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Moose & Squirrel v Boris & Natasha: what's the deal with the rooskies and trumpland?

Jumbo

By Jumbo
in The Tailgate

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Momma There Goes That Man

Momma There Goes That Man

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, bcl05 said:

 

That thread is awful.  One after another Trump supporter chimes in to say that Russia compromising our electoral integrity is preferable to having HRC as president.  Remember that when ever a Trump supporter claims to be patriotic.  They are deeply, profoundly anti-democratic and anti-American.   

 

Debated this again with my brothers last night and their point is basically:

 

We don't care that Russia hacked or messed with the election because

 

1. Every country hacks and interferes in our elections and has since forever plus we also do it to everybody else

 

2. It didn't change or impact the results AT ALL

 

3. It was worth it to keep Kilary from being president. 

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AsburySkinsFan

AsburySkinsFan

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

Debated this again with my brothers last night and their point is basically:

 

We don't care that Russia hacked or messed with the election because

 

1. Every country hacks and interferes in our elections and has since forever plus we also do it to everybody else

 

2. It didn't change or impact the results AT ALL

 

3. It was worth it to keep Kilary from being president. 

This is why they win, sheer blind loyalty in the face of blantant criminal activity and treason. When they are willing to swallow whatever Trump does/did in order to justify party or agenda then they are nothing more than tribalistic cult members.

No amount of truth telling will change this. No amount of facts, or proof will change their minds because they are no longer interested in such things. For them it is agenda, tribe, and narrative over truth, law, and justice.

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Bozo the kKklown

Bozo the kKklown

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, bcl05 said:

 

That thread is awful.  One after another Trump supporter chimes in to say that Russia compromising our electoral integrity is preferable to having HRC as president.  Remember that when ever a Trump supporter claims to be patriotic.  They are deeply, profoundly anti-democratic and anti-American.   

Russia is the leader of the white Christian right-wing movement. A lot of white supremacist Christians look at Russia and wonder why we cannot do that here? Everything about their support makes sense once you view it through that prism.

 

*When I say white supremacists, I mean those who think America is supposed to be a Christian nation. The Evangelicals and fundamentalists, etc.

Edited by BenningRoadSkin
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Larry

Larry

Posted
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, BRAVEONAWARPATH said:
 
 
 

 

Actually, I saw something posted, here, a week or so back, that at least raised a less sinister theory in my mind.  

 

It suggested that people close to Trump say that his problem is that his ego is such that he is incapable of admitting that he might have had illegal help.  That his win wasn't entirely his.  

 

It made me wonder if maybe he's not dirty (and covering up the dirt), but that he simply doesn't want to share the credit for his win.  And he feels that admitting Russian interference is only a short distance from "he wouldn't have won without it".  (An assumption which is not without merit.)  

 

 

7 hours ago, Rdskns2000 said:

Trump won't resign. He'd take the country down with him before that.

 

A pretty safe bet, since he already is.  

Edited by Larry
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Bozo the kKklown

Bozo the kKklown

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Larry said:

Actually, I saw something posted, here, a week or so back, that at least raised a less sinister theory in my mind.  

 

It suggested that people close to Trump say that his problem is that his ego is such that he is incapable of admitting that he might have had illegal help.  That his win wasn't entirely his.  

 

It made me wonder if maybe he's not dirty (and covering up the dirt), but that he simply doesn't want to share the credit for his win.  And he feels that admitting Russian interference is only a short distance from "he wouldn't have won without it".  (An assumption which is not without merit.)  

he cowered in front of Putin.

 

It may partly be the delusion, but I think he they have some wrap on him.

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DogofWar1

DogofWar1

Posted
Posted
27 minutes ago, Larry said:

Actually, I saw something posted, here, a week or so back, that at least raised a less sinister theory in my mind.  

 

It suggested that people close to Trump say that his problem is that his ego is such that he is incapable of admitting that he might have had illegal help.  That his win wasn't entirely his.  

 

It made me wonder if maybe he's not dirty (and covering up the dirt), but that he simply doesn't want to share the credit for his win.  And he feels that admitting Russian interference is only a short distance from "he wouldn't have won without it".  (An assumption which is not without merit.)    

 

That argument could have been at least not utterly ridiculous several revelations ago, but now (and as of several months ago at a minimum) has to ignore a truly exceptional amount of information and evidence.

 

Primarily, as Benning points out, a person who truly believes they are the instrument of their own success would not act the way Trump does with Putin.

 

Remember the secret attempt to get sanctions lifted early in his Presidency?  Or just this week with the secret meeting at the summit that literally everyone told him not to go alone?  And his subsequent actions?

 

I could go on and on and on but we all know the list.

 

His actions are not those of a man who doesn't feel beholden to Putin.  His actions are exactly that of a man who feels, and is, in some fashion, beholden to Putin.

 

_____________________________

 

Schindler coming in hot:

 

 

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PleaseBlitz

PleaseBlitz

Posted
Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, DogofWar1 said:

 

That argument could have been at least not utterly ridiculous several revelations ago, but now (and as of several months ago at a minimum) has to ignore a truly exceptional amount of information and evidence.

 

Primarily, as Benning points out, a person who truly believes they are the instrument of their own success would not act the way Trump does with Putin.

 

Remember the secret attempt to get sanctions lifted early in his Presidency?  Or just this week with the secret meeting at the summit that literally everyone told him not to go alone?  And his subsequent actions?

 

I could go on and on and on but we all know the list.

 

His actions are not those of a man who doesn't feel beholden to Putin.  His actions are exactly that of a man who feels, and is, in some fashion, beholden to Putin.

 

At this point I think Russia/Putin identified Trump as a useful idiot that they could manipulate back in 2013 when he was in Russia for Miss Universe.  Since then, they've been laying the groundwork for him to run for and win the Presidency during the next election ever since.  I think, at this point, the Russians both convinced Trump to run in the first place and were the primary reason he won both the Republican primary and the general.  I think a massive psyop by a foreign power is perhaps the most obvious answer to "how did a rich Manhattanite asshole with no experience in politics and who has enthusiastically repudiated Christianity become a cult hero to rural evangelicals?"

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PeterMP

PeterMP

Posted
Posted (edited)

I'm not saying that the Russians don't have something on Trump, but when you think about it, I'm not at all surprised how Trump acts around Putin and other dictators.


Trump is a bully.  He's going to bully other people that he can bully.  And like any bully, when he runs into a bigger bully, he turns weak.  Then especially, with respect to Putin, Trump derives his self-worth from his wealth and his power.  While nobody knows how much Putin is actually worth, it seems like he actually has a lot more money than Trump, and Putin actually does order the murder of people.

 

By the metrics Trump uses to measure success and self-worth, Putin is more successful than him.

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Lombardi's_kid_brother

Lombardi's_kid_brother

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

Russia is the leader of the white Christian right-wing movement. A lot of white supremacist Christians look at Russia and wonder why we cannot do that here? Everything about their support makes sense once you view it through that prism.

 

*When I say white supremacists, I mean those who think America is supposed to be a Christian nation. The Evangelicals and fundamentalists, etc.

 

It's slightly more than that. Putin has slowly - and things are speeding up - been ceding more and more authority to the Russian Orthodox Church. And he has has slowly - and things are speeding up - been reviving Tsarist Russian nationalism. 100,000 Russians participated in a remembrance of the Romanovs this week.

 

Putin is never going to crown himself Tsar obviously, because that would be slightly on the nose. But he is reaching the point of Tsar in all but name. And the church is backing him, to the suffering of all other religions - including all other Christian sects.

 

American white nationalists aren't smart enough to see the danger is fusing the state with the Orthodox church. From a distance, they see it as fusing the state with Christianity. A white nationalist Christian nation is what they want, and that's what they see Russia as.

 

That kind of country can ONLY exist under a strongman dictator.

 

The good news in all of this is that Trump is a fat 72 year old man who is frankly not that bright. So, I don't think he's remotely capable of pulling off this kind of movement. At the same time, I'm not sure there are really any other American politician has the personal charisma of Trump to follow him. Trumpism is - thankfully - a one man operation (at least I'm 99 percent sure that is the case).

 

The concern is that around 1/3 of the electorate would clearly follow a charismatic leader down this path. And that's more than enough to destroy a country.

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Going Commando

Going Commando

Posted
Posted

My question is if the NRA being a Russian infiltrated organization led by traitors who are cutting ISIS-style propaganda videos might negatively impact their lobbying power?  Or God forbid, get single issue gun nut voters to rethink their choices?

 

Nevermind, I know the answer is no.

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DogofWar1

DogofWar1

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, PeterMP said:

I'm not saying that the Russians don't have something on Trump, but when you think about it, I'm not at all surprised how Trump acts around Putin and other dictators.


Trump is a bully.  He's going to bully other people that he can bully.  And like any bully, when he runs into a bigger bully, he turns weak.  Then especially, with respect to Putin, Trump derives his self-worth from his wealth and his power.  While nobody knows how much Putin is actually worth, it seems like he actually has a lot more money than Trump, and Putin actually does order the murder of people.

 

By the metrics Trump uses to measure success and self-worth, Putin is more successful than him.

 

Perhaps, but again, we have to turn a blind eye to a lot of evidence right in front of us.  The Trump Tower meeting.  Trump throwing in that "other people" line after he got home the other day while deviating from prepared remarks.  Saying "no" to "is russia still hacking us" when everyone in IC agrees its yes.  Or even just waiting until a day after getting home to "correct" his "would vs. Wouldn't" thing.

 

Like, sure, could it hypothetically be another explanation?  I suppose it's not impossible.

 

But it's just so ridiculous as to be something we can almost dismiss out of hand.

 

I suppose I'll paraphrase one of the diplomats on this: "Trump is guilty or he's such a **** he should grab himself."

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Bozo the kKklown

Bozo the kKklown

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

 

It's slightly more than that. Putin has slowly - and things are speeding up - been ceding more and more authority to the Russian Orthodox Church. And he has has slowly - and things are speeding up - been reviving Tsarist Russian nationalism. 100,000 Russians participated in a remembrance of the Romanovs this week.

 

Putin is never going to crown himself Tsar obviously, because that would be slightly on the nose. But he is reaching the point of Tsar in all but name. And the church is backing him, to the suffering of all other religions - including all other Christian sects.

 

American white nationalists aren't smart enough to see the danger is fusing the state with the Orthodox church. From a distance, they see it as fusing the state with Christianity. A white nationalist Christian nation is what they want, and that's what they see Russia as.

 

That kind of country can ONLY exist under a strongman dictator.

 

The good news in all of this is that Trump is a fat 72 year old man who is frankly not that bright. So, I don't think he's remotely capable of pulling off this kind of movement. At the same time, I'm not sure there are really any other American politician has the personal charisma of Trump to follow him. Trumpism is - thankfully - a one man operation (at least I'm 99 percent sure that is the case).

 

The concern is that around 1/3 of the electorate would clearly follow a charismatic leader down this path. And that's more than enough to destroy a country.

Very true.

 

NY Mag had an article on this a few years ago:

 

 

Twitter thread on this as well:

 

 

The Right's love affair with Russia was coming, is bigger than Trump, and of course is racist as fack.

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PF Chang

PF Chang

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

 

That kind of country can ONLY exist under a strongman dictator.

 

The good news in all of this is that Trump is a fat 72 year old man who is frankly not that bright. So, I don't think he's remotely capable of pulling off this kind of movement. At the same time, I'm not sure there are really any other American politician has the personal charisma of Trump to follow him. Trumpism is - thankfully - a one man operation (at least I'm 99 percent sure that is the case).

 

The concern is that around 1/3 of the electorate would clearly follow a charismatic leader down this path. And that's more than enough to destroy a country.

 

I worry about the young Trump clones. Someone like Charlie Kirk isn't as charismatic as Trump but he's also young and doesn't look like dog****. And the message is the same. 

 

Twitter has made people like him famous. The barriers to entry for political power are falling apart - Twitter was huge for Ocasio-Cortez on the other side. It seems inevitable that there will be a young Trump clone who will basically be their version of Obama. 

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