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Moose & Squirrel v Boris & Natasha: what's the deal with the rooskies and trumpland?

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And sure, it’s in Russia’s best interest to break up NATO, the UN, every western democracy in the world.  Mainly because their own democracy has failed, but whatever...

 

Its our job to stop these ****ers.  THATS THE WHOLE POINT OF THE INVESTIGATION!

 

Then you Have President Trump tying to shut it down.  Literally acting against the interests of our country.

 

So who’s side are you on Cousins?  America or Russia?

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18 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

Imagine if the United States were as successful in its nation building campaigns...

 

Yeah, what do we know. Germany, Japan and South Korea are real ****shows aren’t they. Or any of the former Soviet Eastern European states like Estonia that turned towards democracy and allied with the US.

 

Care to point towards Russia’s record that is better than the US in reforming nations towards a better political and economic system?

 

Open a history textbook and stop posting. 

Edited by No Excuses
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11 minutes ago, visionary said:

Someone explain.

 

 

 

 

 

The plea deal is not operative anymore because Manafort was caught lying.  So Manafort still pled guilty, but any agreement they made with Manafort is gone.  So we are left with the sentencing guidelines.  Although the Special Counsels office says it is taking "no official postion" on what sentence Manafort should get, the rest of the memo states all the bad **** he did over his life *including after being ****ing indicted* and suggests that there are no mitigating factors that would suggest leniency.  It's saying he should get 21 years.  

Edited by PleaseBlitz
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19 minutes ago, No Excuses said:

 

Yeah, what do we know. Germany, Japan and South Korea are real ****shows aren’t they. Or any of the former Soviet Eastern European states like Estonia that turned towards democracy and allied with the US.

 

Care to point towards Russia’s record that is better than the US in reforming nations towards a better political and economic system?

 

Open a history textbook and stop posting. 

 

 

I thought it was pretty dumb of trump to bring up successes that occurred over 60 years ago. How’s our track record since then? I wouldn’t count separating the Koreas as a success...

 

we we got a do-over in Germany because we ****ed it up the first go around, unleashing the angst of the German nationals that enabled Hitler.

 

democracy is as easily corruptible as any other form of government. As we have seen.

Edited by CousinsCowgirl84

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2 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

 

 

Those happened over 60 years ago. How’s our track record since then? I wouldn’t count separating the Koreas as a success...

 

He asked you to point to Russia's record that is better than the US in reforming nations towards a better political and economic system.

 

You should probably start with Syria and the Crimea.  :809:

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33 minutes ago, DogofWar1 said:

 

I'm confused how it's not an accurate analogy.  (Almost) Everyone has an interest in adding to their wealth.

 

Or are you saying that because they basically gave a portion of the population what they wanted, that it's no longer their fault?  That because we were open to exploitation, it absolves them and places the blame fully on us?

 

Russia didn’t hack the machines, they hacked the people... they gave us information, they didn’t steal anything. They didn’t “steal” the election, they provided us with propaganda we ate up.

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10 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

 

 

Those happened over 60 years ago. How’s our track record since then? I wouldn’t count separating the Koreas as a success...

 

“Facts are getting in the way of my bogus statements so I will now cherry pick data”. Also people like you, who make baseless statements while demanding facts from others, are the worst. Why dont you show us the brilliant success of Russian intervention that led to positive nation building? Since this was your earlier ridiculous assertion.

 

Estonia and several other prospering Eastern European states for one gained their independence not too long ago and relied on Western European and US intervention to build their economies.

 

Ask again in 20-30 years about how the middle east looks. Japan, Germany and South Korea weren’t overnight success stories. 

Edited by No Excuses
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my assertion was/is that the Russian attempt to influence our elections worked. We should copy it. That’s it.

Edited by CousinsCowgirl84

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46 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

 

It’s not an accurate anology.  Russia has an interest in the outcome of our elections. They steal anything, they just fed our retarded need for useless information. That’s on us.

 

 

You didn’t read my post. Obviously. You jumped to conclusions, which is the American way, which is why Russia was so successful.

Oh I read it, nothing more than sell out bull**** pretending to be bravado.

You call for a leader with backbone while at the same time you say we shouldn't be in an adversarial stance with Russia.

Your compass is broken so badly it just spins to whichever way you're facing.

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4 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

my assertion was that the Russian attempt to influence our elections worked. That’s it.

 

Right. I mean no one would be dumb enough to post something like this when comparing Russia and the US: 

 

Imagine if the United States were as successful in its nation building campaigns...

 

or

 

The Russians are just as much a stakeholder in the Unitied States leadership as the American people are...

 

 

 

Edited by No Excuses

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1 minute ago, No Excuses said:

 

Right. I mean no one would be dumb enough to post something like this when comparing Russia and the US: 

 

Imagine if the United States were as successful in its nation building campaigns...

 

 

 

 

 

We were talking about Russia interfering with US elections I thought... not the entire geopolitical history of Russia. My bad.

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9 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

 

Russia didn’t hack the machines, they hacked the people... they gave us information, they didn’t steal anything. They didn’t “steal” the election, they provided us with propaganda we ate up.

 

They hacked private entities and stole private information and communications.  Also, the jury appears to still be out as to whether there were any attempts to influence voter rolls and registration information, as numerous systems were hacked, and tracking of actions in those systems was less than thorough.

 

But don't focus on the theft part, that's not the key point in my analogy.  The key point was that a bad actor committing a bad act should not be absolved just because it's in their interest that the bad act occur.  Nor does the fact that the victim failed to prevent the bad act mean the bad actor is absolved.

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19 minutes ago, AsburySkinsFan said:

You call for a leader with backbone while at the same time you say we shouldn't be in an adversarial stance with Russia

 

Do you think Russia can be shamed into good behavior?

 

If Putin was an American, don’t you think he would be wearing a MAGA hat?

 

I don’t want to waste a hole bunch of money on military deterrent.

 

America is not unbeatable. You have to balance the need for action against Russia (which yes, there is some need) with the bigger picture, which is China, Russia, America and a disarmed west.

 

Trump isn’t thinking about the long run and I don’t want anyone to confuse what I’m saying for support of his policies. He should have admitted Russia messed with the elections and told it to Putin’s directly.

 

My compass isn’t broken, but I think the situation is a bit more complicated that “**** Russia”... 

 

Edited by CousinsCowgirl84

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3 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

 

 

My compass isn’t broken, but I think the situation is a bit more complicated that “**** Russia”... 

 

 

It is.  You are spouting uncut Russian propaganda directly as provided via their ongoing cyberwar attack.  The best case scenario here is that your compass is broken and you just don't realize that you are doing it.  

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2 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

Newsflash: The United States actively influences elections around the world.

 

IMO, you shouldn’t be upset that Russia “attacked” the unified states by influencing the election, they are doing what is in their best interest.

 

you should be upset that our politicians are so pathetic that it worked.

 

For me, I say “Bravo Russia” it was a good move and it worked. And I don’t see the immorality in it. The Russians are just as much a stakeholder in the Unitied States leadership as the American people are...

 

So, what stance to I suggest taking? Find some leaders in the US with a real backbone.    The social media companies and us media were what allowed Russia to be so successful. Silence was what allowed Russia to be so successful.  If Mueller says collusion happened, I’ll have no reason to doubt him, but if he doesn’t dems should focus on what they control.  Dems should confront russia the Reagan way. I never said the dems were wrong to confront Russia.

 

 

This really isn't a pro-Russia post IMO. I think CC84 is trying (maybe too hard) to keep a colder perspective on what has happened. More head than heart might be the best way to describe it. It's not doing much for making friends here, but honestly I hope our intel community is taking the same lessons from it all that he is.

 

To be clear though, CC84- Putin is absolutely and verifiably against democracy, specifically the USA. You may see it as him taking his shot to dethrone the champ but it's more than that. It's personal and it's dirty. He's bitter about the way the Cold War ended. He wants to hurt us. He influenced the one process that makes any country truly free... the right to cast your vote and decide. That's something he's never wanted his people to have. He fixes his elections and he tried to fix ours. We might not be the Good Guy we claim to some countries but he's the bad guy everybody on Earth recognizes.

Edited by Chachie
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49 minutes ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

Man, this thread starting to feel like a Kirk Cousins thread. 

 

 

All I know is that Putin is clutch. He delivers in the moment. You can win a world war with him.  

 

Little Donnie needs a great defense and offensive ICBM system to carry him to the war-offs and even then, I don’t think he has what it takes to win a world war. He will always fold when it counts 

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2 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

 

Russia didn’t hack the machines, they hacked the people... they gave us information, they didn’t steal anything. They didn’t “steal” the election, they provided us with propaganda we ate up.

And they were aided by Trump's campaign manager providing them internal polling data to help them target their messaging  and were guided by Stone as to timing of releases of stolen emails.

 

Add: Plus a whole lot of communications that were initially denied, a meeting with a representative of Russia outlining what Russia would like, an alteration of the Republican platform favorable to Russia, and Trump's odd affinity to take Putin's word over his intelligence agencies. Weird!

Edited by RedskinsFan44
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If I were president, I’d have America’s top cyber security minds working for me.  ****, I’d probably add a branch of the military devoted to cyber warfare or at least create a department within a branch and stock it with highly paid specialists.

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17 minutes ago, Springfield said:

If I were president, I’d have America’s top cyber security minds working for me.  ****, I’d probably add a branch of the military devoted to cyber warfare or at least create a department within a branch and stock it with highly paid specialists.

Space Force!!

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4 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

Newsflash: The United States actively influences elections around the world.

 

Keep coming back to the dumbass comment.

 

You may well be right that our country tries to influence elections, even if I concede that we do so to the extent the Russians did in 2016...what cannot be denied is that regardless of whether Russia was trying to influence the election a certain way...an AMERICAN Presidential cadidate should NOT have co-conspired with the Russians in this effort!!

 

God damn, what is so ****ing hard to understand about that? Cousins here already admits...sorry...CHEERS Russian interference and defends Trump, at this point we're seeing nothing short of the celebrating of a Russian backed President!

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