Hersh Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 4 minutes ago, jschuck12001 said: What businesses would suffer if we diversified and started negotiated trade deals with other countries? This is getting off topic and I'm not sure what you are asking. You mean, in the context of if Mexico economy tanked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 What country wants to negotiate with a known welcher who stiffs his partners? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d0ublestr0ker0ll Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 5 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said: What country wants to negotiate with a known welcher who stiffs his partners? UHH?? EXCUSE ME? Let's be clear... Is that a Maltese in your avatar? I have one too. Hilarious dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSSkinz Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 13 minutes ago, Hersh said: This is getting off topic and I'm not sure what you are asking. You mean, in the context of if Mexico economy tanked? You said the USA would lose jobs and some businesses would suffer, I was curious as to what US businesses would be affected. Most bi-partisan evaluations of our trade agreement with Mexico show a net zero loss or gain for the United States, but no doubt we are helping boost their economy tremendously. I think it's obvious who is benefiting more from trade between the USA and Mexico. I will leave it at that so we don't continue the off topic discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 15 minutes ago, jschuck12001 said: You said the USA would lose jobs and some businesses would suffer, I was curious as to what US businesses would be affected. Most bi-partisan evaluations of our trade agreement with Mexico show a net zero loss or gain for the United States, but no doubt we are helping boost their economy tremendously. I think it's obvious who is benefiting more from trade between the USA and Mexico. I will leave it at that so we don't continue the off topic discussion. Who is benefiting more wasn't the point. Part of the problem with some of these macro evaluations is that real businesses get hurt. Any business that exports goods to Mexico would be hurt. I'm sure some business that import goods from Mexico would be hurt as well. If you owned a business and 50% of your business was exports to Mexico, you wouldn't be happy if their economy went down hill. $300+ Billion in exports comes from somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSilverMaC Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 4 hours ago, jschuck12001 said: You said the USA would lose jobs and some businesses would suffer, I was curious as to what US businesses would be affected. I realize you said you were going to move on from this but I figure I'd add some info to answer your question better in case you were interested. mexico is bordered by Arizona, California, New Mexico, and Texas. Those four states alone add up to just under 1/4 of the entire U.S population with over 72 million Americans. All four of those states trade heavily with Mexico with a lot of companies thriving on Mexican businesses buying products from us as well as Mexican shoppers legally crossing to buy at our stores. This article : http://tucson.com/news/local/columnists/steller/steller-we-re-too-interdependent-to-win-trade-war-with/article_cad1eeac-fbcc-53e6-8f32-3f17e228cb80.html states that my city alone sold 1$ billion U.S in goods in 2007-2008 to Mexican shoppers (the last time they tracked those numbers). Tucson is only the 33rd largest city in the country, i can only imaging what that number looks like for San Diego, L.A, Austin, San Antonio, Phoenix, Dallas, and Houston. That isn't counting companies that do business directly in Mexico or the Mexican companies that have shops or a presence in the U.S employing Americans. The better mexico does economically, the better we do generally. I like the idea of having all of our borders and coasts completely secured but I'd rather we spend the money on improving and modernizing our national power grid and trying to make it as impervious to terrorists and natural disasters as possible or fixing our crumbling highways and bridges. I don't think anyone with an I.q above 90 actually believes trump is somehow going to make mexico pay for a wall, regardless of who they voted for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 11 hours ago, d0ublestr0ker0ll said: UHH?? EXCUSE ME? Let's be clear... Is that a Maltese in your avatar? I have one too. Hilarious dogs. He doesn't pay his contractors. Do you want the U.S. to be known as not honoring its contracts? She's a coton de Tulear, the breed is from Madagascar. She's going to be five years old this month. She's lots of fun! The automotive industry is making parts and assembling cars and trucks in Mexico. Trump wants tariffs on goods imported, it could kill part of the automotive industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hailmary Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 The Clinton Foundation will pay for the wall...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 Heard some Fox People announcing that there were lots of ways to make Mexico pay for the wall. Like, say, imposing a tariff on Mexican goods. Granted, I could have sworn that tariffs were paid by the goods' purchasers. (Meaning, Americans.) But hey, same thing, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 we could add a tax to property Mexicans(and others) own here......set up our own restricted zones like they do,just tax them extra instead of forbidding ownership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 41 minutes ago, hailmary said: The Clinton Foundation will pay for the wall...... I heard they spent all the money on Chelseas wedding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 12 hours ago, jschuck12001 said: You said the USA would lose jobs and some businesses would suffer, I was curious as to what US businesses would be affected. Most bi-partisan evaluations of our trade agreement with Mexico show a net zero loss or gain for the United States, but no doubt we are helping boost their economy tremendously. I think it's obvious who is benefiting more from trade between the USA and Mexico. I will leave it at that so we don't continue the off topic discussion. The point is to keep the Mexicans out of America, right? That is the end game. If I'm wrong, please correct me. What would work better? Building a wall, or propping up their economy so that Mexicans want to stay in Mexico. Helping their government to fight corruption and clean out drug cartels, or building a wall. Not only that, but if Mexico is a half decent place then I'd bet all the other Spanish speaking Central and South Americans would rather go there instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hailmary Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 Russia did not take my vote, how about you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 3 hours ago, Springfield said: The point is to keep the Mexicans out of America, right? That is the end game. If I'm wrong, please correct me. Illegal ones yes (and from other countries), Trump and Republicans have certainly shown they like the other kind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted January 8, 2017 Author Share Posted January 8, 2017 I really don't get the obsession with a dumb pointless wall when half the illegal immigrant population came in through the airports and overstayed visas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 3 minutes ago, twa said: Illegal ones yes (and from other countries), Trump and Republicans have certainly shown they like the other kind. Ok. Improve Mexico's economy and help make it a place that people don't want to flee for economic or safety reasons. Call me naive, but I'd assume people would rather stay where they were born. Mexico is a place that no American would want to live and for good reason. Hell, the only time Americans go to Mexico is when they are on vacation. The employment options are often bleak, the security is weak. Police and their families are regularly killed, judges are murdered while out jogging. It isn't safe. No wall is going to keep people from at least trying to come here illegally, as long as Mexico is wrought with corruption and violence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted January 8, 2017 Author Share Posted January 8, 2017 1 minute ago, Springfield said: Ok. Improve Mexico's economy and help make it a place that people don't want to flee for economic or safety reasons. Call me naive, but I'd assume people would rather stay where they were born. Mexico is a place that no American would want to live and for good reason. Hell, the only time Americans go to Mexico is when they are on vacation. The employment options are often bleak, the security is weak. Police and their families are regularly killed, judges are murdered while out jogging. It isn't safe. No wall is going to keep people from at least trying to come here illegally, as long as Mexico is wrought with corruption and violence. We've done the exact opposite of this in Central America, by destabilizing governments and propping up regimes that allowed businesses to exploit poor workers. And then we complain when some of those people try to flee the horrible conditions they are subjected to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 a lot of Americans live in Mexico, retirement there and other South American countries is even popular. it is true a wall does little w/o immigration enforcement in the interior, which is planned for. Fleeing corruption and violence never changes it, it instead enables it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 8 minutes ago, twa said: a lot of Americans live in Mexico, retirement there and other South American countries is even popular. it is true a wall does little w/o immigration enforcement in the interior, which is planned for. Fleeing corruption and violence never changes it, it instead enables it. And they retire to resort communities. I still maintain that the only way to stop illegal immigration is to make it more attractive to stay at home. Similar story. Why is D.C. so transient? Because we have jobs here. People from all over the country flock to D.C. for work. Do they consider D.C. their home? No. They don't root for D.C. teams or add to D.C. culture. Transplants are the illegal immigrants of this country. I despise them like you despise illegal immigrants. Wish I could build a wall around the D.C. Metro area to keep out all these transplants who only come here to make money. Wanna keep all the opposing fans out of Fedex? Build that wall to keep transients out of D.C.! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSSkinz Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 13 hours ago, MrSilverMaC said: I realize you said you were going to move on from this but I figure I'd add some info to answer your question better in case you were interested. mexico is bordered by Arizona, California, New Mexico, and Texas. Those four states alone add up to just under 1/4 of the entire U.S population with over 72 million Americans. All four of those states trade heavily with Mexico with a lot of companies thriving on Mexican businesses buying products from us as well as Mexican shoppers legally crossing to buy at our stores. This article : http://tucson.com/news/local/columnists/steller/steller-we-re-too-interdependent-to-win-trade-war-with/article_cad1eeac-fbcc-53e6-8f32-3f17e228cb80.html states that my city alone sold 1$ billion U.S in goods in 2007-2008 to Mexican shoppers (the last time they tracked those numbers). Tucson is only the 33rd largest city in the country, i can only imaging what that number looks like for San Diego, L.A, Austin, San Antonio, Phoenix, Dallas, and Houston. That isn't counting companies that do business directly in Mexico or the Mexican companies that have shops or a presence in the U.S employing Americans. The better mexico does economically, the better we do generally. I like the idea of having all of our borders and coasts completely secured but I'd rather we spend the money on improving and modernizing our national power grid and trying to make it as impervious to terrorists and natural disasters as possible or fixing our crumbling highways and bridges. I don't think anyone with an I.q above 90 actually believes trump is somehow going to make mexico pay for a wall, regardless of who they voted for. The answer is a Google away but my point was that US exports are mostly from big corporations, the ones that liberals arent fond of. Top US Exports: The top export categories (2-digit HS) in 2015 were: machinery ($42 billion), electrical machinery ($41 billion), vehicles ($22 billion), mineral fuels ($19 billion), and plastics ($17 billion). I've been in finance for over 20 years and I'm not saying I know it all by any means but I rarely have small or mid caps who are selling product to Mexico, most small businesses I see stay away from Mexico because the corruption is too much risk for them when it comes to the logistics of shipping and getting paid. It's nice that you can get a LOC for Mexico which is something that's unheard of with China but 99% of what I see is small and mid caps dealing directly with China. We can create an agreement with anyone or several countries, we are super consumers so IMO people need us we do not need them so we should make sure the trade agreements are diverse and fair for the US. 1 hour ago, Springfield said: Ok. Improve Mexico's economy and help make it a place that people don't want to flee for economic or safety reasons. Call me naive, but I'd assume people would rather stay where they were born. Mexico is a place that no American would want to live and for good reason. Hell, the only time Americans go to Mexico is when they are on vacation. The employment options are often bleak, the security is weak. Police and their families are regularly killed, judges are murdered while out jogging. It isn't safe. No wall is going to keep people from at least trying to come here illegally, as long as Mexico is wrought with corruption and violence. I don't want to call you naive but based on facts I don't think you're right, the Mexican economy is growing fast due to the USA and its about to be the 10th largest economy. So the economy in Mexico is growing but we still have 700,000 illegals coming into the US each year and a majority are from Mexico. Closing the borders shouldn't be an attack on the Mexican people, we just can't have that many illegals flooding our country each year, I don't know why people take that so personally. I also believe a lot of the business are controlled by cartels, I can't prove it but Mexico is on record as being one of the more corrupt countries in the world and that's something you can look up, don't take my word for it. I have a bad feeling we're funding a corrupt political system that has ties to drug lords. Isn't it odd that the Mexican drug cartels have grown and become some of the the most powerful cartels while at the same time NAFTA has helped the Mexican economy grow faster than it ever would? Maybe there is no correlation but its hard to believe there isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted January 8, 2017 Author Share Posted January 8, 2017 20 minutes ago, jschuck12001 said: I don't want to call you naive but based on facts I don't think you're right, the Mexican economy is growing fast due to the USA and its about to be the 10th largest economy. So the economy in Mexico is growing but we still have 700,000 illegals coming into the US each year and a majority are from Mexico. Illegal immigration has also been on a steady decline so maybe he isn't that naive after all. And there is fairly good evidence to back up the notion that improving conditions in Mexico leads to fewer illegal immigrants coming to the US: Quote The other huge factor is Mexico, where a declining birth rate and an improving economy likely have contributed to a drop in the Mexican-born population of undocumented immigrants living in the U.S. by 600,000 since 2010, according to Warren’s study. “The longterm trends in Mexico are driving a lot of this story,” said Randy Capps, director of research at the Migration Policy Institute. A combination of fewer Mexicans entering the workforce and more jobs available at home limits the incentive to venture north. The government has reported that the number of apprehensions along the border has recently dropped to the lowest level in three or four decades. “The flow across the southern border is far, far smaller than it was in previous years” Jawetz said. http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/01/why-is-the-undocumented-immigrant-population-dropping/426612/ In fact, there seems to be a decline in the number of Mexican illegal immigrants and an increase in illegal migrants from Central American countries who are struggling. Quote While the number of undocumented immigrants from Mexico decreased by 7 percent between 2010 and 2014, the number from Central America rose by 5 percent, Warren found. And his study does not account for a second wave of Central American migrants reported by the federal government in late 2015, which contributed to the Obama administration’s decision to step up its efforts to capture families who had not been granted asylum. So, who is naive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSSkinz Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 13 minutes ago, No Excuses said: Illegal immigration has also been on a steady decline so maybe he isn't that naive after all. And there is fairly good evidence to back up the notion that improving conditions in Mexico leads to fewer illegal immigrants coming to the US: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/01/why-is-the-undocumented-immigrant-population-dropping/426612/ In fact, there seems to be a decline in the number of Mexican illegal immigrants and an increase in illegal migrants from Central American countries who are struggling. So, who is naive? 1 " I don't want to call you naive but based on facts I don't think you're right " No need to be a douche bag, I didn't call him naive because I didn't want to be confrontational but you're obviously looking for a fight. I could come back on everything you posted but it would be worthless, a small reduction doesn't mean there isn't a problem, the numbers are large so thank god there's been a 7% decrease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 1 hour ago, Springfield said: And they retire to resort communities. I still maintain that the only way to stop illegal immigration is to make it more attractive to stay at home. Similar story. Why is D.C. so transient? Because we have jobs here. People from all over the country flock to D.C. for work. Do they consider D.C. their home? No. They don't root for D.C. teams or add to D.C. culture. Transplants are the illegal immigrants of this country. I despise them like you despise illegal immigrants. Wish I could build a wall around the D.C. Metro area to keep out all these transplants who only come here to make money. Wanna keep all the opposing fans out of Fedex? Build that wall to keep transients out of D.C.! So mexico is like Florida there is more than one way to make it more attractive to stay home or go elsewhere....the jobs is a good starting point. Maybe we can do something about DC as well, and make it more attractive in other states Plenty of folk flocking down here for work as well....I don't despise them or illegals. I do some of the enablers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 9 hours ago, twa said: we could add a tax to property Mexicans(and others) own here......set up our own restricted zones like they do,just tax them extra instead of forbidding ownership. Now there's a really American idea! A special tax, on only certain people. Should go well with our special database of only certain religions. Make America Great, indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 we have plenty of special taxes already....or was that a fine? no matter, greater good right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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