvious answer is not always correct - but it's the best place to start.

[HapHaszard]

Hopefully you have read this by TK

 

[RemoveSnyder]

3 minutes ago, DJD2 said:

Maybe it has nothing to do with a drinking problem and it is simply a power struggle b/w Scot and Jay that Scot has lost.

 

I don't know why this theory keeps popping up.

 

What's the cliche people trot out during conspiracies, follow the money? It's been established that Bruce Allen holds the purse strings. If you control the money, then you ultimately control who comes and who goes (player personnel).

 

I personally have no idea what each individual guy's beliefs are on the matter, but for the most part it's been established that everyone in the FO wants Cousins and the act of offering him a long term contract last year reflects that. The only except, or yeah but, concerning the matter was the how much. 

 

Allen controls the money, so if you're upset the team didn't acquiesce to Cousins demands, didn't shell out more money, the questions as to why isn't Cousins on a long term contract should be directed at the guy holding the purse. 

 

I can tell you one thing that would infuriate me if I were a "GM," having some cheesedick lawyer mess around with a contract and not let me get the player I truly wanted, that the team truly needed. If that happened more than once and or for some player I felt strongly about, I wouldn't happy nor hide my displeasure. 

 

For all I know Allen is one **** of a back seat driver and McC just pulled a Colt Seavers by jumping from the front seat while going 80 down the highway.