crabbypatty Posted December 21, 2016 Author Share Posted December 21, 2016 20 minutes ago, kleese said: This is the same BS that BMitch always spews. Doc says similar things. Many ex players do. They trot out the they aren't tough enough/fiery enough stuff whenever things go south. They need "fire breathers" or "junkyard dogs." Well, when BMitch was playing was he one of those guys? If so why didn't he breathe more fire when we went 4-12 in 1993 or 3-13 in 1994. Maybe he should have screamed louder when we went 6-10 in 1995 or when we choked down the stretch in 1996 and 1997. Or maybe he could have thrown some chairs when we started 0-7 in 1998? This is a tired take. I think the bigger point is guys actually giving a **** to go that extra mile on the field because they're fiery competitors. You look at Norman for example, the guy is loud and will punch you in the mouth, and backs it up with his play. He obviously CARES what happens and brings it every single play. You point out one other guy who looks like he actually gives a **** when something goes wrong. There are maybe a couple, Reed, Williams, come to mind. Norman takes it personally when someone makes a catch or score anywhere near him. Not many of the other players do it seems like. He goes 100% all the time, and when Bmitch was playing he did the same. I don't think it's "tired" at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 4 minutes ago, tshile said: You're right. There was nothing else different about 90-92 and 93-98. Clearly. I think that's his point, though...that "the notion that you just need a bunch of guys to yell and scream and be "fiery" is nonsense"...which, from all appearances is the basis of Mitchell and Portis' comments. They didn't appear to go into anything else being needed for the 2016 Redskins other than "meanness". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 2 minutes ago, kleese said: Funny though how we associate the "nasty" guy with someone who is also possibly the best player at his position in the league... I get the impression that Will Compton plays very hard and is a tough competitor-- yet he just isn't very good and probably needs to be replaced. Donte Whittner had always had the rep as one of the "tougher" guys in the league-- he probably still is- but he just isn't good. Maybe other guys we complain about are also "tough" and trying their hardest and willing to scrap, but just aren't very good? I think with Trent the "nasty" part of it is more with his run blocking. Either way, I still don't think the two are mutually exclusive. But yes, we do have limited talent in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kleese Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Just now, Califan007 said: I think that's his point, though...that "the notion that you just need a bunch of guys to yell and scream and be "fiery" is nonsense"...which, from all appearances is the basis of Mitchell and Portis' comments. They didn't appear to go into anything else being needed for the 2016 Redskins other than "meanness". Exactly, whenever CP or BMitch analyze the team ALL they talk about is toughness, mentality, being nasty, etc... Of course there were differences from the early 90s to the mid 90s. THAT'S my point-- the Redskins didn't get "softer" they just got worse. Way, way worse. Right now, all in all, we have a roster that is incomplete. Really good in certain areas, bad in others, average in others. Evens out to be a fairly average roster that is a work in progress. Our results seem to reflect the roster we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 8 minutes ago, Califan007 said: I think that's his point, though...that "the notion that you just need a bunch of guys to yell and scream and be "fiery" is nonsense"...which, from all appearances is the basis of Mitchell and Portis' comments. They didn't appear to go into anything else being needed for the 2016 Redskins other than "meanness". The players said it was missing. Or, more specifically, that there aren't enough guys like that on the team. and that there are too many that are the opposite of that, and/or just don't care, and/or are atheletes not "football players" I don't think any of them said that's the only problem. I listen to them all often enough to know that they are aware that there are other problems. The writer wrote an article about former players calling out their toughness/meanness. You're surprised it didn't include all of those players other critiques of the team? Cooley hosts a 4 hour radio show 5 days a week. Mitchell hosts a 3 hour radio show 5 days a week. Cooley does the game call. Portis does the post game show. And they all have spots on various other shows during the week/weekend on CSN and local TV channels. You think their only analysis of the team is that they don't have enough mean guys? Common... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s0crates Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 This team has some problems obviously, but I wouldn't say they lack heart. My impression of the current Redskins team is that they're scrappy, they will fight to the end. All these crazy fourth quarter battles and comebacks we've seen over the past two years are a testament to that. Remember Kirk Cousins screaming "you like that"? Remember Trent Williams getting in Sherman's face? Didn't Reed get ejected for throwing a punch? Aren't Garcon and Scherff known for their intensity? Aren't Norman and Jackson known for their swagger? This is ex-player talk after a loss from CP and Cooley, and I get it, but the idea this team lacks the "mean streak" just doesn't sound right to me. They've plenty of heart, what they lack is talent at a few key spots on defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattlesnake88 Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 It's a culture and it's a real thing. If you've ever been part of a team of winners you know that there is almost a mean spirited obsession with winning that creates a culture and Comradary in itself."need more assholes", "roughriders", Call it what you want but I believe our offense has some fire. But the defense lacks that. Guys like sua cravens and Josh Norman fit the mold. We need more nasty atheletes. 100% agree Larry bird, tom Brady, micheal Jordan. All are mean as heck and want to dominate your face off in competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 49 minutes ago, kleese said: This is the same BS that BMitch always spews. Doc says similar things. Many ex players do. They trot out the they aren't tough enough/fiery enough stuff whenever things go south. They need "fire breathers" or "junkyard dogs." Well, when BMitch was playing was he one of those guys? If so why didn't he breathe more fire when we went 4-12 in 1993 or 3-13 in 1994. Maybe he should have screamed louder when we went 6-10 in 1995 or when we choked down the stretch in 1996 and 1997. Or maybe he could have thrown some chairs when we started 0-7 in 1998? This is a tired take. Angry man rants. The more popular you are the better it works. Nobody cares, and everyone is soft. Brilliant analysis. I love those guys, but that is Doc and B Mitch's sstance after every bad loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kleese Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 20 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said: Angry man rants. The more popular you are the better it works. Nobody cares, and everyone is soft. Brilliant analysis. I love those guys, but that is Doc and B Mitch's sstance after every bad loss. Yep.. and like I will keep saying... Donte Whitner has always had a rep as a "mean" guy.. a tough, fiery guy. Why doesn't he get mentioned along with Williams and Norman? Is it because he isn't as mean or tough or is it because he just sucks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wit33 Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 20 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said: Angry man rants. The more popular you are the better it works. Nobody cares, and everyone is soft. Brilliant analysis. I love those guys, but that is Doc and B Mitch's sstance after every bad loss. In football, sometimes it's as easy that. The trenches were dominated by the Panthers on both sides of the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss_Hogg Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 I think the players and coaches do care about winning and the team. They just suck at football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilco_holland Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 I'm on the good side on and off the field and I needed some bad boys as teammates to push me. I'm always have a calm state of mind but sometimes you need to be set on fire to just give something extra. It can be a passioned angry speech or some plays that are on the edge. But the Bengals know you can not have a team of does guys because then you get emotional dirty team. It's a balance thing. You need some guys who always stay cold and focused, guys who can keep the emotional high energy guys in check. You need some emotional high energy dogs on the team to pump up the hole team and to show fighting spirit. The hot guys don't get overcooked because of the cold guys. The cold guys don't freeze because the hot guys. (You guys probally gonna make fun of my "hot guys" term) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattlesnake88 Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 1 minute ago, wilco_holland said: I'm on the good side on and off the field and I needed some bad boys as teammates to push me. I'm always have a calm state of mind but sometimes you need to be set on fire to just give something extra. It can be a passioned angry speech or some plays that are on the edge. But the Bengals know you can not have a team of does guys because then you get emotional dirty team. It's a balance thing. You need some guys who always stay cold and focused, guys who can keep the emotional high energy guys in check. You need some emotional high energy dogs on the team to pump up the hole team and to show fighting spirit. The hot guys don't get overcooked because of the cold guys. The cold guys don't freeze because the hot guys. Good point here. I think we have a decent mix of both on offense. Trent and garçon being the fire and cousins and crowder being the yin to the yang. I think we were all just dissapointed to see a lack of fire on Monday. Though Jordan Reed throws a solid straight right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kleese Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 6 minutes ago, wit33 said: In football, sometimes it's as easy that. The trenches were dominated by the Panthers on both sides of the ball. I'd actually argue it's RARELY as simple as that. I'm not arguing that we didn't get dominated-- we did. We got pushed around for sure. But I don't think that is always because they tried harder and were tougher. Sometimes you get outcoached or the guy across from you is simply better. In this game, our QB who has been on point all season was off-- a lot of the plays we normally make, we failed to make which in turn makes the offense look stagnant and sloppy. Defense we lack talent in the middle and continually get exposed there. I think Spaight tried as hard as he could, but did not have a strong game at all. Sure, sometimes I've seen a game/team that I think lays down or doesn't play with any energy. I have not seen that from the 2015/2016 Redskins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Acre Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 2 hours ago, superozman said: On offense, Kirk is a nice guy with his moments. Our RB's aren't vocal to demand the ball, our lineman seem to like pass blocking more than run blocking. That's why I love Joey T. Fiery leader. Love the Gibbs Mark I Skins in general. Riggo told Gibbs to give him the damn ball. Gary Clark wore his personality on his sleeve and probably pissed Gibbs off a lot. All the Hogs were in your face. Yeah, Monk was the strong, silent type, but he's an HOF and you need a couple of S/S types. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
50yrSKINSfan Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Just now, wit33 said: In football, sometimes it's as easy that. The trenches were dominated by the Panthers on both sides of the ball. Best post on the thread. Bravo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazel-Ra Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Anecdotal evidence at best, but what has Cincinnati gained from all their fire breathers besides fines, suspensions, and a bad reputation. i don't think that's the answer in Goodell's NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purbeast Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 2 hours ago, mistertim said: Yeah I don't think they were necessarily saying you need guys who are just personally jerks or assholes or whatever. More like guys who are just nasty on the field and play mean and go out there wanting to absolutely destroy everyone they see with a different jersey. That's how Trent is. He doesn't seem like a bad dude off the field but on the field he is just MEAN and is out to kill you. You can tell those guys, no matter the position. I really don't see us having many of those guys. That sort of nastiness and emotional involvement translates to effort. Yes you obviously still have to have guys who have their technique and are smart and know football. But the two aren't mutually exclusive. I think my favorite "nasty" Trent moment is when he punched Richard Sherman after the game. I absolutely LOVE that he did that. Sherman thought he could talk all that trash and Trent wouldn't do anything, she he told Trent to punch him in the face and he did just that. Then Sherman acts all victimized by putting his hands up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kost203 Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Either these players have heart or don't. God gave you a gift, and that's it. But what makes players special is the will to not give up and not settle for failure. I see allot of talent players on this team that have gifts but just don't care or put that effort. Example, breeland slips on a play and then just jobs to catch up to a panther reciver! Man o man! I was at my friends restaurant and was screaming get up you bleep bleep!!!! No heart!!! I believe that is what the guys are trying to say! They don't wanna put in the extra effort and that I'm gonna do something today and own someone! Not be someone's b****!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purbeast Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 1 minute ago, kost203 said: Either these players have heart or don't. God gave you a gift, and that's it. But what makes players special is the will to not give up and not settle for failure. I see allot of talent players on this team that have gifts but just don't care or put that effort. Example, breeland slips on a play and then just jobs to catch up to a panther reciver! Man o man! I was at my friends restaurant and was screaming get up you bleep bleep!!!! No heart!!! I believe that is what the guys are trying to say! They don't wanna put in the extra effort and that I'm gonna do something today and own someone! Not be someone's b****!!! I don't like how I don't see anyone pissed off while they are getting their asses handed to them other than probably Garcon. I want people to be flipping tables of gatorade on the sideline after they let Kirk get sacked on 1st down after half time. I want people to be LIVID! But they aren't and THAT bothers me. People crap on Brady a lot for calling him a cry baby pouting on the sidelines, but I personally love that he has that fire and gets pissed off at himself and other people when they screw up or drop passes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kost203 Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Just now, purbeast said: I don't like how I don't see anyone pissed off while they are getting their asses handed to them other than probably Garcon. I want people to be flipping tables of gatorade on the sideline after they let Kirk get sacked on 1st down after half time. I want people to be LIVID! But they aren't and THAT bothers me. People crap on Brady a lot for calling him a cry baby pouting on the sidelines, but I personally love that he has that fire and gets pissed off at himself and other people when they screw up or drop passes. Man you see what I'm seeing! I'm competative as hell and that's how I was raised. And you can see it when someone is just laxed! These guys are bums! People who call Brady that don't understand his drive! I hear it all the time here in ny and trust me he's so driven to the point that he won't even eat cherries or strawberries due to keeping his body in top shape! That's how driven he is!!! Forward thinking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 4 minutes ago, purbeast said: I don't like how I don't see anyone pissed off while they are getting their asses handed to them other than probably Garcon. I want people to be flipping tables of gatorade on the sideline after they let Kirk get sacked on 1st down after half time. I want people to be LIVID! But they aren't and THAT bothers me. People crap on Brady a lot for calling him a cry baby pouting on the sidelines, but I personally love that he has that fire and gets pissed off at himself and other people when they screw up or drop passes. Brady is a crybaby for other reasons lol. But that to me is different than the passion and drive he shows, which is legit and which I like. Same thing with Dez. You can tell that dude is passionate and has fire. Garcon is the only receiver we have that is close to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommDownMan Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 You know what else benefits from being aggressive and an asshole? Media trying to attract viewers. Not that I entirely disagree that the teams need a level of mental toughness. This just seems like a look at me, beat them after a bad game piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Our best teams in franchise history were led by some pretty docile personalities: Joe Gibbs looked physically sick on the sideline half the time I'm not even sure Art Monk ever spoke between 1pm and 4pm on Sundays Charles Mann sounds like a Biology professor when he talks Darrell Green smiled throughout every game. Joe Theismann? John Riggins? Mark Rypien? Doug Williams? Earnest Byner? Do any of those guys seem like junkyard dogs to you? Not to mention we had little nicknames including "The Fun Bunch" and "The Smurfs" which I'm sure intimidated the Hell out of opponents...hahaha. We had some crazies on those teams (Wilbur Marshall, Dexter Manley, Dave Butz, Gary Clark) but the idea that you can't be both refined and an incredible/intense football player is stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSSkinz Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 I dont blame anyone for being angry, that was one of the most soul crushing games in years. My level of Butt Hurtness was 15 out of 10. Losing a game or having a bad game is one thing, laying an egg and embarrassing your fans on the national spotlight is another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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