The (only!) official ES all things Kirk Cousins should we shouldn't we off-season thread.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

18 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

If Cousins throws for 25tds and the team is below or near .500 his value will go down next year, in my opinion. 

 

Unless dislocates his shoulder on the same play where he snaps both of his Achilles, he will be the highest paid player in NFL history once he hits the open market.

 

It has nothing to do with him and simply the circumstances around him. All Pro level QBs don't hit free agency in their primes. You'll have five desperate teams tripping over each other to get to him - one or two of them may be in Los Angeles. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Califan007 said:

 

TK said the offer Sheehan and the rest keep quoting was from earlier in the year, but that the Skins came with a $23 mil/yr offer at the combine. I did notice some of the writers putting in mild disclaimers after that about not knowing when the $20 mil/yr was offered but it was the last one they knew of. No clue if TK is/was right with his info but he was direct and specific when he offered it up on here.

 

I saw that from TK from the get go.  And I don't mean to take anything away from him, love reading his inside scoops.  But I feel this about any scoop, I'd like to see someone else on it too before I 100% buy in.   I haven't see another source, yet.  Even the mighty Adam Schefter said on Friday the two sides are a mile apart money wise.

 

[XtremeFan55]

Why sign for $40 million guaranteed?  Cousins is already set to make $24 million guaranteed this year and then has the choice of being franchised again at $35 million next year or signing a LTD with another team with for at least $80 million guaranteed with some in the form of a signing bonus.

 

Cousins could pocket at least $50-60 million in next two years alone.

 

I wouldn't sign.  I would force the Redskins to pay me the FT for next two years if necessary then sign a LTD with another team.  Cousins would be maximizing his value that way.

 

Cousins could be looking at close to $180-200 million if he plays it right.  Either $44 million or $80 million if Redskins slap another FT on him....then a LTD at least $125 million for 5 years and $80 million guaranteed

 

[Momma There Goes That Man]

13 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

That belief is what drives everyone's criticism this year...if there is no legit reason to not have signed Cousins yet, then we start coming up with all sorts of wacky reasons why it hasn't happened--Snyder still loves Griffin, Snyder and Allen still hate Shanahan, McCoy is believed to be just as good, spite, jealousy, etc, etc, yadda yadda...

 

 

I just think Bruce doesn't want to pay him. That, I guess, is the "legit" reason why he isn't signed. 

[markshark84]

On ‎3‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 2:10 PM, Bang said:

 

Wait, who is this actual GM?

John Lynch is who is listed.
What has he actually done in any capacity of an NFL front office?

If you mean Martin Mayhew, he's a front office pro personnel guy, and frankly, his track record in Detroit is OK, i guess, but when you pick so high so long eventually you might win a playoff game. ..  except they haven't. (His presence does lend at least some NFL executive experience to the office.)
He had some good picks, and a bunch that are out of the league, and two first rounders that didn't stick around.. Suh and Fairley. Free agent acquisitions.. again, hasn't really translated to sustained success. In the entire period of his tenure, they were inconsistent to say the least.

So, I don't see the actual GM thing. Especially Lynch, who has no experience in an NFL front office at all, 

 

Kyle is a great offensive mind, and he hasn't got much to work with. We've seen great offensive minds and great defensive minds get bowled over by the ineptitude of their first coaching job, and some never make it back out of the coordinator/position ranks again.c Kyle might make it,, he might not.  

As far as their deals go, "difficult to fire" doesn't seem to be a concern to this owner, since he ran off Jim Harbaugh and dropped Jim Tomsula and Chip Kelly after a single season each despite being stuck on the hook for millions in salary. He has not shown much patience, and the fanbase out there have shown no patience with him. Neither has their media.. a few months ago a reporter inferred he should step down, and he told the guy the owner doesn't fire the owner.

the "Dumpster Fire" at the moment in Washington seems to be all front office based, and between 2 people. Lots of conjecture about lots of things. It ain't good, but i don't see it as totally devastating either. We still signed targeted free agents in positions of need. weren't forced to pick through garbage. Right now, i say it is a lot more media driven hysteria over a bit of bad business, but I don't think it is anywhere near the catastrophe they scream it is.
 

Coaching staff? Seems firm. Gruden extended, new defensive guys, so probable upgrade in how they play (Up is about the only direction it can go.)
Now, if Kirk gets away, then i say it's a full on dumpster fire. If Kirk gets away, I still don't think it means much for SF (assuming that is where he goes.) but it is an utter disaster for us.

 

The Redskins lost Jackson and Garcon, which is rough, but not unable to be overcome, especially given the TEs and other receivers, andif Kirk stays the QB with an OL that gives him the time he needs to throw.
They lost Baker, who for the life of me, i do not understand why people freak out about this. (Somehow a DT who's defense gives up 7 or 8 yards per rush up the middle is something we need to keep. I don't get it.)

The Redskins are making moves to shore up the defense, and have ten picks in the upcoming draft.

The 49ers are doing what the redskins used to do, trying to buy contention in free agency. In the first day, they bought every skill position on the offense, except halfback. They bought 3 WRs, 2 quarterbacks, our old TE Logan Paulsen, and a fullback.  (They have 3 guys from our old teams, and the only  one anyone should consider signing on day one might be Garcon. Aldrick Robnson on day one? Logan Paulsen? I get they know Kyle, but they weren't very good for him.) Every offensive skill position, on day one.

 

They brought back their best receiver from a year ago; Jeremy Kerley, who no matter what is never going to even sniff the ass of a second tier reciever in the NFL.

Their offensive line was nearly dead last in sacks allowed, their defense was the worst in the NFL.

You are what you are, and the 49ers are a 2-14 football team, and looked every bit of it.

 

So far Lynch and Kyle are strolling through the supermarket on a buying spree. 

How's that usually worked out, especially given the names involved?

 

Frisco is a mess. You could argue they may be trying to clean it up, but it remains to be seen if anyone there actually can, given so many of their decision makers are inexperienced.

 

~Bang

 

 

I don't think some of those arguments are sound when comparing them to the current stat of affairs with the redskins.   SF has an unproven GM --- I'd rather have an unproven one that one that has PROVEN the only thing he is capable of doing is destroying a franchise.  The SF front office situation is light years better than ours. 

 

We have dumb & dumber 2.0 running things, overpaying for free agents, and the one they didn't, Pryor, lost his market and fell to us, which makes me wonder a bit.  These two idiots just signed a reserve/semi-starter DT from Oakland --- coming from a last place, 4-3 defense, where he had 3 sacks and 44 tackles in the past 4 years COMBINED --- to a 5 year, 25M contract.  Meanwhile, they just let Baker --- our only reliable DT, who played in a 3-4, had 11.5 sacks and 166 tackles in the past 4 years ---- go where he signed a 3 year, 15.75M contract...... WTF???? I'm not even a huge Baker fan, but that is crazy dumb and indicative of dumb & dumber 2.0.

 

As far as SF running off coaches, it depends on their contracts.  Kyle has a 6 year deal, making it difficult to fire him without paying a large exit price.  And the fact they'll owe Kelly through 2019 makes that even more certain. We all know from experience what "big splash" free agent signings do for you, so it isn't advisable, but the SF acquisitions aren't really those types --- but I agree they overpaid for some, but they have more cap space and more holes.  Regardless, I get what you are saying in that regard, but those moves don't compare to anything catastrophic like the ones Snyder made in the late 90s, 2000s.

 

You say the dumpster fire is all FO based..... Yeah.  I agree.  That is the WORST place to have a dumpster fire.  They are the ones that make all the most important decisions.  As far as our coaching staff --- there have been "rumors" (sort of the like the "rumors" that always end up being true) that the top 3 defensive coordinator candidates wouldn't come here due to the uncertainty with our FO.  Seems right.

 

And if Kirk doesn't sign a LTD --- we are done.  Any momentum we had is gone.  With our free agency losses and Kirk gone --- we have the bones of a 4-12 team at best.  If you take that with our current front office situation --- we are potentially in the worst position we have been in Snyder history...... AND THAT IS SAYING SOMETHING.

 

You can't argue against SF's record last year...... and I'm not.  I am arguing against their FUTURE.  And with dumb & dumber 2.0 at the head, our future doesn't look too great.

 

[Est.1974]

53 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Even the mighty Adam Schefter said on Friday the two sides are a mile apart money wise.

 

 

I'd suggest we are miles apart money wise on guarantees, but near on average contract value per year. We could offer him 5 year 130mil but if the gtd element sucks he won't take it. Just my take.

[SlkyCaramel]

 

[ILikeBilly]

<triple post>

[ILikeBilly]

Now I have  4 posts, and my original was completely lost.  What silly update was done to this msg board.  I am getting double posts all the time now.

 

I am not going to try to re-create my post.  It was about if it is a good think to keep around a really good QB (like Romo) but, also a flawed QB that was never part of a team that won big in the playoffs. 

[hailmary]

Dan needs to sell the team and thats the final answer !

 

[Wildbunny]

2 hours ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

I just think Bruce doesn't want to pay him. That, I guess, is the "legit" reason why he isn't signed. 

Or he likes to play the waiting game.

They have until the 15th of July, so I suppose they're concentrating on other FA before committing fully to resigning Kirk.

 

As tight as Bruce may be, I hardly find any reason to not pay the guy...

[XtremeFan55]

24 minutes ago, hailmary said:

Dan needs to sell the team and thats the final answer !

 

 

Snyder won't sell but he does need to think about his legacy.  If this keeps up then his legacy will be that of one of the most hated men in Washington DC history.  Nobody will remember his wealth or the pink ribbons etc... They will remember how he singled-handedly ruined a storied NFL franchise due to his disasterous management of the team and his petty way of treating people who dare to double cross him.

 

Growing up in Buffalo....I remember the stories of how cheap Ralph Wilson was.  But Wilson finally saw the light and the team became a model of stability during those years of Marv Levy, Jim Kelly, Bruce Smith, Cornelius Bennett, Andre Reed, and Thurman Thomas.  The people in Buffalo learned to appreciate him and he left a lasting legacy of Goodwill.  The stadium in Orchard Park is still called 'The Ralph'...

 

Snyder could do that....but it means a radical change in who he is.  By that I mean....some people grow up in humble means then acquire wealth later and develop this arrogance and attitude of superiority that makes them the type of person most people hate to be around.  When Gibbs came back I was really hoping that Gibb's integrity and humility would rub off on Snyder and make him a better person which in turn could help him see his real role as not just the owner of a team but having a broader role of energizing an entire area that would be eternally grateful for his stewardship and success.

 

don't see any evidence of that yet.....

[BurgundyBooger]

2 hours ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

I just think Bruce doesn't want to pay him. That, I guess, is the "legit" reason why he isn't signed. 

 

If this were true, it would imply that Bruce assessed Kirk's worth to be considerably under the QB's asking price, and in order to come to this conclusion Bruce would need to possess enough football and talent acumen to render said opinion with any measure of authenticity. If Bruce felt he had it (or, more importantly, if Dan felt he had it), they would not have had brought in Scot. So with Bruce's shortcomings known to all, I doubt Kirk's fate will be determined solely on the merit of Bruce's judgment, therefore one of two things will happen: Kirk will sign a long-term deal soon or Bruce Allen will be relieved of his station.

[XtremeFan55]

2 hours ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

I just think Bruce doesn't want to pay him. That, I guess, is the "legit" reason why he isn't signed. 

 

I really think we need to stop giving Bruce Allen too much credit.  He is just a lackey for Dan Snyder.  That's it.  He will do whatever he can to appease his master to keep his comfortable job but the real person behind all this is Snyder.  If Snyder wanted to keep Cousins then a contract would be done.  Weak leaders hide behind their lackeys to shelter themselves from the backlash.

 

Blame Snyder for every fiasco that has happened since he became owner.

 

The firing of Scot McCloughan may have been to pin the blame on him for the team not signing Cousins when they had a chance.  But it was Snyder who made the ultimate call not to pay Cousins.

 

I would bet big bucks that Cousins will be gone if not this year but by next year.  And when Cousins leaves then Snyder will try to smear his reputation.  Problem is...Cousins is too good, clean and ethical to be tainted with any whiff of a scandal..

[TheGreatBuzz]

If Bruce just didn't want to pay Kirk, why would he even tag him?

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

If Bruce just didn't want to pay Kirk, why would he even tag him?

 

Following what has been said by those covering this -- Bruce wants to give Kirk a LTD but at less than market value.  You tag Kirk otherwise you lose him.  Kirk wants a LTD at fair market value.  Most of the pessimism from those covering the story is they don't think Bruce is posturing and that he genuinely won't meet Kirk's asking price in the end.    I guess there is no way to know what Bruce is thinking until it plays out but at the moment for me he's not off to a hot start.  I get the whole negotiations takes time drill but in this case considering all the extenuating circumstances -- I don't think Bruce is helping the cause by dragging it out.  I don't think time is our friend on this contract.  On some contracts I do think time helps.  At the start of the process on this negotiation, I thought time would help.  But it seems like more time fosters more acrimony in this case. 

[hailmary]

2 hours ago, XtremeFan55 said:

 

I really think we need to stop giving Bruce Allen too much credit.  He is just a lackey for Dan Snyder.  That's it.  He will do whatever he can to appease his master to keep his comfortable job but the real person behind all this is Snyder.  If Snyder wanted to keep Cousins then a contract would be done.  Weak leaders hide behind their lackeys to shelter themselves from the backlash.

 

Blame Snyder for every fiasco that has happened since he became owner.

 

The firing of Scot McCloughan may have been to pin the blame on him for the team not signing Cousins when they had a chance.  But it was Snyder who made the ultimate call not to pay Cousins.

 

I would bet big bucks that Cousins will be gone if not this year but by next year.  And when Cousins leaves then Snyder will try to smear his reputation.  Problem is...Cousins is too good, clean and ethical to be tainted with any whiff of a scandal..

 I agree and Snyder would rather pay a "fat" lazy thug 100 million for absolutely nothing in return, Dan needs to sell this team! Fans should demand he sells our team because he has proven he is the PROBLEM over and over. I for one will never spend another penny on this organization as long as Dan is involved!

 

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Following what has been said by those covering this -- Bruce wants to give Kirk a LTD but at less than market value.  You tag Kirk otherwise you lose him.  Kirk wants a LTD at fair market value.  Most of the pessimism from those covering the story is they don't think Bruce is posturing and that he genuinely won't meet Kirk's asking price in the end.    I guess there is no way to know what Bruce is thinking until it plays out but at the moment for me he's not off to a hot start.  I get the whole negotiations takes time drill but in this case considering all the extenuating circumstances -- I don't think Bruce is helping the cause by dragging it out.  I don't think time is our friend on this contract.  On some contracts I do think time helps.  At the start of the process on this negotiation, I thought time would help.  But it seems like more time fosters more acrimony in this case. 

 SORRY I hate to inform you danny boy is calling these shots, Bruce is just another Snyder puppet
 

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, hailmary said:

 I agree and Snyder would rather pay a "fat" lazy thug 100 million for absolutely nothing in return, Dan needs to sell this team! Fans should demand he sells our team because he has proven he is the PROBLEM over and over. I for one will never spend another penny on this organization as long as Dan is involved!

 

 SORRY I hate to inform you danny boy is calling these shots, Bruce is just another Snyder puppet
 

 

Danny and Bruce are interchangeable to me.  They likely go hand in hand.  If you want to take Bruce off the hook and put it on Danny, am cool with that.

[hailmary]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Danny and Bruce are interchangeable to me.  They likely go hand in hand.  If you want to take Bruce off the hook and put it on Danny, am cool with that.

  If they are "INTERCHANGEABLE" how can only one be blamed?

 Bottom line is danny is writing the checks and is / will always call the shots. Hence this is our organizations problem !! BTW.....Bruce is on danny's hook !

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

I would've bet any amount of money that we would ink KC to a big deal, but this thing is starting to smell a bit sour.  So...

 

If Cousins plays on the tag this year, can we transition tag him next year, let him negotiate a deal with another team, match it, and still keep him?  Maybe Bruce needs more convincing and another year could do it?  I know I'm reaching here and that if we were gonna sign him, it would make much more sense to get it done now.  

 

Either way, Bruce is seriously peeing in the pool.  KC might play on the tag this year, but the media coverage of it (the entire ****ing year) will be unbearable.  If he ain't happy, I would expect it to show up in his game.  And if he has a bad stretch, the rumors will start swirling about how he can't wait to leave town.  It's a powder keg.  Tick tock.

 

Oh, and **** you Bruce.

[Skinsinparadise]

On 106.7 just now, Eric Galko, Optimum Scouting said he talked to someone close to Kirk.   He said its simple:  his relationship has soured with management and he likes Kyle a lot.   So the contrast is clear and easy for him.

 

Chris Russell kicked in and says he talked to someone who knows Kirk and said pretty much the same thing where he doesn't get a good vibe about the organization and last week didn't help with them losing Garcon, D-Jax, and what happened with Scot.  He feels like a pawn as opposed to feeling wanted here. 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

23 minutes ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

I would've bet any amount of money that we would ink KC to a big deal, but this thing is starting to smell a bit sour.  So...

 

 

I've been trying to keep it all simple but in light of what I just heard and posted about coupled with other things that have been said, I'll add another layer to it.

 

A.  Kirk wants fair market contract

B.  Bruce isn't giving Kirk a fair market contract

 

A.  Kirk likes Kyle

B.  Kirk doesn't care much at the moment for Bruce/Dan

 

A.  Bruce/Dan seem either oblivious to Kirk not liking them at the moment or willing to risk it getting worse by dragging this out 

B.  Kirk's done with Bruce/Dan he's not interesting in their low ball offers.  He's fine going to SF, heck it even sounds like fun.

 

If so the way to turn this around maybe is to do what Cooley keeps saying they need to do -- Dan/Bruce woo Kirk like they do when they want someone.  Just go get a contract now done.  If they drag it out, Kirk might be losing interest by the day.

 

[hailmary]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

If so the clear way to turnaround is to do what Cooley keeps saying they need to do -- Dan/Bruce woo Kirk like they do when they want someone.  Just go get a contract now done.  If they drag it out, Kirk might be losing interest by the day.

 

 It looks like it's a day late and a $$$ dollar short ....lol

[Gregpeck99]

Who cares what spoiled-brat Kirk thinks or feels.

 

He ain't done that much to earn such solicitude!

 

Time to move on and take a new direction at QB.

 

 

[Morneblade]

Just now, Gregpeck99 said:

Who cares what spoiled-brat Kirk thinks or feels.

 

He ain't done that much to earn such solicitude!

 

Time to move on and take a new direction at QB.

 

 

 

Right. Get rid of the best QB we've had in 30 years. With a horrible defense. Honestly, I'm not in the mood for a complete rebuild, just because we have a FO that has idiots in it. Oh, and don't forget your meds.